Leino asked to go back to wing....

[darksabre]

[/b]

I hate the idea of this move. Possibly hurting Vanek and Pominville is a big risk. Why disrupt the only thing working offensively with any consistency. Not to mention any adverse effect it could have on Adam. You have three forwards playing well together with confidence. Throwing a train-wreck like Leino in the middle of that line can end up doing more harm than good.

 

What harm, we lose another game because the only line scoring is Vanek and Pommers anyway? Either it doesn't work and we lose, or it does work and we don't lose. How is that a gamble you don't take?

[Snowmobiler97]

What harm, we lose another game because the only line scoring is Vanek and Pommers anyway? Either it doesn't work and we lose, or it does work and we don't lose. How is that a gamble you don't take?

Because, one game out of their groove, means they lose the next scrambling to get back to where they were. Terrible move

[deluca67]

Because, one game out of their groove, means they lose the next scrambling to get back to where they were. Terrible move

Exactly! Goal scorers are streaky by nature. You ride it out. If they slow down then maybe mix things up.

[darksabre]

Because, one game out of their groove, means they lose the next scrambling to get back to where they were. Terrible move

 

How does removing them from one another affect their chemistry negatively? Put them back together and they should operate no different. You don't lose that connection with a player after one game. It's not some magical essence that disappears forever if you stop using it. If that was how it worked, players would never be able to come back after injuries or work on lines with other players.

 

Taking Adam away from Vanek and Pommers doesn't immediately write that line off. That's legitimately insane.

[dEnnis the Menace]

How does removing them from one another affect their chemistry negatively? Put them back together and they should operate no different. You don't lose that connection with a player after one game. It's not some magical essence that disappears forever if you stop using it. If that was how it worked, players would never be able to come back after injuries or work on lines with other players.

 

Taking Adam away from Vanek and Pommers doesn't immediately write that line off. That's legitimately insane.

 

my thoughts exactly :thumbsup:

[Weave]

Anyone else wondering how many mis-used "literally" and "legitimately" we are going to see in one week? Someone wanna put an over/under on it?

 

Dwight?

 

Dwight?

 

Bueller?

[Eleven]

[/b]

I hate the idea of this move. Possibly hurting Vanek and Pominville is a big risk. Why disrupt the only thing working offensively with any consistency. Not to mention any adverse effect it could have on Adam. You have three forwards playing well together with confidence. Throwing a train-wreck like Leino in the middle of that line can end up doing more harm than good.

 

And that's the other side of the Labatt/nfreeman argument (and it's the side I agree with, too). But there are serious merits to both points. I guess we'll see. I'll still pull for them on Wednesday, that much is certain.

[LGR4GM]

To add to your current argument some super extrapolated numbers that are awesome but unrealistic. If the following players continued at their current pace:

 

Pomminstein's projected 82 game total : 41g / 74a = 115pts

 

Vanek's projected 82 game total: 65g / 57a = 122pts

 

Adam's projected 82 game total: 25g / 49a = 74pts

 

Now after 10 games I think that Leino could disrupt this current pace... Adam is more physical and I think that has helped. Vanek seems to have finally hit that new level that we have been waiting for, and Pommers has always been a steady 65pt guy. So lets see if Leino can learn from this line and start producing over his current pace. Who knows maybe a game with them will help... idk

 

Leino: 8g / 9a = 16pts (and I was generous and rounded up)

[wjag]

After reading all the posts in this thread, I think I side with those that say leave the top line alone. Leino will come around. He surely will. In fact, we'll eventually be talking about how good the Roy Leino and Stafford line is and what happened to the top line.

[qwksndmonster]

I'm not really sure where I stand. I think I like moving Leino to the top line, as that would be a good calculated risk. If it's horrible, we can just throw Adam back on the top line no harm done. As for the "scorers are streaky" argument, the chemistry between Pommer and Vanek is there... I don't know how two or three bad games could change that.

[nfreeman]

[/b]

I hate the idea of this move. Possibly hurting Vanek and Pominville is a big risk. Why disrupt the only thing working offensively with any consistency. Not to mention any adverse effect it could have on Adam. You have three forwards playing well together with confidence. Throwing a train-wreck like Leino in the middle of that line can end up doing more harm than good.

This is a very reasonable opinion. However, if it doesn't work after a couple of games they can go back to Adam. If Vanek and Pommer aren't strong enough to overcome a disruption like losing Adam as their center for a couple of games then this team isn't going anywhere anyway.

[spndnchz]

Is Adam really the key here? yeah he's doing well, but how much do Vanek and Pommers really need him? I don't recall many of Vanek's goals or Pommers assists being with Adam.

 

The keys to that line are Van and Pommers. I'm willing to experiment.

[TheMatrix31]

Count me in on the "leave it alone, let things gel" camp. Can't constantly switch things around. How can anyone expect consistency and performance out of lines that are constantly changing?

[Weave]

Is Adam really the key here? yeah he's doing well, but how much do Vanek and Pommers really need him? I don't recall many of Vanek's goals or Pommers assists being with Adam.

 

The keys to that line are Van and Pommers. I'm willing to experiment.

