TheMatrix31 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 Well then, let's simplify the equation for you and others like you. If the Sabres were to execute the way a winning team does (Jeez, I know it's a hard concetp to accept, but don't let this little expectation of some fans stand in your opinions way :blink: ) any calls made in the last 10 minutes should be a moot point. But then again, oh, that's right, the forwards (and most of the D for that matter) haven't really executed in a consistent matter this season as of yet. I guess all of the "INCONSISTANCIES" in this regard fall on poor officiating or some other excuse that will, I am more than sure, abridge itself to the collective thoughts of many fans. But in reality, it all still lay with the players on the roster on their ability to overcome such adversity...... Like you propose, don't let a little thing like reality step in the way........ :rolleyes: Well, I can't comment either way, because I didn't watch THIS game. So, again, to reiterate, I'm not commenting ON THIS GAME, TONIGHT, THE SABRES AND THE PANTHERS. Just to make that clear one more time. ....guess it's too hard for people understand that I was speaking in general and that I always speak in general when talking about this issue. Like, for example, the Sacramento Kings in the 2002 Western Conference Finals. I don't know if you're a basketball fan, maybe you are, maybe you arent. But no amount of great play would overcome the referees blatantly screwing them in Game 6 of that series. It is within the realm of possibility for refs to affect the outcome of a game. That's all I'm saying. I'm really sick of the notion that it's not possible. You could be the best team in the world but if something happens that should not have happened that ends up directly benefiting the other team then its thoroughly fine to call that out.
HopefulFuture Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 The problem I have with your opinion is that accepts bad officiating, which it was. We pay too much money to deserve this. Any way you want to spin it, the officiating tonight was terrible and we deserve better. I'm not stating anything on the officiating other than it could have and should have been over come with better play from the Sabres. Anything less is to basically state that this game was handed to the Panthers by the officials, and that, Swamp, is a pure and simple falsehood. Our team lost this game long before the bad calls at the end of the 3rd. They lost this game when they failed to take control of it from the get go........
... Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 It is within the realm of possibility for refs to affect the outcome of a game. That's all I'm saying. I'm really sick of the notion that it's not possible. You could be the best team in the world but if something happens that should not have happened that ends up directly benefiting the other team then its thoroughly fine to call that out. Absolutely correct, and one would be a fool not to agree with you on this general point. I think where our minds are not meeting is that, overall, the Sabres need to make a better effort on the ice, and especially in a one-goal game like tonight, the crap officiating would not have mattered if the Sabres would actually score goals. And, overall, even with the refs handing the Panthers the game, and even with this loss tonight, the Sabres should have won some past games this season where the officiating was less bothersome making this loss a little easier to cope with, and much easier to chaulk up as a result of some bad calls. That's the only opposition I have with your point as a general matter.
SwampD Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 I'm not stating anything on the officiating other than it could have and should have been over come with better play from the Sabres. Anything less is to basically state that this game was handed to the Panthers by the officials, and that, Swamp, is a pure and simple falsehood. Our team lost this game long before the bad calls at the end of the 3rd. They lost this game when they failed to take control of it from the get go........ You mean when they went ahead at the end and were pressing in the offensive zone and a bad call on Gerbe was then added to because he was smiling? I see what you're saying. :wallbash: I Fuccking HATE THIS WAY OF THINKING!!!! I KNOW IT WOULD BE BETTER IF WE SCORED 17 GOALS AND ONLY LET IN 1, BUT IN THE REAL WORLD, games are very close and the officiating makes a difference! Why is that so hard for some people to understand? And why should we accept that?
TheMatrix31 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 Absolutely correct, and one would be a fool not to agree with you on this general point. I think where our minds are not meeting is that, overall, the Sabres need to make a better effort on the ice, and especially in a one-goal game like tonight, the crap officiating would not have mattered if the Sabres would actually score goals. And, overall, even with the refs handing the Panthers the game, and even with this loss tonight, the Sabres should have won some past games this season where the officiating was less bothersome making this loss a little easier to cope with, and much easier to chaulk up as a result of some bad calls. That's the only opposition I have with your point as a general matter. Perhaps I'll have to find a way to DL the game or check out some in-depth highlights to see what happened or what didnt happen.
