Will there be anymore deals?

[Bullwinkle]

Roy is three years older than Stastny which skews the comparison a little. I look at Derek Roy as pretty much being the player he is going to be. At 25 I consider Stastny to have that upside. If Stastny is the same player at 28 as he is at 25 then I wouldn't consider him a #1 center. There is enough talent there to justify the risk and the cost of putting him in the Blue & Gold.

 

But not at the price of Ennis as many of the people here are proposing. Stastny is still a work in progress and at this time I think Ennis has more of a potential upside, especially considering he's only 21.

[deluca67]

i have a question that relates to what he would be "worth" to the sabres.

 

Take what you believe it would cost the sabres to add stasny out of the line-up, and add stasny in. look at both rosters side by side. What % chance would you give the current sabres (for reference, they are currently the 11th best favorite at 20-1 on Bodog) and what % chance would you give the new roster minus the traded players plus stasny? My guess is the odds don't increase that much.

If Stastny can come in and be a #1 center he would be the most important player the Sabres would have. For a comparison, if the Sabres traded Ennis, MAG, Kassian and a #1 all you are losing from the actual roster is Ennis. The Sabres have more than enough on the blue-line to make MAD expendable and Kassian at this point is more legend than fact.

 

What it comes right down to then is Ennis for Stastny. Putting Stastny at center would allow Hecht and Leino to stay on the wings where they belong. I like Ennis, but if I can get a center to play with Vanek, maybe Pominville, and jump start their goal production to the level we all expected three years ago you have to take that shot.

 

Look at a possible #1 power-play:

 

Myers - Erhoff

Vanek - Stastny - Pominville

 

That is a power-play to get excited about.

 

I'm not going to put a percentage on it, I will tell you a Sabres lineup with Stastny will raise by expectations for this team exponentially.

[deluca67]

But not at the price of Ennis as many of the people here are proposing. Stastny is still a work in progress and at this time I think Ennis has more of a potential upside, especially considering he's only 21.

Ennis also plays a position that is much easier to replace than center.

[oldmagnethands]

I don't think that they will give up stastny. I wonder what it would take to get Matt Duchene

[BetweenThePipes00]

But not at the price of Ennis as many of the people here are proposing. Stastny is still a work in progress and at this time I think Ennis has more of a potential upside, especially considering he's only 21.

 

With all due respect to your scouting of the whole league for your fantasy league you mentioned, I think you are really undervaluing Stastny here ... I am not saying I watch him every night either, but I have seen enough to know he is a big-time player. Ennis had a nice 49-point season as a rookie 21-year old. Stastny had a 78-point season as a rookie 21-year old. He followed it up with 71 points in 66 games. He also has a 79-point season. His worst season, when he played just 45 games due to injury, he was on a 64-point pace. He's played on mostly horrible teams. If he is still a "work in progress" at 25 (and who isn't?), I am all for letting him "progress" here. I'd rather have him than Spezza.

 

That said, no way would I give up Ennis AND Kassian in a deal for him .... Ennis OR Kassian, fine, you have to give something to get something, but not both. But I don't think he is really available, and if he is, I would guess Adam or Roy would have to be included ...centers are just too rare.

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

But not at the price of Ennis as many of the people here are proposing. Stastny is still a work in progress and at this time I think Ennis has more of a potential upside, especially considering he's only 21.

This. Centers can be drafted. Ennis is turning into a steal as a late first rounder. With the new ownerships deep pockets now able to give out lengthy contracts at relatively low cap hits, Ennis should be looked at as a key piece to build around. An Ennis Vanek tandem given a couple more years could present one of the best one, two punches on LW of any team for years to come. He also could end up being far better (and cheaper cap wise) than Vanek once Vanek starts to decline and Ennis hits his prime.

 

 

Ennis also plays a position that is much easier to replace than center.

This is true, but i don't think it takes away from the fact that the kid has what it takes to be a 1st line LW.

 

The kid is good. IN a few years, I think he'll be scary good.

[Bullwinkle]

This. Centers can be drafted. Ennis is turning into a steal as a late first rounder. With the new ownerships deep pockets now able to give out lengthy contracts at relatively low cap hits, Ennis should be looked at as a key piece to build around. An Ennis Vanek tandem given a couple more years could present one of the best one, two punches on LW of any team for years to come. He also could end up being far better (and cheaper cap wise) than Vanek once Vanek starts to decline and Ennis hits his prime.

