thesportsbuff Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 kind of a cool side story: i think i played online video games with Mike Weber a few times when he was 17-18. i can't verify/prove it but i'm pretty positive it was him -- he played for a team on the game SOCOM: US NAVY SEALs. i wasn't on the team but my team played with them a lot in public rooms. he disappeared and i asked "where's THEREDBARON (his socom name) been" and they told me that he got drafted to the NHL... I was skeptical and asked who he was etc, they said his name was Mike Weber and that the Sabres drafted him. Of course they could have been lying, or he could have been lying to them, but I assume there probably weren't that many people back then trying to impersonate Mike Weber. And they didn't know I was from WNY, so they probably weren't just toying with me..
Bullwinkle Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 I'm still waiting for RJ to call a Mike Weber goal with "he put some mustard on that shot." RJ would never say that. That is a Harry Neale type of witticism, which RJ never seems to get.
Bullwinkle Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 Just like all the offer sheet Stamkos signed this year? Teams are not going to go that route. If anyone gets Weber it will be via trade. That said, Weber will wind up opting for arbitration again next year long before it ever get to that point. With that said, the guy Nashville loses next year (and possibly sooner) due to all of this is Ryan Suter. You can't compare this year's lack of offer sheets with what might happen if Weber is still in Nashville at the end of next season. TB was in the process of trying to sign Stamkos and everyone knew he wanted to sign there. Weber will not be in the same position. Of course this is probably a moot point because I don't think Nashville will keep Weber around that long unless they extend him during the year. Trade bait for sure. Further information: Weber can elect to go to arbitration next summer as well, in which case he'll be a UFA in 2013. Also, of the last 10 arbitrations, 9 of those players were traded that year. The 10th, Shaone Morrissonn, was traded 2 years later. So the probability of Weber wearing a different jersey this time next year is pretty damned high. P.S. I agree with you about Suter which also includes Rinne.
RazielSabre Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 Obviously it is hypothetical since we'd need to dump a ton of salary to get him, but I personally think that Weber is the best all-around defenseman in the game right now (or at least on par with Chara & Keith), and he is still young. He physically dominates night in and night out and is the undisputed team leader on the ice. IMHO, if you get a chance to get a defenseman like that in their prime you do it. Most recent Cup winners seem to have that dominating presence on the blue line (Chara, Keith, Lidstrom, Pronger, S. Niedermayer, etc.). I'm probably a bit biased because I have Preds season tickets, but I think if Weber were playing in a bigger market he'd be one of the biggest stars in the league right now. Watching him first-hand you realize how much better he is than others at his position. I love the moves the Sabres have made, but I personally would trade both Regehr AND Ehrhoff for Weber. *end of Weber love-fest :D Sorry but imho that still goes to Lidstrom. I still think his too expensive as a single Dman, I'd rather have a strong unit than a single star. Myers should be damn good anyway, I think we'd lose more as a team than we'd gain. The Preds aren't playing this the way it probably should be played, on the other hand we just don't know the details. It could be that he doesn't want to be there anyway and will request a trade at some point. If he does, good luck to him elsewhere, I don't particularly want a player who's insisted on being moved.
wjag Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 Today's Ruling: 1 year and $7.5 million for Shea Weber. Now that's a nice payday...
shrader Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 You can't compare this year's lack of offer sheets with what might happen if Weber is still in Nashville at the end of next season. TB was in the process of trying to sign Stamkos and everyone knew he wanted to sign there. Weber will not be in the same position. Of course this is probably a moot point because I don't think Nashville will keep Weber around that long unless they extend him during the year. Trade bait for sure. Further information: Weber can elect to go to arbitration next summer as well, in which case he'll be a UFA in 2013. Also, of the last 10 arbitrations, 9 of those players were traded that year. The 10th, Shaone Morrissonn, was traded 2 years later. So the probability of Weber wearing a different jersey this time next year is pretty damned high. P.S. I agree with you about Suter which also includes Rinne. How about I compare it to every single year's lack of offer sheets? There's been about 4 post-lockout and none in the last 3 years. Teams do not want to go that route. There's far too much uncertainty, not to mention the very steep price involved in signing a guy of Weber's caliber. Yes, a lot of fans would say "yeah, I'd pay that price" for someone like him, but the teams view those picks in a much higher regard.
