game discussion thread GDT: Flyers at Sabres 11/2/11 7:30PM

[RazielSabre]

I'm not so much a MILLER hater, but when your starting Goalie is in a slump (3 straight losses) and the backup is hot (10-0-01) you go with the hot Goalie. I don't believe that MILLER should be traded (yet), but I don't agree that he should be getting 3/4's of the starts while he's struggling. I do hate the way he never seems to accept responsibility, reminds me of TRENT EDWARDS. As far as LINDY RUFF goes, I believe that the SABRES will never win the Cup with him behind the bench. This team plays flat so often, he has no idea how to get a team motivated or get the most from his players.

 

4 I think, his winless at home so far this season. I can't help but agree, 3-4 games for Enroth then go back to Miller when his heads back in the game.

[neverenough]

Regardless, he faced more than Miller and made some pretty key saves. He stepped into the hot seat against a brutal Philly offense,yes the D stepped up but like I said Enroth came in and did what a goalie is paid to do and that is stop the pucks.

 

Just because he didn't face many shots isn't reason to not give credit where credit is due. He controlled the rebounds, made some key glove saves and stopped a breakaway.

 

Miller had some horrific rebounds. The pucks where seriously being kicked out to the blue line. Last year Enroth had that problem with rebounds. This year I haven't seen it at all with him. He is really improving and showing the fans (and hopefully the coaching staff) what consistency looks like.

 

 

At this point Enroth is better than Miller in my opinion. Its up to the coaching staff to get it right. Miller is not what he once was, its time for him to backup Enroth or move on.

[donteatyellowsnow]

Can I please hear Miller take some of the blame himself and stop with the "we ALL have to get better" crap?

 

Would be nice to hear...

 

I was amazed to hear Bryzgalov the other day after their loss to the Jets 9-8. He was saying things like, "I was terrible", "I stunk", "I let my teammates down", "I need to play better", etc. I never once have heard Miller stand up and be accountable for poor performances. His schtick is really getting old!

[sabregoats]

I don't know why anyone would expect humility from a guy who insists on being the last man of the ice regardless of his performance. His arrogance shows through with this stupid idiosyncratic behavior, he believes he is better and more important than his teammates.

And, I doubt the glove problem is going to be fixed anytime soon, that weakness has been discussed on this board since the 2005 season. It is a huge whole in his game that I cannot explain. But, a large majority of the "weak" goals occur on that side of net. I still think miller is a above average to good NHL goalie, but he has never been and never will be elite. At this point Enroth needs to be getting the majority of the starts and Miller should take his turn playing the change up man. If that doesn't teach him humility nothing will.

[Weave]

Same thing. Let's get a kid from Roch to turn "no one" into someone, instead of Ellis, who always will be "no one."

 

I don't understand why Ellis is still here. I was one of maybe two or three people that questioned him being on the roster when the season started. Great guy. Works his ass off. But he's got nothing to give for the NHL. The best you'll get and ever got from him is good positioning and effort. He needs to be in Rochester showing the young uns how to be a pro, not up here just scraping by. Bring up someone with a skill set that just might win a game for us.

 

I don't come out with blatant criticism of Lindy very often, but if I'll give one it is this, Ellis is a symptom of Lindy's personality. Lindy is all about the safe play. And Ellis is a safe play. Unfortunately the NHL is a high risk, high reward environment.

[deluca67]

Good to see Adam continue producing. Two points and a +2. I wish there was a chance Lindy would leave the kid alone and let him continue to develop.

 

Enroth may not be the "better" goalie, he is certainly is playing "better" right now. Anything less than both starts this weekend is a disservice to the team and Enroth. They both deserve better than seeing Miller get a start.

 

The Toronto Maple Leafs are a better team than the Buffalo Sabres and will not be going away.

 

Leopold is by far the worst defenseman the Sabres have. Keep Mag and Weber in the lineup and keep Leopold in the press-box until needed as an injury replacement.

