Transfer of Power: THE EMERGENCE OF ENROTH!

[apuszczalowski]

There is nothing ripping about my comments on Miller as opposed to Enroth (for those attempting to state it).

And there is nothing that says Enroth will do any better long term as well, it's merely my opinion.

I am looking at all input on this subject from the fan base, so I'm not trying to be argumentative on it, just stating my opinion on it it all.

 

You asked "What must win games has Miller lost?

I submit the following list:

Game 7 Carolina

Game 6 Boston

Game 7 Philadelphia

Gold Medal Game, 2010 Olympics

(and although not a must win game, a very high profile game that comes with its own pressures to perform) Winter Classic

 

Here's the season ending loss for the 07/08 season:

http://espn.go.com/nhl/recap/_/id/280403010/buffalo-sabres-vs-montreal-canadiens

If your an elite goalie, you have to will the team to victory by your very performance.

 

I am also looking at his career stats.

Nothing outside of the Olympic season screams out elite goaltender here.

$6.25 million for a slightly above average netminder who appears to choke in clutch situations is what I base my opinion on.

And those losses are all on Miller because they didn't win the game? It had nothing to do with the other 5 guys on the ice ahead of him on the TEAM? The Winter Classic keeps being brought up saying its high profile or a big game, when it isn't. It was a sideshow game that meant no more, or no less then last nights game against the Flyers, or any other regular season game. And in that game, both goaltenders let in one goal and took it to the shoot out where one of the best players to ever play the game, and probably the best player currently in the game scored on him. Same with the Olympics, he carried the US team to Overtime against the powerhouse home team favorites Team Canada.

 

Wins and Losses aren't everything when determining the value or play of a goaltender, Last time i checked, hockey was a team sport, and goalie was only one of 6 guys on the ice at a time. Even some of the best goaltenders struggle when the guys in front of them aren't playing great. There are very few haseks out there that can still win you the game when you struggle to score 2 goals

[Skibum]

After several years of unquestioned job security, Miller is finally getting pushed. Let's hope he responds in a good way.

 

But I seriously doubt he gets benched for Enroth as starter. I don't think Lindy would do that.

[apuszczalowski]

Winners win, and leaders lead.

I will never understand the need to attempt to defend his play at those most critical moments.

And as for your thoughts on the shootout loss, I would agree, except, at no other time does a goalie have the ability to determine the outcome more so than a 1 vs 1 situation. To me, in any event, Miller is an above average goalie who has a proven track record with regards to clutch performances.

I won't say game 6 wasn't a necessary win, but game 7 was the closer, and it didn't get done, no different really than the season ending loss to the Canadians in the regular season. In both cases, the season ended.

And that game six win, just like a few others were just as big as the game 7 because it was a must win to get to the next game, they lose and there is no game 7.

 

as for shootouts, all goalies get beat in the shootout, name me one goaltender that has never been beat one on one and never lost in a shootout? What about the Sabres 3 shooters in that shootout that couldn't beat the Pens goalie? I guess they get a free pass because Miller couldn't stop Crosby one on one?

[dEnnis the Menace]

And that game six win, just like a few others were just as big as the game 7 because it was a must win to get to the next game, they lose and there is no game 7.

 

as for shootouts, all goalies get beat in the shootout, name me one goaltender that has never been beat one on one and never lost in a shootout? What about the Sabres 3 shooters in that shootout that couldn't beat the Pens goalie? I guess they get a free pass because Miller couldn't stop Crosby one on one?

 

Besides, Crosby is one of the BEST players to ever play the game. If he's coming in one on one, or he's down low unchecked, one on one with ANY goalie, I say 7-8 times out of 10, he'll score. He's just that good. I don't care which goalie you put there, Crosby is going to score.

 

Expecting a Hasek type performance EVERY night from any other goalie is ridiculous. I'm high on Jhonas right now, but there will come a time when he gets down to, it's inevitable. The TEAM in front of the goalie needs to pick up their play when the goalie is off, and frankly, the Sabres have not been able to do that lately.

[87168]

Are you refering to the 8 games Enroth played after January 1st (when the clawing back started) or the 21-10-5 record Miller put together in what was basically half a season of MUST WIN games?

