Around the NHL 2011-2012

[Andrew Amerk]

I probably won't continue in this discussion (it's been repeated on this board at least a 1/2 dozen times), but I have to take exception to this post (at least in part).

 

Hasek NEVER gave any indication that he wanted out of Buffalo until after the Sabres got absolutely NOTHING for Peca (not even Peca himself) in a season that they ended up A fluke goal from having to beat a team they'd swept and then facing a team they beat in OT in their own barn during the regular season.

 

Hasek was involved in the local community. (Coached youth league sports and the like.) He had donated a lot of money to his Hasek's Heros foundation w/in a year of demanding his trade. Are those the sort of thing that athletes that want to skip town typically do prior to demanding a trade?

 

Hasek could have gotten more money when Rigas had given him a contract extension, but he didn't go as crazy in negotiations as he could have. He believed the 'I'll give the team the tools to get the job done' BS. And, btw, in '99, he DID carry a '2nd rate team on his back,' not just to the playoffs but to a tie in Game 6 of the SCF's. (I'm still waiting for the puck to drop at the blue line to Hasek's left.)

 

If the Criminals weren't undercapitalized and aware (Timmy was aware, at a minimum, I doubt John was, but still he let Timmy call the shots) of how extended they were, they'd've had much less acrimonious negotiations w/ Peca (and others) and at a minimum would have gotten an asset for him that year, or better yet, would have signed him to a contract he was worth. Hasek saw the writing on the wall, and after Gilmour bailed on them, decided after the season was over that he wanted out too. Hasek would have retired a Sabre if he hadn't felt betrayed by the Criminals.

 

(And getting off topic.) I've always been far more disappointed in Gilmour than I was in Dom. Yeah, he gave up a bad goal (on ~ the 12 shot of the 4th period) but he didn't quit on them. He could easily have given up a legit goal in OT about 6 separate times if he wanted to. Watch Gilmour on his breakaway, or on his backcheck on the game winner; and then tell me which one quit.

 

Taro, you are very right.

 

Sorry, I apologize, I know I exaggerated in parts of my quick rant.

 

Hasek could have went to almost any team that he wanted, but unfortunately he did influence where he went, and what was sent in return.

 

I dont hate the guy. I am very grateful for what he did for the team and community, and even at his current age he is still one of the best, if not THE best, goalie on our planet.

[spndnchz]

Bruins' GM today on Savard:

 

"Based on what I see, what I hear, what I read, and what I'm told, it's very unlikely Marc will play again," Chiarelli said. "Now, knowing the uncertainty of this injury, there's always a chance [he could play]. But based on what I'm told, it's very unlikely he'll play. As an employer, I support him and hope he gets back to living a healthy life."

[dEnnis the Menace]

Bruins' GM today on Savard:

 

"Based on what I see, what I hear, what I read, and what I'm told, it's very unlikely Marc will play again," Chiarelli said. "Now, knowing the uncertainty of this injury, there's always a chance [he could play]. But based on what I'm told, it's very unlikely he'll play. As an employer, I support him and hope he gets back to living a healthy life."

 

Wow that's huge. I'm really hoping that Pen's GM doesn't come out and say this regarding Crosby...

[shrader]

Major props to the Bruins for rushing him back before he was ready. :rolleyes:

[Andrew Amerk]

Ouch.

[Bullwinkle]

Major props to the Bruins for rushing him back before he was ready. :rolleyes:

 

I think Savard himself needs to take some responsibility for that decision too.

[X. Benedict]

I think Savard himself needs to take some responsibility for that decision too.

Can't say I agree.

 

 

The problem has been that "concussed people" have been making that decision.

 

Concussed people generally aren't known for their good decisions and should be bearing less responsibility for their return timelines.

[spndnchz]

The OHL says all players will wear soft cap shoulder and elbow pads this season to make game safer.

 

Probable for NHL? idk

[shrader]

The OHL says all players will wear soft cap shoulder and elbow pads this season to make game safer.

 

Probable for NHL? idk

 

Not when there's a union around making the false claim of safety.

[Taro T]

Can't say I agree.

 

 

The problem has been that "concussed people" have been making that decision.

