Sabres with new contracts -- who will live up to them?

[shrader]

I suppose it depends on how you frame the question, but Ehrhoff is the 2nd highest paid player in the entire NHL this season. Yeah, that actual money point of view doesn't mesh with what freeman outlined in this thread, but I have no problem with someone saying Ehrhoff is overpaid.

[korab rules]

I suppose it depends on how you frame the question, but Ehrhoff is the 2nd highest paid player in the entire NHL this season. Yeah, that actual money point of view doesn't mesh with what freeman outlined in this thread, but I have no problem with someone saying Ehrhoff is overpaid.

If he was referring to what he is getting paid this year, the questions is who cares! All that matters is the cap hit, and his cap hit is a very reasonable number by any objective standard. Whether it will remain a bargain 7, 8 and 9 years from now is another question, but as I pointed out yesterday, this should be an easily movable contract should the Sabres decide they want to move him in a few years, as the bulk of the money will be paid but the team picking himup will get a cap hit greater than his actual cost. Some teams would love a couple players like that to help them get to the floor without paying to the floor.

[nfreeman]

I suppose it depends on how you frame the question, but Ehrhoff is the 2nd highest paid player in the entire NHL this season. Yeah, that actual money point of view doesn't mesh with what freeman outlined in this thread, but I have no problem with someone saying Ehrhoff is overpaid.

If he was referring to what he is getting paid this year, the questions is who cares! All that matters is the cap hit, and his cap hit is a very reasonable number by any objective standard. Whether it will remain a bargain 7, 8 and 9 years from now is another question, but as I pointed out yesterday, this should be an easily movable contract should the Sabres decide they want to move him in a few years, as the bulk of the money will be paid but the team picking himup will get a cap hit greater than his actual cost. Some teams would love a couple players like that to help them get to the floor without paying to the floor.

I think cap hit and length of contract are the biggest factors. Certainly Ehrhoff's deal is structured to be tradeable in its later years, but this only goes so far. There is indeed a possibility that after 2 years here, he'll be a washout and we'll be looking at being married to him for another 8 years at a $4MM per year cap hit. While that's certainly better than a $6MM cap hit, it would still be a terrible contract for the Sabres.

 

Having said that, in light of the bottomless pit of money that TP appears to be willing to draw from to fund the Sabres (yes!!), I agree with Korab that for purposes of determining whether Ehrhoff's contract is a good one for the Sabres, his first 1-2 years' salary aren't really the key factor.

[IKnowPhysics]

Underrated values for the team: Gerbe, Enroth.

 

I expect no drop off in effort from either of these guys, which means that they should be able to continue their development.

 

Gerbe seems to bust his ass every minute he's on the ice, often adding energy to the game (but necessarily in a physical or adversarial way). I think he'll continue to develop his scoring touch and will start to earn top-six minutes and situations. It's not impossible to think of Gerbe as a 30 goal guy or a 25 goal guy + PK expert by the end of this contract.

 

Enroth is obviously an enormous on-ice improvement over Lalime. He's driven to succeed at the highest level: he passed on a European pay raise to stay in the NHL as a backup. He'll step up into key starts, put on a good show, and give Miller some much-needed time off. Both players will benefit from his increased involvement. I expect that the difference in win-loss records between Lalime and Enroth should be enough to bump us up one or two spots in the East; we'll have the ability to gather points when Miller's not on the ice.

[Taro T]

If he was referring to what he is getting paid this year, the questions is who cares! All that matters is the cap hit, and his cap hit is a very reasonable number by any objective standard. Whether it will remain a bargain 7, 8 and 9 years from now is another question, but as I pointed out yesterday, this should be an easily movable contract should the Sabres decide they want to move him in a few years, as the bulk of the money will be paid but the team picking himup will get a cap hit greater than his actual cost. Some teams would love a couple players like that to help them get to the floor without paying to the floor.

That will probably be true. It definitely is true in the league's current cap structure and function. If the next CBA deal doesn't significantly alter the cap and how trades / buyouts work, it will still be true.

