Enroth is starting to remind me a little of another Sabres goalie...

[LastPommerFan]

/snip/

 

I would still like to see Enroth over Miller in the playoffs, just to see how he would react in those pressure situations, like I said, I don't believe it could hurt any given Miller's track record in those situations.

 

/snip/

 

I really hope we don't get to test this theory.

 

All around, your reasoning seems sound, our disagreement is on the appropriate sample size to judge Miller's "Big Game Mojo". I will hold that choosing a smaller sample size makes the results slanted toward your argument because, as buffalo fans, we tend to remember the choke moments (thanks Scott Norwood). So I offer you these big games saving saves by Miller, stopping these goals kept the Sabres alive in each of these playoff games:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsA0shXNPp8

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akIIVHTHd0o

[HopefulFuture]

Why are we counting the winter classic as a big game? By that definition, there are 82 big games during the regular season.

I emphasized the Winter Classic given its over abundance of coverage for the sport itself. It was an immensily watched game and was entertaining, but with that extended coverage and it's high profile inherently comes additional pressure on the players to perform.

[HopefulFuture]

I really hope we don't get to test this theory.

 

All around, your reasoning seems sound, our disagreement is on the appropriate sample size to judge Miller's "Big Game Mojo". I will hold that choosing a smaller sample size makes the results slanted toward your argument because, as buffalo fans, we tend to remember the choke moments (thanks Scott Norwood). So I offer you these big games saving saves by Miller, stopping these goals kept the Sabres alive in each of these playoff games:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsA0shXNPp8

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akIIVHTHd0o

Thank you LastPommersFan, I am not advocating my opinion to be sound, I am merely stating it and pointing out the why's I formulated it.

And I do agree that the sample size can be adjusted, but it still wouldn't change my opinion of his performance in those games that mattered at the NHL level.

I'd merely like to see if this young kid has what it takes to move the team beyond the next level is all, Miller has had his opportunities with the same continued results, let's try something different with Enroth and see if he rises to the occasion, afterall, isn't it about that big Silver Cup we'd all like to see in a parade in downtown?

[nfreeman]

BTW, let me state for the record that the comparison of Enroth to Dominik is insane.

[LastPommerFan]

BTW, let me state for the record that the comparison of Enroth to Dominik is insane.

 

Let it be noted in the record!

[LastPommerFan]

Thank you LastPommersFan, I am not advocating my opinion to be sound, I am merely stating it and pointing out the why's I formulated it.

And I do agree that the sample size can be adjusted, but it still wouldn't change my opinion of his performance in those games that mattered at the NHL level.

I'd merely like to see if this young kid has what it takes to move the team beyond the next level is all, Miller has had his opportunities with the same continued results, let's try something different with Enroth and see if he rises to the occasion, afterall, isn't it about that big Silver Cup we'd all like to see in a parade in downtown?

 

no 's'

[dEnnis the Menace]

BTW, let me state for the record that the comparison of Enroth to Dominik is insane.

 

I have to agree with you. Is he flashy like Dom was? yeah, he flails a lot...just like Thomas does, just like at least another handful of other goalies do.

 

I think the Versus (or was it RJ and crew) announcers hit the nail on the head. A lot of people remember Dom for the flashy slaves, the flailing, the everywhere at once, and feel that since Miller is a technically sound oriented goalie, and not flashy, they need to call for a change. He does make it look easy some nights. The shutout against Florida, the way he was playing, I knew in the second that he was going to keep the goose egg. He has the ability to steal a game without anyone really noticing (except maybe Briere on that highway robbery, or the Bruins on the other). With Jhonas, during games I feel like he's always one Over committing flail away from allowing a plethora of goals...(it makes sense in my head...probably should leave that thought there)

 

EDIT: and yes, pommerfan (you're not really the last one anymore are you?), there should be an 's' after Cup, as in Silver Cup's', as in multiple chalices of the Stanley variety!

[LastPommerFan]

EDIT: and yes, pommerfan (you're not really the last one anymore are you?), there should be an 's' after Cup, as in Silver Cup's', as in multiple chalices of the Stanley variety!

 

I was, for a while, but I may have to change the name if he keeps this up.

[FolignosJock]

BTW, let me state for the record that the comparison of Enroth to Dominik is insane.

 

 

but he has like 20 games played and like he wins a lot and like he is kinda unorthodox plus like he is exciting how can you not think that???? :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:

[FolignosJock]

I emphasized the Winter Classic given its over abundance of coverage for the sport itself. It was an immensily watched game and was entertaining, but with that extended coverage and it's high profile inherently comes additional pressure on the players to perform.

