Drury

[LGR4GM]

:death:

 

Muckler did tell Quinn to go to hell when Larry was playing douchebag poker with him and Nolan. Muckler is the type of guy that would have cut out Quinn's kidney with a hunting knife in the HSBC men's room by year number 2, let alone a decade later.

 

Poor John.....had to go live in New York City for a few years. Stunk it up, then builds a cup team from near scratch in Ottawa.

 

I would love to see where, and how fast Darcy would end up if he left the Sabres over the past 4 years.

 

 

Again....if you are happy. I respect your knowledge and insight on everything. I just think either you are too close to the situation somehow, or for as much as I value you as a source... don't want you picking my army.

Im not happy with DR but what are you going to do about it hes not going anywhere lol. In all seriousness if darcy sucks this july ive seen enough bring in dudley or whomever and lets move on. Im sick of the excuses and we lost in 05-06 because regier did not get a defender at the deadline, he should have sold the farm to make this team better but didnt whether or not he could remains a question for debate but I will give til july 3 to pass my judgement although I swear to god if he drafts a freaking defender in the first round i will pass judgement then.

[shrader]

Yes.....but let's look at the past year.

 

Stafford 31 g 21 a 52 pts in 62 games

Horton 26 g 27 a 53 pts in 80 games

 

So yes......Horton had more points this year but

 

as the Sesame Street song goes...."one of these things is not like the others..."

 

I'll give him credit for one thing. At least he's been consistent over the years in ignoring points per game. Most probably won't agree with that, but just this once, he's stuck to his guns on that one.

[X. Benedict]

:death:

 

Muckler did tell Quinn to go to hell when Larry was playing douchebag poker with him and Nolan. Muckler is the type of guy that would have cut out Quinn's kidney with a hunting knife in the HSBC men's room by year number 2, let alone a decade later.

 

Poor John.....had to go live in New York City for a few years. Stunk it up, then builds a cup team from near scratch in Ottawa.

 

I would love to see where, and how fast Darcy would end up if he left the Sabres over the past 4 years.

 

 

Again....if you are happy. I respect your knowledge and insight on everything. I just think either you are too close to the situation somehow, or for as much as I value you as a source... don't want you picking my army.

 

Wait a second.......Muckler in Ottawa chose Redden and let Chara walk for nothing (Ouch!)...traded Hossa for Heatley (debatable wash) and traded Martin Havlat for Tom Pressing (ouch!)...Brooks Laich for Peter Bondra (ouch!) and never won ........he found 2 players in 7 years of drafting in Ottawa....Mezaros and Eaves. (edit: forgot Nick Folgino so...I'll give him 3 players)

 

 

Jakub Klepis and Brian Lee with top 10 picks ????

 

Mucks did a lot to hurt a great core in Ottawa. You wouldn't forgive Darcy so soon for that record.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Wait a second.......Muckler in Ottawa chose Redden and let Chara walk for nothing (Ouch!)...traded Hossa for Heatley (debatable wash) and traded Martin Havlat for Tom Pressing (ouch!)...Brooks Laich for Peter Bondra (ouch!) and never won ........he found 2 players in 7 years of drafting in Ottawa....Mezaros and Eaves.

 

 

Jakub Klepis and Brian Lee with top 10 picks ????

 

Mucks did a lot to hurt a great core in Ottawa. You wouldn't forgive Darcy so soon for that record.

 

And he got a job in the biggest market in the world after telling Quinn to suck a lemon.

 

And even after FAILING in NY, another team gave him an immediate key to the city, which he used to get them to a Cup. Who is the one team that people in Buffalo didn't want to face for a span of 5 or so years?

 

 

The original point isn't to glorify Muckler. It was to point out Regier's personality flaw. Taro sees it as a strength. OK then. I will take him at face value. All I can do is see what my eyes see, hear what my ears hear, and feel what is in my gut.

 

I think the title of the Sabres '11-'12 Media Guide should be: "Hey! There's a Chance We Won't Be Bad."

[shrader]

Jakub Klepis and Brian Lee with top 10 picks ????

 

Well that top 10 pick did land them Vaclav Varada...