[shrader]

I have no problem with the contract, but like I said, I'm completely willing to let anyone claim he's overpaid. If you were to create a list of who you think should be the highest paid players in any single season, how long would it take before you listed Ehrhoff?

[korab rules]

I have no problem with the contract, but like I said, I'm completely willing to let anyone claim he's overpaid. If you were to create a list of who you think should be the highest paid players in any single season, how long would it take before you listed Ehrhoff?

Why the fixation on what he is getting paid this year instead of his cap hit? I don't understand why anyone would care what he is getting paid in any one year (other than Pegula, of course). If they were to care, I would think that the front loading would be viewed as a positive rather than a negative.

[Andrew Amerk]

Remember, the whole point of the Sabres doing all of this, is because we want to win NOW.

[shrader]

Why the fixation on what he is getting paid this year instead of his cap hit? I don't understand why anyone would care what he is getting paid in any one year (other than Pegula, of course). If they were to care, I would think that the front loading would be viewed as a positive rather than a negative.

 

I'm not fixating. But I'll say this for the third time. If anyone wants to say he's overpaid, I'm not going to argue that statement.

 

Should I say it a fourth time now? :wallbash: :D

[wjag]

Why the fixation on what he is getting paid this year instead of his cap hit? I don't understand why anyone would care what he is getting paid in any one year (other than Pegula, of course). If they were to care, I would think that the front loading would be viewed as a positive rather than a negative.

 

I think he is overpaid. If he puts up 50 points ON THIS team, then I won't. But his 50 points are every much a factor of who he played with and he ain't playing with the most explosive team in the league this year. I just don't see him having the same production this year. I'll guess 10 goals and 20 assists. So if my estimate is correct, do you still think he is worth what they paid for 30 points?

 

I will be the first one to dig up this thread if he surpasses 35 points...

[LGR4GM]

I think he is overpaid. If he puts up 50 points ON THIS team, then I won't. But his 50 points are every much a factor of who he played with and he ain't playing with the most explosive team in the league this year. I just don't see him having the same production this year. I'll guess 10 goals and 20 assists. So if my estimate is correct, do you still think he is worth what they paid for 30 points?

 

I will be the first one to dig up this thread if he surpasses 35 points...

Yes, and your estimate is wrong he will hit 45pts.

 

Ehrhoff is bringing more than just points. He has gotten 82 and 108 blocked shots the last 2 seasons. He is a +74 for his career with only one year ever at -12. He will be playing with either Sekera or Weber or possibly Leopold so he will have a solid defensive partner here. His power play skills will assure him to pot at least 15-20pts alone. He also had 209 SOG last year and 181 the year before so he shoots a lot especially for a defender. And then there is his experience on the PP and in the Playoffs so I think he should bring a lot more than just production to this team.

 

You are also saying that SJ and Van were basically giving Ehrhoff his points and thats iffy and I think Ennis, Stafford, Roy and Vanek can probably hit a puck in on rebound on the PP as well as the sedins... I just dont think 20pts came from playing with the Sedins and Kesler

[...]

That will probably be true. It definitely is true in the league's current cap structure and function. If the next CBA deal doesn't significantly alter the cap and how trades / buyouts work, it will still be true.

 

I think this is a key facet of the signing. If it doesn't "work out" the Sabres can dump him in a few years because of the way the contract is structured - I think DR has been working under the fiscal gun for so long that this matter was factored in nearly out of habit. I don't expect DR to throw around all of this new found money willy-nilly without forethought, he's just not that kind of executive.

 

My guess is that DR and TB, along with the rest of the league - players and administrators alike - have a good idea now what the next CBA will look like. The lock-out wasn't too long ago and everyone will want to avoid going through that nonsense again; I know I would.