 

 

 

Hahhaha so a winter classic half way through a season is more important than an olympic game to get in to the gold medal game??? Or lets be honest any game in the olympics???? How about a game against Canada in the olympics you do know that he stopped crosby and that team once in that olympics right??? Or how about the 25 playoff games he has won??? The guy went

5-0-1 in the olympics with a team that wasnt supposed to win more than one, maybe two games. He let in 8 goals in six games.

 

 

Also I dont think Miller is better than Crosby but I think its dumb comparing a center to a goalie anyway.

[dEnnis the Menace]

Hahhaha so a winter classic half way through a season is more important than an olympic game to get in to the gold medal game??? Or lets be honest any game in the olympics???? How about a game against Canada in the olympics you do know that he stopped crosby and that team once in that olympics right??? Or how about the 25 playoff games he has won??? The guy went

5-0-1 in the olympics with a team that wasnt supposed to win more than one, maybe two games. He let in 8 goals in six games.

 

Also I dont think Miller is better than Crosby but I think its dumb comparing a center to a goalie anyway.

 

Of all that I agree on in this post (all of it), this is the most important part.

[FolignosJock]

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/24/examining-ryan-millers-track-record-in-playoff-elimination-games/

 

 

read that and think about your position please

[apuszczalowski]

I emphasized the Winter Classic given its over abundance of coverage for the sport itself. It was an immensily watched game and was entertaining, but with that extended coverage and it's high profile inherently comes additional pressure on the players to perform.

But you are also using a game with no more significance then any other regular season game, played in less then ideal and not normal conditions. He keeps the team in the game and takes it to a shootout where the best player in the game today according to about 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% of anyone who watches hockey, beats him and this means he isn't a big game goalie? You do realise it is a team game, and if one of those other 5 guys on the ice does what they are supposed to do, and scores 1 more goal, the Sabres win that game. In the Olympics, he wins the MVP of the entire tournament playing on the second place team, but he isn't good in big games because he got beat, in OT, again, by the best player in the game?

 

Its not like Millers performances in big games have been like Luongos in the SCF's last year, or they result in blowouts. Most of the games you mention as big games they have been close games, or gone to OT/shootout. The result is not always the fault of the goalie in those cases.

 

Why can't people just realise that the Sabres are in a great position now with one of the better goalie tandems in the league? it always has to be one or the other with Buffalo fans, and its always the backup thats better then the starter. Enroth is good, but theres no reason why they should have to get rid of one or the other right now (or for a while).

 

 

on the topic of Enroth though, one thing I did notice about him is that he seems to be really good at "deadening" (if thats even a real term) the puck when it hits him instead of letting it bounce off of him for a rebound. The pucks seem to hit him and fall almost straight down where he will pounce onto the puck and cover it. This works now for him, but I noticed a bunch of times where he had no idea that the puck was sitting near his legs until the last moment

[HopefulFuture]

But you are also using a game with no more significance then any other regular season game, played in less then ideal and not normal conditions. He keeps the team in the game and takes it to a shootout where the best player in the game today according to about 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% of anyone who watches hockey, beats him and this means he isn't a big game goalie? You do realise it is a team game, and if one of those other 5 guys on the ice does what they are supposed to do, and scores 1 more goal, the Sabres win that game. In the Olympics, he wins the MVP of the entire tournament playing on the second place team, but he isn't good in big games because he got beat, in OT, again, by the best player in the game?

 

Its not like Millers performances in big games have been like Luongos in the SCF's last year, or they result in blowouts. Most of the games you mention as big games they have been close games, or gone to OT/shootout. The result is not always the fault of the goalie in those cases.

 

Why can't people just realise that the Sabres are in a great position now with one of the better goalie tandems in the league? it always has to be one or the other with Buffalo fans, and its always the backup thats better then the starter. Enroth is good, but theres no reason why they should have to get rid of one or the other right now (or for a while).

 

 

on the topic of Enroth though, one thing I did notice about him is that he seems to be really good at "deadening" (if thats even a real term) the puck when it hits him instead of letting it bounce off of him for a rebound. The pucks seem to hit him and fall almost straight down where he will pounce onto the puck and cover it. This works now for him, but I noticed a bunch of times where he had no idea that the puck was sitting near his legs until the last moment

The same response I render to you I gave to LastPommerFan (no 's').

I never intended my original comment and curiousity on whether Enroth would perform more admirably than Miller in high pressure situations to be this in-depth and create such a stir as to have personal attacks on me. Actually, it's nice to see the passion of the fan base, although I'd prefer it from a team prespective as opposed to the individual love of a player prespective, but it's still nice to see.