BetweenThePipes00 Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 Based on quotes from both sides, it appears the term, not the money, was the issue with the Weber situation: http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110804/SPORTS02/308040042/Weber-will-receive-7-5-million-from-Preds?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Sports Weber is still saying all the right things about loving it here and wanting to get something done, but I talked to someone in the local media last night who said one option proposed by Weber was just a 2-year deal.. in other words, he wants to stay but he doesn't want to give up any UFA years either. If they can somehow extend Suter and/or Rinne and show him they can keep it together, maybe they have a chance ... but the longer it goes, the tougher it gets. I agree they are in a bad spot and probably will end up trading him, but I can't bash them for making a "bad move" ... they did what they had to do to protect themselves from an offer sheet while they worked on a deal. They are still doing that, essentially they just know what the number is for the first year. If they have to trade him, his new team also knows that now and doesn't have the pressure to get a new deal done before camp, because it's already done. Something else to consider, but I am not 100% certain, so maybe someone who knows the CBA better can chime in: Restricted free agents are still free agents, meaning they can talk to other teams to work out offer sheets and such ... but in a case like this where the team chooses arbitration and no offer sheet is allowed, does that prevent other teams from talking to them? I ask because while a team may not actually do an offer sheet, what's to stop them from recruiting for next season? For instance, what's to stop Detroit from going to Weber or Doughty and saying "We may not have room for you this season, but Lidstrom is going to retire, so if you are an RFA (or UFA) next season, we'll have a big offer sheet (or contract) waiting." If choosing arbitration keeps Weber from hearing that kind of thing, perhaps that played into their thinking.
shrader Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 That's a good question BTP. That sounds like a good old fashioned case of tampering to me.
BetweenThePipes00 Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 That's a good question BTP. That sounds like a good old fashioned case of tampering to me. In a way but if a guy is free agent of any sort, how can it be tampering? Yeah you get the right to match an offer sheet, but technically that guy is not your player, he has no contract. So why can't I mention to him that my big-money guy is going to be retiring? How can we negotiate an offer sheet without talking money for not only this season but future seasons? The idea that Weber suggested just a 2-year deal is what sparked this ... I would not be stunned to find out certain teams were in his ear and Stamkos' ear too about being interested but not wanting to part with the picks if they did an offer sheet, so just become a UFA as soon as possible.
shrader Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 If Weber only wanted 2 years, it really makes you wonder why he didn't choose to go with a 2 year deal in the arbitration. But anyway, what you're suggesting is definitely tampering, but I guess that if you can't see it, it's not illegal. I doubt it had much of an effect on Stamkos though as he's still pretty far off from UFA status.
LGR4GM Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 To be frank, I think the second part of this post is thoughtful and not worth the dismissal it apparently received. There is something to having six men work as a unit, and there is also something to the point about not breaking up a team to bring in one guy. If he got 7.5 in arb, he's gonna kill when he finally becomes a UFA. Let the Rangers do it, unless the Sabres miraculously have that cap room around. (Unless Weber becomes a center.) If Weber got 7.5mil in arbitration I would guess that he will get that or more in UFA meaning that in order to get him, a B. Richards situation would be forthcoming where teams are bidding for his services. Weber however is younger and I think he is the new gold standard to measure defenders to. He hits, produces, and is a defensive force. My point is that on the Sabres right now, we have a guy named weber and now regehr who hits, we have Myers and Ehrhoff who produce and we have myers again who can be a defensive force. If I as a GM can lock up 2 of those guys for the price of Weber I am technically better off because that means that 2 things have to go wrong for me to be limited on defense instead of 1. Suter and Weber make up 69% of the salary the Preds are spending on defense (11mil out of 16mil) and both will probably get a raise (Suter def will) within 1 year. And they are spending only 2 mil less a year than the sabres on defense (aka Morrison) so the question is this would you rather have: S. Weber, Suter, Lebda, Bouillon, Klein, Blum or Regehr, Ehrhoff, Myers, Leopold, Weber, Sekera, MAG Now I understand that S Weber is a leader and a presence in the lockeroom as well but Myers is 4.5 years younger than him and very well could in the next 2-3 years become that type of person in the lockeroom as I feel that the Sabres as a team are relying on him and respecting him more and more with each passing year. At the end of the day, I would love Shea if we had him but would not "sell the farm" to get him, hes great but our defense is just solid right now. If it ain't broke don't fix it, looking at those 2 defenses, ours is not broke. IMHO Myers has the potential to be as good as Shea so Id much rather lock him up for 5-6 years then go out and try to acquire Shea Weber. Just wanted to expand on what I said and clarify, although I know that this will still be at least a -2 post, I refuse to just mumble out the standard line of "weber is awesome we should be lucky if he comes and plays here" because I don't feel that way.
