If the goal is to Win Cups...

[Stormin Norman]

... then how can Lindy not give serious consideration to making Enroth the starter? An organization designed to win championships has no sacred cows.

 

I am a Ryan Miller fan. When he is "on," there is no better. But when he is just a little off, he is at best average. The Philly series last year illustrated this perfectly. Every time Enroth notches another victory, he makes the case that the Sabres leadership will make decisions based purely on winning. How refreshing is that!!! (Maybe even Boys and Roy got the message last night - I actually noticed them in a good way).

 

Enroth has a large enough body of work to warrant consideration as a starter. Cheers to Lindy for acting on it.

 

Miller needed a wake-up call. I have always had concern for Miller's psyche, and he acts as if he's entitled to be the starting goaltender for Buffalo regardless of how he plays. Some may call his reaction a reflection of his competitiveness. I think it's entitlement.

[NowDoYouBelieve]

... then how can Lindy not give serious consideration to making Enroth the starter? An organization designed to win championships has no sacred cows.

 

I am a Ryan Miller fan. When he is "on," there is no better. But when he is just a little off, he is at best average. The Philly series last year illustrated this perfectly. Every time Enroth notches another victory, he makes the case that the Sabres leadership will make decisions based purely on winning. How refreshing is that!!! (Maybe even Boys and Roy got the message last night - I actually noticed them in a good way).

 

Enroth has a large enough body of work to warrant consideration as a starter. Cheers to Lindy for acting on it.

 

Miller needed a wake-up call. I have always had concern for Miller's psyche, and he acts as if he's entitled to be the starting goaltender for Buffalo regardless of how he plays. Some may call his reaction a reflection of his competitiveness. I think it's entitlement.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_position_effect

 

I swear, it's as if everybody was just waiting for the opportunity to jump on Miller.

 

Why does there always have to be a good guy and a bad guy? I partially blame the hyperreactive sports media that shouts CONTROVERSY! every time a traditional starter hits the pine.

 

Why does Enroth's success have to reflect negatively on Miller? Any objective party would look at the situation and say "Yeah, you gotta ride the hot goalie". Instead, many of us have developed elaborate fictions where Miller is playing awful and acting like a baby. Neither is true. Look at the stats. Even WITH the horrible Philly game, he's having a pretty typical Miller season.

 

Maybe the Vezina Trophy season was the worst thing to happen to Miller...now he can never live up to the expectations of one statistically anamolous year.

 

/rant

[wjag]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_position_effect

 

I swear, it's as if everybody was just waiting for the opportunity to jump on Miller.

 

Why does there always have to be a good guy and a bad guy? I partially blame the hyperreactive sports media that shouts CONTROVERSY! every time a traditional starter hits the pine.

 

Why does Enroth's success have to reflect negatively on Miller? Any objective party would look at the situation and say "Yeah, you gotta ride the hot goalie". Instead, many of us have developed elaborate fictions where Miller is playing awful and acting like a baby. Neither is true. Look at the stats. Even WITH the horrible Philly game, he's having a pretty typical Miller season.

 

Maybe the Vezina Trophy season was the worst thing to happen to Miller...now he can never live up to the expectations of one statistically anamolous year.

 

/rant

 

There is clearly a tendency on this board to fabricate lockerroom stories about likes and dislikes.

[nostyle126]

I am all for a team-before-individual attitude, but let's be real. Ryan Miller at his finest is a better goaltender than Jhonas Enroth at his finest. Instead of rooting for Enroth to be the starter, we should be hoping Miller can get his game back on track and be the elite goaltender he has shown he can be. That gives us the best chance to win. I'm amazed at how quickly some Sabres fans have turned on Miller. We're talking about a guy who has given us top 5 goaltending for most of his career, despite having subpar defenses in front of him and despite Ruff's aggressive system that often leaves the goaltender out to dry.

 

Miller is in a funk. He needs to work it out. In the mean time play Enroth. But to those of you that think Enroth is the better goalie or that Miller is the one thing holding this team back from a championship, I think you need to reevaluate the situation a bit. For this team to truly compete for a Cup, they need Miller in net...a physically and mentally healthy Miller. That is what we should be rooting for.

[Weave]

I'll say this. The positive side to this "goaltender controversy" is that if it continues (ie. Enroth continues to play at a high level), it gives the team the flexibility it didn't have in the past. And I'm not just talking about giving an overworked goalie a rest either, although that is a legitimate benefit. We now have yet another position that we are deep in, deeper than we need to be. Come trade time one of those two goalies becomes a valuable asset that could be moved for the piece(s) we need to go deeper into the playoffs. Suddenly, if we move a wing, defenseman, and/or a goalie, we aren't creating one weakness to plug another. This team is showing that it has depth everywhere but center. Depth that can be used to get the missing pieces for a big run. This could get very interesting.

[SwampD]

Enroth has proven nothing to me, yet. Miller is the starter and should be. It bodes well for us that we are in this position though. Boston won last year with Thomas and Rask having a playing ratio of 2/1. Surprising, no? The year before, they played almost the exact number of games (granted, Thomas was either injured or getting back to form after being injured).

