X. Benedict Posted July 30, 2011 Report Posted July 30, 2011 "The Devils had filed for arbitration with Parise in June. He would have become an unrestricted free agent in 2012 had he not reached a new deal." I don't get this part. He is still a UFA next season contract or not, right? I don't think so....if they went to arbitration he would have been a UFA after a one-year. But he'll make 6M this year, and then he is an RFA next year, so the Devils will have to make a qualifying offer of 6M (100%) next year to keep his rights or he becomes a UFA (the club can't select to file Parise for Arbitration again)....if I understand the CBA correctly. So the Devils are looking at 12 M for 2 years as the starting point for negotiations and buying out his UFA status for the 3rd year if they want to keep him. (of course this might be totally wrong.....but that's my understanding).
deluca67 Posted July 30, 2011 Report Posted July 30, 2011 I don't think so....if they went to arbitration he would have been a UFA after a one-year. But he'll make 6M this year, and then he is an RFA next year, so the Devils will have to make a qualifying offer of 6M (100%) next year to keep his rights or he becomes a UFA (the club can't select to file Parise for Arbitration again)....if I understand the CBA correctly. So the Devils are looking at 12 M for 2 years as the starting point for negotiations and buying out his UFA status for the 3rd year if they want to keep him. (of course this might be totally wrong.....but that's my understanding). Capgeek has him at the $6 mil this season and a UFA next season.
X. Benedict Posted July 30, 2011 Report Posted July 30, 2011 Capgeek has him at the $6 mil this season and a UFA next season. I might have made a mistake on his career timeline.
Bullwinkle Posted July 30, 2011 Report Posted July 30, 2011 I think it's imperative that we get Parise. I've believed this for over a year - he is the missing piece we need to win the Cup. This guy has everything we need and is a LW to boot. If I were TP and Black, I'd do everything I could to get him after this season. On another note, we may not have to worry about another NHL lockout after next season. http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/41439-Proteau-No-reason-to-fear-another-NHL-lockout.html
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted July 30, 2011 Report Posted July 30, 2011 I think it's imperative that we get Parise. I've believed this for over a year - he is the missing piece we need to win the Cup. This guy has everything we need and is a LW to boot. If I were TP and Black, I'd do everything I could to get him after this season. On another note, we may not have to worry about another NHL lockout after next season. http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/41439-Proteau-No-reason-to-fear-another-NHL-lockout.html While i was reading that articles take on the guaranteed contracts, i was totally seeing Terry Pegula take the players side of the argument. We've said it a million times, he doesn't care about the money, I'd love to see him boost Buffalo's case in the eyes of players by standing up for their rights as well. I'm not worried about a lockout, and i think that if there is one, it'll be the last year Bettman resides as commissioner.
deluca67 Posted July 30, 2011 Report Posted July 30, 2011 While i was reading that articles take on the guaranteed contracts, i was totally seeing Terry Pegula take the players side of the argument. We've said it a million times, he doesn't care about the money, I'd love to see him boost Buffalo's case in the eyes of players by standing up for their rights as well. I'm not worried about a lockout, and i think that if there is one, it'll be the last year Bettman resides as commissioner. Bettman is the safest of all the Commissioners in sports. If he leaves it will be because he wants to.
Weave Posted July 30, 2011 Report Posted July 30, 2011 I think it's imperative that we get Parise. I've believed this for over a year - he is the missing piece we need to win the Cup. This guy has everything we need and is a LW to boot. If I were TP and Black, I'd do everything I could to get him after this season. On another note, we may not have to worry about another NHL lockout after next season. http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/41439-Proteau-No-reason-to-fear-another-NHL-lockout.html We already have Vanek and Ennis on LW, and they are both legit top 2 wingers. As far as I am concerned, LW is the last priority on this team. I wouldn't bother upgrading LW before we've upgraded center and RW.
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 Bettman is the safest of all the Commissioners in sports. If he leaves it will be because he wants to. I agree, but that's what I'm getting at. Another lockout is such a long-shot that i think if there did end up being one, he'll have gone wrong royally at some point.