 

Did Drew Stafford dress last night? 11 games into the season and it appears the Sabres have the old Drew Stafoord not the one that went on the 32 game tear last season.

 

I can't say Leino played well, as least he was noticeable which is a huge step considering his level of play over the first 10 games.

[FolignosJock]

Good to see Adam continue producing. Two points and a +2. I wish there was a chance Lindy would leave the kid alone and let him continue to develop.

 

Enroth may not be the "better" goalie, he is certainly is playing "better" right now. Anything less than both starts this weekend is a disservice to the team and Enroth. They both deserve better than seeing Miller get a start.

 

The Toronto Maple Leafs are a better team than the Buffalo Sabres and will not be going away.

 

Leopold is by far the worst defenseman the Sabres have. Keep Mag and Weber in the lineup and keep Leopold in the press-box until needed as an injury replacement.

 

Did Drew Stafford dress last night? 11 games into the season and it appears the Sabres have the old Drew Stafoord not the one that went on the 32 game tear last season.

 

I can't say Leino played well, as least he was noticeable which is a huge step considering his level of play over the first 10 games.

 

 

This team needs to gel and quick.

[darksabre]

I said earlier that last night would be a statement game, and here is the statement I saw:

 

We can't set the tone at puck drop.

 

They took over the game in the second and third last night. It was desperation hockey. Paul Gaustad was skating harder than I've seen him skate in a long time. But it took three quick goals, a tender change, and I assume a massive stick throwing fit from Ruff in the locker room, to get them to take things into their own hands.

 

This team needs to learn how to put the game in their control from the very first puck drop. That means 110% effort on the forecheck, big hits, physical board play. I don't care if you start a fight off the face off. Do SOMETHING to take ownership of the game.

 

Because right now there is no pride in this team. Hate on Matt Ellis all you want, but that dude is all about pride.

[nucci]

I said earlier that last night would be a statement game, and here is the statement I saw:

 

We can't set the tone at puck drop.

 

They took over the game in the second and third last night. It was desperation hockey. Paul Gaustad was skating harder than I've seen him skate in a long time. But it took three quick goals, a tender change, and I assume a massive stick throwing fit from Ruff in the locker room, to get them to take things into their own hands.

 

This team needs to learn how to put the game in their control from the very first puck drop. That means 110% effort on the forecheck, big hits, physical board play. I don't care if you start a fight off the face off. Do SOMETHING to take ownership of the game.

 

Because right now there is no pride in this team. Hate on Matt Ellis all you want, but that dude is all about pride.

Big guaranteed contracts can do this to players.

[Marvelo]

Well the three that went in kind of overshadowed the 8 saves he made. ;)

 

Yanking Miller was the right move. Philly seemed to find something on the glove hand high coming down that left side. Miller has to correct that, plain and simple.

 

He will.

 

It's on him though. He had shooter.

 

In hockey, confidence is everything. It's easy to spot who's playing with confidence and who isn't. Miller isn't confident right now and his lack of confidence is emenating out to the team. They don't play confidently in front of him because he isn't confident. Hopefully, "tomorrow is another day" and Miller will somehow get his head together. But it seems like he's been in a prolonged slump and giving up more goals befitting of a 5th round draft choice in a very short amount of time than almost any time in his tenure.

 

As I said before, the two big problems on this team are Miller and Ruff. But I wonder if Ruff would ever give up on Miller and if Pegula would ever give up on Ruff. Checkmate.

[darksabre]

Big guaranteed contracts can do this to players.

 

Other teams with big players don't seem to have a problem. I feel like I'm quoting office space, but it's a problem of motivation. This team isn't coming out of the dressing room fired up and ready to dominate. That's not good. I was hoping this was the year I could get rid of the Adam Mair quote in my sig, but I guess not. They still lack killer instinct.

[Eleven]

Good to see Adam continue producing. Two points and a +2. I wish there was a chance Lindy would leave the kid alone and let him continue to develop.