[nfreeman]

I think he is overpaid. If he puts up 50 points ON THIS team, then I won't. But his 50 points are every much a factor of who he played with and he ain't playing with the most explosive team in the league this year. I just don't see him having the same production this year. I'll guess 10 goals and 20 assists. So if my estimate is correct, do you still think he is worth what they paid for 30 points?

 

I will be the first one to dig up this thread if he surpasses 35 points...

Well, Myers had 37 pts last year. I expect Ehrhoff to be the leading scorer among the D. I'll be surprised if he doesn't get 40.

 

Yes, and your estimate is wrong he will hit 45pts.

 

Ehrhoff is bringing more than just points. He has gotten 82 and 108 blocked shots the last 2 seasons. He is a +74 for his career with only one year ever at -12. He will be playing with either Sekera or Weber or possibly Leopold so he will have a solid defensive partner here. His power play skills will assure him to pot at least 15-20pts alone. He also had 209 SOG last year and 181 the year before so he shoots a lot especially for a defender. And then there is his experience on the PP and in the Playoffs so I think he should bring a lot more than just production to this team.

 

You are also saying that SJ and Van were basically giving Ehrhoff his points and thats iffy and I think Ennis, Stafford, Roy and Vanek can probably hit a puck in on rebound on the PP as well as the sedins... I just dont think 20pts came from playing with the Sedins and Kesler

Some good stuff in this post, but you kinda went off the rails with the bolded stuff.

[Taro T]

I think this is a key facet of the signing. If it doesn't "work out" the Sabres can dump him in a few years because of the way the contract is structured - I think DR has been working under the fiscal gun for so long that this matter was factored in nearly out of habit. I don't expect DR to throw around all of this new found money willy-nilly without forethought, he's just not that kind of executive.

 

My guess is that DR and TB, along with the rest of the league - players and administrators alike - have a good idea now what the next CBA will look like. The lock-out wasn't too long ago and everyone will want to avoid going through that nonsense again; I know I would.

I would agree with this generally. The league will want the players' %age reduced slightly, will want a correction to the 'retirement loophole,' & will want further adjustment to the Kovi rule (basically, they'll want need the players to save themselves from themselves; and the players should be willing to go along because the more competitive the league is, the better product it should be, and the more $'s that should be available to split).

 

The players will want their %age increased, less escrow withholding, earlier FA, increased league minimum salary, & probably more money guaranteed in individual contracts (80% when cut vs 2/3 perhaps?).

 

Not sure about the details of what each side will stake out as their position on increased revenue sharing between clubs, moving to a cap range (rather than a hard cap), arbitration reform, pension adjustments, rules committee reforms, disciplinary hearings, Olympics/ potential Canada Cup revival, & possible expansion. But while revenue sharing and details of the cap itself are BIG items, these aren't likely to be dealbreakers.

 

Regardless of the details, there will continue to be a salary cap and contracts will continue to be essentially guaranteed. League revenues have gone from ~$2.1B before the lockout to ~$2.9B this year. While a lot of that growth has been due to the appreciation of the Canadian $, both sides should see room to find common ground w/ that kind of growth in a poor US economy.

 

The only potential fly-in-the-ointment is that Don Fehr is known to be a guy that is one of the if not THE toughest negotiator in sports. I have no doubt though that he'll do what his clients (the NHLPA) want. I think their desire to 'win' the next CBA doesn't outweight their desire to not lose another season. Hopefully that's not just wishful thinking.

 

I expect the rhetoric in public to be very fierce, but also expect that they'll get a deal done w/out losing any games.

 

It'll be fascinating and a little scary watching Bettman and Fehr square off.

[LGR4GM]

Well, Myers had 37 pts last year. I expect Ehrhoff to be the leading scorer among the D. I'll be surprised if he doesn't get 40.

 

 

Some good stuff in this post, but you kinda went off the rails with the bolded stuff.

Who do you think Ehrhoff will play with? I dont think it will be Myers, Regehr is going to be his defense partner, right?

[spndnchz]

Who do you think Ehrhoff will play with? I dont think it will be Myers, Regehr is going to be his defense partner, right?