Bullwinkle Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 We already have Vanek and Ennis on LW, and they are both legit top 2 wingers. As far as I am concerned, LW is the last priority on this team. I wouldn't bother upgrading LW before we've upgraded center and RW. I don't care what position he plays, we need him! He's better than anyone we currently have - including Vanek.
RazielSabre Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 I don't care what position he plays, we need him! He's better than anyone we currently have - including Vanek. Bloody hell, I do think your overrating him a little, his a good player, but at best his only as good as Vanek. I don't think he brings anything we don't already have. More important to NJD than to any other team really imho.
thesportsbuff Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 I think Parise is a much better all-around player than Vanek and would love to have him. I don't think LW vs RW makes much difference, I'm sure one of them could handle a switch to the opposite side. Actually I think I recall Vanek playing RW a little bit last year. Parise would be a nice pick up, maybe a deadline deal can be made if they're out of contention in March...
X. Benedict Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 I don't care what position he plays, we need him! He's better than anyone we currently have - including Vanek. It really depends what you are asking them to do. Parise is terrific in transition, and puts a billion shots on net from everywhere.
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 Bloody hell, I do think your overrating him a little, his a good player, but at best his only as good as Vanek. I don't think he brings anything we don't already have. More important to NJD than to any other team really imho. Parise is a top 10 offensive player in the league when healthy. He's better than Vanek. That being said, I don't think we need him. He's a great player, but I WANT A CENTER.
BetweenThePipes00 Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 You guys are getting ahead of yourselves unless you can find someone to take Pominville's contract. The Sabres have $49.7 million committed to just 15 guys for next season. Say the cap goes up to $67 million (which it may not but just for instance), that's $17.3 million in space for 8 guys ... you have to figure $8-9 million to lock up Myers and Ennis ... let's say $8.3 for easy math ... Parise is going to cost you $7 million at least ... so you are at $65 million with only 18 guys ... throw in Adam ($875K) and Kassian ($870K), and you are at $66.745 million for 20 guys ... so someone has to go, and it's tougher if the cap doesn't go up that much. It's not impossible ... you could probably get someone to take the last year of Leopold's contract if Gragnani steps up and squeeze under with Pominville ... but who's taking faceoffs, because Goose is gone too. Do you just give him the Leopold money? You are right up against it then with still two spots ... It's REALLY tight. Now, if they disappoint and they really want to shake it up and trade Vanek and replace him with Parise, that's a whole other story ... but there are a lot of moving parts in that scenario. If you wait until you sign Parise, everyone knows you need to dump salary and you are not getting full value. If you deal Vanek first, what if you swing and miss on Parise? It's a big risk ... I like Parise and would never say no to that kind of talent, even when they do have too many wings ... but unless you can get someone to take Pominville's deal off your hands, it's really asking a lot to put a team together that way ... you'll still be really shaky up the middle.
Bullwinkle Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 I understand the math is dicey and I wasn't considering it to that amount of detail. Conceptually Parise would give us the firepower we need. I'm sure TP & Co. can figure out the math if it were possible to get him. The hockey news is so scarce these days that I'm reduced to reading Ecklund. It means nothing, of course, but he stated that if Parise were to go it would be to either Toronto, Vancouver or Buffalo. I sure hope it's us. P.S. Parise is better than Vanek
BetweenThePipes00 Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 I understand the math is dicey and I wasn't considering it to that amount of detail. Conceptually Parise would give us the firepower we need. I'm sure TP & Co. can figure out the math if it were possible to get him. The hockey news is so scarce these days that I'm reduced to reading Ecklund. It means nothing, of course, but he stated that if Parise were to go it would be to either Toronto, Vancouver or Buffalo. I sure hope it's us. P.S. Parise is better than Vanek Well, as if you didn't already have to take Ek with a grain of salt, Buffalo is going to be mentioned by him even more now because surely many of his sources are agents, and they are all going to want Pegula's deep pockets in the mind of every team thinking about an offer. If it was me and Parise wanted to come play for me that badly, I'd find a way to move a winger to make room for him so that I give myself a chance to get better up the middle. Like I said, the math is not impossible, but it's really tight and my bigger concern would be you are still looking at Leino-Roy-Adam-McCormick up the middle with ZERO depth ... Hecht, Boyes, Gaustad are gone ... who is the next best center prospect after Adam? Catenacci? Doubt he will be ready yet ... I am just thinking if you are going to swing for the fences like that, you have to keep the end goal in mind, winning the Cup, not just rolling through the regular season. I just can't lose sight of the fact that for the next few years you probably have to go through Crosby/Malkin/Staal to get out of the East, and I just don't see how you do that with that group up the middle. It's not about numbers, the Sabres would have the "firepower" as you say ... but it's about actually playing a team like that for a seven-game series at the end of a long season with that thin center group at best. I would not like our chances.
