The Official Beer Appreciation Thread

[Claude_Verret]

Humor me though, with the exception of the Lips of Faith series, what do you consider a good beer from NB? I'm curious.

 

 

Good?  Every last one is at minimum good.  I'm not a big fan of Fat Tire or their wheat beers ,but Ranger IPA is certainly better than good, I like Shift as a good change of pace from a traditional lawn mower beer and some of their seasonal releases, Hoptober/Red Hoptober come to mind, were damn fine beers. I liked their session IPA too but I'm not remembering the name now.  To be honest, outside of La Folie I haven't thought much of their Lips of Faith series have stood out, the Gratzer I had last month was pretty good.

[That Aud Smell]

try to find one decent continental styled lager

Or a pilsener.

 

Craft brewers have not, as a rule, devoted a ton of attention to the lager side of the beer world. That's starting to change. But it's still fairly slim pickings.

[Claude_Verret]

Humor me though, with the exception of the Lips of Faith series, what do you consider a good beer from NB? I'm curious.

 

And although "swill" is a bit of hyperbole, I don't understand the draw to SN where there are so many better beers out there. I can understand some of SN's barrel-aged offerings, but their pale ales are just plain tired. There are some many better and new hop varieties besides Cascade. Their Hop Hunter was a complete disappointment after so much hype. I don't live in Buffalo anymore, but I know you guys get Sculpin, Flower Power, Jack's Abbey, most beers from Maine (Another One, Mo, Lunch), Firestone, and even Teo-Hearted, so why pick SN?

 

Sierra Nevada Pale Ale may be "tired" but it's a classic that defined the style, to me that's still something.  Celebration is an awesome beer as is their Bigfoot barleywine.  The SN Porter is very solid beer.  Hefeweizen is not a go to style for me, but their Kellerweis holds up to the German tradition admirably.  Most of my recent love for Sierra Nevada stems from their new brewery in Asheville (I'm in Raleigh) and the unique style offerings they had there.  A mild and a bitter super fresh on tap, those are very rare styles on the craft beer landscape in this country and they were done quite well.

Craft brewers have not, as a rule, devoted a ton of attention to the lager side of the beer world. That's starting to change. But it's still fairly slim pickings.

 

Yes, and they are more difficult to put out on a variety of levels.  Troegs sunshine pils and Victory Prima Pils are must haves.

[That Aud Smell]

Yes, and they are more difficult to put out on a variety of levels.  Troegs sunshine pils and Victory Prima Pils are must haves.

 

Maybe this is what you are saying: I recall reading something to the effect that the very nature of ales (their near infinite varieties and subtleties and flavoring elements) better lends itself to the craft/artisanal scene. Lagers, not as much. Seems as though the objectives and options in making a good lager are far more narrow than with ales.

[Claude_Verret]

Maybe this is what you are saying: I recall reading something to the effect that the very nature of ales (their near infinite varieties and subtleties and flavoring elements) better lends itself to the craft/artisanal scene. Lagers, not as much. Seems as though the objectives and options in making a good lager are far more narrow than with ales.

 

 

Yep there is absolutely nowhere to hide imperfections in pale lager especially.  The other difficulty comes from having the ability to lager a beer properly as well as the consideration of tying up a tank for lagering for an extended period which probably makes considering brewing one a non starter for many of the smaller guys.

[MattPie]

 

Craft brewers have not, as a rule, devoted a ton of attention to the lager side of the beer world. That's starting to change. But it's still fairly slim pickings.

Works for me, I rarely drink any of the lager styles. That being said, Victory Lager and Prima Pils are both palatable to me which says a lot.

[darksabre]

Maybe this is what you are saying: I recall reading something to the effect that the very nature of ales (their near infinite varieties and subtleties and flavoring elements) better lends itself to the craft/artisanal scene. Lagers, not as much. Seems as though the objectives and options in making a good lager are far more narrow than with ales.