 

I'd expect Ehrhoff. Has more TOI than Regehr (not by much) but Myers will do well with someone he feels can take the puck up-ice. He won't have that feeling that it's all up to him.

 

Then again, Regehr is a stay at home d-man and Myers likes to pinch. Either could be a good match because Myers shoots right and both Ehrhoff and Regehr shoot left. We'll see how training camp and pre-season go. Should be fun.

[nfreeman]

Who do you think Ehrhoff will play with? I dont think it will be Myers, Regehr is going to be his defense partner, right?

I'd expect Ehrhoff. Has more TOI than Regehr (not by much) but Myers will do well with someone he feels can take the puck up-ice. He won't have that feeling that it's all up to him.

 

Then again, Regehr is a stay at home d-man and Myers likes to pinch. Either could be a good match because Myers shoots right and both Ehrhoff and Regehr shoot left. We'll see how training camp and pre-season go. Should be fun.

I heard an interview with Lindy in July in which he said that he expected to start out by trying Myers with Regehr. That would most likely put Ehrhoff with Leopold unless either Reggie or Weber takes a big step in camp (which I would love to see as I didn't like Leopold's defensive zone play last year).

[LGR4GM]

I'd expect Ehrhoff. Has more TOI than Regehr (not by much) but Myers will do well with someone he feels can take the puck up-ice. He won't have that feeling that it's all up to him. Then again, Regehr is a stay at home d-man and Myers likes to pinch. Either could be a good match because Myers shoots right and both Ehrhoff and Regehr shoot left. We'll see how training camp and pre-season go. Should be fun.

 

 

I heard an interview with Lindy in July in which he said that he expected to start out by trying Myers with Regehr. That would most likely put Ehrhoff with Leopold unless either Reggie or Weber takes a big step in camp (which I would love to see as I didn't like Leopold's defensive zone play last year).

Hmm good points, I think training camp should be fun because so much changed in the last 365 days. Weber with Ehrhoff is prob not going to happen although I think Weber deserves that shot, I feel Sekera and Ehrhoff will go together because that gives you the offensive defender vet with the still inexperienced younger offensive defender. Time shall tell but this is taking to freaking long.

[Andrew Amerk]

Hmm good points, I think training camp should be fun because so much changed in the last 365 days. Weber with Ehrhoff is prob not going to happen although I think Weber deserves that shot, I feel Sekera and Ehrhoff will go together because that gives you the offensive defender vet with the still inexperienced younger offensive defender. Time shall tell but this is taking to freaking long.

 

This same idea would apply by pairing Sekera with Leopold.

 

With Myers+Regehr and Ehrhoff+Weber you get a nice combo of offense+defense.

[Drunkard]

This same idea would apply by pairing Sekera with Leopold.

 

With Myers+Regehr and Ehrhoff+Weber you get a nice combo of offense+defense.

 

I like that idea too. I'd like to see them go with a defensive lineup of something like:

 

Regehr Myers

Ehrhoff Weber

Sekera Leopold

Gragnani

 

This allows you to pair a veteran with a younger defenseman and also allows you to pair an offensive defenseman with a stay at home type defenseman. The only thing I don't like is that all of our D except for Myers are left handed.

[LGR4GM]

This same idea would apply by pairing Sekera with Leopold.With Myers+Regehr and Ehrhoff+Weber you get a nice combo of offense+defense.

 

 

I like that idea too. I'd like to see them go with a defensive lineup of something like:Regehr MyersEhrhoff WeberSekera LeopoldGragnaniThis allows you to pair a veteran with a younger defenseman and also allows you to pair an offensive defenseman with a stay at home type defenseman. The only thing I don't like is that all of our D except for Myers are left handed.

O I totally agree with both of you that this would make the most sense but i dont see Sekera with his raise playing the 3rd line and I am not sure Weber, even though I love him will be good enough to take on 2nd line responsibilities with Ehrhoff. If these were the parings though it would be so awesome.