 

There is no controversy. Miller starts, Enroth backs him up,.. just more often this year.

[deluca67]

Enroth has proven nothing to me, yet. Miller is the starter and should be. It bodes well for us that we are in this position though. Boston won last year with Thomas and Rask having a playing ratio of 2/1. Surprising, no? The year before, they play almost the exact number of games (granted, Thomas was either injured or getting back to form after being injured).

 

There is no controversy. Miller starts, Enroth backs him up,.. just more often this year.

"Often" should be dictated by his play. There shouldn't be a predetermined number of games based on Miller's perceived status.

[SwampD]

"Often" should be dictated by his play. There shouldn't be a predetermined number of games based on Miller's perceived status.

Maybe, yet you want a predetermined number of games based on Enroth's "perceived status". There is no proof yet that Enroth can hold up to being a starter in the NHL, and why put him in that position if we don't have to. Miller has proven that he can win with a heavy workload.

 

I just think we need to lose all the drama. We are in a really good position right now.

[stenbaro]

Well Miller and Enroth have one thing in common anyways,neither has been the reason the Sabres have won a playoff series or a Stanley Cup..Time will tell which one accomplishes that..

[NowDoYouBelieve]

Well Miller and Enroth have one thing in common anyways,neither has been the reason the Sabres have won a playoff series or a Stanley Cup..Time will tell which one accomplishes that..

 

Miller has contributed to 4 playoff series wins. It's a team sport.

[donteatyellowsnow]

I am all for a team-before-individual attitude, but let's be real. Ryan Miller at his finest is a better goaltender than Jhonas Enroth at his finest. Instead of rooting for Enroth to be the starter, we should be hoping Miller can get his game back on track and be the elite goaltender he has shown he can be. That gives us the best chance to win. I'm amazed at how quickly some Sabres fans have turned on Miller. We're talking about a guy who has given us top 5 goaltending for most of his career, despite having subpar defenses in front of him and despite Ruff's aggressive system that often leaves the goaltender out to dry.

 

Miller is in a funk. He needs to work it out. In the mean time play Enroth. But to those of you that think Enroth is the better goalie or that Miller is the one thing holding this team back from a championship, I think you need to reevaluate the situation a bit. For this team to truly compete for a Cup, they need Miller in net...a physically and mentally healthy Miller. That is what we should be rooting for.

 

 

I think it is stuff like this that riles people up. Other than 1 year, Miller has NEVER approached top 5 goalie status stat wise. So while you and a ton of others keep saying this stuff, it has never proven out and is purely your opinion which I disagree with and which the stats prove otherwise.

 

Why is impossible for you to believe that there just could be somebody better than Miller? There are a lot better than Miller and I think Enroth is one of them! Right now, so does Ruff.

 

As far as championships go, how long must we wait for Ryan to take them past the 1st round, let alone a championship? Last 3 playoff series he is 0-3, losing to Emery, Rask, 3 headed monster the Flyers played. That's not exactly losing to the best of the best, know what I mean. The only time Miller made it past the 1st round, he had a very good team in front of him with 2 guys named DB/CD. I'm ready to turn the page and see if some new blood can do better, because as of right now Miller has not sufficed. Haven't won with him, and I believe they never will, so I believe it's time for a change.

[NowDoYouBelieve]

I think it is stuff like this that riles people up. Other than 1 year, Miller has NEVER approached top 5 goalie status stat wise. So while you and a ton of others keep saying this stuff, it has never proven out and is purely your opinion which I disagree with and which the stats prove otherwise.

 

Why is impossible for you to believe that there just could be somebody better than Miller? There are a lot better than Miller and I think Enroth is one of them! Right now, so does Ruff.

 

As far as championships go, how long must we wait for Ryan to take them past the 1st round, let alone a championship? Last 3 playoff series he is 0-3, losing to Emery, Rask, 3 headed monster the Flyers played. That's not exactly losing to the best of the best, know what I mean. The only time Miller made it past the 1st round, he had a very good team in front of him with 2 guys named DB/CD. I'm ready to turn the page and see if some new blood can do better, because as of right now Miller has not sufficed. Haven't won with him, and I believe they never will, so I believe it's time for a change.

 

It's already happened! Twice! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, here.

[donteatyellowsnow]

Miller has contributed to 4 playoff series wins. It's a team sport.

 

 

Ohhh, 4 playoff series wins in 8 years. Wow, now that's telling!

 

To win the cup you need to win 4 series in 1 year, and you think Miller is capable of that? Right!

 

He hasn't gotten it done, now they have somebody better and it is time to let him try.

[HopefulFuture]

It's already happened! Twice! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, here.

This is not true in the sense others view it.

For starters, many of us (yes, including me) look at the situation of the 2 ECF runs and clearly see it as Briere and Drury carried us to victory in those early rounds to get to the ECF series.

In some sense, you are correct, in some those of us that view that way are correct.

Miller was the goalie in those runs, yes, but taking into consideration that once Breire and Drury left we haven't won one since is a telling statistic.

