... Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 I'm of two minds on this. First, some context: “Actually, Ville had mentioned that he’d like to go to the wing, so it’s funny how it works,” explained Ruff. “You’d like to find a line and keep them together, that would be the thing that you would hope most. I’d like to see Roy, Leino and Stafford play together for a while and gain some chemistry. I think that’s the most important part. It isn’t position to position, it’s leaving three individuals together for a while and they develop some chemistry.” ...and that's how it was. Seems to me that Ruff wasn't ready to let Leino play the wing. Ruff seems to imply that he was going to try and keep the lines together as much as possible (assuming he means on paper, before he starts swapping players during games). This is why I'm ambivalent - I agree that it's way too soon to let Leino "give up" on the center position and all of the baggage that comes with that decision, but seeing as there is a hole now at the wing, I am intrigued by the prospect of a Leino, Roy, Stafford line. Stafford has been more of a beast so far this season, and has stepped up his game - although I do agree he still lacks a little consistency. Roy is crafty to a certain extent, and certainly is motivated by scoring goals. So, let Leino set them up from the wing. This way Roy is taking the face-offs, which is not a specialty of Leino's, apparently. I mean, that, on paper, seems like an ideal line. I have no problem with Hecht centering the third line. The first and fourth lines remain unchanged. This is no more of a "risk" than the original lines were/are - and that is in no way a compliment to DR. Eh, let's see how it works out I guess, there is no choice right now. I'd like to see Weber out there to see what he does, and use that to help pick a D-man to trade away with one of the forwards and shop for an extra piece if Adam doesn't clean up his game some more.
Bullwinkle Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 I think my main concern on this topic is the reference to Leino "whining". I don't know if that's actually true - I certainly hope not - but if it is, we're in worse trouble than anyone thought when we signed him. No team benefits from having a whiner on board. As far as his playing is concerned, I've voiced my opinion on another thread. But if he's happier at wing, so be it. I don't think management signed him with the idea that he can only play center and nothing else. And if he moves to wing, that opens up the center question again. If we want to "home grow" one like Adam, I will tell you that it will be longer than 3 years before we're in the Cup finals...and Adam may not ever become a true nr. 1 center. Trading seems to be the only option if we're on the fast track.
RazielSabre Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 I think leino should kill himself or at least go back to trashy Philly, it seems every other team knows exactly when to dump off these players, (leino) (erhoff). And we are dumb enough to take em. I bow to your knowledge oh holy one.
RazielSabre Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 They're probably just laughing at Jaromir Jagr. If you were in that locker room would you not just put a huge poster of Jagr's Mullet somewhere?
RazielSabre Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 I'm of two minds on this. First, some context: “Actually, Ville had mentioned that he’d like to go to the wing, so it’s funny how it works,” explained Ruff. “You’d like to find a line and keep them together, that would be the thing that you would hope most. I’d like to see Roy, Leino and Stafford play together for a while and gain some chemistry. I think that’s the most important part. It isn’t position to position, it’s leaving three individuals together for a while and they develop some chemistry.” ...and that's how it was. Seems to me that Ruff wasn't ready to let Leino play the wing. Ruff seems to imply that he was going to try and keep the lines together as much as possible (assuming he means on paper, before he starts swapping players during games). This is why I'm ambivalent - I agree that it's way too soon to let Leino "give up" on the center position and all of the baggage that comes with that decision, but seeing as there is a hole now at the wing, I am intrigued by the prospect of a Leino, Roy, Stafford line. Stafford has been more of a beast so far this season, and has stepped up his game - although I do agree he still lacks a little consistency. Roy is crafty to a certain extent, and certainly is motivated by scoring goals. So, let Leino set them up from the wing. This way Roy is taking the face-offs, which is not a specialty of Leino's, apparently. I mean, that, on paper, seems like an ideal line. I have no problem with Hecht centering the third line. The first and fourth lines remain unchanged. This is no more of a "risk" than the original lines were/are - and that is in no way a compliment to DR. Eh, let's see how it works out I guess, there is no choice right now. I'd like to see Weber out there to see what he does, and use that to help pick a D-man to trade away with one of the forwards and shop for an extra piece if Adam doesn't clean up his game some more. :clapping: :clapping: Leino Roy Stafford - I like the look of that, until we get Ennis back. Gerbe Hecht/Gausted Boyes (?) Mccormick Ellis Kaleta (?) People please remember it's still October, it will take about 30 games at least for all the pieces to fit and Ruff loves to play with lines. I mean forward/defensive lines. I am in no way accusing Ruff of drug abuse! :ph34r: :D
wjag Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 They're probably just laughing at Jaromir Jagr. 2G 1A tonight.. Thinking Philly is smiling, not laughing. Mike Richards, who?
