Will there be anymore deals?

[Bullwinkle]

...and nonenof those players are as complete a player as Stastny is.

 

I'm hoping it can be done but I just don't see it. Call me a pessimist.

 

Stastny's play has deteriorated badly in this past year. A player usually breaks out in his 4th season. Stastny played well in his first four, but tanked in his 5th. Let's hope it was the team and not him. I will recognize that a malaise struck that entire team from January on, which may be the reason.

[donteatyellowsnow]

Good points, it was funny how it was the road games that he really struggled in. Either way though, I wouldn't compare the two goaltenders. I'd take Miller anyday.

 

That's fine, but Luongo has better career regular season and playoff numbers than Miller, a gold medal and a cup finals appearance. Miller has got nothing on Luongo, but i'm not saying I would take Luongo though. I would take Tim homas in a heartbeat over either one of those two.

[deluca67]

I agree they're better. Remember VL and probably Adam or Hecht will be a center as well though so you must count them. But arguably our wingers are superior to Boston. Our D is looking just as good, if not better and then it comes down to Miller. Will he be as good as Thomas was? That will be a serious question. But to get back on topic, just to say that we lack talent at center is rudimentary IMO. Anyone can say oh we need an upgrade there but let's face the facts, we're over the cap and would need a trade to pull this off. I'd love to trade the right pieces to get that center but thus far all concerned have not given much in the way of how to pull this off. I'm saying a different way to accomplish this feat is by loading up at all other positions (which we're pretty good at right now) and therefore mask our weakness at center. As many have jumped to defend, there is no one way at building a stanley cup team and I just think we should be weary of trading big pieces of our team to address the one weakness we have or our current strengths may no longer be there once a trade is complete.

I agree that the Sabres need to be careful if they do decide to look at acquiring a center. I would be hesitant to add a Vanek or Miller to any deal. That is not to say I would take them off the table. If the return justifies including a Vanek or Miller the Sabres have to be willing to make that deal.

 

The concerns regarding center go beyond an upgrade. There is a serious lack of talent at center. Placing a winger at center and calling him a center hasn't workout for the Sabres in the past. Hecht has been ineffective when placed there and Boyes all but disappeared. To expect any different result from Leino is a risk I wish the Sabres didn't take. It's a problem area when all players are healthy. A injury or two of any significant time? The Sabres simply do not have options.

[tom webster]

I agree that the Sabres need to be careful if they do decide to look at acquiring a center. I would be hesitant to add a Vanek or Miller to any deal. That is not to say I would take them off the table. If the return justifies including a Vanek or Miller the Sabres have to be willing to make that deal.

 

The concerns regarding center go beyond an upgrade.

There is a serious lack of talent at center. Placing a winger

at center and calling him a center hasn't workout for the

Sabres in the past. Hecht has been ineffective when placed

there and Boyes all but disappeared. To expect any

different result from Leino is a risk I wish the Sabres didn't

take. It's a problem area when all players are healthy. A

injury or two of any significant time? The Sabres simply do

not have options.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While I agree that they still need to upgrade center, the difference with Leino is that he prefers center and it may be his natural position. I'm interested to see how it progesses but Ruff and Regier seem sure of themselves on this one.0

[SabresFan526]

While I agree that they still need to upgrade center, the difference with Leino is that he prefers center and it may be his natural position. I'm interested to see how it progesses but Ruff and Regier seem sure of themselves on this one.0

I generally agree with this. I think Leino will be fine as a center, but it is a bit of risk given the bulk of his success to this point has been on the wing. I still like the signing, though.

 

One thing to caution is that Jochen Hecht's natural position is actually center, not left wing. However, everyone here has seen that he is more effective on the wall than in the middle. Just something to keep in mind.

[Derrico]

I agree that the Sabres need to be careful if they do decide to look at acquiring a center. I would be hesitant to add a Vanek or Miller to any deal. That is not to say I would take them off the table. If the return justifies including a Vanek or Miller the Sabres have to be willing to make that deal.

 

The concerns regarding center go beyond an upgrade. There is a serious lack of talent at center. Placing a winger at center and calling him a center hasn't workout for the Sabres in the past. Hecht has been ineffective when placed there and Boyes all but disappeared. To expect any different result from Leino is a risk I wish the Sabres didn't take. It's a problem area when all players are healthy. A injury or two of any significant time? The Sabres simply do not have options.