 

Im referring to the games Enroth played in Millers absence. There is no denying that Enroth played a huge role in the sabres clinching a playoff spot. No one in the league can deny that. Lindy ruff and NHL panelists even recognized him for stellar performance.

[LastPommerFan]

Im referring to the games Enroth played is Millers absence. There is no denying that Enroth played a huge role in the sabres clinching a playoff spot. No one in the league can deny that. Lindy ruff and NHL panelists even recognized him for stellar performance.

 

 

Enroth had a sub-.900 save percentage in april. The team in front of him won those games.

[RazielSabre]

We NEED them BOTH this season, Miller starts most of the time but at the moment ride Enroth as his playing better, and responsible for our only home win...

 

BTW, carrying team USA to a silver at the Olympics is kind of important. Just sayin'.... Oh and he carried this team that year, again just sayin...

 

As I state, Enroth now but both this season. Miller needs his confidence back, maybe get some aggression going. Just an idea.

[norfend]

Miller had a .930 save % and a 2.14 GAA going into last night. I don't think he's the problem.

 

What "must win" games has Miller lost? Last night was not a "must win" game, it was game 10 of an 82 game season. No one has made the playoffs by winning their 10th game. Are you referring to the game 7 he lost to Carolina in 2006 with an AHL defense in front of him? The Olympics? Last season vs Philly? What exactly are you referring to?

 

Last night we lost because we didn't show up until sometime after 8:00 and couldn't score on the power play at all. Miller let in 2 soft goals, but Philly coasted the last 50 minutes of the game and we couldn't tie it.

 

All this sensationalized "sky is falling" crap needs to stop. Its a long season.

 

Agreed all the way. Lets work out the line combinations and lack of cohesion before we get on this topic.

[HopefulFuture]

And those losses are all on Miller because they didn't win the game? It had nothing to do with the other 5 guys on the ice ahead of him on the TEAM? The Winter Classic keeps being brought up saying its high profile or a big game, when it isn't. It was a sideshow game that meant no more, or no less then last nights game against the Flyers, or any other regular season game. And in that game, both goaltenders let in one goal and took it to the shoot out where one of the best players to ever play the game, and probably the best player currently in the game scored on him. Same with the Olympics, he carried the US team to Overtime against the powerhouse home team favorites Team Canada.

 

Wins and Losses aren't everything when determining the value or play of a goaltender, Last time i checked, hockey was a team sport, and goalie was only one of 6 guys on the ice at a time. Even some of the best goaltenders struggle when the guys in front of them aren't playing great. There are very few haseks out there that can still win you the game when you struggle to score 2 goals

I happen to agree with some of your assesment here.

Especially the part about there being very few Haseks and struggling to score 2 goals.

I offer you this as a way to solve that.....

Trade Miller, in a package or standalone deal to bring in that prolific center we need and help the team acheive more than 2 goals a game.....

 

That's my opinion on this...

[87168]

Enroth had a sub-.900 save percentage in april. The team in front of him won those games.

 

So because Enroth was playing with a solid d means we should discredit his performance? He performed amazingly in the shootouts, bounced back from bad plays quickly and stays focused. His glove hand is ridiculous and he tracks the puck like a veteran. Again I see what you're saying but it seems as though you don't think Enroth played a role at all in our late post season performance. To say that the team in front of him won those games suggests that we were playing with an empty for all of those games.

[HopefulFuture]

We NEED them BOTH this season, Miller starts most of the time but at the moment ride Enroth as his playing better, and responsible for our only home win...

 

BTW, carrying team USA to a silver at the Olympics is kind of important. Just sayin'.... Oh and he carried this team that year, again just sayin...

 

As I state, Enroth now but both this season. Miller needs his confidence back, maybe get some aggression going. Just an idea.

I can agree with this.

And no need to hold the topic hostage on my thoughts alone....

Let's revisit this at the half way point of the season.

If, by then, Enroth garners some more trust from the fan base and the team still appears to be missing a component or 2, we can come back and discuss what a potential Miller trade would mean for this club.