That's what I appreciate about a lager. When you remove the need to be creative you become obsessed with perfection. I like that idea. Crafting a perfect beer, not just an interesting one.

[That Aud Smell]

That's what I appreciate about a lager. When you remove the need to be creative you become obsessed with perfection. I like that idea. Crafting a perfect beer, not just an interesting one.

 

Excellent point. Perfecting a limited form, rather than funkin' around with varied results in a much larger form.

I drank a bunch of pilsner when I was in the Czech Republic for a week or so (back in another lifetime), including the locally made Urquell. The best of those beers really was unlike anything I'd had before then, and anything I've had since. It's a phrase I dislike, but the "mouth feel" was unreal on those brews.

[Weave]

Yep there is absolutely nowhere to hide imperfections in pale lager especially.  The other difficulty comes from having the ability to lager a beer properly as well as the consideration of tying up a tank for lagering for an extended period which probably makes considering brewing one a non starter for many of the smaller guys.

 

There is way more to be had than pale lagers though.  A well made Dortmunder is delicious.  Paler and lighter, but a Munich Helles can be heavenly, to say nothing of the beauty of a Czech Pilsner.  Even Marzens get the short shaft here by being made with ale yeasts.  Hell, find me a great Alt made in the US dammit!  And that IS an ale.

 

I know that lagering isn't cost effective for small breweries.  That doesn't change my IPA fatigue.

[darksabre]

Excellent point. Perfecting a limited form, rather than funkin' around with varied results in a much larger form.

I drank a bunch of pilsner when I was in the Czech Republic for a week or so (back in another lifetime), including the locally made Urquell. The best of those beers really was unlike anything I'd had before then, and anything I've had since. It's a phrase I dislike, but the "mouth feel" was unreal on those brews.

I always feel bad for beers like Urquell, because they always taste like sh*t here. I bet it's great when it's fresh in its native land.

[Claude_Verret]

There is way more to be had than pale lagers though.  A well made Dortmunder is delicious.  Paler and lighter, but a Munich Helles can be heavenly, to say nothing of the beauty of a Czech Pilsner.  Even Marzens get the short shaft here by being made with ale yeasts.  Hell, find me a great Alt made in the US dammit!  And that IS an ale.

 

I know that lagering isn't cost effective for small breweries.  That doesn't change my IPA fatigue.

 

 

Absolutely.  Probably a top three beer that I've ever had was a Hofbrau Original (Helles) from the original Hofbrauhaus in Munich.  To quote a colleague that I dragged with me there: "I'm not a beer guy at all, but I could drink this all damn day long."  I used to brew an Alt often when I was brewing regularly, in fact if I ever dust off the brewing equipment that might be what I do first.

I always feel bad for beers like Urquell, because they always taste like sh*t here. I bet it's great when it's fresh in its native land.

 

Generally true, but if you can find it in a keg it's still usually pretty damn good.  The bottled Hofbrau I've had here haven't been nearly as good as what I had in Germany.

[MattPie]

I just realized how spoiled I am; Victory in Downingtown has seven lager-yeast styles on tap today, a couple are small-batch keg only. Or, I would be spoiled if I drank many lager beers.

http://www.victorybeer.com/brewpubs/downingtown/

[I am Defecting]

I won't go so far as to call Southern Tier mediocre. At one time I would have said they are ahead of the curve, and standing out. But I think their selections have kind of gone stale. Hop Sun and Live! are two of my go to beers, so it's not their quality I am questioning as much as it is the depth of their product lineup. They just aren't as interesting a brand as they used to be.

Their new beer Compass might get you back on their map. It's brewed with rosehips. It's my new very special occassion beer.

 

For a true session, you can't find a better beer than OV. Try it with a slice of lime. Ahhh. You'll think you were laying out on the beach at Sandbanks Provincial Park. And it won't irritate your bowels like those other industrial lagers. Have an Old Vienna. It's what beer was like before the Nazis. The real good old days.

