Formerly Allan in MD Posted July 21, 2011 Report Posted July 21, 2011 Vanek should be the captain. Giving him more responsibility will make him less apt to take nights off. He showed late in the season that he could be a leader of sorts when key guys were injured and the team had to produce.
Weave Posted July 21, 2011 Report Posted July 21, 2011 You don't give the C to a guy that you think doesn't show up some nights hoping or expecting that he'll change. You give it to the guy who always shows up and has the moral authority to call out others that don't show up. Ideally that guy is one of your go to players.
SabreStu Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 Vanek shows up every night. He may not get in the score column each night, he may have crappy nights when nothing goes his way, but he's the best option this team has right now. Its time the Buffalo Sabres had the first Austrian captain in NHL history.
deluca67 Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 Shouldn't the question be, "Who deserves the 'C'?" I will always believe that the 'C' needs to be earned in the uniform it is to be placed on. I like the Regehr signing, he has yet to log a single shift in the Blue & Gold which makes giving him a letter a bad idea. There just isn't a viable Captain candidate on the roster. Myers seems the logical choice, it is just too soon.
Weave Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 Shouldn't the question be, "Who deserves the 'C'?" I will always believe that the 'C' needs to be earned in the uniform it is to be placed on. I like the Regehr signing, he has yet to log a single shift in the Blue & Gold which makes giving him a letter a bad idea. There just isn't a viable Captain candidate on the roster. Myers seems the logical choice, it is just too soon. I agree with all of this. I rather loath to get into conversations about who should be captain (yet I always end up drawn in). I suspect that folks end up crowing for their favorite player to be captain and don't fully consider what the position really is. It is about leadership and example setting (yeah, I know it's also about communcating with the coach on the players behalf and talking to the ref, but anyone can do that). You don't put someone in a leadership position and then they suddenly become a leader. Leaders need to be developed and THEN given the responsibility. Obviously, I'm not in the locker room but I get the sense that this team is still short on leaders. And the guys who do show leadership are role players who are not best suited to being captain. In my mind your captain needs to be a guy with big ice time numbers. But if he's not a natural leader you don't give him the C just because he's the star. He still needs to command respect and demand performance. I think a role player gets it this year and hands it over to Myers next year. I see Myers as starting to command respect already. And he's a big time performer who will have the moral authority to demand top performance from his team mates.
LGR4GM Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 we can argue for hours, days, months on this board who should be captain but honestly none of us are in that lockeroom or on the ice so we don't know who that guy is whom everyone respects. My guess is it starts with Ryan Miller who won't be captain and the next guy might be someone like Nathan Gerbe or Paul Gaustad. If (and since this will be -1 no matter what) i had to choose, i will say the following: Captain: Vanek because he can take it, and the real captain and leader will be Ryan Miller. Assistants: Regehr, Goose, Pommers, maybe gerbe Regehr gets an A just so the defense knows whose in charge and it will make it easier for him to assert some of his authority over the very young def corp... all and all I think this team is in the process of seeing and explosion of leadership...Gerbe, Myers, Ennis, Weber, are my projected leaders of tomorrow if they stay on the team but for now they need to simply learn. winning x2! :thumbsup:
notalent Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 Yeah Loungo was the Canucks captain for at least one year... it didn't work out. Captains or Alternates have specific roles to fill, namely, they are the ones who are allowed to interact with the referees during play stops. It's an interesting question...who will be the Sabres Captain this year? Vanek is definitely in the running...Roy deserves a look, Pommer...maybe..., Goose definitely gets a look, but Lindy Ruff has been pretty quiet about his descisions in the past. Does it go straight to Regehr?
qwksndmonster Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 we can argue for hours, days, months on this board who should be captain but honestly none of us are in that lockeroom or on the ice so we don't know who that guy is whom everyone respects. My guess is it starts with Ryan Miller who won't be captain and the next guy might be someone like Nathan Gerbe or Paul Gaustad. If (and since this will be -1 no matter what) i had to choose, i will say the following: Captain: Vanek because he can take it, and the real captain and leader will be Ryan Miller. Assistants: Regehr, Goose, Pommers, maybe gerbe Regehr gets an A just so the defense knows whose in charge and it will make it easier for him to assert some of his authority over the very young def corp... all and all I think this team is in the process of seeing and explosion of leadership...Gerbe, Myers, Ennis, Weber, are my projected leaders of tomorrow if they stay on the team but for now they need to simply learn. Regehr doesn't need a letter on his chest to take charge of our defensive corp. And I'm not sure if I agree with you that Ennis and Weber are tomorrow's leaders of this team. Yeah, Weber's a tough guy who defends his teammates, but it takes more than that. And I don't really know anything about Ennis's leadership, so you could be right there and I've just been ignorant to his leadership.
