nfreeman Posted September 30, 2011 Report Posted September 30, 2011 Kaleta is Sean Avery without the Attention ###### Syndrome and less offensive upside. He's a 4th liner, and 2nd unit PK alternate. Very repalceable on the roster. Oh, now you're in trouble. I vehemently disagree. Did you notice the "vehemently?" As for Sean Avery -- living in NYC, I see a fair amount of the Rangers, and I will state for the record that on many nights Avery is their most effective forward. Tortorella benched him a couple of years ago in the playoffs when they were leading a series, and they promptly gave the series away. I find him as annoying as anyone else does, but he is a valuable piece. There's a reason he's been able to stick in the NHL for 10 years. I think Kaleta can do the same.
thesportsbuff Posted September 30, 2011 Report Posted September 30, 2011 The offensive side of Kaleta's game is underrated. I mean, he's no 20 goal scorer, but that is a good line and they'll score some dirty goals. I donno if Boyes will score any goals.
Weave Posted September 30, 2011 Report Posted September 30, 2011 Oh, now you're in trouble. I vehemently disagree. Did you notice the "vehemently?" I'm not afraid. :D As for Sean Avery -- living in NYC, I see a fair amount of the Rangers, and I will state for the record that on many nights Avery is their most effective forward. Tortorella benched him a couple of years ago in the playoffs when they were leading a series, and they promptly gave the series away. I find him as annoying as anyone else does, but he is a valuable piece. There's a reason he's been able to stick in the NHL for 10 years. I think Kaleta can do the same. And he's struggling for a roster spot now that his head is up his posterior again. He doesn't have the tools to do it with ablity and he has more ability than Kaleta. Kaleta doesn't have the head problem, but he's got an I-can't-stay-healthy-enough-for-my-teammates-to-depend-on-me problem. And frankly, Avery is a better player, as I said above.
Weave Posted September 30, 2011 Report Posted September 30, 2011 The offensive side of Kaleta's game is underrated. I mean, he's no 20 goal scorer, but that is a good line and they'll score some dirty goals. I donno if Boyes will score any goals. Underrated? Have you seen the numbers he puts up? There isn't much to rate. That's why he plays on a 4th line. As he should.
Derrico Posted September 30, 2011 Report Posted September 30, 2011 Another possible advantage of having Boyes on the fourth line is motivation. If this guy is capable of returning to his old form, there's nothing like fourth line duty to motivate him - excepting of course, the press box. I would think being in a contract year would be more than enough motivation.
james duncan Posted September 30, 2011 Report Posted September 30, 2011 Gerbe, Gaustad and Kaleta makes sense on a ton of different levels. I honestly have no idea why ANYONE wants to see Hecht centering ANY line. I never want to see it again. As for Kaleta over Boyes, these three apparently busted their butts working with eachother all summer. Bull is right--if this doesn't motivate Boyes (who was ready to have a breakthrough in the playoff, until, well, the ployoff happened) nothing will. This is vintage Ruff. I thought Gaustad was the best center the Sabres put on the ice in the playoffs. And his pairing with Gerbe was terrific. I think this line will give other teams fits and pose many matchup problems. It will be an irritating line to play against and Kaleta is quick enough to skate with Gerbe. Sure enough the lines will change, often and quicky. But I have zero problems with Ruff starting this as his third line.
thesportsbuff Posted September 30, 2011 Report Posted September 30, 2011 Underrated? Have you seen the numbers he puts up? There isn't much to rate. That's why he plays on a 4th line. As he should. Apparently you don't understand the meaning of underrated. "Look at the numbers he puts up." ... Yeah, that's why he's under rated, because people look at his points and assume he's nothing more than a goon. For example: right now, you're rating him as a fourth line player. Ruff is using him on the third line. Since Ruff has spent 5 years coaching the guy, I think it's safe to say he has a better handle of Kaleta's capabilities than you do. You're underrating him. Furthermore, if Kaleta stays healthy, I bet he scores more goals this year than: Brad Boyes Paul Gaustad Jochen Hecht Cody McCormick and Kotalik if his call-ups count
spndnchz Posted September 30, 2011 Report Posted September 30, 2011 Apparently you don't understand the meaning of underrated. "Look at the numbers he puts up." ... Yeah, that's why he's under rated, because people look at his points and assume he's nothing more than a goon. For example: right now, you're rating him as a fourth line player. Ruff is using him on the third line. Since Ruff has spent 5 years coaching the guy, I think it's safe to say he has a better handle of Kaleta's capabilities than you do. You're underrating him. Furthermore, if Kaleta stays healthy, I bet he scores more goals this year than: Brad Boyes Paul Gaustad Jochen Hecht Cody McCormick and Kotalik if his call-ups count More than Connolly?