 

edit: I found this interesting, so I might as well share. Looking into that trade a bit, I never realized that when we originally traded Bodger for Varada, we also got the first round pick that was used to draft Danny Briere. We then eventually packaged that pick with Craig Muni, sent them to Winnipeg and got Grosek and Darryl Shannon in return. That pick went on quite an adventure that year.

[X. Benedict]

Well that top 10 pick did land them Vaclav Varada...

:lol:

edit: I found this interesting, so I might as well share. Looking into that trade a bit, I never realized that when we originally traded Bodger for Varada, we also got the first round pick that was used to draft Danny Briere. We then eventually packaged that pick with Craig Muni, sent them to Winnipeg and got Grosek and Darryl Shannon in return. That pick went on quite an adventure that year.

 

Cool story.

[X. Benedict]

And he got a job in the biggest market in the world after telling Quinn to suck a lemon.

 

And even after FAILING in NY, another team gave him an immediate key to the city, which he used to get them to a Cup. Who is the one team that people in Buffalo didn't want to face for a span of 5 or so years?

 

The pieces were already there for Muckler.

 

The original point isn't to glorify Muckler. It was to point out Regier's personality flaw. Taro sees it as a strength. OK then. I will take him at face value. All I can do is see what my eyes see, hear what my ears hear, and feel what is in my gut.

 

I think Darcy will have the latitude to make moves again. That's all I'll say. The drafting has been good. The next two weeks will tell us a lot about how Darcy plays with resources and full financial backing (the draft). The next three weeks will even tell us more. (UFA)

 

I'm not ready to criticize moves that don't exist yet.

[Taro T]

:death:

 

Muckler did tell Quinn to go to hell when Larry was playing douchebag poker with him and Nolan. Muckler is the type of guy that would have cut out Quinn's kidney with a hunting knife in the HSBC men's room by year number 2, let alone a decade later.

 

Poor John.....had to go live in New York City for a few years. Stunk it up, then builds a cup team from near scratch in Ottawa.

 

I would love to see where, and how fast Darcy would end up if he left the Sabres over the past 4 years.

 

 

...

Muckler inherited a team in Ottawa that was coming off a run of 103, 95, 109, and 94 point seasons. He had Alfie, Hossa, Havlat, Bonk, Chara, Redden, Phillips, Fisher, McEachern, Neil, Kelly, Spezza, White, Gleason, & Hnidy among others on the team or in the system. How exactly is that inheriting "near scratch?"

 

And Muckler did NOT tell the Knoxes to go F themselves. They put him in the same place that Rigas put Regier and the same place that Golisano/Quinny put Regier. He lived w/ constraints for multiple years in Buffalo.

 

Muckler did not tell Quinny to take the job and shove it. He was fired by Quinny.

 

Muckler had to wait 5 years to be named GM again. Those jobs don't fly open every year. Had Regier left in '07, I'd expect he'd've found another GM job by now but don't know that for certain.

[X. Benedict]

Muckler inherited a team in Ottawa that was coming off a run of 103, 95, 109, and 94 point seasons. He had Alfie, Hossa, Havlat, Bonk, Chara, Redden, Phillips, Fisher, McEachern, Neil, Kelly, Spezza, White, Gleason, & Hnidy among others on the team or in the system. How exactly is that inheriting "near scratch?"

 

Wow, were they loaded, or what?

 

Now they are talking about spending to the floor.

[Taro T]

And he got a job in the biggest market in the world after telling Quinn to suck a lemon.

 

And even after FAILING in NY, another team gave him an immediate key to the city, which he used to get them to a Cup. Who is the one team that people in Buffalo didn't want to face for a span of 5 or so years?

 

 

The original point isn't to glorify Muckler. It was to point out Regier's personality flaw. Taro sees it as a strength. OK then. I will take him at face value. All I can do is see what my eyes see, hear what my ears hear, and feel what is in my gut.

 

I think the title of the Sabres '11-'12 Media Guide should be: "Hey! There's a Chance We Won't Be Bad."

I might spin that Strangers job as 'his best friend gave him a chance to get back on his feet after losing his job.' (And ironically enough, ~2 years later, that same best friend ended up canning him.)

 

And also ironically enough, the Sens would love to be able to truthfully use that title for the cover of THEIR '11-'12 media guide. Do you see that as being even remotely possible?

[Weave]

First round, Horton plays 7 games, gets 3 points.