 

Although I agree that center is the glaring weakness, I think it is exagerated to a certain extend on this board. The Sabres had one of the best records in the NHL over the entire second half of the season last year. The difference up the middle between then and now is that we lose the Tin Man (which 95% of the board is happy about) and gain (hopefully) a healthy Derek Roy, a bit of an experiment but talented Ville Lenio and possibly a more experienced Luke Adam. Everyone seems to project the roster without the kid. He did play what, 20 games for us last year? He's got a shot at the lineup.

[waldo]

Although I agree that center is the glaring weakness, I think it is exagerated to a certain extend on this board. The Sabres had one of the best records in the NHL over the entire second half of the season last year. The difference up the middle between then and now is that we lose the Tin Man (which 95% of the board is happy about) and gain (hopefully) a healthy Derek Roy, a bit of an experiment but talented Ville Lenio and possibly a more experienced Luke Adam. Everyone seems to project the roster without the kid. He did play what, 20 games for us last year? He's got a shot at the lineup.

 

All good points. It is exagerated here.I helped do it because i honestly think they will try to acquire one. The world does not end if they fail. I hope they do not overpay if sucessfull. The reason why they must try is in your statement where you say "a healthy derek roy"????????That is an unknown and why they must try. Granted Leino should be a step up from Tim. The power play should improve with Leino and Erhoff. I like the idea of using Adam more to see what he looks like.With a couple of modest defensive improvements this team could lower their gaa by .25 which would be huge. Ideally Miller will not face the number of defensive zone give aways, lapses and real scoring chances he did last year as the sabres learn to effectively/consistently shut down one or two oppossing scoring lines.(hopefully).Myers will learn this year how to move the puck in less than 3 seconds. Vanek should go 10+ on the powerplay and with Leino if healthy.This Team on paper should go much deeper. Just a little more strength up the middle and some seasoned physical /defensive role players.And oh my god if they get their 1 center. Even a 2 with potential would do it providing Lindy does not go into one of his vendetta loops.

[X. Benedict]

Although I agree that center is the glaring weakness, I think it is exagerated to a certain extend on this board. The Sabres had one of the best records in the NHL over the entire second half of the season last year. The difference up the middle between then and now is that we lose the Tin Man (which 95% of the board is happy about) and gain (hopefully) a healthy Derek Roy, a bit of an experiment but talented Ville Lenio and possibly a more experienced Luke Adam. Everyone seems to project the roster without the kid. He did play what, 20 games for us last year? He's got a shot at the lineup.

 

Why Buffalo needs centers is not entirely scoring. Philly proved that Buffalo is vulnerable to a fore-check - and they were able to pin Buffalo in by taking away the center of the ice.

 

Secondly, there are the face-offs. Gaustad was solid in the defensive zone and had a good season- but organizationally it is still weak. (Heck, Dany Briere even did a backflip in the playoffs to get Gaustad thrown out - because Buffalo had no second option).

 

Thirdly, Entries: Most of the season Connolly was the only one with reliable entries into the offensive zone. Using d-men for entries is a high risk game - note vulnerability to the SH goals.

 

Lastly - Buffalo's offensive strength is in the wings. That one guy that can put the puck on Vanek and Stafford's stick will raise productivity.

 

So while Buffalo is still a good team - if they can find that one guy, four elements can really improve.

[Derrico]

All good points. It is exagerated here.I helped do it because i honestly think they will try to acquire one. The world does not end if they fail. I hope they do not overpay if sucessfull. The reason why they must try is in your statement where you say "a healthy derek roy"????????That is an unknown and why they must try. Granted Leino should be a step up from Tim. The power play should improve with Leino and Erhoff. I like the idea of using Adam more to see what he looks like.With a couple of modest defensive improvements this team could lower their gaa by .25 which would be huge. Ideally Miller will not face the number of defensive zone give aways, lapses and real scoring chances he did last year as the sabres learn to effectively/consistently shut down one or two oppossing scoring lines.(hopefully).Myers will learn this year how to move the puck in less than 3 seconds. Vanek should go 10+ on the powerplay and with Leino if healthy.This Team on paper should go much deeper. Just a little more strength up the middle and some seasoned physical /defensive role players.And oh my god if they get their 1 center. Even a 2 with potential would do it providing Lindy does not go into one of his vendetta loops.