Campy Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 Who cares about who wears the C? Having a consonant embroidered on your sweater doesn't make you more (or less) a leader...
deluca67 Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 Who cares about who wears the C? Having a consonant embroidered on your sweater doesn't make you more (or less) a leader... I do, as does a lot of other fans. It's a hockey tradition that fans like to hold on to. It is a matter of what the 'C' stands. It often represents the identity of the team. It has been argued over the years that the Sabres have had no identity. For many of those years they did not have a true captain. It may just be a coincidence, IMO, there just may be something to it.
X. Benedict Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 Who cares about who wears the C? Having a consonant embroidered on your sweater doesn't make you more (or less) a leader... It's one discussion where I've never really had much to say. Internally....it establishes the deference order in the locker room. Externally.....it elects who jaws with the zebras. But to the fans....it is probably a matter of branding.
Eleven Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 Here's a fun little exercise that might inform the discussion (for those who don't think the team should just vote): Who was the Sabres best-ever captain? Why?
papazoid Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 probably a year early...but just get it over with and name Tyler Myers captain. other than miller, he is already the best player on the team and the future franchise player.
nfreeman Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 Shouldn't the question be, "Who deserves the 'C'?" I will always believe that the 'C' needs to be earned in the uniform it is to be placed on. I like the Regehr signing, he has yet to log a single shift in the Blue & Gold which makes giving him a letter a bad idea. There just isn't a viable Captain candidate on the roster. Myers seems the logical choice, it is just too soon. I agree with all of this, except that I think Gaustad earned it last year in the playoffs. we can argue for hours, days, months on this board who should be captain but honestly none of us are in that lockeroom or on the ice so we don't know who that guy is whom everyone respects. My guess is it starts with Ryan Miller who won't be captain and the next guy might be someone like Nathan Gerbe or Paul Gaustad. If (and since this will be -1 no matter what) i had to choose, i will say the following: Captain: Vanek because he can take it, and the real captain and leader will be Ryan Miller. Assistants: Regehr, Goose, Pommers, maybe gerbe Regehr gets an A just so the defense knows whose in charge and it will make it easier for him to assert some of his authority over the very young def corp... all and all I think this team is in the process of seeing and explosion of leadership...Gerbe, Myers, Ennis, Weber, are my projected leaders of tomorrow if they stay on the team but for now they need to simply learn. I'd be OK with Vanek getting an A, but not the C. I highly doubt Regehr will get the A as this would be yet another admission that the core of this team has no heart. I agree that Gerbe, Myers and Weber are the projected leaders of tomorrow. Not sure about Ennis but possible.
2ForTripping Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 probably a year early...but just get it over with and name Tyler Myers captain. other than miller, he is already the best player on the team and the future franchise player. Myers couldn't handle the extra weight he added before last season. The weight of captaincy is a few years off
Weave Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 Here's a fun little exercise that might inform the discussion (for those who don't think the team should just vote): Who was the Sabres best-ever captain? Why? Wow. Looking over the list of captains that the Sabres have had over the years you don't get the feel that there was lots of leadership behind the "C" for good chunks of their history. Players that strike me as prototypical captains Shoenfeld, Peca, LaFontaine, maybe Gare, Drury, Foligno Stars that never struck me as being leaders yet wore the C Satan, Mogilny, Perreault (I know, someone's feelings are gonna get hurt here but he didn't strike me as areal leader and was on the downside of his career when he assumed the C) Quite a few role players and best-of-a-mediocre-lot type of captains in there too.
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 Wow. Looking over the list of captains that the Sabres have had over the years you don't get the feel that there was lots of leadership behind the "C" for good chunks of their history. Players that strike me as prototypical captains Shoenfeld, Peca, LaFontaine, maybe Gare, Drury, Foligno Stars that never struck me as being leaders yet wore the C Satan, Mogilny, Perreault (I know, someone's feelings are gonna get hurt here but he didn't strike me as areal leader and was on the downside of his career when he assumed the C) Quite a few role players and best-of-a-mediocre-lot type of captains in there too. No one should get their feelings hurt, he didn't have that kind of personality ... but at that point in his career he was not a bad choice. Guys like Foligno, Ruff, Playfair ... they revered the guy and hung on his every word. The problem was probably that the team didn't have a Messier to play off his Gretzky (who also wore the C even though Messier was the conscience of that team).
Eleven Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 Wow. Looking over the list of captains that the Sabres have had over the years you don't get the feel that there was lots of leadership behind the "C" for good chunks of their history. Players that strike me as prototypical captains Shoenfeld, Peca, LaFontaine, maybe Gare, Drury, Foligno Stars that never struck me as being leaders yet wore the C Satan, Mogilny, Perreault (I know, someone's feelings are gonna get hurt here but he didn't strike me as areal leader and was on the downside of his career when he assumed the C) Quite a few role players and best-of-a-mediocre-lot type of captains in there too. Perreault was more of a "team dad" at the point he was captain; I don't think he was the type of guy to be a real dressing room leader. Very humble and unassuming; not the type of guy who is going to fire people up. It may have been more of an honorific than anything. So back to the question: who do you think was best and why?
