The Official Beer Appreciation Thread

[LGR4GM]

When was the last time you were here? There's craft beer basically everywhere.

Idk a month ago. Lots of rusty chain, one buffalo, and some southern tier but that was about it.

[Claude_Verret]

Yeah WNY in general has been a little late to the craft beer boom, but they have made up substantial ground in the past few years. Of course using the Atlanta, Charlotte, Asheville, Raleigh scene isn't really a fair measuring stick as these areas have been way ahead of the curve for some time.

[TrueBlueGED]

Idk a month ago. Lots of rusty chain, one buffalo, and some southern tier but that was about it.

 

 

Yeah WNY in general has been a little late to the craft beer boom, but they have made up substantial ground in the past few years. Of course using the Atlanta, Charlotte, Asheville, Raleigh scene isn't really a fair measuring stick as these areas have been way ahead of the curve for some time.

 

Liger, I think you must've gone to the wrong places, because there's definitely a bigger variety readily available. That said, CV has a good point in that if you're comparing to the crown jewels of the craft beer market, Buffalo's bar selection will disappoint.

[LGR4GM]

Yeah WNY in general has been a little late to the craft beer boom, but they have made up substantial ground in the past few years. Of course using the Atlanta, Charlotte, Asheville, Raleigh scene isn't really a fair measuring stick as these areas have been way ahead of the curve for some time.

That would be the scene I have been cruising.

[Claude_Verret]

[LGR4GM]

Nib Smuggler, American Porter. Smooth and slightly vanilla.

 

Hop gun ipa, less piney ipa decent.

 

More Moro, blood orange ipa. Tastes like an awesome beer mamosa

 

Muy bonita, American brown. It's pretty good. I'd have to say it's fantastic. Smooth and vanilla with that but brown finish, hint of cinnamon. Find this and drink it!

Edited April 9, 2016 by LGR4GM

[Doohicksie]

I mentioned this in the eating and drinking thread, but yesterday I had the pleasure of paying for this beer.

 

 

It's a HopFusion Feisty Blonde.  The reason you never heard of HopFusion is that they just shipped their first kegs on Thursday.  The brewery just received all their papers from the state to start selling beer and they "shipped" their first few kegs a few blocks up the street to a local bar.  I've had this beer before, but it was "samples" since they couldn't charge for the stuff yet.  It's a honey blonde ale.  The honey he uses is imported orange blossom honey and when you bring the glass to your mouth your nose picks up a full honey bouquet.  Oh and it's also 8% ABV.  The only reason I won't call this the best beer I've ever had is that HopFusion also makes Fur Slipper, an imperial milk stout that's out of this world.

More Moro, blood orange ipa. Tastes like an awesome beer mamosa

 

One of the more popular beers around here is Revolver Blood & Honey IPA.  Sounds similar to that.

[sabills]

List of breweries/brewpubs visited while on an 11 day west coast swing, vaguely in order, as well as I can remember:

 

Ballast Point

Stone

Russian River

Oak Park Brewery

Sac-Town

Hoppy's in Sacramento

New Helvetia

Sierra-Nevada

Caldera

Rogue

McMennimens Kennedy School

Bridgeport

 

I can't even list the number of new beers I had out there. Russian River and Hoppy's each had "samplers" that allowed you to try everything they had on tap, and every bar/restaurant I went to had new breweries and beers to try. I think the only "generic" beer I had out there was a Corona at a diner in Monterey, which was pretty perfect at that time, to be honest. So. Much. Beer. I want to go and do it all over again.

Edited April 14, 2016 by sabills

[Sabel79]

Devil's Backbone, one of my favorite Virgina breweries, has been bought by Anhieser-Busch.

 

RIP Devil's Backbone...

[Claude_Verret]

Devil's Backbone, one of my favorite Virgina breweries, has been bought by Anhieser-Busch.

 

RIP Devil's Backbone...