 

Enroth may not be the "better" goalie, he is certainly is playing "better" right now. Anything less than both starts this weekend is a disservice to the team and Enroth. They both deserve better than seeing Miller get a start.

 

The Toronto Maple Leafs are a better team than the Buffalo Sabres and will not be going away.

 

Leopold is by far the worst defenseman the Sabres have. Keep Mag and Weber in the lineup and keep Leopold in the press-box until needed as an injury replacement.

 

Did Drew Stafford dress last night? 11 games into the season and it appears the Sabres have the old Drew Stafoord not the one that went on the 32 game tear last season.

 

I can't say Leino played well, as least he was noticeable which is a huge step considering his level of play over the first 10 games.

 

They shouldn't give both starts to Enroth this weekend. Miller is the starting goalie and should remain so despite a crappy game. He gives the team the best chance to win in the long run, if not immediately, and so they have to keep him in that starting role.

 

Also, apparently, you missed the play last night where Stafford lost his helmet, searched for it, and when he found it, put it right back on his head. Do you think that just any player can execute like that?

 

Disagree on Leo and the Leaves.

 

 

I said earlier that last night would be a statement game, and here is the statement I saw:

 

We can't set the tone at puck drop.

 

They took over the game in the second and third last night. It was desperation hockey. Paul Gaustad was skating harder than I've seen him skate in a long time. But it took three quick goals, a tender change, and I assume a massive stick throwing fit from Ruff in the locker room, to get them to take things into their own hands.

 

This team needs to learn how to put the game in their control from the very first puck drop. That means 110% effort on the forecheck, big hits, physical board play. I don't care if you start a fight off the face off. Do SOMETHING to take ownership of the game.

 

Because right now there is no pride in this team. Hate on Matt Ellis all you want, but that dude is all about pride.

 

And that's the problem with Ellis. He is all about pride, as you say; he is not about anything else, such as talent. I don't hate him; in fact, I like him. But he's not an NHL-caliber player.

[LabattBlue]

Did Drew Stafford dress last night? 11 games into the season and it appears the Sabres have the old Drew Stafoord not the one that went on the 32 game tear last season.

but but but...he makes funny videos. Stafford and at least 1/2 dozen other Sabres are playing at a level that is not acceptable.

 

I really thought the light came on last year for him, but clearly there are some issues. If he was playing hard, getting a ton of chances, and just going through a tough streak, I could understand, but that is not the case.

[darksabre]

And that's the problem with Ellis. He is all about pride, as you say; he is not about anything else, such as talent. I don't hate him; in fact, I like him. But he's not an NHL-caliber player.

 

Of course you are right. I'm in agreement with you that he is not an NHL level player. But this team could learn a lot from him. His line last night with Goose and Kaleta ran the Flyers around their own end for a whole shift with simple smash mouth, get yourself to the puck, hockey. That killer instinct to do nothing except give 100% is huge.

[DumbPuck]

Other teams with big players don't seem to have a problem. I feel like I'm quoting office space, but it's a problem of motivation. This team isn't coming out of the dressing room fired up and ready to dominate. That's not good. I was hoping this was the year I could get rid of the Adam Mair quote in my sig, but I guess not. They still lack killer instinct.

 

This seems like a pretty weak argument to me, D4. This is definitely true of last night's game. But we are 11 games into the season and from what I recall, we have come out of the gate firing on all cylinders in the majority of them. Our losing record is due to a couple poor starts, yes. But for the most part our losses came when we gave up leads in the second and third periods.

[darksabre]

This seems like a pretty weak argument to me, D4. This is definitely true of last night's game. But we are 11 games into the season and from what I recall, we have come out of the gate firing on all cylinders in the majority of them. Our losing record is due to a couple poor starts, yes. But for the most part our losses came when we gave up leads in the second and third periods.

 

Is that not the same thing? If you come out and take a guy down but don't finish him off, is that not a lack of killer instinct as well?

[DumbPuck]

I said earlier that last night would be a statement game, and here is the statement I saw:

 

We can't set the tone at puck drop.