 

This is true, but i don't think it takes away from the fact that the kid has what it takes to be a 1st line LW.

 

The kid is good. IN a few years, I think he'll be scary good.

 

Exactly. I can't see Stastny being "scary good". I may be wrong, (and it certainly wouldn't be the first time) but right now Ennis > Stastny in my book. BTW I also agree that Stastny > Spezza for this team.

[Bullwinkle]

With all due respect to your scouting of the whole league for your fantasy league you mentioned, I think you are really undervaluing Stastny here ... I am not saying I watch him every night either, but I have seen enough to know he is a big-time player. Ennis had a nice 49-point season as a rookie 21-year old. Stastny had a 78-point season as a rookie 21-year old. He followed it up with 71 points in 66 games. He also has a 79-point season. His worst season, when he played just 45 games due to injury, he was on a 64-point pace. He's played on mostly horrible teams. If he is still a "work in progress" at 25 (and who isn't?), I am all for letting him "progress" here. I'd rather have him than Spezza.

 

That said, no way would I give up Ennis AND Kassian in a deal for him .... Ennis OR Kassian, fine, you have to give something to get something, but not both. But I don't think he is really available, and if he is, I would guess Adam or Roy would have to be included ...centers are just too rare.

 

You can't compare Stastny's stats to Ennis' at this point simply because Ennis was a rookie last year. I have pointed out to DeLuca the comparison of Stastny with Roy. I'm sure you saw it, but I'll repeat it here anyway.

 

Not much difference and Roy is an acknowledged 2nd line center - although I'm hoping that is changing.

 

STASTNY .......................................... ROY

GP.......... Points..... PPG.......... GP..... Points..... PPG

82.......... 78.......... .95.............. 75........... 63........ .84

66.......... 71.......... 1.08............. 78... ...... 81........ 1.04

45.......... 36.......... .8................ 82.......... 70........ .85

81.......... 79.......... .98............... 80.......... 69........ .86

74.......... 57.......... .77............... 35.......... 35........ 1.00

 

Yes, Stastny had a crappy team last year...particularly after January when I traded him to another team in my fantasy league. So yes, the potential is still there, but at 25 it had better show itself soon. Meanwhile, I'll stick with Ennis.

[BetweenThePipes00]

You can't compare Stastny's stats to Ennis' at this point simply because Ennis was a rookie last year. I have pointed out to DeLuca the comparison of Stastny with Roy. I'm sure you saw it, but I'll repeat it here anyway.

 

 

Wait, why is it that I can't compare Stastny as a 21-year old rooke to Ennis as a 21-year old rookie? You guys keep saying Ennis COULD be something ... Stastny IS something and has been since he was a rookie ... a rookie who scored 30 more points than Ennis did as the same age. I am not comparing their total stats ... just that ONE season. Stastny played a more demanding position and was a plus player and scored 78 points to Ennis' 49 as a rookie. The point is that he was an impact player right away and has continued to be.

 

Yes, Stastny had a crappy team last year...particularly after January when I traded him to another team in my fantasy league. So yes, the potential is still there, but at 25 it had better show itself soon. Meanwhile, I'll stick with Ennis.

 

It had better show itself? Was the 79-point season leading the Avs from nowhere to the playoffs in 09-10 not showing something? You keep saying he needs to show something ... well if he has MORE to show, then I REALLY want him and the Avs would be insane to trade him, even for the great Tyler Ennis.

 

 

I hate that I am even having this argument because I LIKE Ennis and don't think they would trade Stastny ... but I can't help myself.

[TheChimp]

Trade Ennis/Hecht/Gragnani/Morrisonn/1st for Stastny - I really think they'd do it.

 

 

You then have a roster that looks like this:

Vanek – Stastny – Stafford

Leino – Roy – Boyes

Gerbe – Gaustad – Kaleta

McCormick – Adam – Kassian

 

Myers/Regehr

Leopold/Ehrhoff

Weber/Sekera

 

Stuart and Brennan as your extras, something like that. And Pominville stays on IR until trade deadline and then either he or Boyes gets traded. Or, if Pominville is hunky dory come October, you trade Boyes right now for picks. Or he gets included in the Stastny trade, if Colorado wants him and why wouldn't they? Either way, one of them has to go to stay under the Cap.

 

 

But seriously, if anyone says that our current roster is even CLOSE to this, I say you're crazy. And I really do think that's a deal Colorado would take, and I'd make in a heartbeat if I were Darcy.