Wow, that is disappointing. Fantastic Vienna lager and schwarzbier, two styles you rarely see, let alone done well. I know Goose Island has been ok since being bought by AB, but still.... Edited April 14, 2016 by Claude_Verret

[Sabel79]

Wow, that is disappointing. Fantastic Vienna lager and schwarzbier, two styles you rarely see, let alone done well. I know Goose Island has been ok since being bought by AB, but still....

The Vienna Lager and Schwarzbier, as well as their IPA were fantastic. It'll now be watered down to Blue Moon proportions. tisk..

[Claude_Verret]

The Vienna Lager and Schwarzbier, as well as their IPA were fantastic. It'll now be watered down to Blue Moon proportions. tisk..

 

I'm a little more optimistic than that. If their plan is to dumb things down to blue moon level, they might as well just shut down the operation.

[LTS]

The Vienna Lager and Schwarzbier, as well as their IPA were fantastic. It'll now be watered down to Blue Moon proportions. tisk..

 

There is zero evidence to support this statement. It's a tired argument that comes up every time a craft brewer chooses to sell.

[sabills]

There is zero evidence to support this statement. It's a tired argument that comes up every time a craft brewer chooses to sell.

 

Yeah, while I'm not a fan of ABInBev at all, credit where credit is due: they haven't stuff up to much. When they've taken a brewery its rarely destroyed its quality that I've noticed. Elysium and Goose Island are still pretty good. They just want the money and the market share, not to make everything taste like Bud.

[Sabel79]

Food, or perhaps beer, for thought:

 

http://time.com/money/4073371/anheuser-busch-sabmiller-craft-beer/

[sabills]

Yo, where we drinking this summer now? 

 Missed this before. Somewhere else I guess :( Probably my porch a lot, haha

[darksabre]

Missed this before. Somewhere else I guess :( Probably my porch a lot, haha

I'm changing my workout routine solely to accommodate evening beverage consumption whims.

[That Aud Smell]

There is zero evidence to support this statement. It's a tired argument that comes up every time a craft brewer chooses to sell.

 

Au contraire.

 

I've had beers several times with people (one distributor, the other a marketer) who've worked directly with Goose Island. For Goose Island, there are now two sides of the house: The side controlled by AB InBev and the side controlled by the people who sold. It was part of the deal. Schedules to those deal documents spelled out which flagship beers of Goose Island would be controlled by AB InBev -- their very good IPA chief among them. I'm told that the bills of materials associated with those flagship beers have changed -- more and different malts (one combination of two malts that accomplishes the same colour in a cheaper way and, yes, a small amount of cereal grains (easier to control alcohol content maybe in large scale runs?)) and different hop combinations. The yeasts are the same -- which makes sense. AB InBev promotes and distributes the sh1t out of the G.I. beers it controls. The beers that the original proprietors control are specialty and seasonal types -- and those don't get the same level of support and distribution that the other beers get.

 

That is but one example. It is, I think, naive to think that massive publicly traded companies aren't managing the margins of the craft breweries that they acquire. And some of that management means fiddling with what goes into the beer.

 

I'm still trying to figure out whether and to what extent something's going on with the Southern Tier formulations. To my palate, there's something amiss with their standard IPA (green label) since they took on all that private equity (and that's before their latest co-venture with Victory). The ST IPA is thinner than it used to be. The flavours are the same. But it doesn't taste/feel the same.

Edited April 15, 2016 by That Aud Smell

[LGR4GM]

Craft breweries need to think less about being a national product and more about serving the local market IMPO. The market is saturated to some degree. I can walk into a store and chose from over 20 or 50 IPA's alone. By being good locally and catering to that market you can have a profitable company. It almost makes it more desirable that you have those few beers you can only get within 50miles of your brewery or within that home state. Makes you unique. 

[That Aud Smell]

Craft breweries need to think less about being a national product and more about serving the local market IMPO. The market is saturated to some degree. I can walk into a store and chose from over 20 or 50 IPA's alone. By being good locally and catering to that market you can have a profitable company. It almost makes it more desirable that you have those few beers you can only get within 50miles of your brewery or within that home state. Makes you unique. 