RazielSabre Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 If Weber got 7.5mil in arbitration I would guess that he will get that or more in UFA meaning that in order to get him, a B. Richards situation would be forthcoming where teams are bidding for his services. Weber however is younger and I think he is the new gold standard to measure defenders to. He hits, produces, and is a defensive force. My point is that on the Sabres right now, we have a guy named weber and now regehr who hits, we have Myers and Ehrhoff who produce and we have myers again who can be a defensive force. If I as a GM can lock up 2 of those guys for the price of Weber I am technically better off because that means that 2 things have to go wrong for me to be limited on defense instead of 1. Suter and Weber make up 69% of the salary the Preds are spending on defense (11mil out of 16mil) and both will probably get a raise (Suter def will) within 1 year. And they are spending only 2 mil less a year than the sabres on defense (aka Morrison) so the question is this would you rather have: S. Weber, Suter, Lebda, Bouillon, Klein, Blum or Regehr, Ehrhoff, Myers, Leopold, Weber, Sekera, MAG Now I understand that S Weber is a leader and a presence in the lockeroom as well but Myers is 4.5 years younger than him and very well could in the next 2-3 years become that type of person in the lockeroom as I feel that the Sabres as a team are relying on him and respecting him more and more with each passing year. At the end of the day, I would love Shea if we had him but would not "sell the farm" to get him, hes great but our defense is just solid right now. If it ain't broke don't fix it, looking at those 2 defenses, ours is not broke. IMHO Myers has the potential to be as good as Shea so Id much rather lock him up for 5-6 years then go out and try to acquire Shea Weber. Just wanted to expand on what I said and clarify, although I know that this will still be at least a -2 post, I refuse to just mumble out the standard line of "weber is awesome we should be lucky if he comes and plays here" because I don't feel that way. I agree with you to be honest, and I'd still rather have a solid team than a star line, on D or up front. I remember when we did have Drury and Briere our big thing was that we could role out 4 solid lines and teams hated playing against that. I know we're on about defense but I still think the same applies.
Iron Crotch Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 If Weber got 7.5mil in arbitration I would guess that he will get that or more in UFA meaning that in order to get him, a B. Richards situation would be forthcoming where teams are bidding for his services. Weber however is younger and I think he is the new gold standard to measure defenders to. He hits, produces, and is a defensive force. My point is that on the Sabres right now, we have a guy named weber and now regehr who hits, we have Myers and Ehrhoff who produce and we have myers again who can be a defensive force. If I as a GM can lock up 2 of those guys for the price of Weber I am technically better off because that means that 2 things have to go wrong for me to be limited on defense instead of 1. Suter and Weber make up 69% of the salary the Preds are spending on defense (11mil out of 16mil) and both will probably get a raise (Suter def will) within 1 year. And they are spending only 2 mil less a year than the sabres on defense (aka Morrison) so the question is this would you rather have: S. Weber, Suter, Lebda, Bouillon, Klein, Blum or Regehr, Ehrhoff, Myers, Leopold, Weber, Sekera, MAG Now I understand that S Weber is a leader and a presence in the lockeroom as well but Myers is 4.5 years younger than him and very well could in the next 2-3 years become that type of person in the lockeroom as I feel that the Sabres as a team are relying on him and respecting him more and more with each passing year. At the end of the day, I would love Shea if we had him but would not "sell the farm" to get him, hes great but our defense is just solid right now. If it ain't broke don't fix it, looking at those 2 defenses, ours is not broke. IMHO Myers has the potential to be as good as Shea so Id much rather lock him up for 5-6 years then go out and try to acquire Shea Weber. Just wanted to expand on what I said and clarify, although I know that this will still be at least a -2 post, I refuse to just mumble out the standard line of "weber is awesome we should be lucky if he comes and plays here" because I don't feel that way. Definitely a solid point. I've always thought there two primary personnel philosophies in the NHL. One is to have a few high priced superstars and then a bunch of role players (Pittsburgh comes to mind) and the other is to have an even spread of the salaries with a lot of nice players and depth but few or no superstars. My opinion is that the superstar model has worked very well for many teams recently, especially when it comes to defense (i.e. have one pair that dominates ice time and match them up against the other team's top line). But that, of course, doesn't mean that the other model hasn't worked well for some teams (Carolina in 2006 balanced their minutes on defense IIRC). Certainly the risk of injury is greater with the superstar model... BTW - I love our defense on paper, but we still don't know for sure how solid they'll be next year... Nashville was third best in the NHL defensively last year in terms of GA per game (right behind the two Stanley Cup finalists) while we were 18th. Nashville plays a much more team-oriented defensive system though, so it is hard to parse out the difference between the two defense corps...