First round, Stafford plays 7 games, gets 3 points.

First round, Pommers plays 5 games, gets 5 points.

 

Chz, that's a convenient filtering of the data. Now compare their career playoff stats.

 

Stafford - 20 games 3G 4A

Horton - 21 games 8G 9A

 

Horton had his first ever taste of playoffs this season and delivers. Stafford had a "breakout year" last year and what did we get out of him at crunch time? This alone is why trading for Horton is a better deal than giving up nothing to sign Stafford. One figured out how to deliver in the big time the first time he was exposed to it. The other has had three cracks at it now and hasn't figured out how to elevate his game, even in a breakout year.

[X. Benedict]

Im not happy with DR but what are you going to do about it hes not going anywhere lol. In all seriousness if darcy sucks this july ive seen enough bring in dudley or whomever and lets move on. Im sick of the excuses and we lost in 05-06 because regier did not get a defender at the deadline, he should have sold the farm to make this team better but didnt whether or not he could remains a question for debate but I will give til july 3 to pass my judgement although I swear to god if he drafts a freaking defender in the first round i will pass judgement then.

 

I'd be okay with a defensemen in the first round......esp. if it is Hamilton or Oleksiak.

 

Oleksiak is 6'7" 240 and a beast.

Hamilton just had a growth spurt and shot up to 6.7" and was already rated top in the top 5 at 6'3"

[spndnchz]

Chz, that's a convenient filtering of the data. Now compare their career playoff stats.

 

Stafford - 20 games 3G 4A

Horton - 21 games 8G 9A

 

Horton had his first ever taste of playoffs this season and delivers. Stafford had a "breakout year" last year and what did we get out of him at crunch time? This alone is why trading for Horton is a better deal than giving up nothing to sign Stafford. One figured out how to deliver in the big time the first time he was exposed to it. The other has had three cracks at it now and hasn't figured out how to elevate his game, even in a breakout year.

 

Sorry, your post (I thought) was stating this year and how the boys stepped up. As others have posted, if Stafford was inserted into Horton's line he'd be up there too.

[Weave]

Sorry, your post (I thought) was stating this year and how the boys stepped up. As others have posted, if Stafford was inserted into Horton's line he'd be up there too.

 

Is Krecji - Lucic supposed to be a better duo than Vanek - Roy? Stafford didn't put up the numbers when he had a decent center and 40 goal scoring winger either.

 

I really don't think Stafford has another gear he can grab in the playoffs.

 

 

Jeez. I just looked at the thread title. Man, have we gone off topic.

[LGR4GM]

Is Krecji - Lucic supposed to be a better duo than Vanek - Roy? Stafford didn't put up the numbers when he had a decent center and 40 goal scoring winger either.

 

I really don't think Stafford has another gear he can grab in the playoffs.

 

 

Jeez. I just looked at the thread title. Man, have we gone off topic.

But your talking about last year when the whole team was terrible in the playoffs every single player, and this year he didnt have roy as a center. Again I am willing to see 1 more year of drew before I decide if hes a lame duck or a stud

[Weave]

But your talking about last year when the whole team was terrible in the playoffs every single player, and this year he didnt have roy as a center. Again I am willing to see 1 more year of drew before I decide if hes a lame duck or a stud

 

*sigh*

 

No. No. No. For the second time today, I am talking about his career playoff stats, most of which did have Roy at center. He has NEVER elevated his game in the playoffs. And he seemed to do just fine this year without a center during the season. Hell, he had a career year without his center. He couldn't/didn't carry it over when the games mattered most.

[LGR4GM]

*sigh*

 

No. No. No. For the second time today, I am talking about his career playoff stats, most of which did have Roy at center. He has NEVER elevated his game in the playoffs. And he seemed to do just fine this year without a center during the season. Hell, he had a career year without his center. He couldn't/didn't carry it over when the games mattered most.

no its his rookie year essentially and the past two years so yea i am willing to give him this year and then if he cant cut it ditch him quicker than a speeding bullet for something more powerful than a locomotive. You have 3 years of playoffs the 06-07 playoffs were his rookie year so yea know, last year everyone sucked, this year he was alright but not great. Horton has this year with a top team if he had made the playoffs as a rookie he might have similar numbers you cant take those stats at face value was my point.