 

But I will concede that it's a team effort and Miller is a part of that team.

Many on here view my willingness to jettison Miller in favor of Enroth is a crusade. I merely point out his failures in clutch games and would like to see a different out come. Is Enroth the answer to that? No one knows, but I (and many more who share my view of the situation) would like to try Enroth given the lack of success with Miller.

 

But Miller isn't going anywhere this season, we should revisit this in the off season to see where we stand then.

[SwampD]

Ohhh, 4 playoff series wins in 8 years. Wow, now that's telling!

 

To win the cup you need to win 4 series in 1 year, and you think Miller is capable of that? Right!

 

He hasn't gotten it done, now they have somebody better and it is time to let him try.

Oh, brother.

 

Look at the opposition, would ya'. Lindy is actually putting Enroth in a great position to succeed. He really only has one quality win this year (Pittsburgh) and even they were depleted at the time.

 

Why can't we just be grateful that we have a capable back up that can fill in for our starter when he is in a slump (and ALL starters have slumps). No, we have to go nuts and say he Sucks and is fragile and try and run him out of town.

 

I'm done with this topic.

[donteatyellowsnow]

Oh, brother.

 

Look at the opposition, would ya'. Lindy is actually putting Enroth in a great position to succeed. He really only has one quality win this year (Pittsburgh) and even they were depleted at the time.

 

Why can't we just be grateful that we have a capable back up that can fill in for our starter when he is in a slump (and ALL starters have slumps). No, we have to go nuts and say he Sucks and is fragile and try and run him out of town.

 

I'm done with this topic.

 

 

Really? Discrediting anything Enroth has done and using lame excuses to do so? LMAO! :rolleyes:

[Weave]

I'm done with this topic.

 

 

Ah, who you kidding? You can't quit us. :P :D

[SwampD]

Really? Discrediting anything Enroth has done and using lame excuses to do so? LMAO! :rolleyes:

Nice in depth retort. I see your point now.

 

Ah, who you kidding? You can't quit us. :P :D

I know. [/hangs head in shame]

[zow2]

Lindy is not an idiot. He did exactly as i would have done in staying w Enroth. Ruff uses the goalie that he "trusts" and that has only been Miller for several years. Now things have changed. I'd give Miller a road start soon but keep using Enroth at home until he messes up. I also like Enroth's mental makeup. Doesn't seem to get rattled after goals.

[LGR4GM]

This is not true in the sense others view it.

For starters, many of us (yes, including me) look at the situation of the 2 ECF runs and clearly see it as Briere and Drury carried us to victory in those early rounds to get to the ECF series.

In some sense, you are correct, in some those of us that view that way are correct.

Miller was the goalie in those runs, yes, but taking into consideration that once Breire and Drury left we haven't won one since is a telling statistic.

 

But I will concede that it's a team effort and Miller is a part of that team.

Many on here view my willingness to jettison Miller in favor of Enroth is a crusade. I merely point out his failures in clutch games and would like to see a different out come. Is Enroth the answer to that? No one knows, but I (and many more who share my view of the situation) would like to try Enroth given the lack of success with Miller.

 

But Miller isn't going anywhere this season, we should revisit this in the off season to see where we stand then.

Stop for a second. You just said it is a team sport. You then said that Drury/Briere are waht made teh 05-07teams really good. Then because after they left Miller didn't carry the load, he is a "failure" in clutch games.

 

To summarize Briere and Drury are the only reasons miller got past round 1 in a team sport and now that they are gone Miller can't cut it even though it is a team sport and we lost our 2 best players in 1 offseason. You just contradicted your own logic by making the past series losses Miller's fault and taking into consideration no regards what so ever for the quality of play or team in front of him.

 

If Miller carries the team he is great but if the team flat out sucks and Miller loses its all Miller's fault :blink: . THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU JUST SAID. Either it is a team sport, or it is not. You can't have it both ways.

 

Personally I think that goaltenders can steal you games here and there but the days of them outright winning you a series are fading. Thomas is probably the last really great goaltender and he isn't doing great this year. Would we rank Rinne, Niemi, or Ward in the "failure" because of losing clutch games motif that has surrounded your argument? 15 goalies every single season will lose a "clutch" game. Only 1 makes it through. Statistically speaking Miller should have more "clutch losses" than wins. This is before I consider the garbage team that played in front of him in the last 4 years.

[bunomatic]

Change the title of this thread and we'd have the Miller/ Enroth controversy thread minus the chs/assquach controversy. :blink:

[Weave]

Change the title of this thread and we'd have the Miller/ Enroth controversy thread minus the chs/assquach controversy. :blink:

 

And no gas station bean and cheese bombs.

[SwampD]

And no gas station bean and cheese bombs.

But, aren't they the spice of life?

[Weave]

But, aren't they the spice of life?

 

Well, life isn't complete without them but I'd still label them "the spice of death". At least that's what it feels like after the coffee has moved things along. :D

[SwampD]

Well, life isn't complete without them but I'd still label them "the spice of death". At least that's what it feels like after the coffee has moved things along. :D

nice