OT - A Piece of Local History

[FogBat]

Something's been in the water of western New York for a very long time. Here's another example.

 

And this...

 

My philosophy on history is this: learn something new everyday.

[Eleven]

Something's been in the water of western New York for a very long time. Here's another example.

 

And this...

 

My philosophy on history is this: learn something new everyday.

 

Bunch of f*cking slaver-side idiots.

[Weave]

Bunch of f*cking slaver-side idiots.

 

:unsure:

[Eleven]

:unsure:

 

Did you read the links? Or are you one of the folks who thinks that the Civil War was somehow about a "states' rights" movement? (It wasn't.)

[FogBat]

Bunch of f*cking slaver-side idiots.

Ironic that you should pass judgment on them like this, given that these people might as well have been our great-grandparents' neighbors.

 

People hold stronger views than others (which we've seen countless times on here). Just thought I'd share a rather interesting tidbit. ATST, I never thought I'd see those crossed flags in the same picture - let alone on a volunteer fire department patch north of the Mason-Dixon line.

[Weave]

Did you read the links? Or are you one of the folks who thinks that the Civil War was somehow about a "states' rights" movement? (It wasn't.)

 

Ease up on the condescension Holmes. I wasn't sure if you were kidding around or not. Given your entry into the convo I'll pass on going any further with it.

[Eleven]

There are some things I feel strongly about. Confederate sympathizers during the Civil War are among those things. Disgusting. Sorry if it was meant just to be a historic curiosity.

[FogBat]

There are some things I feel strongly about. Confederate sympathizers during the Civil War are among those things. Disgusting. Sorry if it was meant just to be a historic curiosity.

NP, apology accepted. That was exactly the intent of this thread. Hence when I said that something must be in the water in western New York. Given all the historical things that have happened in this area which most people would not consider normal, this only added to the list. (The British sacking and burning down Buffalo in the War of 1812, Charles Finney's bogus "Christian revival meetings", the McKinley assassination, all those freak lake-effect storms we keep getting every winter (not to mention the Blizzard of '77), and a little fringe hamlet that fought for the South in the Civil War - just to cite a few things.)

[darksabre]

Although I think it was intended as historic interest (it's something I've known about for years), I think the whole "Last of the Rebels" thing is really inappropriate. I guess there are no black people in Townline.

[X. Benedict]

There are some things I feel strongly about. Confederate sympathizers during the Civil War are among those things. Disgusting. Sorry if it was meant just to be a historic curiosity.

 

Though New York is thought to be a "Free" state, slavery wasn't officially abolished until 1827.

 

But after the Dred Scott decision (1857) many in the Niagara Region, often rural poor, made handsome bounties capturing African Americans (whether slave or not) by intercepting the underground railroad to Canada on the Niagara Frontier and selling fellow Americans into bondage, which more often than not led to family separation, torture and rape.

 

An ugly part our region's history. So it is no surprise that Town Point has a muted history on the matter.

[FogBat]

Although I think it was intended as historic interest (it's something I've known about for years), I think the whole "Last of the Rebels" thing is really inappropriate. I guess there are no black people in Townline.

That's their doing, not mine.

[FogBat]

Though New York is thought to be a "Free" state, slavery wasn't officially abolished until 1827.

 

But after the Dred Scott decision (1857) many in the Niagara Region, often rural poor, made handsome bounties capturing African Americans (whether slave or not) by intercepting the underground railroad to Canada on the Niagara Frontier and selling fellow Americans into bondage, which more often than not led to family separation, torture and rape.

 

An ugly part our region's history. So it is no surprise that Town Point Line has a muted history on the matter.

Fixed.

 

While it's interesting to bring up local history, I can see in retrospect that this has backfired on me. It was not my intent to see the chattel slavery issue brought up whatsoever.

[darksabre]

That's their doing, not mine.

 

I'm not pinning it on you at all. Just making my feelings felt on something that the authors seem to reference in a folksy "awww it's okay" manner.

[X. Benedict]

Fixed.

 

While it's interesting to bring up local history, I can see in retrospect that this has backfired on me. It was not my intent to bring up the chattel slavery issue whatsoever.

 

My point was not against you. It was that in our region it was not most likely a noble interest in any grand cause. There were well-grounded business motives for human trafficking. That's all.

 

I forget exactly where I've seen it, but Jane didn't bring up the interceptions of the underground railroad in that area. I've seen documents in the past, but I gets old. ;)

[FogBat]

I'm not pinning it on you at all. Just making my feelings felt on something that the authors seem to reference in a folksy "awww it's okay" manner.

Seems to me from the way I read it was that they held a seccessionist attitude that stayed in place over 80 years AFTER the war ended. It's just one of those really freaky things. (Almost like a Japanese soldier who hid in a cave in the South Pacific for many years, thinking that Japan was still at war with the US.)

 

It's not the first time I read about Town Line in those two links. I came across a stub article on Wikipedia about it after stumbling upon how some states have thought about breaking up into different pieces in times past (and not just some recent rhetoric about splitting up NYS into different pieces).