thesportsbuff Posted September 30, 2011 Report Posted September 30, 2011 More than Connolly? Doubtful, but possible. Goal wise. TC will have double or triple his assists though.
Weave Posted September 30, 2011 Report Posted September 30, 2011 Apparently you don't understand the meaning of underrated. "Look at the numbers he puts up." ... Yeah, that's why he's under rated, because people look at his points and assume he's nothing more than a goon. For example: right now, you're rating him as a fourth line player. Ruff is using him on the third line. Since Ruff has spent 5 years coaching the guy, I think it's safe to say he has a better handle of Kaleta's capabilities than you do. You're underrating him. Furthermore, if Kaleta stays healthy, I bet he scores more goals this year than: Brad Boyes Paul Gaustad Jochen Hecht Cody McCormick and Kotalik if his call-ups count LOL you want use a dictionary definition or are you going to make one up? Correct me if I am mistaken here but he has yet to play more than a once-in-a-blue-moon shift as anything other than a 4th liner in the 4 seasons he's played in the NHL. And I'm pretty sure it's Lindy that's evaluated Kaleta for that role. You guys are the ones calling him a 3rd liner this year and he's only done that in preseason with a bunch of prospects on the ice. We'll see where he gets slotted when the games mean something. I'd take that bet excepting maybe Cody if it weren't an internet bet.
thesportsbuff Posted October 1, 2011 Report Posted October 1, 2011 LOL you want use a dictionary definition or are you going to make one up? Correct me if I am mistaken here but he has yet to play more than a once-in-a-blue-moon shift as anything other than a 4th liner in the 4 seasons he's played in the NHL. And I'm pretty sure it's Lindy that's evaluated Kaleta for that role. You guys are the ones calling him a 3rd liner this year and he's only done that in preseason with a bunch of prospects on the ice. We'll see where he gets slotted when the games mean something. I'd take that bet excepting maybe Cody if it weren't an internet bet. Don't need a definition, it's common knowledge. "LOL." If everybody is only as good or as bad as their stat line says than Brad Boyes should have been a four-time all-star, no? Since I apparently have to clear it up for you, by "underrated" I mean that he has better hands, a better shot, and better all around offensive-awareness than he is given credit for or than he has shown on the scoresheet (part of that due to injuries and part of that due to being relegated to a 4th line bruiser/pest role.) Kaleta can score goals and create offense, especially when he's punishing opponents defensemen in the corners. I think we'll see more offense from him this season.
Weave Posted October 1, 2011 Report Posted October 1, 2011 Don't need a definition, it's common knowledge. "LOL." If everybody is only as good or as bad as their stat line says than Brad Boyes should have been a four-time all-star, no? Since I apparently have to clear it up for you, by "underrated" I mean that he has better hands, a better shot, and better all around offensive-awareness than he is given credit for or than he has shown on the scoresheet (part of that due to injuries and part of that due to being relegated to a 4th line bruiser/pest role.) Kaleta can score goals and create offense, especially when he's punishing opponents defensemen in the corners. I think we'll see more offense from him this season. Hey, lose the sarcasm. You jumped into it with sarcasm. Chill and try to have a conversation. I can go the douche bag route with you if you want but I'd rather communicate as an adult with you. I don't see it. You say he is underrated offensively. If he were better offensively than his points I would think he would either 1. make the players around him more effective offensively or 2. get chances that circumstance prevent him from finishing. I don't see either. His linemates haven't really benefitted *offensively* from him. And he doesn't get that many chances. He's been a 4th liner his entire career for a good reason.