 

(Yes, I just opened the door with that one, so go for it)

[Bullwinkle]

Wait, why is it that I can't compare Stastny as a 21-year old rooke to Ennis as a 21-year old rookie? You guys keep saying Ennis COULD be something ... Stastny IS something and has been since he was a rookie ... a rookie who scored 30 more points than Ennis did as the same age. I am not comparing their total stats ... just that ONE season. Stastny played a more demanding position and was a plus player and scored 78 points to Ennis' 49 as a rookie. The point is that he was an impact player right away and has continued to be.

 

Comparing a single year says little about the players, especially when one is a rookie. That's why it's meaningless to compare them. Anything can happen to a player after the first season, while a player with a five year history has established his abilities in the league.

 

Stastny is as much of an impact player as Roy is. The stats bear that out. Did he make much of an impact this year - his 5th in which he played 74 games? No. And I'm using your criteria of using a single year in saying that.

 

 

It had better show itself? Was the 79-point season leading the Avs from nowhere to the playoffs in 09-10 not showing something? You keep saying he needs to show something ... well if he has MORE to show, then I REALLY want him and the Avs would be insane to trade him, even for the great Tyler Ennis.

 

I hate that I am even having this argument because I LIKE Ennis and don't think they would trade Stastny ... but I can't help myself.

 

When I say he needs to show himself, I mean as a true nr. 1 center. His stats to date don't put him in that category. So what he really needs to show is consistency - and he hasn't done that yet.

[LastPommerFan]

If Stastny can come in and be a #1 center he would be the most important player the Sabres would have. For a comparison, if the Sabres traded Ennis, MAG, Kassian and a #1 all you are losing from the actual roster is Ennis. The Sabres have more than enough on the blue-line to make MAD expendable and Kassian at this point is more legend than fact.

 

What it comes right down to then is Ennis for Stastny. Putting Stastny at center would allow Hecht and Leino to stay on the wings where they belong. I like Ennis, but if I can get a center to play with Vanek, maybe Pominville, and jump start their goal production to the level we all expected three years ago you have to take that shot.

 

Look at a possible #1 power-play:

 

Myers - Erhoff

Vanek - Stastny - Pominville

 

That is a power-play to get excited about.

 

I'm not going to put a percentage on it, I will tell you a Sabres lineup with Stastny will raise by expectations for this team exponentially.

 

The problem with that trade is that it would put the sabres even further above the cap. So you'd have to remove at least 2 more players from the starting roster. We already have to remove Ales and Shoane to get into a workable space under the cap. This trade adds $4M+ to our cap, so now we have to move 5.5M and replace them with prospects/low costs guys. It could be done by moving Sekera and Jochen or Boyes, but now your pulling guys that are significant downgrades (perhaps with potential, but not there yet) from the current roster.

 

So the switch can't be just Ennis for Stasny, Ennis might be the only piece going to Denver, but the roster would have to look at least 2 more players different. We'd have another Rookie Defenseman starting (which has alread burned us) and we'd have 2 more rookies or super-old vets playing forward.

 

I like stasny, and I think he would improve the team, but I don't see the path that gets us there that doesn't out-weigh his benefit.

[sabres1970]

keep Kassian, anyone else is game in my opinion.

[Derrico]

The problem with that trade is that it would put the sabres even further above the cap. So you'd have to remove at least 2 more players from the starting roster. We already have to remove Ales and Shoane to get into a workable space under the cap. This trade adds $4M+ to our cap, so now we have to move 5.5M and replace them with prospects/low costs guys. It could be done by moving Sekera and Jochen or Boyes, but now your pulling guys that are significant downgrades (perhaps with potential, but not there yet) from the current roster.

 

So the switch can't be just Ennis for Stasny, Ennis might be the only piece going to Denver, but the roster would have to look at least 2 more players different. We'd have another Rookie Defenseman starting (which has alread burned us) and we'd have 2 more rookies or super-old vets playing forward.

 

I like stasny, and I think he would improve the team, but I don't see the path that gets us there that doesn't out-weigh his benefit.

 

+1

 

We're in cap trouble until some the contracts come off the books at the end of next season.

[LGR4GM]

He seems like just another Hecht to me. What would be the point? If we're not trading for a #1 Center, we should just be done with the whole thing for the year. And to me, that would be a shame. It's the perfect time to trade all of the guys I mentioned. Morrisonn was the "Kotalik" in that trade, I'm sure everyone understands that.

