game discussion thread GDT: Devils at Sabres 11/16/11 7:30PM

[HopefulFuture]

The post game reaction to this game was shockingly dark. It seems a number of people are ready to trade Roy, Weber, Sekera, MAG, and Leo... Myers name was brought up too. I guess it is my biased or something but I thought that last nights game was far better than the montreal game. The sabres were more aggressive and the reason they lost was Enroth was off and Brodeur was on. Maybe in some ways this loss was hard to take. The only thing that continues to stand out for me is the inability of a sabres player to take a one timer. It is always 2-4 touches before a shot. For the love of god on the PP just rip it. I saw more from that team last night than I did in the Montreal or Boston game so I actually have no desire right now to explode the roster...

 

(side note: Stastny would be a player that could help this team, just saying and thats all)

I don't disagree with much of this, but, I will point out that the Sabres forwards had 4 to 6 very good chances that Brodeur never even touched. Unfortunately, the Sabres forwards never touched the puck either.

It is a recurring theme with the top 2 to 3 lines on this team, failure to finish.

 

And although they did show up for a portion of this game, the same MO comes out game after game now, a complete lack of desire for the first 10 minutes of the game, and it cost them yet again.

 

These 2 things combined with the already pointed out horrible defensive play are the staples currently killing this team game in and game out.

 

What are the reasons behind this?

Well, chemistry is definitely an issue here, both on the defensive pairings as well as the forward ranks. This far into the season and no progress at all. Not a good sign. You shouldn't have to wait until game 41 to figure it out, that tells me, in any event, changes are needed, and quickly if you want to make any type of noise in the playoffs.

 

How do you address that a quarter of the way into the season?

Trades, it's that simple. No one is advocating "blowing it up" or "exploding the roster". But, in the end, they need to move 2 or 3 pieces out and bring 2 or 3 pieces back in to try and stabilize the situation to some extent. Patience is fantastic, it keeps the blood pressure low, but it won't change the outcome of this roster come March. We have the past to look at for evidence of this.

A submit a shake up is needed. Does that mean go out and grab Malkin in a trade? No, of course not.

What it does mean is going out and getting a couple of pieces that will help the rest of the roster, namely a center and a stay at home defenseman.

That may and I stress may, help the team both short term and in the long run.

 

Pegula and Black have stated they want the Buffalo Sabres to be known as the Hockey Heaven organization.

The players need to work hard if they wish to pass by Saint Terry and enter the gates. Once they are here, if they aren't Heaven material, they need to be moved out. And there are a number of players on this current team, that could be moved out now in my opinion.

[waldo]

I don't disagree with much of this, but, I will point out that the Sabres forwards had 4 to 6 very good chances that Brodeur never even touched. Unfortunately, the Sabres forwards never touched the puck either.

It is a recurring theme with the top 2 to 3 lines on this team, failure to finish.

 

And although they did show up for a portion of this game, the same MO comes out game after game now, a complete lack of desire for the first 10 minutes of the game, and it cost them yet again.

 

These 2 things combined with the already pointed out horrible defensive play are the staples currently killing this team game in and game out.

 

What are the reasons behind this?

Well, chemistry is definitely an issue here, both on the defensive pairings as well as the forward ranks. This far into the season and no progress at all. Not a good sign. You shouldn't have to wait until game 41 to figure it out, that tells me, in any event, changes are needed, and quickly if you want to make any type of noise in the playoffs.

 

How do you address that a quarter of the way into the season?

Trades, it's that simple. No one is advocating "blowing it up" or "exploding the roster". But, in the end, they need to move 2 or 3 pieces out and bring 2 or 3 pieces back in to try and stabilize the situation to some extent. Patience is fantastic, it keeps the blood pressure low, but it won't change the outcome of this roster come March. We have the past to look at for evidence of this.

A submit a shake up is needed. Does that mean go out and grab Malkin in a trade? No, of course not.

What it does mean is going out and getting a couple of pieces that will help the rest of the roster, namely a center and a stay at home defenseman.

That may and I stress may, help the team both short term and in the long run.