 

I think you may over-estimate the extent to which you can actually have a profitable company by being a small regional brewer. I know two local nano-breweries that are making excellent beer, are at absolute max capacity with significant commercial equipment, have a waiting list for accounts to be added, but are still *just* into the black on their balance sheets with most of the principals still holding their day jobs.

 

Some outfits in Buffalo - Big Ditch, Hamburg, Resurgence - had the resources (money) to build a big shiny brewpub setting where they could make money by serving their beer on premises. But for those small breweries that don't have an on premises profit center to go along with an excellent product (I'll except Hamburg from that grouping - I do not think they have good beer), the path to profitability is much more uncertain (and slow).

[sabills]

I think you may over-estimate the extent to which you can actually have a profitable company by being a small regional brewer. I know two local nano-breweries that are making excellent beer, are at absolute max capacity with significant commercial equipment, have a waiting list for accounts to be added, but are still *just* into the black on their balance sheets with most of the principals still holding their day jobs.

 

Some outfits in Buffalo - Big Ditch, Hamburg, Resurgence - had the resources (money) to build a big shiny brewpub setting where they could make money by serving their beer on premises. But for those small breweries that don't have an on premises profit center to go along with an excellent product (I'll except Hamburg from that grouping - I do not think they have good beer), the path to profitability is much more uncertain (and slow).

 

Thats where having that tap-room legislation go through helps. I know CBW being able to serve on premises has helped out some. I'm betting their new location will have a bigger taproom.

[That Aud Smell]

Thats where having that tap-room legislation go through helps. I know CBW being able to serve on premises has helped out some. I'm betting their new location will have a bigger taproom.

 

God bless those guys. For my money (and taste), they have the best collection of beers among the local brewers. But I think they have struggled a bit to make it work monetarily. Seems like they're starting to turn a corner, though.

[Weave]

Au contraire.

 

I've had beers several times with people (one distributor, the other a marketer) who've worked directly with Goose Island. For Goose Island, there are now two sides of the house: The side controlled by AB InBev and the side controlled by the people who sold. It was part of the deal. Schedules to those deal documents spelled out which flagship beers of Goose Island would be controlled by AB InBev -- their very good IPA chief among them. I'm told that the bills of materials associated with those flagship beers have changed -- more and different malts (one combination of two malts that accomplishes the same colour in a cheaper way and, yes, a small amount of cereal grains (easier to control alcohol content maybe in large scale runs?)) and different hop combinations. The yeasts are the same -- which makes sense. AB InBev promotes and distributes the sh1t out of the G.I. beers it controls. The beers that the original proprietors control are specialty and seasonal types -- and those don't get the same level of support and distribution that the other beers get.

 

That is but one example. It is, I think, naive to think that massive publicly traded companies aren't managing the margins of the craft breweries that they acquire. And some of that management means fiddling with what goes into the beer.

 

I'm still trying to figure out whether and to what extent something's going on with the Southern Tier formulations. To my palate, there's something amiss with their standard IPA (green label) since they took on all that private equity (and that's before their latest co-venture with Victory). The ST IPA is thinner than it used to be. The flavours are the same. But it doesn't taste/feel the same.

 

To your first point, I know an A-B distributor personally.  I'd go so far as to call him a friend.  I'd be very surprised indeed if he had knowledge of the grain bills of the various A-B controlled brands.  He's never let on that he does.  And we've had conversations that would have brought it out.   Maybe he does and keeps it quiet.  That would be counter to his style though.

 

Re: Southern Tier IPA.  I know for a fact it has undergone at least 1 recipe tweek during its lifespan.  Phin has told me as much back when he was accessible at the brewery.  I'd be shocked if it hasn't been tweeked again.  I suspect it happens more than we think with most breweries.  I'm sure ingredient availability and price often drives it.