 

They took over the game in the second and third last night. It was desperation hockey. Paul Gaustad was skating harder than I've seen him skate in a long time. But it took three quick goals, a tender change, and I assume a massive stick throwing fit from Ruff in the locker room, to get them to take things into their own hands.

 

This team needs to learn how to put the game in their control from the very first puck drop. That means 110% effort on the forecheck, big hits, physical board play. I don't care if you start a fight off the face off. Do SOMETHING to take ownership of the game.

 

Because right now there is no pride in this team. Hate on Matt Ellis all you want, but that dude is all about pride.

 

I was referring more to this.

[LabattBlue]

Other teams with big players don't seem to have a problem. I feel like I'm quoting office space, but it's a problem of motivation. This team isn't coming out of the dressing room fired up and ready to dominate. That's not good. I was hoping this was the year I could get rid of the Adam Mair quote in my sig, but I guess not. They still lack killer instinct.

I'll stick to my guns. I think Lindy's message is stale, and the players who have been around for a while, tuned him out long ago, and the new players coming in just seem to fall in line.

 

 

"Lindy ain't going anywhere" - Pegs 2011

[dEnnis the Menace]

Well, the Sabres are officially driving me to drink more than usual.

 

My thoughts on the game:

 

1) Miller needs to sit and think about his actions for a little while.

2) Enroth needs to play because right now, he is the better goalie, and maybe Miller seeing someone outplay him (on the same team...not the guy at the other end) will light a fire undre his azz.

3) I admit when I am wrong, and screwing with the Vanek-Adam-Pominville line was wrong.

4) It's scary that this team cannot do anything if the above line is not together and not producing...we are turning into a one line team

5) Weber: started off a little slow, but that was to be expected after sitting for so long. Finished strong though, and I liked the kids game tonight. I think Leopold needs to be sitting for a bit and MAG needs to be put back in.

6) the PP needs some more work: We need to learn better puck control, and we need to learn to find the shooting lanes quicker, and not take shots directly into guys (Myers, Roy, and whoever else is at the point).

7) The PK is amazing this year.

 

Overall, the Sabres have looked flat at home. I am SO SICK of hearing about how "Oh we're just trying to be too fancy at home, and we just need to simplify the play), and then watch the game where it looks simplified, not fancy, and flat. The team is not saying the right things in the interviews to make the fans feel at ease. I am not in panic mode, but i'd like to see something done to spark this team. If it means benching Miller for Enroth for a few games, so be it. The team plays a totally different game with him in net. They look more comfortable on D at times, and if you don't agree, look at the Philly PP, and right after. The D looked more calm and relaxed then they did at the beginning of the game.

 

I hope they don't play like this on Friday, because heading out on the road on a nother losing streak usually doesn't bode well for confidence, and won't be good heading into Ottawa to face a very HOT Sens team.

[darksabre]

I was referring more to this.

 

Then refer to that in your quote.

 

In my opinion, you're nitpicking. The big point here is that this team doesn't set the tone, and when they do, they fail to follow through.

 

Labatt, I'm coming around to your side of things. I'm still waiting to make a decision, but my stock in Lindy has been slowly dropping over the last two seasons and continues this year. I'm not ready to crusade yet, nor am I ready to join with the hardy crusaders, but I'm not ignoring their message.

[LastPommerFan]

I don't have the stomach to read through the thread and relive the travesty that was the first period last night, but my thoughts:

 

 

1. 
    
   
2. Lindy needs to adjust his style again. He's done it before, and with great success, but his plan is clearly stale.
   
3. Miller needs the weekend off to get his mind together. He is the Phil Mickelson of goalies. In a lot of ways.
   
4. I liked what I saw from Brad Boyes last night. Seemed to be skating to the puck more than waiting for the puck to come to him.
   
5. This defense has too much talent to stay this way for long. Miller was bad, but WAY too many uncovered Flyers.
   
6. We actually miss Jochen Hecht.
   
7. PP was on a hot streak, the failure of the new setup was collateral damage of bringing Weber in for MAG.
   

[DumbPuck]

Then refer to that in your quote.