X. Benedict Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 Teddy to coach Latvia http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=585728&navid=DL|NHL|home
Eleven Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 Teddy to coach Latvia http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=585728&navid=DL|NHL|home I hope the goalie's wife is hot.
RazielSabre Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 Teddy to coach Latvia http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=585728&navid=DL|NHL|home I remember a while ago Sabres fans still thought he should replace Ruff, he was a better coach and that Hasek should have gone, not him. What's everyone's take now? I HATED his whining, but I hope he improves the Latvian team nonetheless.
Bullwinkle Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 I hope the goalie's wife is hot. LOL!!! Why else would he coach there? Latvia???
Bullwinkle Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 If Weber only wanted 2 years, it really makes you wonder why he didn't choose to go with a 2 year deal in the arbitration. But anyway, what you're suggesting is definitely tampering, but I guess that if you can't see it, it's not illegal. I doubt it had much of an effect on Stamkos though as he's still pretty far off from UFA status. How could he go for a two year deal in arbitration? Arbitration can only be for one year. And although I seriously doubt it would come to this, but I still think he would be receiving offer sheets next season. You don't seem to appreciate that he's in a different situation than Parise or Stamkos. What I mean by that is 1. Nashville doesn't want to pay him big bucks and 2. He is not keen on staying there (despite the hype from his agents). But like I said before, we'll never know because he'll either extend (2 years if he's smart), elect to go through arbitration again (if he's smarter) or be traded before July 1st 2012.
Bullwinkle Posted August 4, 2011 Report Posted August 4, 2011 My take on the possibility of Shea Weber to the Sabres is "forget it". Our D is set and what we need is an expensive center, not another expensive Dman. Myers is going to cost us enough next year.
deluca67 Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 My take on the possibility of Shea Weber to the Sabres is "forget it". Our D is set and what we need is an expensive center, not another expensive Dman. Myers is going to cost us enough next year. BW I couldn't disagree more on Shea Weber. If a Shea Weber type player becomes available you need to take a serious look at acquiring him. You can't let that type of talent go by without taking a serious look no matter what the current roster looks like.
shrader Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 How could he go for a two year deal in arbitration? Arbitration can only be for one year. And although I seriously doubt it would come to this, but I still think he would be receiving offer sheets next season. You don't seem to appreciate that he's in a different situation than Parise or Stamkos. What I mean by that is 1. Nashville doesn't want to pay him big bucks and 2. He is not keen on staying there (despite the hype from his agents). But like I said before, we'll never know because he'll either extend (2 years if he's smart), elect to go through arbitration again (if he's smarter) or be traded before July 1st 2012. If you are two years away from UFA status, you can opt for a 2 year contract. As far as I know, no one has actually done that though. And as for Weber being in a different situation than Parise, they were essentially in the same situation. Both faced a team elected arbitration. The rest of your details may or may not be true, but they were definitely similar situations. I'm not so sure on either of those points though. It seems like Weber has no problem being there, but he only wanted two years while Nashville was fine with paying him, but wanted long term.
BetweenThePipes00 Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 How could he go for a two year deal in arbitration? Arbitration can only be for one year. And although I seriously doubt it would come to this, but I still think he would be receiving offer sheets next season. You don't seem to appreciate that he's in a different situation than Parise or Stamkos. What I mean by that is 1. Nashville doesn't want to pay him big bucks and 2. He is not keen on staying there (despite the hype from his agents). But like I said before, we'll never know because he'll either extend (2 years if he's smart), elect to go through arbitration again (if he's smarter) or be traded before July 1st 2012. If the team chooses arbitration, as Nashville did, the player gets to pick one or two years. If the player elects arbitration, it can only be one year. So Shrader is right in this case. I am not sure if HE can choose arbitration again next year, but the team can't. You keep saying Nashville doesn't want to pay him. There is no indication of that. ... Poile knows what the market is and said himself the award was a fair one. They know what the price is, they just don't want to pay him for 2 years and then lose him. And he doesn't want to sign for longer unless he knows they can compete. If they can somehow get deals done with Suter and Rinne and show him they are serious about winning, they have a chance to sign him. If not, they will trade him. At least now they know his number for this season and can work around it when doing the other deals ... for a team on a budget, that is no small thing.