 

Here take out his rookie year, now add up all the points scored in the last 2 playoffs for the sabres than figure out the percentage that was drews and then do it for horton and that would be a good indicator of how that player is producing in relationship to his team. However Horton has been clutch for Boston this postseason.

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

*sigh*

 

No. No. No. For the second time today, I am talking about his career playoff stats, most of which did have Roy at center. He has NEVER elevated his game in the playoffs. And he seemed to do just fine this year without a center during the season. Hell, he had a career year without his center. He couldn't/didn't carry it over when the games mattered most.

you also have to take into account teams who horton has played vs who stafford has played.

 

This year horton was on a top seeded team. That equates to easier opponents to play against than say, a 7th seeded team would be dealing with.

I don't think many people realize how much ice Lucic opens up either. He's getting top line minutes with krejci and Lucic.

 

stafford has been second line MOST of the time, if not worse, his entire playoff career. Ever since stafford has been in the mix, we've been at the bottom of the food chain in terms of standings (save last year, but the whole team ###### the bed)

 

Not saying you're wrong, but it's far from cut and dry

[Weave]

no its his rookie year essentially and the past two years so yea i am willing to give him this year and then if he cant cut it ditch him quicker than a speeding bullet for something more powerful than a locomotive. You have 3 years of playoffs the 06-07 playoffs were his rookie year so yea know, last year everyone sucked, this year he was alright but not great. Horton has this year with a top team if he had made the playoffs as a rookie he might have similar numbers you cant take those stats at face value was my point.

 

Here take out his rookie year, now add up all the points scored in the last 2 playoffs for the sabres than figure out the percentage that was drews and then do it for horton and that would be a good indicator of how that player is producing in relationship to his team. However Horton has been clutch for Boston this postseason.

 

You forgot the Boston series. I suppose we could just excuse that as being OK too because Vanek was out for most of it.

 

We didn't give Connolly enough of a shake either. I mean, he was hurt all the time. We need to give him a shot when he's healthy for a good stretch. Otherwise we don't really know what he's capable of, right? And the rest of the team sucked so it shows poorly on him more than it would a good center on a good team, right? I think if he's healthy all next year and he still sucks THEN we should get rid of him. :blink:

 

ETA- My point is this; We make excuses for individual players year after year. And we've been doing it for 4 years now. Some guys have the talent but just don't have the temprament for playoff success. We have a few of them on this squad. Stafford is one. Roy is another. There always seems to be an excuse. Against Boston everyone was excused because we lost Vanek. This year it was "we had no centers". At some point the excuses need to be put away and their performance needs to be judged at face value. Gargnani managed to have a good series. Vanek's was reasonable too. Ennis had a better series than Stafford. In fact, over the last two post seasons Ennis is clobbering Stafford. He seems to be getting it done. Even whipping boy Pomminstein came through. Where was Staff these two years?

[LGR4GM]

You forgot the Boston series. I suppose we could just excuse that as being OK too because Vanek was out for most of it.

 

We didn't give Connolly enough of a shake either. I mean, he was hurt all the time. We need to give him a shot when he's healthy for a good stretch. Otherwise we don't really know what he's capable of, right? And the rest of the team sucked so it shows poorly on him more than it would a good center on a good team, right? I think if he's healthy all next year and he still sucks THEN we should get rid of him. :blink:

I did not forget it I said last year the whole team sucked. It was a fact. Stafford sucked too, i am just willing to say at this precise moment in time that Horton is a better playoff performer than stafford based off of Stafford rookie year the horrendous last year and the improving this year.

 

also stop being an assclown, ive been polite and pointed out some reasons why we should reconsider on stafford and you go and turn it around into some bs about connolly spare me the douchbaggery

 

also dont use players on this team other than drew to make your point. Stafford was not great but he had 3 points in 7 games and also TC was good in the playoffs once and he was good this year again, but no we should not keep him.

 

Stafford has only ever had 1 good shot at the playoffs and it was this year and I didnt think he was great or horrible so yea next year should be the deciding factor but apparently you simply believe no player ever gets better. No one ever grows up or learns anything its just whatever they did 4 years ago is how they will be today.