LGR4GM Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 I think it's imperative that we get Parise. I've believed this for over a year - he is the missing piece we need to win the Cup. This guy has everything we need and is a LW to boot. If I were TP and Black, I'd do everything I could to get him after this season.On another note, we may not have to worry about another NHL lockout after next season.http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/41439-Proteau-No-reason-to-fear-another-NHL-lockout.html I don't care what position he plays, we need him! He's better than anyone we currently have - including Vanek. Unless you know something we don't vanek and parise are about even. Vaneks pts versus game ratio: 0.82 Parises pts versus game ratio: 0.81 I am sorry but Parise is not significantly better than Vanek to the point I would put him as a 'Must' Have. He would be a luxury because we already have someone like parise on the team. Sure there are other factors to consider but if we do that, Parise is coming off a season where he only played 13 games due to injury, Vanek had a negative reaction to losing briere and drury but last season showed he can put up 70+pts and I think he will do it again. Tyler Ennis is a wild card. Parise and vanek both had less points in their rookie season I am sorry but you can substantiate that Parise is 'the guy' we need or that Ennis won't be as good or that Vanek currently is not as good.
BetweenThePipes00 Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 Unless you know something we don't vanek and parise are about even. Vaneks pts versus game ratio: 0.82 Parises pts versus game ratio: 0.81 I am sorry but Parise is not significantly better than Vanek to the point I would put him as a 'Must' Have. He would be a luxury because we already have someone like parise on the team. Sure there are other factors to consider but if we do that, Parise is coming off a season where he only played 13 games due to injury, Vanek had a negative reaction to losing briere and drury but last season showed he can put up 70+pts and I think he will do it again. Tyler Ennis is a wild card. Parise and vanek both had less points in their rookie season I am sorry but you can substantiate that Parise is 'the guy' we need or that Ennis won't be as good or that Vanek currently is not as good. Obviously from my earlier posts I am not in total agreement with bullwinkle, but the points/game numbers for Parise are skewed by his rookie season. His last two healthy seasons were 94 and 82 points ... he's smaller and a totally different kind of player than Vanek, so it's not just about numbers either way, but at his best Parise is probably going to give you more in terms of flat-out production. On the other hand, swapping him for Vanek (in theory) gives you another winger under 6-feet to go with Ennis and Gerbe and Roy up the middle ... it's something to think about. You are preaching to the choir on Ennis ... bullwinkle loves him some Tyler Ennis. :thumbsup:
RazielSabre Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 Parise is a top 10 offensive player in the league when healthy. He's better than Vanek. That being said, I don't think we need him. He's a great player, but I WANT A CENTER. Meh, I was working off of gut instinct. I looked into it afterwards and yes, well, that teaches me lol. Still stand by the point that as you say, his not the type of player we need. Center/RW I think, but i'll be happy to wait until the season starts.