RazielSabre Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 I think my main concern on this topic is the reference to Leino "whining". I don't know if that's actually true - I certainly hope not - but if it is, we're in worse trouble than anyone thought when we signed him. No team benefits from having a whiner on board. As far as his playing is concerned, I've voiced my opinion on another thread. But if he's happier at wing, so be it. I don't think management signed him with the idea that he can only play center and nothing else. And if he moves to wing, that opens up the center question again. If we want to "home grow" one like Adam, I will tell you that it will be longer than 3 years before we're in the Cup finals...and Adam may not ever become a true nr. 1 center. Trading seems to be the only option if we're on the fast track. If the whining is what I think they are referring to he was pissed at his own play and said it's been a tougher change than he thought, new system, new team and new position. Sounded to be as if he expected everything to fit into place, which was stupid if true.
deluca67 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 :clapping: :clapping: Leino Roy Stafford - I like the look of that, until we get Ennis back. Gerbe Hecht/Gausted Boyes (?) Mccormick Ellis Kaleta (?) People please remember it's still October, it will take about 30 games at least for all the pieces to fit and Ruff loves to play with lines. I mean forward/defensive lines. I am in no way accusing Ruff of drug abuse! :ph34r: :D 30 games seems like such an arbitrary number. It could be 80 games or not at all. IMO, some fans and the Sabres front office are guilty of having too high of expectations for a 28 year old player that has only shown a few flashes during his NHL career. It's not a matter of lines coming together, they are 5-2, it's the expectation of a third line, closer to fourth line, player of raising his game to a higher level than he is capable of and doing it on a consistent basis.
RazielSabre Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 30 games seems like such an arbitrary number. It could be 80 games or not at all. IMO, some fans and the Sabres front office are guilty of having too high of expectations for a 28 year old player that has only shown a few flashes during his NHL career. It's not a matter of lines coming together, they are 5-2, it's the expectation of a third line, closer to fourth line, player of raising his game to a higher level than he is capable of and doing it on a consistent basis. It is a guess, my point is we do not know what to expect (I'm guessing 40-60 points, guessing) or how long it will take, so beating the guy up seems like a 'we don't have connelly, bitch about Leino instead' reaction. Just the way I feel.
Patty16 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 Before coming to Buffalo Leino was a 0.48 ppg player. We paid him based on one good season and a really good playoff performance. We also paid him because he holds onto the puck. Yes, that a big skill and something the Sabres didnt have. We are getting from Leino exactly what a good portion of the people on this board thought we were getting when we signed him. A decent player who isnt gonna score a ton of points. A lot of us were also concerned about signing him as a center since he hasnt played that position with any frequency in the NHL. We were told its ok because he used to play center in Finland......well were not in Finland anymore Todo. He doesnt need to "learn" anything. I think some on here need to learn a little bit more themselves. They want Leino to control the puck in the zone, thats when he's been at his best in the NHL.
LabattBlue Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 I'm not saying he can't raise his game to another level, but Leino may end up being nothing more than a slightly better offensive player/slightly worse defensive player than Hecht, who ends up being overpaid, and is here for a contract term that is too long in number of years.
LastPommerFan Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 The way the Sabres cycle in zone, the only thing this really changes is who takes the face-offs. Based on the numbers, I'm ok with that.
spndnchz Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 The way the Sabres cycle in zone, the only thing this really changes is who takes the face-offs. Based on the numbers, I'm ok with that. And it also leaves you with 2 decent centers.
Patty16 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 I'm not saying he can't raise his game to another level, but Leino may end up being nothing more than a slightly better offensive player/slightly worse defensive player than Hecht, who ends up being overpaid, and is here for a contract term that is too long in number of years. Exactly. And it also leaves you with 2 decent centers. Perhaps. Leino is showing his rust at center. For example he is winning about 36% of his faceoffs. He is also having a tough time finding his scoring touch. As of right now, i wouldnt consider him a decent center. I dont have high expectations for him. He can control the puck but isnt a dynamic player. It is still early and he will need some more time before we can really rag on him like we do to other players.
X. Benedict Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 30 games seems like such an arbitrary number. It could be 80 games or not at all. IMO, some fans and the Sabres front office are guilty of having too high of expectations for a 28 year old player that has only shown a few flashes during his NHL career. It's not a matter of lines coming together, they are 5-2, it's the expectation of a third line, closer to fourth line, player of raising his game to a higher level than he is capable of and doing it on a consistent basis. It is all about linewates IMO. Leino can hold the puck in the zone and does. Ennis and Boyes have failed to get inside. Leino plays one shift with Pominville. Pominville gets inside. Goal. What did you think about that?
carpandean Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 A lot of us were also concerned about signing him as a center since he hasnt played that position with any frequency in the NHL. We were told its ok because he used to play center in Finland......well were not in Finland anymore Todo. And, as I pointed out at the time of the signing, his best year in Finland* was when he went to a new team and the coach converted him to a winger. I had a quote at the time where the coach credited much of Ville's success that year to being moved to the wing. (* to be fair, also his last season, so some improvement could have been due to growth/experience.)
shrader Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 I think my main concern on this topic is the reference to Leino "whining". I don't know if that's actually true - I certainly hope not - but if it is, we're in worse trouble than anyone thought when we signed him. No team benefits from having a whiner on board. As far as his playing is concerned, I've voiced my opinion on another thread. But if he's happier at wing, so be it. I don't think management signed him with the idea that he can only play center and nothing else. And if he moves to wing, that opens up the center question again. If we want to "home grow" one like Adam, I will tell you that it will be longer than 3 years before we're in the Cup finals...and Adam may not ever become a true nr. 1 center. Trading seems to be the only option if we're on the fast track. Maybe I haven't read the right things, but each time I've seen him quoted so far, I like what he's saying. The quotes were along the lines of "I'm not happy with how I'm playing and I need to fix that". It all sounded like exactly what you would want a player to say.