Hecht also had 355 hits over the last 2 years? Hecht is only 28? Stoll is the type of grit you need. He could get 50pts. He can open up ice for a guy like Pommers or whoever and hes more of a natural center than I think Hecht has ever been. Even if he was a ok 2 it would be good. Remember though that leino is our 1/2 center right now so we technically dont need anyone.

[carpandean]

The problem with that trade is that it would put the sabres even further above the cap. So you'd have to remove at least 2 more players from the starting roster. We already have to remove Ales and Shoane to get into a workable space under the cap. This trade adds $4M+ to our cap, so now we have to move 5.5M and replace them with prospects/low costs guys. It could be done by moving Sekera and Jochen or Boyes, but now your pulling guys that are significant downgrades (perhaps with potential, but not there yet) from the current roster.

 

So the switch can't be just Ennis for Stasny, Ennis might be the only piece going to Denver, but the roster would have to look at least 2 more players different. We'd have another Rookie Defenseman starting (which has alread burned us) and we'd have 2 more rookies or super-old vets playing forward.

 

I like stasny, and I think he would improve the team, but I don't see the path that gets us there that doesn't out-weigh his benefit.

The only good news is that Colorado is in the opposite cap trouble, needing to add cap to hit the floor. This makes the deal less likely to happen (they'd be getting rid of their highest cap/player), but if it were to, then they'd have to have cap coming back. Really, the only hope is that, with the new CBA coming, they might be willing to take one-year contracts (Boyes, Hecht) back to help get them above the floor this year, while dropping a big contract that extends past it. It would depend on their perception of what will happen in the negotiations. Obviously, these players wouldn't add much, if any, value for Colorado (other than getting to the floor), and we might even have to add a pick or picks to make it happen, but it would be a necessary part of a deal from both sides. So, basically, figure out a deal that makes sense purely from a talent sense, then add on Boyes or Hecht, plus a second-round pick from the Sabres (or maybe both players and two picks) to work out the cap part of the deal. As much I would like to see them make a deal for Stastny, I have a feeling that they would have to include a ton in that initial part of the deal to get the Avs to even consider it.

[LGR4GM]

Trade Ennis/Hecht/Gragnani/Morrisonn/1st for Stastny - I really think they'd do it.

 

 

You then have a roster that looks like this:

Vanek – Stastny – Stafford

Leino – Roy – Boyes

Gerbe – Gaustad – Kaleta

McCormick – Adam – Kassian

 

Myers/Regehr

Leopold/Ehrhoff

Weber/Sekera

 

Stuart and Brennan as your extras, something like that. And Pominville stays on IR until trade deadline and then either he or Boyes gets traded. Or, if Pominville is hunky dory come October, you trade Boyes right now for picks. Or he gets included in the Stastny trade, if Colorado wants him and why wouldn't they? Either way, one of them has to go to stay under the Cap.

 

 

But seriously, if anyone says that our current roster is even CLOSE to this, I say you're crazy. And I really do think that's a deal Colorado would take, and I'd make in a heartbeat if I were Darcy.

 

(Yes, I just opened the door with that one, so go for it)

Poor Tyler Ennis. Because hes 5'9" it is basically assumed that he will never be as good as player x,y or z. Many people think we should trade him for Stastny because Stastny has more "potential". Here's an idea, lets stop looking for potential and just recognize raw, amazing, talent when it hits the ice. Tyler Ennis had 49pts you are right. He did not have a 70pt rookie season. What he did do was develop at a rate that we should be so excited about we would not dream of trading him. I am not sure how many points he had post the Roy injury but he developed into a different player during those last 47 games. We keep talking about puck possession, Ennis can control the puck like no one else on the team. We talk about entries into the zone, Ennis' entries kept getting better and cleaner. We talk about wishing we had a guy who could score big goals or contribute in big ways, As the season progressed I wanted Ennis to have the puck because I knew he had the hands and wheels to at least put on shot on net. Unless Leino is a horrendous failure at Center, I would not trade Tyler Ennis for anything.