FolignosJock Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 I was a big Gratton fan and was upset when he was traded while he was our captain and leading scorer.... EDIT: I know that team was horrible but i dont think he was a bad captain
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 Perreault was more of a "team dad" at the point he was captain; I don't think he was the type of guy to be a real dressing room leader. Very humble and unassuming; not the type of guy who is going to fire people up. It may have been more of an honorific than anything. So back to the question: who do you think was best and why? Good way of putting it on Bert. I don't know how you measure "best" exactly, but I think Drury may have been the most important ... they went and got him specifically to help change the culture and he did it, and at a very important time. Golisano "saved" the team, but if they had kept losing how long would he have hung around with 4,000 empty seats every night and the team losing money? Drury had a lot of help, but there's no denying he was a big part of changing the attitude of the franchise.
FolignosJock Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 Good way of putting it on Bert. I don't know how you measure "best" exactly, but I think Drury may have been the most important ... they went and got him specifically to help change the culture and he did it, and at a very important time. Golisano "saved" the team, but if they had kept losing how long would he have hung around with 4,000 empty seats every night and the team losing money? Drury had a lot of help, but there's no denying he was a big part of changing the attitude of the franchise. He was definately the most important... If I had to say the best I would have to go with Pat LaFontaine not only for scoring presence but as a person he just seems like someone I would follow.
james duncan Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 Perreault was more of a "team dad" at the point he was captain; I don't think he was the type of guy to be a real dressing room leader. Very humble and unassuming; not the type of guy who is going to fire people up. It may have been more of an honorific than anything. So back to the question: who do you think was best and why? All I can do is base it on what we hear and see. Clearly a lot goes on that we have no knowledge of. That being the case: I think LaFontaine eeks it out over Peca. (With Schoeny third.) Both played bigger than they were and were class acts. Neither took shifts much less games off and were accountable to their team, the press the organization and the fans. Both played hurt, seemed to lead by example and I got the opinion that everyone in the dressing room respected them and had their back. It still makes no sense to me as to how both were rewarded for all of their effort.
Weave Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 So back to the question: who do you think was best and why? How is "best" defined? I surely don't know but I can take a reluctant stab at your question anyway I guess. I wasn't old enough to really appreciate Schony so any labeling of "best" by me can't include him. I can probably say the same about Gare but my gut tells me he was second fiddle to Schony anyway so he wouldn't be on top here. That leaves Peca, Drury, LaFontaine, and Foligno. Of these, I think LaFontaine gets my nod as our best captain. He was the face of the team to the public. His on ice performance was truly inspiring. He was a "whatever it takes" kind of player. He spoke up. I believe history shows that he got the most out of his teammates (see Mogilny especially). He played hard every night that his health allowed. I think that last sentence is extremely important. Playing hard every night gave him the authority to demand hard play from his teammates on nights where maybe they weren't playing as hard as they could have. And he was an extremely intense and focused individual. In my opinion, intensity is a communicable disease. A leader of a sports team needs to wear their intensity on their sleeves to set an example to others. I think Schony was right up there with LaFontaine in intensity and hard play and leading by example on the ice. And he was obviously a very effective vocal leader too. He was a key guy on his team getting top minutes. Where Schony lacks in comparison to LaFontaine is, while a very very good defenseman, he wasn't at LaFontaine's level of awe inspiring performance. And he wasn't nearly the face of the team to the public that LaFontaine was. Peca, Drury, and Foligno all had some of LaFontaine's characteristics, but none of them had all of his characteristics. Peca probably comes closest from these three. He was the face fo the team, was a willing vocal leader, was a key member of the team (a star almost) and played hard every night that he could.
Eleven Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 Ok. Then I guess, for those who think a captain should be selected and not elected, the next question is, who on the team is most like LaFontaine? EDIT: Make no mistake, I realize that the team doesn't have a player with his numbers. I mean who is most like him, not who is like him.
Weave Posted July 22, 2011 Report Posted July 22, 2011 Ok. Then I guess, for those who think a captain should be selected and not elected, the next question is, who on the team is most like LaFontaine? EDIT: Make no mistake, I realize that the team doesn't have a player with his numbers. I mean who is most like him, not who is like him. IMO Myers is closest. Myers has alot of room to grow yet but I see the game to game intensity from him. He's a key guy on the team that puts in big minutes and is heavily relied upon. But I don't think he's ready for a C on his chest yet.
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