 

Pegula and Black have stated they want the Buffalo Sabres to be known as the Hockey Heaven organization.

The players need to work hard if they wish to pass by Saint Terry and enter the gates. Once they are here, if they aren't Heaven material, they need to be moved out. And there are a number of players on this current team, that could be moved out now in my opinion.

 

Praise jesus!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HopefulFuture]

Praise jesus!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you, Thank you.

I do Sundays as well :thumbsup:

[inkman]

MAG is better than Weber. Is he tougher,.. probably not, but he has way more upside.

So you only like offensive defensemen?

[Weave]

Roy rarely plays with Pommer (PP aside.) Vanek, yes, but not Pommer. Lindy has tried the combination of the three a few times before, but never kept it together for very long (this one and a half game stretch is getting long compared to previous ones.) Stafford has been Roy's winger far more often, while Pommer has played more with Hecht and (when Healthy) Connolly. I wish there were a site that tracked who played with whom so that I could prove this with hard numbers.

 

No hard numbers but I got yer back. this is what I remember as well.

[Samson's Flow]

So you only like offensive defensemen?

I for one like defensemen that actually play defense. But you all knew that already...

[SwampD]

So you only like offensive defensemen?

Leaving the offensive side of the game out of it, right now MAG is better. He has had better body positioning, he's been winning one on one battles on the boards, unlike the rest of the D that looks like they are playing broomball, he hasn't been leaving the backside wing uncovered, and he's been making better decisions with the puck to get it out of our zone.

 

They all use their sticks instead of their bodies (except Regehr), which drives me nuts because it looks coached, so you can't really say that Weber's been a defensive defenseman.

[SarasotaSabre]

The defensive play of this team is just horrible at times.

 

Forwards unable to finish when opportunities present themselves, but this has been a reccurring theme for this team for a number of years now.

 

Lack of a sustainable forecheck leading to odd man rushes or worse yet, the opponent sustains a visible, aggressive forecheck on the Sabres, forcing pressure, which in turn creates panick amongst the puck carriers of the Sabres.

Once again, a recurring them with this team for a number of years now.

 

Something needs to change here, not being able to get 2 lines to sustain much of anything on a consistent level tells me, in any event, that this team is much farther from a Cup run than many of us believe.

 

Changes need to be made here, it's almost a quarter of a season, we should feel very very fortunate the teams record is what it is because quite honestly, I cannot see them sustaining that win/loss ratio throughout the season.....and forget the playoffs.

 

OK, so you define the problems as you see them, fine....I was always taught. however, if you are going to complain about a problem, then you should be ready to suggest a solution - what "changes" need to be made, in your estimation?

[Eleven]

 

Three games and counting where the opposing team knock the Sabres goalie down with no response.

 

What are you talking about? There was plenty of response; the Devils simply didn't want to fight.

[darksabre]

Leaving the offensive side of the game out of it, right now MAG is better. He has had better body positioning, he's been winning one on one battles on the boards, unlike the rest of the D that looks like they are playing broomball, he hasn't been leaving the backside wing uncovered, and he's been making better decisions with the puck to get it out of our zone.

 

They all use their sticks instead of their bodies (except Regehr), which drives me nuts because it looks coached, so you can't really say that Weber's been a defensive defenseman.

 

Just to pick on MAG though, he's had more time to settle in than Weber. Give Weber a few straight starts and he'll get his groove back.

[SwampD]

Just to pick on MAG though, he's had more time to settle in than Weber. Give Weber a few straight starts and he'll get his groove back.

True, but I never agreed with all the fury to remove MAG for weber since the beginning of season anyway.

[Sabre Dance]

A lot of gloom and doom but in the end it was just a November loss. Move on.

 

Remember this when the Sabres are two points out of a playoff spot in the Spring. All the games count; that's why they play them. And it is not the loss that bothers me; it's the lack of passion, dearth of scoring chances, and absence of defense.

 

I think ultimately, Lindy is dealing with a lot of new pieces in the puzzle. He's still working on putting it together. Putting Leino in at center in March would be bad, but trying it out once in a while in the early season? Why not? Everyone is all over Roy today, but last game he was acclaimed on this forum as the first star. What a bunch of sourpusses.

