Transfer of Power: THE EMERGENCE OF ENROTH!

[apuszczalowski]

Based on his skill sets (which, if you bothered to research his junior career you'd see) and by his ability to show patience in training within the AHL (the transition to the NA game) combined with his swagger, if you will, mentally.

I believe he has all the makings of a fine goaltender that will undoubtedly remove Miller from the throne quite honestly, in my opinion.

 

I also believe this will lead to a better overall competitive edge for the Sabres.

There are alot of players that have had good Junior Careers and worked hard in the AHL and never became more then average players in the NHL. He still has shown no more ability IN THE NHL to win a "clutch game" then you claim Miller has to not win them.

 

You would think with your incredible talent to judge goaltenders by their Junior career, and work ethic in the AHL that teams would be beating down your door to work in their front office as a scout or coach

[apuszczalowski]

That's just it, you don't have the historical record. You have a selective set of data points chosen to directly prove your position. It is dishonest and I will not stand for it. It brings the board down. And it devalues all the other, often good, posts you make. Your mistake in the assumption here is hurting yourself and others, and it should be corrected.

he does have historical record, Miller was the goaltender in those games, and the end result was a loss. What he does not have is anything close to an arguement that those games were lsot because of the goaltender in net, and not because AS A TEAM, they were beaten/outplayed.

[apuszczalowski]

Really?

Because I go to 41 (well, normally 41, except for those pesky Eruo games) every season and I don't see any championship banners in the rafters or pictures of the Stanley Cup being hoisted by the current Sabres netminder.

Did I miss something or is almost good enough now good enough?

Wow, good for you, you attend 41 games a year, must mean you are an expert, Your phone must be ringing off the hook with NHL team execs calling for you to come aboard and evaluate talent for them. :rolleyes: I don't see any of Enroth either, Nor do I see any game records of Enroth winning "clutch games" in the NHL, Nor do I see any statistics showing that Enroth can perform at a high level over the length of a full NHL season.

 

I don't see any banners in the rafters of championships won by the French Connection either, or photos of them hoisting a Stanley Cup, guess those guys weren't "clutch game" performers

[LastPommerFan]

he does have historical record, Miller was the goaltender in those games, and the end result was a loss. What he does not have is anything close to an arguement that those games were lsot because of the goaltender in net, and not because AS A TEAM, they were beaten/outplayed.

 

NO! He's ignoring all the wins. He's ignoring the fact that the philly series is lost in 5 games without miller. He's ignoring the elimination game wins. He's ignoring the fact that he was chosen as the best player in the entire Olympic tournament including the gold medal game. It's like saying Vanek and Pominville didn't get on the scoresheet in Tampa, so they're having a bad season.

[darksabre]

This thread is an absolute train wreck.

[LastPommerFan]

This thread is an absolute train wreck.

 

You want to, but you can't stop watching.

[dEnnis the Menace]

This thread is an absolute train wreck.

 

We should trade this thread for a better thread then obviously since it is not performing up to your standards sir. :thumbsup:

[spndnchz]

This thread is an absolute train wreck.

 

It's like a Mighty Taco. It looks so good on the outside, taste great going down, but you never NEVER want to look inside.

[korab rules]

We should trade this thread for a better thread then obviously since it is not performing up to your standards sir. :thumbsup:

Well, this thread hasn't won anything, so it can't possibly be better than some other thread that was just promoted from the minors 12 posts ago...

 

Oh, screw it. This thread sucks. I'm starting to think hopeful future = PA Sabre Fan

[spndnchz]

[qwksndmonster]

I read the first two pages, became sick of what I was reading, then skipped to the sixth to see some of my favorite posters saying "This thread sucks." Yes it does.

[HopefulFuture]

That's just it, you don't have the historical record. You have a selective set of data points chosen to directly prove your position. It is dishonest and I will not stand for it. It brings the board down. And it devalues all the other, often good, posts you make. Your mistake in the assumption here is hurting yourself and others, and it should be corrected.

But those "selective set of data points" you mention are the very "clutch games" I speak of.

What is dishonest here is the way you attempt to make it a personal issue. If people get "down" over someones opinion on an NHL hockey goalie might I suggest some help be sought out.

I make no mistake in formulating my opinion, and this specific subject should in no way affect how individuals view other subjects I may so choose to chime in on.