HopefulFuture Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 You mean when they went ahead at the end and were pressing in the offensive zone and a bad call on Gerbe was then added to because he was smiling? I see what you're saying. :wallbash: I Fuccking HATE THIS WAY OF THINKING!!!! I KNOW IT WOULD BE BETTER IF WE SCORED 17 GOALS AND ONLY LET IN 1, BUT IN THE REAL WORLD, games are very close and the officiating makes a difference! Why is that so hard for some people to understand? And why should we accept that? Well then, maybe your anger at the outcome should be directed towards those that put the current product on the ice together? No? So a Sabres player had a travisty occur against him, so what. If the team was up 4 to 1 or 4 to 2 I most certainly can see where the difference would lay, but then again, the Sabres have played the last 4 games I've seen (both lightning games, the Jax game and this one) without any type of puck control ability. They got what they deserve, I'm certainly not going to sugar coat the situation by blaming a 3rd party for the discouraging situation at hand..... THATS REALITY........It happens everyday......
SwampD Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 Well then, maybe your anger at the outcome should be directed towards those that put the current product on the ice together? No? So a Sabres player had a travisty occur against him, so what. If the team was up 4 to 1 or 4 to 2 I most certainly can see where the difference would lay, but then again, the Sabres have played the last 4 games I've seen (both lightning games, the Jax game and this one) without any type of puck control ability. They got what they deserve, I'm certainly not going to sugar coat the situation by blaming a 3rd party for the discouraging situation at hand..... THATS REALITY........It happens everyday...... If only my aunt had a penis, then she'd be my uncle.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 If only my aunt had a penis, then she'd be my uncle. Uncle Herm?
... Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 If only my aunt had a penis, then she'd be my uncle. Right. If only the refs called a fair game. :yawn:
SwampD Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 Right. If only the refs called a fair game. :yawn: The funny thing is, I agree with both you and Hopeful. The difference is that you are talking about what should have happened where I'm talking about what actually happened.
SabresFan526 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 Well then, maybe your anger at the outcome should be directed towards those that put the current product on the ice together? No? So a Sabres player had a travisty occur against him, so what. If the team was up 4 to 1 or 4 to 2 I most certainly can see where the difference would lay, but then again, the Sabres have played the last 4 games I've seen (both lightning games, the Jax game and this one) without any type of puck control ability. They got what they deserve, I'm certainly not going to sugar coat the situation by blaming a 3rd party for the discouraging situation at hand..... THATS REALITY........It happens everyday...... This is a bit ridiculous. You are making this entirely black and white and it's not, and THAT'S REALITY. Here's what I mean. Just because a team dominates play with puck control and outshoots the opponent does not mean they will win if they are playing a hot goalie. Lucky bounces happen in games and thus cause wins. Additionally, just because a team is playing poorly for most of a game does not mean a team loses the game. It doesn't matter what could, should, or would happen, the reality is that there are so many things that affect the outcome of a game and simply blaming poor play is a tremendous oversimplification. If you want to criticize the poor play of the Sabres and Miller for giving up two goals he should not have given up, nobody will disagree with you on that. But, to say that the outcome was not affected even in the slightest by the poor officiating tonight is absurd. The reason it is absurd is because the game immediately changed. One thing the Sabres have shown in their last game was strong play on the Power Play which they should have had for 5 minutes and had earlier scored a Power Play goal. So, you are telling me by eliminating the PP opportunity for Buffalo by the referees the Sabres would have lost? Also, what is idiotic about your post is that you are saying the game should have been decided far in advance but excluding the fact that the game is actually played for 60 minutes and that anything can happen over the course of that 60 minute span. Did the Sabres play poorly tonight? Sure they did. But, to say that by negating PP opportunities and taking an apparent goal away did not have an outcome on tonight's game is absolutely absurd. Also, this sport is a very emotional game as well, so who's to say that taking away Ellis's goal would not have had an impact on the game by allowing the Sabres to relax and the Panthers to press would not have happened? Also, who's to say the Sabres don't score 3 goals on a 5 minute PP, which is very realistic considering how well their PP has played much of this year and in the last 2 games converting on 3 goals. To say the officiating did not have an impact on this game is ridiculous. Are there things about the Sabres play that is worrisome? Sure, but that does not excuse the poor officiating tonight which absolutely had an impact on the game. Let me remind you the game is played for 60 minutes, not the first 40 minutes in which you expect the Sabres to dominate the other team thereby rendering the officiating moot. Unfortunately, that is NOT REALITY, and you are 100% wrong.