[RazielSabre]

Enroth had a sub-.900 save percentage in april. The team in front of him won those games.

 

He was important and deserves respect, but 8/9 games doesnt make him better than Miller.

[HopefulFuture]

Besides, Crosby is one of the BEST players to ever play the game. If he's coming in one on one, or he's down low unchecked, one on one with ANY goalie, I say 7-8 times out of 10, he'll score. He's just that good. I don't care which goalie you put there, Crosby is going to score.

 

Expecting a Hasek type performance EVERY night from any other goalie is ridiculous. I'm high on Jhonas right now, but there will come a time when he gets down to, it's inevitable. The TEAM in front of the goalie needs to pick up their play when the goalie is off, and frankly, the Sabres have not been able to do that lately.

This is a Red Herring statement.

No one mentioned every game, just those "clutch" games.

And let's be quite honest with ourselves here, shall we? Clutch players show up in clutch games, it's that simple really.

Paying $6.25 million a season should get you a clutch player, especially in net.

[dEnnis the Menace]

I can agree with this.

And no need to hold the topic hostage on my thoughts alone....

Let's revisit this at the half way point of the season.

If, by then, Enroth garners some more trust from the fan base and the team still appears to be missing a component or 2, we can come back and discuss what a potential Miller trade would mean for this club.

 

Enroth is trusted by a lot of the fan base. Don't mistake the lot of us saying that Enroth just isn't our savior for we don't trust him.

 

For me, if you read my post, it's not that Enroth is a better goalie, or that Miller is on the decline, it's that right now, Enroth is hot, so I think he should play a few games right now, and then we should re insert Miller. The last thing I want to see happen is us trade Miller away for a center, and then call up one of our AHL goalies as back up who isn't capable...so we'll have another Miller/(INSERT INCAPABLE BACKUP HERE) situation. We have 2 capable goalies right now, and if one is off their game, I think Lindy needs to play the hot hand like everyone else has said, but I'm not ready to permanently bench the player that showed up night in and night out for previous seasons while the rest of the team took the night off.

[HopefulFuture]

He was important and deserves respect, but 8/9 games doesnt make him better than Miller.

No where is it stated he is better than Miller.

Merely that he can handle the job at the same rate as Miller (for less money the next 2 seasons mind you) and that Miller, right now, would bring in a juicy return in a trade that could actually significantly increase offensive production.

 

I would like to see a Miller trade not for the sake of trading him, but for the sake of bettering the team where it needs to be bettered, in the offensive ranks where offensive zone pressure and point producing results are sorely needed. Specifically that center position.

 

Miller would indeed make a juicy trade imaginable, and with Enroth performing back there, at such a young age and clearly the future in net for Buffalo, it's atleast something that can be considered.

[dEnnis the Menace]

This is a Red Herring statement.

No one mentioned every game, just those "clutch" games.

And let's be quite honest with ourselves here, shall we? Clutch players show up in clutch games, it's that simple really.

Paying $6.25 million a season should get you a clutch player, especially in net.

 

How is this a red herring statement?!

[HopefulFuture]

Enroth is trusted by a lot of the fan base. Don't mistake the lot of us saying that Enroth just isn't our savior for we don't trust him.

 

For me, if you read my post, it's not that Enroth is a better goalie, or that Miller is on the decline, it's that right now, Enroth is hot, so I think he should play a few games right now, and then we should re insert Miller. The last thing I want to see happen is us trade Miller away for a center, and then call up one of our AHL goalies as back up who isn't capable...so we'll have another Miller/(INSERT INCAPABLE BACKUP HERE) situation. We have 2 capable goalies right now, and if one is off their game, I think Lindy needs to play the hot hand like everyone else has said, but I'm not ready to permanently bench the player that showed up night in and night out for previous seasons while the rest of the team took the night off.

You are merely speculating on the "incapable backup" hype. You, nor I, nor anyone for that matter would have knowledge of what they could or would do to address it. More fodder for the cannon, not something that is at the forefront of bettering this club.

[HopefulFuture]

A short, pressure packed tournament where your every single game plays a major role in your final result. But yeah, he definitely can't play in the big game. :rolleyes:

No one stated he can't play in big games.