thesportsbuff Posted October 1, 2011 Report Posted October 1, 2011 Hey, lose the sarcasm. You jumped into it with sarcasm. Chill and try to have a conversation. I can go the douche bag route with you if you want but I'd rather communicate as an adult with you. I don't see it. You say he is underrated offensively. If he were better offensively than his points I would think he would either 1. make the players around him more effective offensively or 2. get chances that circumstance prevent him from finishing. I don't see either. His linemates haven't really benefitted *offensively* from him. And he doesn't get that many chances. He's been a 4th liner his entire career for a good reason. I think he's been a 4th liner his whole career by default because that was the team "model" if you will. I've always looked at the team like this: 2 scoring lines, a more defensively sound two-way type of line (usually the Hecht line when he wasn't forced to play in the top 6), and then the banger/grit line with Kaleta's and McCormicks and Gaustads, or what have you. Also playing only 50 games a year doesn't help your chances of moving up the depth chart. But he does have a 10 goal season under his belt in just 55 games played two years ago, and playing more minutes on the third line w/ a better and more creative offensive player like Gerbe, I don't think a 15 -20 goal season is out of reach. I think when playing on Kaleta's line, Gaustad is forced to elevate his own physical play, either to 'protect' Kaleta or just to try and match his intensity. Gerbe already plays with intensity. Kaleta and Goose can work the boards and the corners, cycle the puck, and wear out defenders. Those are two big dudes, certainly more effective along the boards than a Vanek/Pominville/Roy/etc. They aren't afraid to crash the net and get dirty, either. I see Kaleta scoring a lot of rebound goals -- but we've seen a pretty nasty wrister from him on a few occasions in his career (I recall a breakaway vs the Rangers last year or the season prior in which Kaleta roofed it pas Lundqvist.) Maybe he doesn't have a chance to use the shot too often, but if he stays out of the penalty box and earns his third line ice time, I think he can surprise some people with his offensive contributions.
thesportsbuff Posted October 1, 2011 Report Posted October 1, 2011 the top line is: Vanek - Adams - Pominville the 2nd line is: Ennis - Leino - Stafford the 3rd line is: Hecht - Roy - Boyes the 4th line is: Gerbe - Gaustad - Kaleta extra man - McCormick I wouldn't pencil Adam into the lineup just yet, and certainly not at Top line center. I think the lines are pretty much set, barring injury, as the following: 1. Vanek - Roy - Pommer 2. Ennis - Leino - Stafford 3. Gerbe - Goose - Kaleta 4. Hecht - McCormick - Boyes at least that would be my choice
LGR4GM Posted October 1, 2011 Report Posted October 1, 2011 the top line is: Vanek - Adams - Pominville the 2nd line is: Ennis - Leino - Stafford the 3rd line is: Hecht - Roy - Boyes the 4th line is: Gerbe - Gaustad - Kaleta extra man - McCormick holy crap after listening to the game I posted this haha... I think you are right and this lineup could potentially work but that "3rd" line and I dont mean its a true 3rd line would have to have a fire lit under it by Roy for it to work right... also if hecht gets injured I think gerbe could be bumped up and mccormick could fill in
Derrico Posted October 1, 2011 Report Posted October 1, 2011 I wouldn't pencil Adam into the lineup just yet, and certainly not at Top line center. I think the lines are pretty much set, barring injury, as the following: 1. Vanek - Roy - Pommer 2. Ennis - Leino - Stafford 3. Gerbe - Goose - Kaleta 4. Hecht - McCormick - Boyes at least that would be my choice I agree with this except that I would swap lines 3 and 4 as your line 4 I think will get more ice time in the long run. Although they are interchangeable I suppose.