 

This is a valid point. My only question would be, how much of Pommer and Vanek's success are because of Adam drawing attention around the net, leaving the other two with more room? And I don't know the answer to that question. I suppose we'll see when Leino is inserted into that line during a game.

 

If this combo doesn't work, how long until we see Boyes between these two? He's already showing some signs of working well with them on the PP.

[spndnchz]

Count me in on the "leave it alone, let things gel" camp. Can't constantly switch things around. How can anyone expect consistency and performance out of lines that are constantly changing?

 

While I believe in this, it's still early.

 

Looking at the stats:

 

Vanek has 15 pts

Pommers has 14 points

 

Of those 29 points, Adam was involved in getting them 8pts total. 21 points did not include Adam.

 

Again, he's working out well, but it's got a lot more to do with VANEK and POMMERS.

[spndnchz]

This is a valid point. My only question would be, how much of Pommer and Vanek's success are because of Adam drawing attention around the net, leaving the other two with more room? And I don't know the answer to that question. I suppose we'll see when Leino is inserted into that line during a game.

 

If this combo doesn't work, how long until we see Boyes between these two? He's already showing some signs of working well with them on the PP.

 

This I like - Boyes with Van and Pommer on the power play.

[Snowmobiler97]

This I like - Boyes with Van and Pommer on the power play.

Agreed

[spndnchz]

And for all the ice time Gerbe-Goose and Kaleta get (granted some on the PK) I would expect more than 9 pts.

[darksabre]

Count me in on the "leave it alone, let things gel" camp. Can't constantly switch things around. How can anyone expect consistency and performance out of lines that are constantly changing?

 

Is one good line the kind of consistency we really want?

[deluca67]

While I believe in this, it's still early.

 

Looking at the stats:

 

Vanek has 15 pts

Pommers has 14 points

 

Of those 29 points, Adam was involved in getting them 8pts total. 21 points did not include Adam.

 

Again, he's working out well, but it's got a lot more to do with VANEK and POMMERS.

Adam is playing with a great deal of confidence and has developed a chemistry with Vanek and Pominville. There is a level of comfort there. The Sabres at this point have a real top line that is producing at a rate comparable with the best lines in hockey. Vanek - Adam - Pominville should be printed on the line-up cards until they go cold.

 

I think as Adam matures the combination can only get better. Lieno on the other hand hasn't shown anything over the first ten games and hasn't earned an opportunity to replace Adam on the top line. This move seems like a move to justify a contract and not a move to make the team better. I thought that mentality was gone in "hockey heaven."

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Is Adam really the key here? yeah he's doing well, but how much do Vanek and Pommers really need him? I don't recall many of Vanek's goals or Pommers assists being with Adam.

 

The keys to that line are Van and Pommers. I'm willing to experiment.

 

Good to hear. Now turn off your cellphone, put on this blindfold, and chew this half-a-pack of wintergreen Lifesavers....just chew though....

[X. Benedict]

A team with only one line scoring is usually a team that loses. It is nice to see indiv stat lines. But it is more important to get a second line scoring to win games.

[LabattBlue]

And for all the ice time Gerbe-Goose and Kaleta get (granted some on the PK) I would expect more than 9 pts.

My Lindy bashing will come to the surface, but this is where I get pissed off about rolling 4 lines. He has to be willing to give his scorers more ice time. I'm not saying the bottom 6 deserves Andrew Peters ice time, but they should not be anywhere near the same number of ES shift as guys like Pominville, Vanek, Stafford, Roy, etc...

[...]

Adam is playing with a great deal of confidence and has developed a chemistry with Vanek and Pominville. There is a level of comfort there. The Sabres at this point have a real top line that is producing at a rate comparable with the best lines in hockey. Vanek - Adam - Pominville should be printed on the line-up cards until they go cold.

 

I think as Adam matures the combination can only get better. Lieno on the other hand hasn't shown anything over the first ten games and hasn't earned an opportunity to replace Adam on the top line. This move seems like a move to justify a contract and not a move to make the team better. I thought that mentality was gone in "hockey heaven."

 

 

I'm inclined to think this way superficially, but Adam has been a floater here and there. And he's learning some bad habits from Vanek, like coasting to get off the ice after a shift. It probably wouldn't hurt him to play with a less-productive line to see what it's like to struggle. Right now Vanek and Pommers are his security blanket. Which is not to say I think his game is poor, but is he a #1 center?

 

So, I think for a few games, I guess I can accept the experiment, especially since there's no way Ruff will keep the original lines together right now. At least we will see fully and completely what we have in Leino - if he does no better than Adam between Vanek and Pominville, then the Sabres made a pretty big mistake.

 

Conversely, we'll see what we have in Adam as well.

[Weave]

And for all the ice time Gerbe-Goose and Kaleta get (granted some on the PK) I would expect more than 9 pts.

 

That projects out to about 74pts for the season. Goose averages less than 30pts per season and even if Kaleta plays a full season he projects out to even less than that so I'd say they are above their expected point production right now. There just isn't enough skill on that line to expect more points. It isn't who they are. (I think Gerbe is capable of more, but he'll need more skilled linemates to bring it out)