HopefulFuture Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 This is a bit ridiculous. You are making this entirely black and white and it's not, and THAT'S REALITY. Here's what I mean. Just because a team dominates play with puck control and outshoots the opponent does not mean they will win if they are playing a hot goalie. Lucky bounces happen in games and thus cause wins. Additionally, just because a team is playing poorly for most of a game does not mean a team loses the game. It doesn't matter what could, should, or would happen, the reality is that there are so many things that affect the outcome of a game and simply blaming poor play is a tremendous oversimplification. If you want to criticize the poor play of the Sabres and Miller for giving up two goals he should not have given up, nobody will disagree with you on that. But, to say that the outcome was not affected even in the slightest by the poor officiating tonight is absurd. The reason it is absurd is because the game immediately changed. One thing the Sabres have shown in their last game was strong play on the Power Play which they should have had for 5 minutes and had earlier scored a Power Play goal. So, you are telling me by eliminating the PP opportunity for Buffalo by the referees the Sabres would have lost? Also, what is idiotic about your post is that you are saying the game should have been decided far in advance but excluding the fact that the game is actually played for 60 minutes and that anything can happen over the course of that 60 minute span. Did the Sabres play poorly tonight? Sure they did. But, to say that by negating PP opportunities and taking an apparent goal away did not have an outcome on tonight's game is absolutely absurd. Also, this sport is a very emotional game as well, so who's to say that taking away Ellis's goal would not have had an impact on the game by allowing the Sabres to relax and the Panthers to press would not have happened? Also, who's to say the Sabres don't score 3 goals on a 5 minute PP, which is very realistic considering how well their PP has played much of this year and in the last 2 games converting on 3 goals. To say the officiating did not have an impact on this game is ridiculous. Are there things about the Sabres play that is worrisome? Sure, but that does not excuse the poor officiating tonight which absolutely had an impact on the game. Let me remind you the game is played for 60 minutes, not the first 40 minutes in which you expect the Sabres to dominate the other team thereby rendering the officiating moot. Unfortunately, that is NOT REALITY, and you are 100% wrong. Winners finish, it's that simple. Try this 4 paragraph retort on the 80's Oilers, or the early 90's Penguins, or the early 00's Red Wings, and they'd all say the same thing,,,,,,,,Winners finish......
SabresFan526 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 Winners finish, it's that simple. Try this 4 paragraph retort on the 80's Oilers, or the early 90's Penguins, or the early 00's Red Wings, and they'd all say the same thing,,,,,,,,Winners finish...... I guess I missed their undefeated seasons where they did not lose a single game due to poor officiating. I was not aware of their 82-0 records. I also am unaware of the salary cap these teams had in place. Oh right, there wasn't so even your point is rendered moot since you can't even compare the eras pre-cap to today. There's my retort for you. Your point is outrageously irrelevant to the thread. Bad officiating impacted the game. I'm curious as to Montreal's retort last week for losing a game they deserved to win against Buffalo. I'm curious as to Columbus's retort losing a game to Buffalo in which they outplayed Buffalo. Point being is that your view of reality is distorted and you don't seem to understand that there is more to winning and losing games than talent alone.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 Winners finish, it's that simple. Try this 4 paragraph retort on the 80's Oilers Esa Tikkanen approves of this message.