There is no mistake here, and what you attempt to say here in all actuality devalues MY input on a subject. I will not be moved by disenting opinions from my own view. I see it as it is, not as I wish it to be, if that were the case, we'd all be more than happy with Miller between the pipes, but as it stands, not all fans are happy with that decision, and for their own, various reasons. Some coincide with my own, many however, do not.

 

While I appreciate the compliment of my input on other levels, I fail to understand how my views on this subject based on my opinion are anything but that, my views and opinions. A message board, afterall, is a great place to discuss subjects, in this case, the Sabres. Like I said, I stand firm on my convictions with regards to this subject.

[qwksndmonster]

NO! He's ignoring all the wins. He's ignoring the fact that the philly series is lost in 5 games without miller. He's ignoring the elimination game wins. He's ignoring the fact that he was chosen as the best player in the entire Olympic tournament including the gold medal game. It's like saying Vanek and Pominville didn't get on the scoresheet in Tampa, so they're having a bad season.

Oh, and I agree with everything this guy has said the entire thread.

[apuszczalowski]

NO! He's ignoring all the wins. He's ignoring the fact that the philly series is lost in 5 games without miller. He's ignoring the elimination game wins. He's ignoring the fact that he was chosen as the best player in the entire Olympic tournament including the gold medal game. It's like saying Vanek didn't get on the scoresheet in Tampa, so he's having a bad season.

get your sarcasim meter checked

 

My point is, he is right, there is historical evidence that Miller has lost in "clutch games", But theres Historical Evidence that probably 99.9% of all players have lost in "clutch games", but what he doesn't have is an arguement that those losses were because of the goaltending

[apuszczalowski]

We should trade this thread for a better thread then obviously since it is not performing up to your standards sir. :thumbsup:

I'm guessing we have younger threads that are showing more potential to be better then this one?

[HopefulFuture]

Wow, good for you, you attend 41 games a year, must mean you are an expert, Your phone must be ringing off the hook with NHL team execs calling for you to come aboard and evaluate talent for them. :rolleyes: I don't see any of Enroth either, Nor do I see any game records of Enroth winning "clutch games" in the NHL, Nor do I see any statistics showing that Enroth can perform at a high level over the length of a full NHL season.

 

I don't see any banners in the rafters of championships won by the French Connection either, or photos of them hoisting a Stanley Cup, guess those guys weren't "clutch game" performers

Here is where a little maturaity goes a long way. Just a suggestion for you.

But the French Connection wasn't in town for 6 seasons running.

I'd hate to burst your bubble on that one.

But, hey, atleast they went to a Cup Finals, unlike a certain netminder I know who wears #30 for the Sabres

 

You see how the discussion sounds now? Not very sociable, is it?

As I stated, I have my opinion/view, you have yours, I respect yours and merely put mine out there, it may or may not be liked by all, but I'll not be abashed from posting it and asking to have a frank discussion on the subject.

If you don't agree, that's fine, I respect that.

[dEnnis the Menace]

But those "selective set of data points" you mention are the very "clutch games" I speak of.

What is dishonest here is the way you attempt to make it a personal issue. If people get "down" over someones opinion on an NHL hockey goalie might I suggest some help be sought out.

I make no mistake in formulating my opinion, and this specific subject should in no way affect how individuals view other subjects I may so choose to chime in on.

There is no mistake here, and what you attempt to say here in all actuality devalues MY input on a subject. I will not be moved by disenting opinions from my own view. I see it as it is, not as I wish it to be, if that were the case, we'd all be more than happy with Miller between the pipes, but as it stands, not all fans are happy with that decision, and for their own, various reasons. Some coincide with my own, many however, do not.

 

While I appreciate the compliment of my input on other levels, I fail to understand how my views on this subject based on my opinion are anything but that, my views and opinions. A message board, afterall, is a great place to discuss subjects, in this case, the Sabres. Like I said, I stand firm on my convictions with regards to this subject.

 

The problem a lot of people were having was that you were throwing out your opinion as if it was fact (and even stated so more than once) when it was just your opinion, and when they called you out on it, you continued to throw it back at them that it was fact with only SELECT facts behind it. I enjoy your input on some subjects as well, however, when one only looks at a portion of the "facts" and treats them as the only facts and discredits others when they try to show the other facts, it becomes annoying!

