Eleven Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 Not sure what I think of that.. I don't really care what his cage looks like, as long as he stops the shots. Lots of goalies had slick-lookin' stuff in 98, 99, and 00, you know? But one guy had a pretty plain helmet.
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 Not sure what I think of that.. he had the coblestones design on last years mask as well, i loved the look of it. I think it'll pop a lot more in person versus the sketch.
shrader Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 Jhonas' cage: But why would he have someone working on that when he's talking to KHL teams? ;)
wonderbread Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 I don't really care what his cage looks like, as long as he stops the shots. Lots of goalies had slick-lookin' stuff in 98, 99, and 00, you know? But one guy had a pretty plain helmet. Smell that nostalgia...Kinda stings at the nostrils.
carpandean Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 Still I have yet to see where Enroth is nowhere near ready to "carry the load" as a lot say, but Millers AHL credentials made him over the top ready. If Miller was ready than so is Enroth. Enough with the excuses. Miller has 1 more year to prove he is the man. I don't think most are saying that he's nowhere near ready, but rather that he hasn't proven that he's ready; certainly not to the point where a smart move would be to trade Miller. Really, Miller hadn't proven it when he came in, either. It worked, but it was far from a guarantee. My point was that circumstances created a better opportunity for Miller to get a real chance at the starting spot right off the bat in 2005-06 than Enroth will have this year. Miller is the established #1 and unlike Marty in 2004-05, did not have last year off. Had Miller played his last game in 2009-10, then Enroth would probably be given a better shot, too. That's not the case, so Miller will be the #1 at the start. Of course, we could always have a Bruins 2009-10 situation, which would result in Enroth taking over as the #1 partway through the season.
Marvelo Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 Smell that nostalgia...Kinda stings at the nostrils. there's always this mask...
Robviously Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 Fair enough. Miller's AHL numbers are slightly better than Enroth's AHL numbers but Enroth's AHL playoff save % is a lot better than Millers. Still I have yet to see where Enroth is nowhere near ready to "carry the load" as a lot say, but Millers AHL credentials made him over the top ready. If Miller was ready than so is Enroth. Enough with the excuses. Miller has 1 more year to prove he is the man. Enroth also basically saved our season last year. If he doesn't come in and play the way he does, we probably don't make the playoffs. And if we miss the playoffs, does Regehr waive his NTC to come here? Does Ehrhoff decide he wants to sign here and not test the market? Hmmmm. I disagree with the part in bold though. Miller is the no.1 and I think it would take a catastrophe for him to lose that spot this season. I just want to see how he does in a regular season where we limit him to 60 games. Even if he complains about wanting to play more, Ruff should get him on a schedule where he isn't being run into the ground. I think he (and the team) would be much better in the long run that way.
wacollin Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 I don't think the team is ready to go with Enroth and trade Miller. Nothing else really matters. But while there are a few people that think Enroth is better and we can get a premium for Miller I think the larger majority on this board think that is not true. While like others I tend to value others opinions I think it's run it's course. Not going to change the vast majority of members minds and certainly not going to change the Sabres. So other than the fun, what's the point?
Robviously Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 I don't think the team is ready to go with Enroth and trade Miller. Nothing else really matters. But while there are a few people that think Enroth is better and we can get a premium for Miller I think the larger majority on this board think that is not true. While like others I tend to value others opinions I think it's run it's course. Not going to change the vast majority of members minds and certainly not going to change the Sabres. So other than the fun, what's the point? The fun always is, and always will be, the point of this message board. :thumbsup:
shrader Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 Enroth also basically saved our season last year. If he doesn't come in and play the way he does, we probably don't make the playoffs. And if we miss the playoffs, does Regehr waive his NTC to come here? Does Ehrhoff decide he wants to sign here and not test the market? Hmmmm. I know I'm in the minority here, but I really think Enroth is given far more credit for last year than is warranted. Yes, he was solid, but the team deserves just as much credit. I'm not so sure how a save percentage just barely north of .900 is the work of a savior. If you look at the numbers, during that stretch, the team was allowing less shots per game than their average for the season. They stepped up in a tough spot and earned their slot in the playoffs.
HopefulFuture Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 I know I'm in the minority here, but I really think Enroth is given far more credit for last year than is warranted. Yes, he was solid, but the team deserves just as much credit. I'm not so sure how a save percentage just barely north of .900 is the work of a savior. If you look at the numbers, during that stretch, the team was allowing less shots per game than their average for the season. They stepped up in a tough spot and earned their slot in the playoffs. I would normally agree with you on this, but quite frankly, the play of the team was no more or less focused when Enroth was in net as opposed to Miller. His performances were the key to our playoff appearance to be honest. He was especially good in the shootout games, both in earlier appearances as well as late in the season. I watched many defensive breakdowns that Miller was dealing with infront of Enroth as well. The kid brings the goods to the table in my opinion. What he does with them and how he sharpens them is up to him, but this kid is for real in my eyes.