[LGR4GM]

I think you may over-estimate the extent to which you can actually have a profitable company by being a small regional brewer. I know two local nano-breweries that are making excellent beer, are at absolute max capacity with significant commercial equipment, have a waiting list for accounts to be added, but are still *just* into the black on their balance sheets with most of the principals still holding their day jobs.

 

Some outfits in Buffalo - Big Ditch, Hamburg, Resurgence - had the resources (money) to build a big shiny brewpub setting where they could make money by serving their beer on premises. But for those small breweries that don't have an on premises profit center to go along with an excellent product (I'll except Hamburg from that grouping - I do not think they have good beer), the path to profitability is much more uncertain (and slow).

It is uncertain, which is why you need to focus on the local market first and foremost. Creature Comforts in Georgia is a good example of this. You can grow but it has to be at a sustainable pace and keeping your local market in mind. The industry is flooded with big craft breweries who have big backers like the AB's of the beer world who own part or all of them. Terrapin Beer out of Athens GA is an example of a place that is owned in part by a big national producer.  It honestly has resulted in a few years of them neglecting their home market which at the end of the day is more important than the beer they are selling in 8 States away in NJ.

[LTS]

Au contraire.

 

I've had beers several times with people (one distributor, the other a marketer) who've worked directly with Goose Island. For Goose Island, there are now two sides of the house: The side controlled by AB InBev and the side controlled by the people who sold. It was part of the deal. Schedules to those deal documents spelled out which flagship beers of Goose Island would be controlled by AB InBev -- their very good IPA chief among them. I'm told that the bills of materials associated with those flagship beers have changed -- more and different malts (one combination of two malts that accomplishes the same colour in a cheaper way and, yes, a small amount of cereal grains (easier to control alcohol content maybe in large scale runs?)) and different hop combinations. The yeasts are the same -- which makes sense. AB InBev promotes and distributes the sh1t out of the G.I. beers it controls. The beers that the original proprietors control are specialty and seasonal types -- and those don't get the same level of support and distribution that the other beers get.

 

That is but one example. It is, I think, naive to think that massive publicly traded companies aren't managing the margins of the craft breweries that they acquire. And some of that management means fiddling with what goes into the beer.

 

I'm still trying to figure out whether and to what extent something's going on with the Southern Tier formulations. To my palate, there's something amiss with their standard IPA (green label) since they took on all that private equity (and that's before their latest co-venture with Victory). The ST IPA is thinner than it used to be. The flavours are the same. But it doesn't taste/feel the same.

 

I absolutely believe this 100% and you know why?  This is a common occurrence among all brewers.  The hop varietals and strengths are constantly changing based on contracts, growing seasons, etc.  There are beers that were once brewed predominantly with CTZ that now use completely different hops.  The grain bills change as well.  The end result?  Most people never notice.  They keep on drinking it.

 

The argument is that the quality will go down hill.  My point was there is no proof the quality has gone down hill.  Brewing with corn and rice does not equate to a crappy beer.  In fact, Budweiser is a quality product it just produces a flavor profile I do not like.  However, I have had really great beers that use corn and rice in their grain bills.  Especially rice.

 

The "5 point plan" is pure FUD.  It's not a new argument and its based on this merger deal.  So now SAB Miller ABinbev will be able to crush the craft market?  Nothing in that merger does ANYTHING to the craft market that could not have already been done.

 

There are changes in the craft marketplace to help offset the perceived impacts of the macro breweries coming into the market.  Some are obvious and others are less so.  I saw a reference to Kim Jordan (New Belgium owner) earlier today but I did not pull the article down.  The gist was talking of partnerships and regional craft brewers using extra capacity to brew "partner" brands to reduce distribution costs and turn out more volume without building out. In addition, they could co-op into pricing agreements that allow them to compete at the price level, not just the quality level.

 

I should also add that I've never considered Goose Island IPA to be anything spectacular.  It probably could use a little lighter body. :)

Edited April 15, 2016 by LTS