Bullwinkle Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 Unless you know something we don't vanek and parise are about even. Vaneks pts versus game ratio: 0.82 Parises pts versus game ratio: 0.81 I am sorry but Parise is not significantly better than Vanek to the point I would put him as a 'Must' Have. He would be a luxury because we already have someone like parise on the team. Sure there are other factors to consider but if we do that, Parise is coming off a season where he only played 13 games due to injury, Vanek had a negative reaction to losing briere and drury but last season showed he can put up 70+pts and I think he will do it again. Tyler Ennis is a wild card. Parise and vanek both had less points in their rookie season I am sorry but you can substantiate that Parise is 'the guy' we need or that Ennis won't be as good or that Vanek currently is not as good. I think Parise brings more to the table than Vanek. And for once, I'm not just talking about stats. I think he's more consistent, a better two-way player, and IMO a better leader. Vanek puts a lot of pressure on himself to perform. He reminds me of a pressure cooker whenever he doesn't perform to his own standards. Parise is just as intense, but is more relaxed into his game and I think will be more consistent. He hasn't as yet hit his peak. And as someone else mentioned, he shoots from every angle. As Pipes has said, you don't need to sell me on Ennis. But Parise is someone I would even consider trading Ennis for.
Bullwinkle Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 Well, as if you didn't already have to take Ek with a grain of salt, Buffalo is going to be mentioned by him even more now because surely many of his sources are agents, and they are all going to want Pegula's deep pockets in the mind of every team thinking about an offer. If it was me and Parise wanted to come play for me that badly, I'd find a way to move a winger to make room for him so that I give myself a chance to get better up the middle. Like I said, the math is not impossible, but it's really tight and my bigger concern would be you are still looking at Leino-Roy-Adam-McCormick up the middle with ZERO depth ... Hecht, Boyes, Gaustad are gone ... who is the next best center prospect after Adam? Catenacci? Doubt he will be ready yet ... I am just thinking if you are going to swing for the fences like that, you have to keep the end goal in mind, winning the Cup, not just rolling through the regular season. I just can't lose sight of the fact that for the next few years you probably have to go through Crosby/Malkin/Staal to get out of the East, and I just don't see how you do that with that group up the middle. It's not about numbers, the Sabres would have the "firepower" as you say ... but it's about actually playing a team like that for a seven-game series at the end of a long season with that thin center group at best. I would not like our chances. In the playoffs it's just not a matter of talent. Yes, Crosby/Malkin/Staal will be formidable. But it's a team game and as the Bruins demonstrated against Vancouver, team toughness can win the day. I'm hoping we develop that toughness (not just punching ourselves out of the series like we did against Philly) along with developing the talent we need. A few players with the fortitude of Gerbe will do well against a superstar team.
RazielSabre Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 Obviously from my earlier posts I am not in total agreement with bullwinkle, but the points/game numbers for Parise are skewed by his rookie season. His last two healthy seasons were 94 and 82 points ... he's smaller and a totally different kind of player than Vanek, so it's not just about numbers either way, but at his best Parise is probably going to give you more in terms of flat-out production. On the other hand, swapping him for Vanek (in theory) gives you another winger under 6-feet to go with Ennis and Gerbe and Roy up the middle ... it's something to think about. You are preaching to the choir on Ennis ... bullwinkle loves him some Tyler Ennis. :thumbsup: I think this would make size an issue for us again. Vanek can provide impressive production and has some size. Let's not forget Parise is getting a $1mill raise after playing 13 games. Not a kid I'd want on my team, too expensive to keep.
RazielSabre Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 In the playoffs it's just not a matter of talent. Yes, Crosby/Malkin/Staal will be formidable. But it's a team game and as the Bruins demonstrated against Vancouver, team toughness can win the day. I'm hoping we develop that toughness (not just punching ourselves out of the series like we did against Philly) along with developing the talent we need. A few players with the fortitude of Gerbe will do well against a superstar team. Chara and Thomas help...
X. Benedict Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 I think this would make size an issue for us again. Vanek can provide impressive production and has some size. Let's not forget Parise is getting a $1mill raise after playing 13 games. Not a kid I'd want on my team, too expensive to keep. Without Parise out the Devils weren't a very good team. With him back, they'll likely be back in the playoffs. That alone makes him worth it to them.
RazielSabre Posted August 1, 2011 Report Posted August 1, 2011 Without Parise out the Devils weren't a very good team. With him back, they'll likely be back in the playoffs. That alone makes him worth it to them. I'm not saying the Devils had a choice but it's still a hell of a raise for a year off. On a separate note, I thought more people would be after Zherdev. Lots of teams supposedly after skilled wingers and although his inconsistant by all accounts he still fits the bill.
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