[HopefulFuture]

get your sarcasim meter checked

 

My point is, he is right, there is historical evidence that Miller has lost in "clutch games", But theres Historical Evidence that probably 99.9% of all players have lost in "clutch games", but what he doesn't have is an arguement that those losses were because of the goaltending

In some cases, this is correct, in others, not so much.

I never stated he was the root cause of the losses and good to know someone reads my actual posts.

I was merely pointing to his apparant inability to take control of those moments and make them happen.

 

Does that mean that I believe Enroth will be able to? Well, yes, yes it does. I see an entirely different attitude in the kid.

Someone posted their observation on how he reminds them of Hasek, I do agree with that sentiment.

I also believe, that the confidence I have in Enroth, I'd like to see the team move Miller for a vastly improved offensive situation.

[apuszczalowski]

While I appreciate the compliment of my input on other levels, I fail to understand how my views on this subject based on my opinion are anything but that, my views and opinions. A message board, afterall, is a great place to discuss subjects, in this case, the Sabres. Like I said, I stand firm on my convictions with regards to this subject.

But you keep trying to say your "Opinions and views" are FACTS, backed up by "Historical Record"

[rickshaw]

It's clear there are 2 camps here, Miller's and Enroth's.

 

I think Enroth will prove to be a better goalie long term. My opinion.

 

I believe Miller is good trade bait for other pressing areas. I believe Enroth is the real deal.

 

I think the skaters must get fed up always being thrown under the bus for their mistakes, yet Miller can never EVER own up to his, making it a team thing. He's paid to stop pucks, and make the timely saves. For $6.25 million, he's grossly overpaid for that job.

 

I think it's time for a change behind the bench and in the nets. You shouldn't play because you are the highest paid goalie, you should play because you are giving your team the best chance to win. Miller is not doing that right now.

 

I'd move him. Better to move him a year or two too early than a year or two too late. Give Enroth the reigns and get a reliable backup (ie Lalime - I kid, I kid :))

[HopefulFuture]

The problem a lot of people were having was that you were throwing out your opinion as if it was fact (and even stated so more than once) when it was just your opinion, and when they called you out on it, you continued to throw it back at them that it was fact with only SELECT facts behind it. I enjoy your input on some subjects as well, however, when one only looks at a portion of the "facts" and treats them as the only facts and discredits others when they try to show the other facts, it becomes annoying!

I challenge your statement that I called any opinion a fact. The OP was a mixture of fact and opinion, but there were clear definitions of each.

What was stated is factual. What was viewed as opinion was just that.

[Samson's Flow]

This thread is an absolute train wreck.

 

 

Well, this thread hasn't won anything, so it can't possibly be better than some other thread that was just promoted from the minors 12 posts ago...

 

Oh, screw it. This thread sucks. I'm starting to think hopeful future = PA Sabre Fan

 

 

I read the first two pages, became sick of what I was reading, then skipped to the sixth to see some of my favorite posters saying "This thread sucks." Yes it does.

You all summed it up perfectly. Burn it down.

 

I read the whole thread and still don't really think anything was accomplished or discussed. It's like TBD in the Flutie/Bledsoe or Edwards/Losman days... :bag:

[beerme1]

HopefulFuture can I ask you how many clutch games Hasek choked in while he was here for such a brief period of time?

[HopefulFuture]

There are alot of players that have had good Junior Careers and worked hard in the AHL and never became more then average players in the NHL. He still has shown no more ability IN THE NHL to win a "clutch game" then you claim Miller has to not win them.

 

You would think with your incredible talent to judge goaltenders by their Junior career, and work ethic in the AHL that teams would be beating down your door to work in their front office as a scout or coach

Wow, a bit touchy on the subject, aren't we?

As stated, it was my opinion, you may not like it, but it's there in any event.

As for my "claim", that is a falsehood. It's not just a claim, to date, it's factual.

And I do agree with you that many talents never make the jump to the elite level, I just happen to believe, without question, Enroth not only will, but I attest, to date, he already has.

[buffalohsix]

It's like a Mighty Taco. It looks so good on the outside, taste great going down, but you never NEVER want to look inside.

 

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