 

You poor Genny drinkers. Getting all nostalgic over your Cream Ales, literally stuck to your toilets the next day. Tssk tssk.

Edited August 5, 2015 by I am Marcellus

[That Aud Smell]

For a true session, you can't find a better beer than OV. Try it with a slice of lime. Ahhh. You'll think you were laying out on the beach at Sandbanks Provincial Park. And it won't irritate your bowels like those other industrial lagers. Old Vienna. You poor Genny drinkers. Tssk tssk.

 

Agree. Just Say OV for that great taste in beer!

 

[I am Defecting]

For those of you who can't find OV or don't know what it is, just ask the bartender at your local Rite Aid. They'll show you where the good stuff is.

[darksabre]

OV  :wub:

[The Dominator]

Absolutely.  Probably a top three beer that I've ever had was a Hofbrau Original (Helles) from the original Hofbrauhaus in Munich.  To quote a colleague that I dragged with me there: "I'm not a beer guy at all, but I could drink this all damn day long."  I used to brew an Alt often when I was brewing regularly, in fact if I ever dust off the brewing equipment that might be what I do first.

 

Generally true, but if you can find it in a keg it's still usually pretty damn good.  The bottled Hofbrau I've had here haven't been nearly as good as what I had in Germany.

Ahh, Munich. Spent an extended weekend there. Loved HB and Schneider Weisse. Still grab some SW tap 7 whenever I get to Beers of the World.

[I am Defecting]

I like Ayinger's Dopplebock, and Celebrator.

 

Who would win in a brewfight of Germany vs Belgium? Germany, imo, for mass and variety. How does the USA match up?

Dunkel and Celebrator, I mean. The Celebrator is the dopplebock.

[Weave]

Absolutely.  Probably a top three beer that I've ever had was a Hofbrau Original (Helles) from the original Hofbrauhaus in Munich.  To quote a colleague that I dragged with me there: "I'm not a beer guy at all, but I could drink this all damn day long."  I used to brew an Alt often when I was brewing regularly, in fact if I ever dust off the brewing equipment that might be what I do first.

 

Generally true, but if you can find it in a keg it's still usually pretty damn good.  The bottled Hofbrau I've had here haven't been nearly as good as what I had in Germany.

 

If you've got a Gordon Biersch near you (nation-wide franchise brewpub), they make a surprisingly good Czech Pils.  And a Swartzbier is one of their Winter seasonals.  It's also pretty solid.

Their new beer Compass might get you back on their map. It's brewed with rosehips. It's my new very special occassion beer.

 

For a true session, you can't find a better beer than OV. Try it with a slice of lime. Ahhh. You'll think you were laying out on the beach at Sandbanks Provincial Park. And it won't irritate your bowels like those other industrial lagers. Have an Old Vienna. It's what beer was like before the Nazis. The real good old days.

 

You poor Genny drinkers. Getting all nostalgic over your Cream Ales, literally stuck to your toilets the next day. Tssk tssk.

 

Not into "infused" beers.  Pass.

 

OV was a good beer from my youth.  There is so much more interesting available now.  Hell, Cream Ale is more interesting.

[Claude_Verret]

If you've got a Gordon Biersch near you (nation-wide franchise brewpub), they make a surprisingly good Czech Pils.  And a Swartzbier is one of their Winter seasonals.  It's also pretty solid.

 

Not into "infused" beers.  Pass.

 

OV was a good beer from my youth.  There is so much more interesting available now.  Hell, Cream Ale is more interesting.

 

 

We do have one here but it's in the airport in the terminal I rarely fly out of.  I've been to the Gordon Biersch in Vegas a few years ago and remember being impressed.

[kas23]

Who would win in a brewfight of Germany vs Belgium? Germany, imo, for mass and variety. How does the USA match up?

 

Belgium, of course. I have a very soft spot for Orval and just love Cantillon. That said, beer-wise, I would never want to live anywhere but the U.S. Without any doubt, better beer is being produce here, but it may be because Belgium and Germany have their hands tied by tradition. I like my cars German though.