[Weave]

I did not forget it I said last year the whole team sucked. It was a fact. Stafford sucked too, i am just willing to say at this precise moment in time that Horton is a better playoff performer than stafford based off of Stafford rookie year the horrendous last year and the improving this year.

 

also stop being an assclown, ive been polite and pointed out some reasons why we should reconsider on stafford and you go and turn it around into some bs about connolly spare me the douchbaggery

 

I must have been editing my post while you were replying. There is more to my point.

 

As to the douchebaggery, that wasn't my intent and you missed the point pretty badly. I was applying the same sort of logic to Connolly that is being applied to Stafford. It was sarcastic, but if you think about it, why is it sarcastic and douchebaggery to apply that sort of logic to Connolly when it is supposedly perfectly reasonable to apply the same sort of logic to Stafford?

 

Dude, I'm not getting on your case. I'm just trying to make a point. I save being an assclown for the light hearted stuff. This game and forum isn't serious enough for me to get personal with someone about it.

 

Stafford has only ever had 1 good shot at the playoffs and it was this year and I didnt think he was great or horrible so yea next year should be the deciding factor but apparently you simply believe no player ever gets better. No one ever grows up or learns anything its just whatever they did 4 years ago is how they will be today.

 

By any objective measure he's had 3 good shots at it. Anything else is using an excuse.

[LGR4GM]

I must have been editing my post while you were replying. There is more to my point.

 

As to the douchebaggery, that wasn't my intent and you missed the point pretty badly. I was applying the same sort of logic to Connolly that is being applied to Stafford. It was sarcastic, but if you think about it, why is it sarcastic and douchebaggery to apply that sort of logic to Connolly when it is supposedly perfectly reasonable to apply the same sort of logic to Stafford?

 

Dude, I'm not getting on your case. I'm just trying to make a point. I save being an assclown for the light hearted stuff. This game and forum isn't serious enough for me to get personal with someone about it.

 

 

 

By any objective measure he's had 3 good shots at it. Anything else is using an excuse.

No he HASNT! He had his rookie year, he had last year where the whole team tanked and he had this year at most thats 1.5 good shots. Hes had 3 playoffs yes but 3 good shots to prove himself NO. Their is no logic being applied to TC he had the 05-06-07 years plus the last two and he always gets injured or underperforms thats 5 good showing of him not able to dominate so yes your logic is flawed, by your logic we should get rid of 95% of the roster, Weber didnt score he should go right? Just let it go, Horton and Stafford are not the same but Horton is not necessarily greater

[Weave]

No he HASNT! He had his rookie year, he had last year where the whole team tanked and he had this year at most thats 1.5 good shots. Hes had 3 playoffs yes but 3 good shots to prove himself NO.

 

I don't think objective means what you think it means. You are trying to apply a very subjective filter and calling it objective.

 

Their is no logic being applied to TC he had the 05-06-07 years plus the last two and he always gets injured or underperforms thats 5 good showing of him not able to dominate so yes your logic is flawed,

 

So the number is 5? We need to wait 5 playoffs before we decide?

 

by your logic we should get rid of 95% of the roster

 

:D I am sure there are a couple posters here are on board with losing 95%, I'm not one of them. But I do think we have 2 forwards in the top 6 that are holding us back. Stafford is one.

[LGR4GM]

I don't think objective means what you think it means. You are trying to apply a very subjective filter and calling it objective.

 

 

 

So the number is 5? We need to wait 5 playoffs before we decide?

 

 

 

:D I am sure there are a couple posters here are on board with losing 95%, I'm not one of them. But I do think we have 2 forwards in the top 6 that are holding us back. Stafford is one.

Thats fine if you think that but saying we've seen what stafford has to offer in the playoffs is false and TC wasnt a rookie in any of those years was he? Nope so yea if Drew had had 3 years last this year and next then yes I would feel confident judging him but as of right now, no there is no proof that he is holding this team back.

 

here to end this lets say that: I disagree with your logic and your stance and You disagree with my logic and my stance. Therefore neither is right or wrong. B-)

[Weave]

here to end this lets say that: I disagree with your logic and your stance and You disagree with my logic and my stance. Therefore neither is right or wrong. B-)

 

:thumbsup:

 

It's all opinion and perception. I don't come on here to get unanimous agreement. No mental excersize in that.