 

Concussed people generally aren't known for their good decisions and should be bearing less responsibility for their return timelines.

Yeah, I have a hard time blaming an athlete for rushing back into the game too soon especially when he's suffered an injury that by definition has adversely affected his cognitive abilities.

 

You would hope that the people getting paid to maximize the team's assets wouldn't take the very high risk of such long term devaluation to those assets for the short term gain; but unfortunately, the coach and GM get paid to win today, not in a couple of years.

 

The league actually is getting much better, in general, at managing these injuries than they have done in the past; and are leaps and bounds ahead of where other pro leagues are currently. They are still working on the details of how to make it better, as there still is a lot unknown about the injuries and you will even have the players lying on occassion about what's going on in their melons to get to stay on the ice.

 

Got to hear the Pens team physician talk about concussions this weekend. It was a very interesting talk.

[LGR4GM]

Savard was a very good player and its a shame he will be missing this season for a concussion and he may be done with his entire career. Its sad and stupid and Matt Cooke should get beheaded by someone because he started Savards final downfall... god I hate cooke.

[Bullwinkle]

Can't say I agree.

 

 

The problem has been that "concussed people" have been making that decision.

 

Concussed people generally aren't known for their good decisions and should be bearing less responsibility for their return timelines.

 

 

I'm not so sure. Look at Crosby. He doesn't want to come back until he's 100%. The player has to know that he has a problem if he still has headaches. Add to that pressure from his family, who I'm sure don't want him to be permanently injured. If the guy knows something is still wrong he owes it to himself, his family, and his team to not play.

[X. Benedict]

I'm not so sure. Look at Crosby. He doesn't want to come back until he's 100%. The player has to know that he has a problem if he still has headaches. Add to that pressure from his family, who I'm sure don't want him to be permanently injured. If the guy knows something is still wrong he owes it to himself, his family, and his team to not play.

 

I think Taro nailed it.

 

Basically a concussion is brain trauma that results in neurobehavioural problems/symptoms.

We are in the infancy of understanding this stuff. Blaming those with brain trauma for their decision making is like blaming those with impaired vision for walking into things.

[Taro T]

I'm not so sure. Look at Crosby. He doesn't want to come back until he's 100%. The player has to know that he has a problem if he still has headaches. Add to that pressure from his family, who I'm sure don't want him to be permanently injured. If the guy knows something is still wrong he owes it to himself, his family, and his team to not play.

And he has the backing of his front office on that decision. They actually understand that it is in their best interest to keep him out a little longer to reduce the risk of permanent injury.

 

A concussed player won't necessarily be making the best decisions; and the concussed player shouldn't be put in the situation where HE makes the decision.

 

These guys are hockey players; that is what they know; that is what they do. They want to get back as quickly as possible - even Crosby, but he's had the potential ramifications of coming back too early explained to him in very stark detail. The player should not be put in the situation of being the one making the determination of whether he will return, because in the vast majority of situations the player will choose to come back immediately.

 

That Crosby may be thinking a bit more clearly than the typical concussed player doesn't shift the blame for the typical concussed player coming back too soon onto that player.

[Jeanbe]

Can't say I agree.

 

 

The problem has been that "concussed people" have been making that decision.

 

Concussed people generally aren't known for their good decisions and should be bearing less responsibility for their return timelines.

 

I agree with this assessment. You can't expect a person with a concussion to make a 100% decision. Not with teams, agents and corporate sponsors pressuring them. There are too many outside of them to make money off of them to not be to blame as well. I hope Marc Savard all the best. He is a talented hockey player and no one should see their career ended this way.

[Bullwinkle]

I think Taro nailed it.

 

Basically a concussion is brain trauma that results in neurobehavioural problems/symptoms.

We are in the infancy of understanding this stuff. Blaming those with brain trauma for their decision making is like blaming those with impaired vision for walking into things.

 

You guys probably know more about this than I do. In my 17 year playing career I have been fortunate enough to have never suffered a concussion, so I don't have first hand experience of what it is like. Perhaps you guys are right. I bow to your and Taro's experience.

[korab rules]

Yeah, I have a hard time blaming an athlete for rushing back into the game too soon especially when he's suffered an injury that by definition has adversely affected his cognitive abilities.