LastPommerFan Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 And it also leaves you with 2 decent centers. I didn't mean to insue we don't have a problem on the dot, I just mean moving him to wing doesn't change very much in our offensive zone. He's still going to skate with the puck. It's what he does.
frissonic Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 I think my main concern on this topic is the reference to Leino "whining". I don't know if that's actually true - I certainly hope not - but if it is, we're in worse trouble than anyone thought when we signed him. No team benefits from having a whiner on board. As far as his playing is concerned, I've voiced my opinion on another thread. But if he's happier at wing, so be it. I don't think management signed him with the idea that he can only play center and nothing else. And if he moves to wing, that opens up the center question again. If we want to "home grow" one like Adam, I will tell you that it will be longer than 3 years before we're in the Cup finals...and Adam may not ever become a true nr. 1 center. Trading seems to be the only option if we're on the fast track. This. I believe it was DR and/or LR who indicated that the reason they went after Leino was his raw talent in the playoffs last year ... at *wing*. Might he be able to play center? Yah, possibly. He had played the position before, so why not give it a go? I think people misconstrue "whining" for "hey, coach ... listen, I'm not all that secure playing this position just yet. Could we try moving me back to wing and see what happens? Just as a "what the hell" move and see if anything comes of it?" Lindy isn't going to be pushed around, much less by someone who's been in blue and gold for about 4 months. Someone who comes to him with a legitimate idea, minus whining and foot-stomping ... my guess is that it was an idea Ruff had already been kicking around, but when Leino approached him about it, he thought, "What the hell. Why not see if we can get this kid being more productive than stick-handling for 5 minutes at a time." As an aside, head colds suck ass. That is all.
RazielSabre Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 It is all about linewates IMO. Leino can hold the puck in the zone and does. Ennis and Boyes have failed to get inside. Leino plays one shift with Pominville. Pominville gets inside. Goal. What did you think about that? +1. Adam won't be on the 1st line forever. We'll see what happens when Ruff plays again. We have enough options.
That Aud Smell Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 It is all about linewates IMO. Leino can hold the puck in the zone and does. Ennis and Boyes have failed to get inside. Leino plays one shift with Pominville. Pominville gets inside. Goal. What did you think about that? This. I believe it was DR and/or LR who indicated that the reason they went after Leino was his raw talent in the playoffs last year ... at *wing*. Might he be able to play center? Yah, possibly. He had played the position before, so why not give it a go? I think people misconstrue "whining" for "hey, coach ... listen, I'm not all that secure playing this position just yet. Could we try moving me back to wing and see what happens? Just as a "what the hell" move and see if anything comes of it?" Lindy isn't going to be pushed around, much less by someone who's been in blue and gold for about 4 months. Someone who comes to him with a legitimate idea, minus whining and foot-stomping ... my guess is that it was an idea Ruff had already been kicking around, but when Leino approached him about it, he thought, "What the hell. Why not see if we can get this kid being more productive than stick-handling for 5 minutes at a time." +1. Adam won't be on the 1st line forever. We'll see what happens when Ruff plays again. We have enough options. man - good stuff here. may the sabres play as well tonight as this board is talking today.
frissonic Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 man - good stuff here. may the sabres play as well tonight as this board is talking today. the hope is that our collective hockey chi will emanate from whatever server SDS hosts this stuff on, all the way to the FNC, and kick the bolts' collective ass. after that smack-down in tampa, it's retribution time in buffalo. (for all you spiritualism-type people, did i get that right? 'chi'? we mormons aren't exactly hip to zen buddhism terms ...)
SwampD Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 the hope is that our collective hockey chi will emanate from whatever server SDS hosts this stuff on, all the way to the FNC, and kick the bolts' collective ass. after that smack-down in tampa, it's retribution time in buffalo. (for all you spiritualism-type people, did i get that right? 'chi'? we mormons aren't exactly hip to zen buddhism terms ...) To put it more simply, you want Buffalo's Feng to really Shui tonight.
frissonic Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 To put it more simply, you want Buffalo's Feng to really Shui tonight. okay, we may not be hip to zen buddhism terms, but we do grasp the basic fundamentals of re-arranging furniture. :)
korab rules Posted October 25, 2011 Report Posted October 25, 2011 To put it more simply, you want Buffalo's Feng to really Shui tonight. No - we want our Wangs to really Chung tonight.
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