I stated he can't play in "clutch" games where a season or tournament were on the line.

The results on this historically in his pro career speak for themselves, and no matter how you feel on the subject, the truth is the truth.

[dEnnis the Menace]

You are merely speculating on the "incapable backup" hype. You, nor I, nor anyone for that matter would have knowledge of what they could or would do to address it. More fodder for the cannon, not something that is at the forefront of bettering this club.

 

Drew Macintyre (sp?) is a career AHL'er. I'm sorry, but he'll just be another Lalime or other incapable backup. And frankly, I don't see Leggio being our future backup either. You want to talk about Ruff not having confidence in backups...just saying

[dEnnis the Menace]

No one stated he can't play in big games.

I stated he can't play in "clutch" games where a season or tournament were on the line.

The results on this historically in his pro career speak for themselves, and no matter how you feel on the subject, the truth is the truth.

 

Your whole argument has been about Miller's performance in big games (at least, that's how you started it in one of the ten other threads your crusading about this in).

[frissonic]

when i was in college, i got married. the whole time leading up to the wedding and the first several months after were *extremely* stressful. and i mean coal-to-diamond stressful. neither i nor my wife got quite the grades we wanted out of pretty much *any* classes. the change was just too great.

 

i wonder if a large part of this slide we're witnessing isn't due to some kind of leak from his outside world into his professional world. i know he tries to be all zen mastery and what-not, but let's face facts: starting off a new marriage is off the charts, extreme stress. in my opinion, it's blissful stress, but stressful nonetheless.

[Jerry Jabber]

Just like in football, the backup is always better until he has to play. This is way to early to start a goalie controversy. Everyone has slumps and Miller is currently in one. He needs time to snap out of his slump. IMO, Enroth is the hot goalie right now and should play for the next 2-3 games. This will give Miller time to regroup and refocus. I like what I've seen from Enroth and I hope he can continue playing at a high level.

[HopefulFuture]

How is this a red herring statement?!

You made the statement that "expecting a HASEK type performance every night" as though that is what I had posted.

Not true at all, therefor, when the facts of Miller's professional performances in "clutch", must win games presented themselves to you, you immediately attempt to word play the situation to some type of advantage for what I can only assume is a win for your arguement.

However, it was and still is clearly defined, you can't argue against the historical facts I presented in those big game moments because they have already been played out. You could argue that it may change in the future given his overall performance as a netminder at the professional level. I would listen to the reasoning as to the why's.

 

But, I stand firm in my convictions on Ryan Miller, I am of the opinion this organization should use him to bring in a most needed stud center, either standalone or in a package deal. His performance with the Sabres not withstanding, his failures in the "Big Game" catagory duely noted and Enroth's emergence as not only the future, but quite capable of handling the current netminding duties successfully lead me to stand strong on my thoughts on this.

[HopefulFuture]

Your whole argument has been about Miller's performance in big games (at least, that's how you started it in one of the ten other threads your crusading about this in).

No reason to call my opinion a crusade, sometimes, the truth hurts.

[HopefulFuture]

when i was in college, i got married. the whole time leading up to the wedding and the first several months after were *extremely* stressful. and i mean coal-to-diamond stressful. neither i nor my wife got quite the grades we wanted out of pretty much *any* classes. the change was just too great.

 

i wonder if a large part of this slide we're witnessing isn't due to some kind of leak from his outside world into his professional world. i know he tries to be all zen mastery and what-not, but let's face facts: starting off a new marriage is off the charts, extreme stress. in my opinion, it's blissful stress, but stressful nonetheless.

I'm not concerned about this little blip on the radar for Miller's play.

I'm way more concerned about the failures I see in him in clutch games.

He has yet to steal a series or tournament winning game, I am not saying Enroth can, I merely pointing out that Enroth is playing well, and I am of the opinion he will continue to do so and in so believing such, I would like the team to move Miller in an effort to bring in that elusive stud center.

 

I do happen to agree with you, and many on here, that it may be beneficial to have 2 good goalies, but then, I am reminded of the Miller/Biron days and how I long for a team that can put up a decent forecheck and pot the puck 3+ times a game.