 

You would hope that the people getting paid to maximize the team's assets wouldn't take the very high risk of such long term devaluation to those assets for the short term gain; but unfortunately, the coach and GM get paid to win today, not in a couple of years.

 

The league actually is getting much better, in general, at managing these injuries than they have done in the past; and are leaps and bounds ahead of where other pro leagues are currently. They are still working on the details of how to make it better, as there still is a lot unknown about the injuries and you will even have the players lying on occassion about what's going on in their melons to get to stay on the ice.

 

Got to hear the Pens team physician talk about concussions this weekend. It was a very interesting talk.

It's a lot easier for Crosby to make this decision than the Wade Belaks of the world. Wade and guys like Kaleta and Andro Peters can be replaced at the drop of a hat. Miss too many games, and they may be dropped like a hot potato. The pressure on them to maintain a career that is hanging on by a string is immense. Stars like Crosby don't have that same pressure. The league will wait for him to recover. The league taking the decision away from the player and away from the teams and placing it in the hands of doctors who compare post-concussion test results to pre-concussion tests was a huge advance. Unfortunately, it's just a matter of time until fringe players start performing poorly on those pre-concussion tests to make it easier to come back early from the inevitable concussions that result from their style of play.

[shrader]

I think Taro nailed it.

 

Basically a concussion is brain trauma that results in neurobehavioural problems/symptoms.

We are in the infancy of understanding this stuff. Blaming those with brain trauma for their decision making is like blaming those with impaired vision for walking into things.

 

I remember seeing reports that he was still having headaches when he came back for that playoff series against Philly and through that offseason. I can't figure out how that goes unnoticed and how he passes his baseline tests to even come back for that series, nevermind how out of shape he had to have been at that point.

[Andrew Amerk]

I remember seeing reports that he was still having headaches when he came back for that playoff series against Philly and through that offseason. I can't figure out how that goes unnoticed and how he passes his baseline tests to even come back for that series, nevermind how out of shape he had to have been at that point.

 

Having a headache is a lot easier to hide than a broken leg.

 

"Hey, Marc, having any symptoms? Any headaches?"

 

"Nope."

[Calvin]

Concussed people generally aren't known for their good decisions and should be bearing less responsibility for their return timelines.

Raises an interesting question pertaining to the Sabres - should Connolly have been held out longer?

 

And in a lighter vein, is Brian Burke concussed, signing TC to that contract?

[korab rules]

Raises an interesting question pertaining to the Sabres - should Connolly have been held out longer?

 

And in a lighter vein, is Brian Burke concussed, signing TC to that contract?

Yes, he should have been held out forever.

 

As to your second question, the likely answer is yes. An alternative explanation is that he finally found Pat Quinn's secret stash of booze.

[shrader]

Raises an interesting question pertaining to the Sabres - should Connolly have been held out longer?

 

And in a lighter vein, is Brian Burke concussed, signing TC to that contract?

 

His concussions were years apart. I don't know how much more they could have done with him. Physically he probably wasn't up to par back in the 2007 playoffs, but that's not a question about his head.

[X. Benedict]

You guys probably know more about this than I do. In my 17 year playing career I have been fortunate enough to have never suffered a concussion, so I don't have first hand experience of what it is like. Perhaps you guys are right. I bow to your and Taro's experience.

I'm not trying to win an argument or really claim any special experience.

 

In our day athletes played concussed all the time, usually you returned as soon as you remembered your middle name and the day of the week. So more than claiming any special experience, I think that medicine and technology should eclipse the culture inherent in sports, namely - athletes have been trained to play through pain - None more so than NHL players.

 

Years later when I run into friends that played through multiple concussions, I realize that the guys who were known for their toughness just ain't right in the head. One in particular will live the rest of his life with the cognition of a 12 year old.

[X. Benedict]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Dustin-Byfuglien-accused-of-drunken-boating-wei?urn=nhl-wp11599

 

Byfuglien charged with BWI (boating while intoxicated) weighs in at 286?!

 

In other news.....his nickname has been officially changed from Big Buff to Big Buffetline

[korab rules]

#dustinbuffetlineissofat