Bullwinkle Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 If the team chooses arbitration, as Nashville did, the player gets to pick one or two years. If the player elects arbitration, it can only be one year. So Shrader is right in this case. I am not sure if HE can choose arbitration again next year, but the team can't. You keep saying Nashville doesn't want to pay him. There is no indication of that. ... Poile knows what the market is and said himself the award was a fair one. They know what the price is, they just don't want to pay him for 2 years and then lose him. And he doesn't want to sign for longer unless he knows they can compete. If they can somehow get deals done with Suter and Rinne and show him they are serious about winning, they have a chance to sign him. If not, they will trade him. At least now they know his number for this season and can work around it when doing the other deals ... for a team on a budget, that is no small thing. Weber can file for arbitration next year but the team can't. I say they don't want to pay him simply because they haven't! NJ signed Parise because they were willing to pony up $6 mil, if only for one year. Perhaps Parise too, wants to see if the franchise is serious. Nashville could have set up an Ehrhoff-type deal if they wanted to keep Weber long term but either they didn't want to spend that much (they are under a strict budget) or Weber didn't want to commit long term because he wants to play for a contender. Like you said, they will have to come through with Rinne & Suter to convince Weber to stay with the squad. I'm sure he'd rather play for a team like Buffalo but despite what DeLuca says, I still don't think we should make a serious play for him.
thesportsbuff Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 Weber can file for arbitration next year but the team can't. I say they don't want to pay him simply because they haven't! NJ signed Parise because they were willing to pony up $6 mil, if only for one year. Perhaps Parise too, wants to see if the franchise is serious. Nashville could have set up an Ehrhoff-type deal if they wanted to keep Weber long term but either they didn't want to spend that much (they are under a strict budget) or Weber didn't want to commit long term because he wants to play for a contender. Like you said, they will have to come through with Rinne & Suter to convince Weber to stay with the squad. I'm sure he'd rather play for a team like Buffalo but despite what DeLuca says, I still don't think we should make a serious play for him. I think it's going to take more than another good defenseman and a top tier goalie to get convince Weber nashville is a contender. They still have a lot of work to do on their offense.
BetweenThePipes00 Posted August 5, 2011 Report Posted August 5, 2011 Weber can file for arbitration next year but the team can't. I say they don't want to pay him simply because they haven't! NJ signed Parise because they were willing to pony up $6 mil, if only for one year. Perhaps Parise too, wants to see if the franchise is serious. Nashville could have set up an Ehrhoff-type deal if they wanted to keep Weber long term but either they didn't want to spend that much (they are under a strict budget) or Weber didn't want to commit long term because he wants to play for a contender. Like you said, they will have to come through with Rinne & Suter to convince Weber to stay with the squad. I'm sure he'd rather play for a team like Buffalo but despite what DeLuca says, I still don't think we should make a serious play for him. Oh, but they have paid him ... $7.5 million for this season. How is that any different than NJ paying Parise $6 million? Just because the number was set in arbitration? They knew going in he was going to get paid. They are just trying to exhaust all avenues to keep working on something long-term or be able to set the terms of a trade. The arbitration was just to protect them from an offer sheet. Whether or not that offer sheet would have come, who knows, but they are in no worse a place than NJ is with Parise. They will both probably be traded, and both teams will get more immediate help than they would get from a bunch of future first-round picks. They can't set up an Ehrhoff-type deal because that would mean drastically dropping his salary after 6 or 7 years .. he will still be in his early 30s, so he will not want to give up those prime earning years at such a low salary. To make it worth his while, they'd have to give him $15 or 20 million up front or something crazy, and they do not have the cashflow for that. Both sides know if they do that, they can't put any kind of team around him the first couple years when he is getting so much of their cash. He has them in a catch-22 ... he keeps saying he wants to see them build a contender, but how can they do that if they do not know what they will be paying their best player? How can they attract other great players or convince Suter and Rinne to stay if they don't think Weber will be there? It is much more a case of him either not wanting to be in Nashville, or wanting to milk every last dollar he can out of whomever he signs with, or both. The guy wants a two-year deal at full market value just so he can be unrestricted as early as possible ... that doesn't sound to me like someone who really wants to stay.
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