nfreeman Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 I don't really care what his cage looks like, as long as he stops the shots. Lots of goalies had slick-lookin' stuff in 98, 99, and 00, you know? But one guy had a pretty plain helmet. Smell that nostalgia...Kinda stings at the nostrils. He was really something, innit? I know I'm in the minority here, but I really think Enroth is given far more credit for last year than is warranted. Yes, he was solid, but the team deserves just as much credit. I'm not so sure how a save percentage just barely north of .900 is the work of a savior. If you look at the numbers, during that stretch, the team was allowing less shots per game than their average for the season. They stepped up in a tough spot and earned their slot in the playoffs. They did indeed, but Enroth more than held up his end in a pretty high-pressure spot. He made quite a few key saves at key times, as Lindy likes to say. It remains to be seen whether he's starting material in the NHL, but he took full advantage of his opportunity.
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 I know I'm in the minority here, but I really think Enroth is given far more credit for last year than is warranted. Yes, he was solid, but the team deserves just as much credit. I'm not so sure how a save percentage just barely north of .900 is the work of a savior. If you look at the numbers, during that stretch, the team was allowing less shots per game than their average for the season. They stepped up in a tough spot and earned their slot in the playoffs. I agree with this as well. Jhonas is good, and thank god we had him. essentially he seems to be glorified because he played better than lalime. I do not think we make the playoffs if Lalime played those games instead.
Guest Sloth Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 I haven't put up a post in a while, but I am rather shocked/disappointed in the people that feel Enroth is not a good backup, possible starter in years come, and he is a guy that should be considered as "trade bait." I am very happy Enroth chose to stay in Buffalo. I may get slammed for this, but I believe the Sabres are on the brink of the Miller/Biron days. In this case, it'd be Miller/Enroth. Man, Buffalo is on the path of being scary good again.
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 I haven't put up a post in a while, but I am rather shocked/disappointed in the people that feel Enroth is not a good backup, possible starter in years come, and he is a guy that should be considered as "trade bait." I am very happy Enroth chose to stay in Buffalo. I may get slammed for this, but I believe the Sabres are on the brink of the Miller/Biron days. In this case, it'd be Miller/Enroth. Man, Buffalo is on the path of being scary good again. I just wanna go on record saying i do think ETHRON is going to be an excellent backup, and if he can stay true to form would be an excellent starter someday. I just think at this moment in time, many people are over valuing him from a contract standpoint. He got the money that his play (13 games?) warranted based off last year, especially considering his age. I'm happy he's here, and happy with the contract. As for the trade bait idea, I'd rather have him here 2 or 3 more years, because i think he could fetch some high end talent... that is, if we determine he is not the franchises future goalie.
inkman Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 I know I'm in the minority here, but I really think Enroth is given far more credit for last year than is warranted. Yes, he was solid, but the team deserves just as much credit. I think Enroth falls into the category many players have fallen into over the years. The unknown is greater than the known. Players like Gerbe, Ennis, Adam, Gragnani and Kassian all fall into this as well. Fans want to annoint them the next so and so without any basis other than a very limited set of data. All of those players could be all-stars just as much as they could be JAG. Nobody knows for certain but fans will continue to act as if they do know what will become of these players.
shrader Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 I think Enroth falls into the category many players have fallen into over the years. The unknown is greater than the known. Players like Gerbe, Ennis, Adam, Gragnani and Kassian all fall into this as well. Fans want to annoint them the next so and so without any basis other than a very limited set of data. All of those players could be all-stars just as much as they could be JAG. Nobody knows for certain but fans will continue to act as if they do know what will become of these players. It's so true. In fact, it kind of reminds me of your hopes for this year's Amerks squad. ;)
inkman Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 It's so true. In fact, it kind of reminds me of your hopes for this year's Amerks squad. ;) I'll be okay will Matt Ellis and Cory Tropp tearing up the "A". Seriously though, I expect the Amerks to be loaded on D. If Kassian, Adam, Foligno end up there (Hopefully Adam doesn't quit hockey after his traumatic experience with Lindy the horrible) that's just gravy. I fully expect the D to lead the team with Shiestal, Brennen, Biega, McNabb and possibly Morrissonn.