 

In my opinion, you're nitpicking. The big point here is that this team doesn't set the tone, and when they do, they fail to follow through.

 

Labatt, I'm coming around to your side of things. I'm still waiting to make a decision, but my stock in Lindy has been slowly dropping over the last two seasons and continues this year. I'm not ready to crusade yet, nor am I ready to join with the hardy crusaders, but I'm not ignoring their message.

 

If nitpicking is the new term for "reading thoroughly and disagreeing" then yes, I agree. I think they have set the tone just fine in at least half of their games this season. Then they have failed to follow through, as you said .... in this post but not in the original.

 

 

/rabblrabblerabble

[DumbPuck]

I don't have the stomach to read through the thread and relive the travesty that was the first period last night, but my thoughts:

 

 

1. 
    
   
2. Lindy needs to adjust his style again. He's done it before, and with great success, but his plan is clearly stale.
   
3. Miller needs the weekend off to get his mind together. He is the Phil Mickelson of goalies. In a lot of ways.
   
4. I liked what I saw from Brad Boyes last night. Seemed to be skating to the puck more than waiting for the puck to come to him.
   
5. This defense has too much talent to stay this way for long. Miller was bad, but WAY too many uncovered Flyers.
   
6. We actually miss Jochen Hecht.
   
7. PP was on a hot streak, the failure of the new setup was collateral damage of bringing Weber in for MAG.
   

 

I thought the PP looked way better last night than most nights so far this year despite the outcome. I quite remember seeing them unable to enter the zone on our PP earlier last week. Don't we have one of the worst PPs in the league right now statistically?

 

EDIT: 18.9% - 12th in league. Not too bad I suppose. I stand "self-corrected".

[LastPommerFan]

I thought the PP looked way better last night than most nights so far this year despite the outcome. I quite remember seeing them unable to enter the zone on our PP earlier last week. Don't we have one of the worst PPs in the league right now statistically?

 

EDIT: 18.9% - 12th in league. Not too bad I suppose. I stand "self-corrected".

 

Yeah, we were #9 over 20% going in. I still think Lindy made the right move. This PP will work, just needs some time.

 

 

I'm tired of things needing time...

[nfreeman]

I don't buy the "we try to put on a show at home" theme either. To me it doesn't look like they are putting on a show. It looks like they think in the back of their minds that all they need to do is show up and they will magically be rewarded with a win.

 

To me it comes down to leadership. I and many others have been unhappy with the "top 6" forwards on this team for quite a while now. They as a group led the hide-under-the-bed movement in the 2 seasons after Black Sunday and they were terrible in the last 2 playoff seasons. Other than Gaustad, that is the group that was officially entrusted with the leadership and direction of this team when Pommer was named captain and the As went to Roy, Stafford and Vanek.

 

Pommer and Vanek have certainly played well this year. Roy and Stafford have been terrible. Has any of the 4 of them shown any fire during the last 2 weeks? Has any of them done anything to lift up their teammates or to deliver the message that mailing it in like this is unacceptable?

 

After the top 6 produced ZERO goals in the 2nd and 3rd periods of the entire 7-game playoff series vs Philly, I wanted major changes in the top 6 last summer. It's been clear for years, to me anyway, that the Sabres have been dying for a guy like Brenden Morrow or Ryan Smyth or Mike Richards in their top 6 (the last 2 of whom changed teams this summer, btw). We got Leino, who clearly needs more time to get acclimated, and nothing else other than a fat contract for Stafford, the return of the leader of the SGM brigade and a rookie getting promoted.

 

The good news is that there is plenty of season to go and the Sabres haven't dug themselves a hole like they did last year. Roy, Stafford and Leino (or at least 2 of them) are likely to bounce back and start producing, as is Ennis when he returns. Gerbe will probably start finishing again. But right now they don't look like they have the heart to do any better in the playoffs than they've done the past couple of years.