 

Hopefully, Town Line has moved on from all of this. Who knows? Maybe we'll see some of their lovely citizens at the FN Center for a game or two. :)

[X. Benedict]

Seems to me from the way I read it was that they held a seccessionist attitude that stayed in place over 80 years AFTER the war ended. It's just one of those really freaky things. (Almost like a Japanese soldier who hid in a cave in the South Pacific for many years, thinking that Japan was still at war with the US.)

 

It's not the first time I read about Town Line in those two links. I came across a stub article on Wikipedia about it after stumbling upon how some states have thought about breaking up into different pieces in times past (and not just some recent rhetoric about splitting up NYS into different pieces).

 

Hopefully, Town Line has moved on from all of this. Who knows? Maybe we'll see some of their lovely citizens at the FN Center for a game or two. :)

 

It is freaky, but ignores the Underground Railroad route from Warsaw through Lancaster, right around that 20A area. Local Bounty hunters were the reason it needed to be "underground".

[FogBat]

My point was not against you. It was that in our region it was not most likely a noble interest in any grand cause. There were well-grounded business motives for human trafficking. That's all.

 

I forget exactly where I've seen it, but Jane didn't bring up the interceptions of the underground railroad in that area. I've seen documents in the past, but I gets old. ;)

It's tragic just how people will do such evil and wicked things because they're looking to make an extra buck here or there.

[korab rules]

Although I think it was intended as historic interest (it's something I've known about for years), I think the whole "Last of the Rebels" thing is really inappropriate. I guess there are no black people in Townline.

I grew up very close to Townline. There aren't.

[Taro T]

It is freaky, but ignores the Underground Railroad route from Warsaw through Lancaster, right around that 20A area. Local Bounty hunters were the reason it needed to be "underground".

Hey, hey, don't be disparaging 20A. Townline sits on Broadway (20) not 20A. ;)

[darksabre]

I grew up very close to Townline. There aren't.

 

I lived on Schwartz rd most of my life, so I don't doubt it. But the point remains, isn't it a little immature at this point to be parading around with the Rebel flag on the uniforms of public servants?

[X. Benedict]

Hey, hey, don't be disparaging 20A. Townline sits on Broadway (20) not 20A. ;)

 

Apologies to the late Tim Russert are in order :)

[korab rules]

I lived on Schwartz rd most of my life, so I don't doubt it. But the point remains, isn't it a little immature at this point to be parading around with the Rebel flag on the uniforms of public servants?

Isn't the rebel flag still flown on the capital building in South Carolina? It's a historical reference - just because they have it doesn't mean it's racist - If we banned everything that anyone found offensive there wouldn't be anything left to ban.

 

Life sucks and some people are a$$holes. You can't legislate morality. Get used to it, grow thicker skin, and move on.

 

Schwartz Rd, what is that, Lancaster school district? Clarence?

[X. Benedict]

Isn't the rebel flag still flown on the capital building in South Carolina? It's a historical reference - just because they have it doesn't mean it's racist - If we banned everything that anyone found offensive there wouldn't be anything left to ban.

 

Life sucks and some people are a$$holes. You can't legislate morality. Get used to it, grow thicker skin, and move on.

 

Schwartz Rd, what is that, Lancaster school district? Clarence?

Of course morality is legislated - see the Penal Code

 

State and government symbols and flags are by definition legislated.

[darksabre]

Isn't the rebel flag still flown on the capital building in South Carolina? It's a historical reference - just because they have it doesn't mean it's racist - If we banned everything that anyone found offensive there wouldn't be anything left to ban.

 

Life sucks and some people are a$$holes. You can't legislate morality. Get used to it, grow thicker skin, and move on.

 

Schwartz Rd, what is that, Lancaster school district? Clarence?

 

Lancaster.

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure about the South Carolina one, but I know a few years ago Georgia removed it from its own state flag, which I see as a sign of progress.

 

I know you can't regulate morality, but I think its up to the government to at least try not to contribute to a lack of it. I'll be straight: I don't think the Rebel flag has a place anywhere except in historical situations, such as museums and reenactments. Flying a Rebel flag in your front yard, like half of the population of Marilla does, doesn't make you anything other than a racist douche. If you're wearing a T-shirt with a Rebel flag and a monster truck on it, you obviously don't want to talk to anyone other than white people. And there is no way anyone can convince me otherwise, because attempting to do so would be ignorant.

 

Is the Rebel flag in its design supposed to be racist? No. But neither is the swastika, and we all know what reputation that symbol holds. Being "thick skinned" has nothing to do with its reception. It has to do with what these symbols represent in their most popular use: Hate. Hatred of ones' own brethren, hatred of progress, and hatred of people who are different. They cannot be associated with anything else.

 

I want other people to accept me. I don't want to alienate anyone if I can help it. I could run around all day defending the Rebel flag, and its historical background, but when it's all said and done with, nothing will change. The Rebel flag is symbol forever tainted. And defending its usage is not a noble cause.

[korab rules]

Of course morality is legislated - see the Penal Code

 

State and government symbols and flags are by definition legislated.

 

The Penal Law legislates conduct, not morality. You can punish people for their conduct, but not for their thoughts. Morality isn't what people do, its what they think.