Robviously Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 I think Enroth falls into the category many players have fallen into over the years. The unknown is greater than the known. Players like Gerbe, Ennis, Adam, Gragnani and Kassian all fall into this as well. Fans want to annoint them the next so and so without any basis other than a very limited set of data. All of those players could be all-stars just as much as they could be JAG. Nobody knows for certain but fans will continue to act as if they do know what will become of these players. First bold part: That applies to pretty much every aspect of life, not just hockey. Second bold part: Is anyone acting like they "know" what players will develop into? Or is it more like fans are being optimistic about new, young players? Fan optimism, whether it's about new players or new seasons, is another thing that will always be disproportionate the reality. And I think that's a good thing. Sports would be a lot less fun if we were rational about our teams' chances, or the fact that the outcomes of these games have almost no bearing on our lives. "Fan" is short for fanatic.
carpandean Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 The big thing with talking about the unknown is making sure to temper your predictions with a realistic acknowledgement that the other extreme (or anything in between) could happen. It's not right to say that Enroth definitely will be a star #1, nor is it right to say that he definitely will be a flop; there simply isn't enough to back up either of those statements. However, it is reasonable to say something like, "based on what we saw last year, I think he really has the skills to be a star #1. I know that history is full of guys who came in looking great for a short stretch only to fall way short when given a real opportunity, but I'm cautiously optimistic that he'll be the exception." In the same light, it would be fair to say something like "I know that he looked good last year, but history is full of guys who came in looking great for a short stretch only to fall way short when given a real opportunity. I think he will get figured out. Hopefully, I'm wrong and he'll stay strong, but for now, I'm not holding my breath." I haven't seen anybody really make such an absolute statement as the two I said you can't make, but I have seen several posters respond as though someone had.
inkman Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 The big thing with talking about the unknown is making sure to temper your predictions... This. The biggest Gerbe haters last year (before he broke out) were his biggest supporters prior.
shrader Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 This. The biggest Gerbe haters last year (before he broke out) were his biggest supporters prior. At least my hate has been constant.
TheChimp Posted July 26, 2011 Report Posted July 26, 2011 Amazing how many wanted to throw a million a year at him, huh? Why is that amazing to you? Do you understand the difference between saying we think he was WORTH a million a season and knowing that the team could get away with paying him less? That the two concepts are mutually exclusive? No? It's OK if you don't, just admit it.
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 26, 2011 Author Report Posted July 26, 2011 Why is that amazing to you? Do you understand the difference between saying we think he was WORTH a million a season and knowing that the team could get away with paying him less? That the two concepts are mutually exclusive? No? It's OK if you don't, just admit it. It was "amazing" to me NOT because i doubt Enroth's "worth" as a backup goalie now or as a potential starting goalie in the future. I just don't know how to put a pricetag on that other than what similar young goalies are also getting paid and/or what he could get elsewhere. Based on those things, he's not "worth" a million a year in salary. He's "worth" his weight in gold if he is solid for 20-25 games this season, but I'm just saying that doesn't mean they needed to pay him that. If people knew the team could get him for $700K but felt he was "worth" $1 million and would be a bargain, that's fine, but that wasn't the discussion. People were complaining that they are lowballing him and saying "Just pay him already!" because they have been "throwing money around all summer" and saying "Something weird is going on" in Pegulaville or Hockey Heaven or whatever, as if they were disrespecting him and pinching pennies. That does not suggest to me that they were just discussing his "worth." They were complaining about how the team was handling the negotiation and either really believed he would end up getting $1 million a year or wanted to overpay him just because they could. And so yeah, that was amazing to me, because we discuss contracts and salary structure and all that a lot on here, and most of those same people have a pretty good grasp of player value and such. So it surprised me how it turned into an emotional argument to pay a guy quite a bit more than the market dictated.
LGR4GM Posted July 26, 2011 Report Posted July 26, 2011 It was "amazing" to me NOT because i doubt Enroth's "worth" as a backup goalie now or as a potential starting goalie in the future. I just don't know how to put a pricetag on that other than what similar young goalies are also getting paid and/or what he could get elsewhere. Based on those things, he's not "worth" a million a year in salary. He's "worth" his weight in gold if he is solid for 20-25 games this season, but I'm just saying that doesn't mean they needed to pay him that. If people knew the team could get him for $700K but felt he was "worth" $1 million and would be a bargain, that's fine, but that wasn't the discussion. People were complaining that they are lowballing him and saying "Just pay him already!" because they have been "throwing money around all summer" and saying "Something weird is going on" in Pegulaville or Hockey Heaven or whatever, as if they were disrespecting him and pinching pennies. That does not suggest to me that they were just discussing his "worth." They were complaining about how the team was handling the negotiation and either really believed he would end up getting $1 million a year or wanted to overpay him just because they could. And so yeah, that was amazing to me, because we discuss contracts and salary structure and all that a lot on here, and most of those same people have a pretty good grasp of player value and such. So it surprised me how it turned into an emotional argument to pay a guy quite a bit more than the market dictated. this is true, I think I might have even gone up to a million once on my enroth pricetag of course I thought he was making 850 and that was due to some bonus things and not his true salary so that throw me off but i think 675-775 was about the range I would have Put Enroth in considering this is his first NHL (basically) contract. He has a lot to prove and I am glad that we signed him for what we did. Shows something that he stayed here instead of going to the KHL for more money. At the end of the day Enroth is worth what he is getting and hopefully the sabres will win a few games BY THE PADDLE OF ETHRON!!!!! go to 24seconds into this and you will see:
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