 

In any event, you are correct that the goalie can only do so much, and some of what transpires is not under their domain to control. However, it must be pointed out, that as of the Boston and subsequently, the Philly series results, Miller's performance was, to some extent, the end result we saw in the final results of a series loss each time. After all, both series were close, a game 6 and a game 7 respectively. And yes, he did perform in some of those games up to and beyond what was expected, but then, when his teammates faltered, I am of the firm conviction that it was up to Miller to carry the day, in each series. Getting them over those "humps" would have significantly added confidence to the ranks and, I'll surmmize, would have propelled them deep into the playoffs in each case. By definition, that is what a leader does.

 

Yes, the Sabres are in a good position when it comes to netminders, I have not advocated trading Miller, I merely stated I would like to see how Enroth would perform in those high intensity/high pressure or must win situations given Miller's track record.

 

As for the 99.99999999999% on 1 vs 1 performance success rates you speak of. Miller has the ability to take on Crosby, or any other shooter 1 vs 1 and acheive success. It's merely a matter of getting it done, and no, I don't believe he'd stop every break away/shootout situation, but that was my point from my original opinion on the OP........

 

Maybe Enroth does.............we won't know unless we see him in those situations........

[HopefulFuture]

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/24/examining-ryan-millers-track-record-in-playoff-elimination-games/

 

 

read that and think about your position please

Read it, and my position hasn't changed one bit.

Sorry, but my convictions are firm.

[FolignosJock]

The same response I render to you I gave to LastPommerFan (no 's').

I never intended my original comment and curiousity on whether Enroth would perform more admirably than Miller in high pressure situations to be this in-depth and create such a stir as to have personal attacks on me. Actually, it's nice to see the passion of the fan base, although I'd prefer it from a team prespective as opposed to the individual love of a player prespective, but it's still nice to see.

 

In any event, you are correct that the goalie can only do so much, and some of what transpires is not under their domain to control. However, it must be pointed out, that as of the Boston and subsequently, the Philly series results, Miller's performance was, to some extent, the end result we saw in the final results of a series loss each time. After all, both series were close, a game 6 and a game 7 respectively. And yes, he did perform in some of those games up to and beyond what was expected, but then, when his teammates faltered, I am of the firm conviction that it was up to Miller to carry the day, in each series. Getting them over those "humps" would have significantly added confidence to the ranks and, I'll surmmize, would have propelled them deep into the playoffs in each case. By definition, that is what a leader does.

 

Yes, the Sabres are in a good position when it comes to netminders, I have not advocated trading Miller, I merely stated I would like to see how Enroth would perform in those high intensity/high pressure or must win situations given Miller's track record.

 

As for the 99.99999999999% on 1 vs 1 performance success rates you speak of. Miller has the ability to take on Crosby, or any other shooter 1 vs 1 and acheive success. It's merely a matter of getting it done, and no, I don't believe he'd stop every break away/shootout situation, but that was my point from my original opinion on the OP........

 

Maybe Enroth does.............we won't know unless we see him in those situations........

 

 

You still havent read the article I posted obviously

[james duncan]

But you are also using a game with no more significance then any other regular season game, played in less then ideal and not normal conditions. He keeps the team in the game and takes it to a shootout where the best player in the game today according to about 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% of anyone who watches hockey, beats him and this means he isn't a big game goalie? You do realise it is a team game, and if one of those other 5 guys on the ice does what they are supposed to do, and scores 1 more goal, the Sabres win that game. In the Olympics, he wins the MVP of the entire tournament playing on the second place team, but he isn't good in big games because he got beat, in OT, again, by the best player in the game?

 

Its not like Millers performances in big games have been like Luongos in the SCF's last year, or they result in blowouts. Most of the games you mention as big games they have been close games, or gone to OT/shootout. The result is not always the fault of the goalie in those cases.

 

Why can't people just realise that the Sabres are in a great position now with one of the better goalie tandems in the league? it always has to be one or the other with Buffalo fans, and its always the backup thats better then the starter. Enroth is good, but theres no reason why they should have to get rid of one or the other right now (or for a while).

 

 

on the topic of Enroth though, one thing I did notice about him is that he seems to be really good at "deadening" (if thats even a real term) the puck when it hits him instead of letting it bounce off of him for a rebound. The pucks seem to hit him and fall almost straight down where he will pounce onto the puck and cover it. This works now for him, but I noticed a bunch of times where he had no idea that the puck was sitting near his legs until the last moment

Never. We can only handle having one goalie at a time to build up and then rip apart...you've been on this board long enough to know this. There is an order to this...Connolly out/Leino in. See how it works?