[MattPie]

We do have one here but it's in the airport in the terminal I rarely fly out of.  I've been to the Gordon Biersch in Vegas a few years ago and remember being impressed.

 

I've been to the Buffalo location a few times, but was terribly impressed. I think that's mostly down to preference, as they focus on lager styles which aren't my thing. Their dark/hoppy beers were OK but nothing to write home about.

[TrueBlueGED]

If you've got a Gordon Biersch near you (nation-wide franchise brewpub), they make a surprisingly good Czech Pils. And a Swartzbier is one of their Winter seasonals. It's also pretty solid.

 

 

Not into "infused" beers. Pass.

 

OV was a good beer from my youth. There is so much more interesting available now. Hell, Cream Ale is more interesting.

One thing I've taken from this thread is I'm not nearly as discerning about my craft beer as I thought I was. That said, I second the Czech Pils from Gordon Biersch. Very much enjoyed that one.

[MattPie]

One thing I've taken from this thread is I'm not nearly as discerning about my craft beer as I thought I was. That said, I second the Czech Pils from Gordon Biersch. Very much enjoyed that one.

 

No kidding, same here. I don't think I've ever even thought of a craft beer as swill. The only one I can recall really resisting drinking is Magic Hat's Circus Boy Wheat. I thought it would be a Bavarian-style hefe (I was just getting into wheat beers) but it was not good, far too "lagery" for me. Other than that, I see some beers that are very good, and the rest are "fine, but I'm not going to search them out". That goes for flavored and gimmick beers too, they're fun to try. Essentially, it's the same attitude I have with food: if someone things it was good enough to produce I'll give it a shot.

Edited August 6, 2015 by MattPie

[LTS]

I love Heady. It hits every note just right for me.

 

That's really what it is all about.  Regardless of mine or anyone else's opinion on the beer.

 

I get the mystique sentiment with Pliny ( I haven't yet had a Heady Topper), but I just think in Pliny's unique case it is most definitely worth the hype IMO.  It really is that well done, and Vinny at RR arguably invented the style with his Blind Pig IPA before he came up with Pliny.  It's been voted the best beer in America seven years in a row by the AHA's Zymurgy magazine readership.  Those folks aren't your average every day hipsters succumbing to the changing winds of hype, instead they are the geekiest of beer geeks who judge with discerning palettes.  But still..different strokes and all that...

 

Out of IPA's that I've had the ones that I'd say are in the same ballpark with Pliny would be Wicked Weed Freak of Nature, Firestone Walker Union/Double Jack and Bell's Two Hearted and even though it was many years ago, I do remember being blown away by ST's Unearthly, but I'll have to try a bottle from the brewery when I'm up at Chautauqua Lake next week.. In the next tier would be Great Divide Hercules, Stone Ruination and Victory Hop Wallop.  Personally I'm not much of a fan of DogFish Head 90 minute as it's too heavy on the crystal malt for my taste. 

 

I find Pliny's body to be too thin for my personal tastes.  It's a quality beer.  That said, the Zymurgy people are not necessarily your most discerning people.  A lot of them engage in brewer love.  They love Vinny and everything Russian River stands for.  They also love Sam, they love Ed Bell, especially when he used to tell NYS to suck it because their labeling laws were stupid.

 

The problem with so many brewers is that they see themselves as one of the big guys and immediately go fanboying all over their beers.

 

Craft brewers have not, as a rule, devoted a ton of attention to the lager side of the beer world. That's starting to change. But it's still fairly slim pickings.

 

Jack's Abby.  Find them, love them.  The only beer I've had of theirs that I did not think was perfectly executed was the collaboration they did with Evil Twin.  They only make lagers.  They are awesome.  Smoke & Dagger is incredible. Jabbybrau will take you back in a good way.  Honestly, love their beers.