 

With all of the new pieces, why does this look like the same team that struggled all of last season?

 

I think Lindy tried too many things tonight. I think the team was not ready for the new look Devils. I think Enroth is human after all. I think the Sabres have a mental block about playing at home. I think all the problems will be corrected as the season rolls on.

 

When things aren't working as they are, you gotta try something different. The new-look Devils were certainly ready for the semi-new-look Sabres (and with a rookie coach). Enroth wasn't the problem last night. You still have to play half of your games at home - whatever the "block" is, they better get over it. Lastly, I hope you're right 'cause otherwise T-Pegs dream looks like it is getting farther away, not closer.

[Sabre Dance]

Another less than inspiring home effort, their inability to handle the pressure of regular season home games is not a good sign.

 

My far the worst performance of Enroth's young career. Interested in how he comes back from this.

 

Tyler Myers gets benched partially for lack of aggression and comes back with only one hit. It was a solid hit, he needs to do it far more often.

 

The Sabres have to be able to do better than Leopold.

 

Three games years and counting where the opposing team knock the Sabres goalie down with no response.

 

Fixed.

[HopefulFuture]

OK, so you define the problems as you see them, fine....I was always taught. however, if you are going to complain about a problem, then you should be ready to suggest a solution - what "changes" need to be made, in your estimation?

I would like to see a shake up, both in the defensive ranks and the forwards.

For instance, I would like to see Regier aggressively go after a defenseman who is known to clamp down on opponents, especially in corners and along the boards, say, Barret Jackman from St. Louis, a team with a new coach that may be looking to bolster the wing with their team, or perhaps a younger puck moving D man.

 

The point is, I would like Regier to move the assets this team has to bring in something that could be a better fit.

Obviously center comes to mind as well. I would be looking at players such as Vermette in Columbus, where they have decent center depth but lack wing depth.

 

These are merely examples of course, and not specified as my choices for the team, but it does draw the picture of what I'd like to see, as a fan. The organization not merely making changes for the sake of changes, but actually attempting to address, on a serious nature, the shortcomings of what I feel are some of the issues with the current roster.

 

Will it work? Who knows, it's all a crap shoot, but I can't see continuing the current course of futility for any reason. They have the means to address the situation in assets, why not attempt to address it.

[Samson's Flow]

 

With all of the new pieces, why does this look like the same team that struggled all of last season?

 

Because the new pieces that were brought in are the same mold as last year's team.

 

Leino = Roy, Ennis, Connolly etc.

 

Ehrhoff = Sekera, MAG, Leopold etc.

 

The only real change is from Regher, but one player makes not a tough team.

[HopefulFuture]

Because the new pieces that were brought in are the same mold as last year's team.

 

Leino = Roy, Ennis, Connolly etc.

 

Ehrhoff = Sekera, MAG, Leopold etc.

 

The only real change is from Regher, but one player makes not a tough team.

Very true.

[Eleven]

Because the new pieces that were brought in are the same mold as last year's team.

 

Leino = Roy, Ennis, Connolly etc.

 

Ehrhoff = Sekera, MAG, Leopold etc.

 

The only real change is from Regher, but one player makes not a tough team.

 

It is not possible for anyone to be equal to Roy and Connolly at the same time.

[SarasotaSabre]

I would like to see a shake up, both in the defensive ranks and the forwards.

For instance, I would like to see Regier aggressively go after a defenseman who is known to clamp down on opponents, especially in corners and along the boards, say, Barret Jackman from St. Louis, a team with a new coach that may be looking to bolster the wing with their team, or perhaps a younger puck moving D man.

 

The point is, I would like Regier to move the assets this team has to bring in something that could be a better fit.

Obviously center comes to mind as well. I would be looking at players such as Vermette in Columbus, where they have decent center depth but lack wing depth.

 

These are merely examples of course, and not specified as my choices for the team, but it does draw the picture of what I'd like to see, as a fan. The organization not merely making changes for the sake of changes, but actually attempting to address, on a serious nature, the shortcomings of what I feel are some of the issues with the current roster.