[26CornerBlitz]

I was thinking edwards or roger the dodger, maybe its the 1 on his back but also his "style' resembles crozier

 

I was thinking of Roger Crozier too.

[FolignosJock]

Read it, and my position hasn't changed one bit.

Sorry, but my convictions are firm.

 

 

So a winning record in the exact type of games you are talking about doesnt make you change ur mind... You are talking about BIG SERIES CLINCHING GAMES and how miller doesnt show up right? Yet he has won more than he has lost so I guess I dont see where you are coming from. You said that its Millers job to continually pick up a team that has less talent than the team they are playing and carry them yet that article shows that he has done that in situations. So you pretty much put all parts of the blame on Miller? That just doesnt make sense. Only the best goalies win more elimination games than they lose I would bet there are less than 5 currently in the league. That is being a big game goaltender Miller does it year in and year out so i really think your view is misguided. You can look up my posts from last year I am not some die hard Miller fan I advocated for Enroth to continue playing if Miller came back and looked shaky at the end of last year. I got blasted on here for saying that but i thought the best thing to do was ride the hot hand. But to just do it on a whim of "maybe the backup is better in big games cuz i dont think that our star goalie can come through" is absolutely ridiculous.

[HopefulFuture]

You still havent read the article I posted obviously

Obviously,,,,,

I never read James O'Brien.......

 

And I quote on his "UPDATE"

"Update: That 7-4 record comes with little-to-no low moments. Even in games the Sabres lost, Miller never allowed more than four goals. No doubt about it, he’s a trustworthy goalkeeper in big games." unquote

 

Really?

REALLY?

 

He's trustworthy in big games?

 

This made me chuckle a bit to be honest, but you keep on keepin on........

[HopefulFuture]

Never. We can only handle having one goalie at a time to build up and then rip apart...you've been on this board long enough to know this. There is an order to this...Connolly out/Leino in. See how it works?

WOW!!!

 

Lay off the Caffiene.

Stating that I'd like to see if Enroth can handle those high pressure moments where, clearly Miller falls short is getting so skewed in this thread that the humor has deflated itself out......

 

Talk about extremism......

Your right.....just....

 

WOW!

[FolignosJock]

Obviously,,,,,

I never read James O'Brien.......

 

And I quote on his "UPDATE"

"Update: That 7-4 record comes with little-to-no low moments. Even in games the Sabres lost, Miller never allowed more than four goals. No doubt about it, he’s a trustworthy goalkeeper in big games." unquote

 

Really?

REALLY?

 

He's trustworthy in big games?

 

This made me chuckle a bit to be honest, but you keep on keepin on........

 

 

?? what made you chuckle about that? The article proved that he was trustworthy in big games...

[thesportsbuff]

WOW!!!

 

Lay off the Caffiene.

Stating that I'd like to see if Enroth can handle those high pressure moments where, clearly Miller falls short is getting so skewed in this thread that the humor has deflated itself out......

 

Talk about extremism......

Your right.....just....

 

WOW!

 

Clearly Miller falls short. :lol: :death: :doh:

[LastPommerFan]

Read it, and my position hasn't changed one bit.

Sorry, but my convictions are firm.

 

You present your case well, and avoided falling into the name-calling traps that were laid out for you. I applaud your argument, I disagree with your definitions and assessment, but concur with your (username appropriate) hope that we have 2 elite goalies on this team, one that is, and one that will be. Jhonas is also 8 years younger than Miller. In 3-4 years, I could see an Enroth reaching his prime competing with an aging Ryan Miller for starts. Goalies take a lot longer to develop fully, Miller played 5 years after winning the Hobey Baker before becoming the Sabres lone starter. Tim Thomas was like 58 years old or something when he finally figured it out.

[HopefulFuture]

You present your case well, and avoided falling into the name-calling traps that were laid out for you. I applaud your argument, I disagree with your definitions and assessment, but concur with your (username appropriate) hope that we have 2 elite goalies on this team, one that is, and one that will be. Jhonas is also 8 years younger than Miller. In 3-4 years, I could see an Enroth reaching his prime competing with an aging Ryan Miller for starts. Goalies take a lot longer to develop fully, Miller played 5 years after winning the Hobey Baker before becoming the Sabres lone starter. Tim Thomas was like 58 years old or something when he finally figured it out.

Thank you LastPommerFan,

I'll continue to be hopeful, especially given the atmosphere change with ownership.

I'd like to think that no matter which netminder is between the pipes, we acheive success.

 

On a parting note, yes, I believe early on, Enroth does remind me of Hasek, only somewhat in his style of play, but more so in his demeanor towards the game and the way he carries himself. And ya know something......I like it a little....well....a little more than just a little to be honest with you.

So here's to the future........