nfreeman Posted October 1, 2011 Report Posted October 1, 2011 Gerbe, Gaustad and Kaleta makes sense on a ton of different levels. I honestly have no idea why ANYONE wants to see Hecht centering ANY line. I never want to see it again. As for Kaleta over Boyes, these three apparently busted their butts working with eachother all summer. Bull is right--if this doesn't motivate Boyes (who was ready to have a breakthrough in the playoff, until, well, the ployoff happened) nothing will. This is vintage Ruff. I thought Gaustad was the best center the Sabres put on the ice in the playoffs. And his pairing with Gerbe was terrific. I think this line will give other teams fits and pose many matchup problems. It will be an irritating line to play against and Kaleta is quick enough to skate with Gerbe. Sure enough the lines will change, often and quicky. But I have zero problems with Ruff starting this as his third line. Good call. As the hockey saying goes, that line will be hard to play against.
nostyle126 Posted October 1, 2011 Author Report Posted October 1, 2011 I guess my point is that some people need more help than others to play to their potential, given their role. I think you can put Kaleta on any line and he'll do what he does...hit, agitate, and make the occasional play. Boyes, on the other hand, needs support to produce, but I think he has a ton of upside to be very productive if put in that 'just right' situation. That's why I feel you need to put Boyes on a more skilled line while letting Kaleta do his thing on the 4th line. I also hope to see Adam in the lineup more than McCormick sooner than later. I know that Cody has been in the system longer and has earned the right to be where he is, but Adam has so much more upside than McCormick that I think by midseason he will be locked into a spot on this team for good.
Andrew Amerk Posted October 2, 2011 Report Posted October 2, 2011 I don't know how a guy returns to scoring form on a line with McCormick and Ellis. He needs to play with skill players if he is going to score. The positive for someone like Boyes being on a 4th line, is that he should be up against the weakest defensemen on the opposing team. If he's got skills, he should be burning them. Also, being in a contract year, he should be going out of his way to kick butt, no matter where he is.
james duncan Posted October 2, 2011 Report Posted October 2, 2011 I guess my point is that some people need more help than others to play to their potential, given their role. I think you can put Kaleta on any line and he'll do what he does...hit, agitate, and make the occasional play. Boyes, on the other hand, needs support to produce, but I think he has a ton of upside to be very productive if put in that 'just right' situation. That's why I feel you need to put Boyes on a more skilled line while letting Kaleta do his thing on the 4th line. I also hope to see Adam in the lineup more than McCormick sooner than later. I know that Cody has been in the system longer and has earned the right to be where he is, but Adam has so much more upside than McCormick that I think by midseason he will be locked into a spot on this team for good. If a veteran player making millions of dollars needs help to reach his potential, I'd argue he shouldn't be in the NHL. What he ought to be doing is busting his behind to move up from the fourth line--which I suspect is what Ruff wants to see him do. On the flip side, why should someone who is already doing that be demoted? Playing time is earned.
X. Benedict Posted October 2, 2011 Report Posted October 2, 2011 I think Boyes skating on a 4th line in practice can best be summed up by Brendan Shanahan's "therefore I'm suspeding Brad Boyes for two preseason games. " It was nothing more than a chance for Lindy to get Luke Adam skating time with different combos.
Weave Posted October 2, 2011 Report Posted October 2, 2011 I think Boyes skating on a 4th line in practice can best be summed up by Brendan Shanahan's "therefore I'm suspeding Brad Boyes for two preseason games. " It was nothing more than a chance for Lindy to get Luke Adam skating time with different combos. I suspect you're right. The question now becomes, what does Lindy do now that Adam has shown he's ready?
X. Benedict Posted October 2, 2011 Report Posted October 2, 2011 I think we see Lindy try Adam out with Vanek. Lindy loves to float the RWs. So we will probably see Boyes and Pominville with them.
Marvelo Posted October 2, 2011 Report Posted October 2, 2011 If a veteran player making millions of dollars needs help to reach his potential, I'd argue he shouldn't be in the NHL. What he ought to be doing is busting his behind to move up from the fourth line--which I suspect is what Ruff wants to see him do. On the flip side, why should someone who is already doing that be demoted? Playing time is earned. For a scorer like him, he's only as good as his setup men. He's being wasted, like most of our deadline acquisitions.
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