 

Will it work? Who knows, it's all a crap shoot, but I can't see continuing the current course of futility for any reason. They have the means to address the situation in assets, why not attempt to address it.

 

Thanks for the ideas - these are great thoughts and I'd like to see T Pegs give DR the green light to make move (s) earlier in the season as opposed to trade deadline subpar rentals. Moreso than the any potential trades, such deals would show the league and our fanbase that management/ownership clearly identifies & executes on known deficiencies.

[Samson's Flow]

It is not possible for anyone to be equal to Roy and Connolly at the same time.

I wasn't meaning that they were the same production wise, just that they play a similar game. Would you agree that Roy and Connolly both play a similar game style?

[Eleven]

I wasn't meaning that they were the same production wise, just that they play a similar game. Would you agree that Roy and Connolly both play a similar game style?

 

I wouldn't. For example, while they both go down a lot, Roy usually gets up under his own power. More seriously, I think Roy is a better stickhandler in traffic (his ability has reached a nearly incredible level this year as demonstrated against Winnipeg and Montreal) and has a better nose for the puck. And Roy outworks Connolly, bigtime. If a puck is within 3 feet of Roy, he'll go after it. Connolly would just let it pass him by; you know, it's a lot of effort to reach with that stick.

[nfreeman]

I wouldn't. For example, while they both go down a lot, Roy usually gets up under his own power. More seriously, I think Roy is a better stickhandler in traffic (his ability has reached a nearly incredible level this year as demonstrated against Winnipeg and Montreal) and has a better nose for the puck. And Roy outworks Connolly, bigtime. If a puck is within 3 feet of Roy, he'll go after it. Connolly would just let it pass him by; you know, it's a lot of effort to reach with that stick.

I agree that Roy has a better nose for the puck. However, I don't think Roy outworks TC and I think TC plays a much more responsible 2-way game.

 

This is not to say the Sabres should've kept TC -- it's just me taking another shot at Roy.

[Samson's Flow]

I wouldn't. For example, while they both go down a lot, Roy usually gets up under his own power. More seriously, I think Roy is a better stickhandler in traffic (his ability has reached a nearly incredible level this year as demonstrated against Winnipeg and Montreal) and has a better nose for the puck. And Roy outworks Connolly, bigtime. If a puck is within 3 feet of Roy, he'll go after it. Connolly would just let it pass him by; you know, it's a lot of effort to reach with that stick.

Good points. I still think you are misinterpreting my intent (or maybe I explained the premise poorly).

 

The original post in question was in response to another poster asserting that despite all the changes, the team has the same flaws and seems very similar to last year's team. I stated that the new additions of Leino and Ehrhoff are in the same mold as all DR pickups (finesse, skill over physicality, undersized). I then pointed at Roy, Ennis and Connolly as similar DR style players that play skilled, finesse type games.

 

My assertion is that nothing will ever change with this team if we keep replacing departed free agents with players with similar skill sets and physicality.

[LabattBlue]

This is not to say the Sabres should've kept TC -- it's just me taking another shot at Roy.

We all have our whipping boys. :D

[nfreeman]

Good points. I still think you are misinterpreting my intent (or maybe I explained the premise poorly).

 

The original post in question was in response to another poster asserting that despite all the changes, the team has the same flaws and seems very similar to last year's team. I stated that the new additions of Leino and Ehrhoff are in the same mold as all DR pickups (finesse, skill over physicality, undersized). I then pointed at Roy, Ennis and Connolly as similar DR style players that play skilled, finesse type games.

 

My assertion is that nothing will ever change with this team if we keep replacing departed free agents with players with similar skill sets and physicality.

The problem is that the guys that the Sabres really need (i.e. top 3-6 forwards who play a tough, physical game AND can score) are rare birds and don't come on the market very often. Unfortunately, when they do (e.g. Mike Richards, Ryan Smyth), the Sabres don't seem to be in the mix.

[Eleven]

We all have our whipping boys. :D

 

 

Speaking of Stafford, where's he been?