SabresFan526 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 Esa Tikkanen approves of this message. Jari Kurri approves as well.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 Jari Kurri approves as well. Two Shea
Andrew Amerk Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 Well then, maybe your anger at the outcome should be directed towards those that put the current product on the ice together? No? So a Sabres player had a travisty occur against him, so what. If the team was up 4 to 1 or 4 to 2 I most certainly can see where the difference would lay, but then again, the Sabres have played the last 4 games I've seen (both lightning games, the Jax game and this one) without any type of puck control ability. They got what they deserve, I'm certainly not going to sugar coat the situation by blaming a 3rd party for the discouraging situation at hand..... THATS REALITY........It happens everyday...... You are really missing the point in all of this.
... Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 To all of the folks claiming the point is being missed by certain folks in the thread, let us revisit the OP's topic: This is starting to happen every other game to teams consistently LEAGUE WIDE. Refs are going out of their way late in 3rd periods to make sure they factor into outcomes of games. No offense, but this must be exaggerated. Does anyone actually believe that it is A) consistent, and B) purposeful? For the amount of $$$$ fans put into games, they deserve a better production. The Refs can't be bothered to explain ANY goal or no goal decisions despite being mic'ed up and they ROUTINELY find ways to ruin the flow of games and swing the tide for whoever they choose at the worst possible times. Things that are let go all game are generally randomly called in 3rd periods. Regardless of the veracity of the first quote, the point on quality is well-taken here in the second quote, and I think no one can argue against it. Of course, the quality of officiating has historically always been in question, and therefore the fans have always deserved better officiating. Also, if there isn't enough evidence to over-turn the call then WHY IS TORONTO MAKING THE DECISION. Okay, what call exactly are we talking about, really? I suppose we can assume that since this is a Sabres message board, and this was posted after the Panther's game, it must be the Gerbe call. But, really the OP is non-specific here, and begs the reader to assume what he/she may be talking about. Horrendous. I'm so sick of this. :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: There, there, gentle OP, it will be okay in time. So, I think that the point of the thread, while some may assume it's about the Gerbe call specifically, it really is a generalized rant about referees allegedly trying to influence games during third periods with measurable consistency. Do any of you actually believe this is happening? I do not. I can believe the quality of the officiating is suffering league-wide right now, sure. However, to buy into the notion that certain teams have been targeted by the NHL On Ice Official community is quite the stretch. And the conversation ensued/ensues from there...
Snowmobiler97 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 If the sabres were a consistent and quality team, they would have scored multiple goals and they could have all got penalties and still won
87168 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 It is what it is man. They have to find a way to pull a W even when the odds are stacked against them.
Andrew Amerk Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 Okay, what call exactly are we talking about, really? I suppose we can assume that since this is a Sabres message board, and this was posted after the Panther's game, it must be the Gerbe call. But, really the OP is non-specific here, and begs the reader to assume what he/she may be talking about. Ummm...Toronto doesn't review penalties during the game... He was clearly talking about the questionable Ellis goal, when the refs called Toronto to review and decide if it was a legal goal...
Andrew Amerk Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 Also, I love Gerbe's explanation of the how the penalty came about... The downfall started when Nathan Gerbe headed to the penalty box with 5:19 to go on a questionable tripping call. The forward glided toward the nearest referee for a quick conversation, and the official tacked on an additional two minutes for unsportsmanlike conduct. "I laughed," Gerbe said. "He said, 'Don't laugh at me.' ... I guess you can't laugh or smile about bad penalties."
qwksndmonster Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 if Enroth was in net, the refs would have got all of the calls correctly :clapping: +1 Also, I love Gerbe's explanation of the how the penalty came about... The downfall started when Nathan Gerbe headed to the penalty box with 5:19 to go on a questionable tripping call. The forward glided toward the nearest referee for a quick conversation, and the official tacked on an additional two minutes for unsportsmanlike conduct. "I laughed," Gerbe said. "He said, 'Don't laugh at me.' ... I guess you can't laugh or smile about bad penalties." I love Nathan Gerbe.
nucci Posted October 30, 2011 Report Posted October 30, 2011 As much as I hated Terry Frazier, he would have NEVER given Stafford that penalty after the boarding. Too many, young, corporate faces in the reffing ranks for me this season. Kerry.
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