 

It amuses me that a player like couture is worth the moon but Tyler Ennis who had a whopping 7 less points and played on a worse team with no center help, is worth part of a deal for someone... and no idc that Couture got 37g playing on SJ 3rd line when ik that Heatley, thorton, pavelski and marleau saw the top defensive pairings. Ennis is up there with Skinner and Couture, but for some reason this fan base is all about sending him far away. Ennis has done more with less and should be valued at least on the same level as those 2 rookies. If Eric Stall was Ennis' center i bet he would have won the calder pretty easily, all i am saying is we value some players on this team pretty high and then other players we would trade and its not based off of skill but off of fan bias. Tyler Ennis will hit 60pts this season, easily. He will continue to produce for years at a very high level. Tyler Ennis is not like anyone whos played for this team in the last 5 years and is only close to Afinogenov. Ennis will be great and I would hate to trade him before we give Cantenucci the chance to center a line with him. (imagine those wheels) Is he untouchable? No but i would be very hesitant.

[Lanny]

Ennis is up there with Skinner and Couture, but for some reason this fan base is all about sending him far away

I don't think everyone is all about sending him far away. I think the realization is that he is one player on this team, due to age, skill & cap hit, that actually has a fair amount of trade value to return the types of player & position everyone wants (#1 center). You gotta give something to get something.

[LGR4GM]

I don't think everyone is all about sending him far away. I think the realization is that he is one player on this team, due to age, skill & cap hit, that actually has a fair amount of trade value to return the types of player & position everyone wants (#1 center). You gotta give something to get something.

Agreed and i think ennis would get you something really good, but id rather wait for a center to develop i guess than give ennis away. lol guess that puts me in the don't worry about trading for a center camp... crap.

[dEnnis the Menace]

Agreed and i think ennis would get you something really good, but id rather wait for a center to develop i guess than give ennis away. lol guess that puts me in the don't worry about trading for a center camp... crap.

 

I for one really do not want to see Ennis go anywhere (especially after buying his jersey :ph34r: )

 

I like the raw talent this kid has, but if an opportunity of a lifetime arose for an excellent player that would improve this team more than the value of having Ennis, I would accept it.

 

I am all for individual players, but in the end, I'm a Sabres fan, and I want to see the Sabres succeed. The only time I want to see some players traded is when it improves the on-ice product.

 

and that's my two-cents on this lovely Monday

[Weave]

I don't think everyone is all about sending him far away. I think the realization is that he is one player on this team, due to age, skill & cap hit, that actually has a fair amount of trade value to return the types of player & position everyone wants (#1 center). You gotta give something to get something.

 

This about sums it up. Noone here really wants to see Ennis moved. But many realize that moving a player like Ennis (young, talented, low contract hit) is what it would likely take to get a #1 center in the door.

 

Is Stastny worth a player like Ennis +? My gut tells me yes. Stastny is putting up respectable points on a team that hasn't given him decent wingers the last two seasons. I would expect that his numbers would be better still if he were centering Vanek and Boyes/Stafford. And that is where the real value in moving Ennis for Stastny would be, he would replace Ennis' points and probably add a little more to it, PLUS you'de get even better numbers out of Vanek and Boyes/Stafford. Giving up Ennis' 50-70 pts may very well net you 100 pts between Stastny and the increase his wingers would see. And given how deep we are at wing I think it is a good move to make.

 

Having said all that. I think the moves for this offseason are done and this line of thought is just idle chatter.

[X. Benedict]

I don't think that they will give up stastny. I wonder what it would take to get Matt Duchene

 

Duchene is a better player. (#3 overall pick)

 

He's going to be the cornerstone in Colorodo. They probably wouldn't trade him

for John Tavares (#1 overall pick) if given a chance.

[shrader]

Duchene is a better player. (#3 overall pick)

 

He's going to be the cornerstone in Colorodo. They probably wouldn't trade him

for John Tavares (#1 overall pick) if given a chance.

 

And he's a hell of a lot cheaper than Stastny too. This is another case of "why would the team even think of moving him". He's in a great market and if I remember correctly, was a huge Avs fan growing up. Unless he has a Phaneuf-like cancerous moment, he'll spend his entire career in Denver.

[carpandean]

This. Centers can be drafted.

Unless they tank a season to get a top pick, any center that they draft will be a longer shot to ever make the team, and even if he does, it probably won't be for three years. If they want to win a Cup in three years, they won't be getting their #1 center in the draft.

[wacollin]

If Stastny can come in and be a #1 center he would be the most important player the Sabres would have. For a comparison, if the Sabres traded Ennis, MAG, Kassian and a #1 all you are losing from the actual roster is Ennis. The Sabres have more than enough on the blue-line to make MAD expendable and Kassian at this point is more legend than fact. 

 

 

 

You lose more than that because we would still need to get rid of players to make the salary cap. We also lose some low $ figure contracts, with skills, to fill out the roster for the next 3-5 years.