 

Yep, I agree with you. As long as they don't trade away our top 6 and find a way to get under the cap then I'm all for it. I think using a Kassian and Sekera plus the other team willing to take Pommers may land us a big guy. And it would help our salary cap situation with JP traded to fit the center we get under the cap. By the way I'm not contradicting myself, I think that Pommers is a good fit four our third line, not the top 2.

[Derrico]

Why Buffalo needs centers is not entirely scoring. Philly proved that Buffalo is vulnerable to a fore-check - and they were able to pin Buffalo in by taking away the center of the ice.

 

Secondly, there are the face-offs. Gaustad was solid in the defensive zone and had a good season- but organizationally it is still weak. (Heck, Dany Briere even did a backflip in the playoffs to get Gaustad thrown out - because Buffalo had no second option).

 

Thirdly, Entries: Most of the season Connolly was the only one with reliable entries into the offensive zone. Using d-men for entries is a high risk game - note vulnerability to the SH goals.

 

Lastly - Buffalo's offensive strength is in the wings. That one guy that can put the puck on Vanek and Stafford's stick will raise productivity.

 

So while Buffalo is still a good team - if they can find that one guy, four elements can really improve.

 

Bang on here. If we do make a move for a center, I hope he's more of a second/third line guy who plays a sound defensive game.

[waldo]

Yep, I agree with you. As long as they don't trade away our top 6 and find a way to get under the cap then I'm all for it. I think using a Kassian and Sekera plus the other team willing to take Pommers may land us a big guy. And it would help our salary cap situation with JP traded to fit the center we get under the cap. By the way I'm not contradicting myself, I think that Pommers is a good fit four our third line, not the top 2.

 

 

another excellent point. the first line needs a physical guy who can go to the boards on the forcheck and pass. twenty goals would be perfect and with vanek and leino that is not unreasonable for the other wing. for me neither Pom or Stafford fit that bill. Pom is fragile, not good on the boards, Staff is more durable on the boards, goes to the net ocassionally but is not a possesion guy plus he cannot pass worth a crap.

[LGR4GM]

With all this talk of centers, I am just thinking that it seems that the sabres organization had a plan going into the summer and they executed it. If a trade for something could be had, i feel like they would have down it. However it should tell us all something when the rumored Ottawa spezza trade would have seen Ennis, Roy and propsect headed back the other way. I think maybe the value teams have placed on these centers is too high and this team would be better off in the long run to not go trading a majority of their talent for 1 position. We feel they should because they have talent there now, but post trade we may feel different.

[Lanny]

With all this talk of centers, I am just thinking that it seems that the sabres organization had a plan going into the summer and they executed it. If a trade for something could be had, i feel like they would have down it. However it should tell us all something when the rumored Ottawa spezza trade would have seen Ennis, Roy and propsect headed back the other way. I think maybe the value teams have placed on these centers is too high and this team would be better off in the long run to not go trading a majority of their talent for 1 position. We feel they should because they have talent there now, but post trade we may feel different.

The value of that rumored offer has changed greatly now that Roy should once again be healthy. I think a big part of that "proposed" trade was that Roy was going to be out the remainder of the season. Therefore they would have a #1 center back in their lineup last year as well as going forward. With Roy back it makes no sense. I think Darcy & Co value Roy quite a bit higher than many around here.

[Weave]

Why Buffalo needs centers is not entirely scoring. Philly proved that Buffalo is vulnerable to a fore-check - and they were able to pin Buffalo in by taking away the center of the ice.

 

Secondly, there are the face-offs. Gaustad was solid in the defensive zone and had a good season- but organizationally it is still weak. (Heck, Dany Briere even did a backflip in the playoffs to get Gaustad thrown out - because Buffalo had no second option).

 

Thirdly, Entries: Most of the season Connolly was the only one with reliable entries into the offensive zone. Using d-men for entries is a high risk game - note vulnerability to the SH goals.

 

Lastly - Buffalo's offensive strength is in the wings. That one guy that can put the puck on Vanek and Stafford's stick will raise productivity.

 

So while Buffalo is still a good team - if they can find that one guy, four elements can really improve.

 

This is spot on. Especially points 1 and 3 in my mind. How many odd numbered rushed against us did we see last year? Alot of it was because we were forced to get our D so involved in the rush. Adequate centers mean the D don't have to be primary entry players and we don't give up so many odd man rushes. AND... the center ice becomes harder to defend meaning our wingers have more freedom to get open.

[LastPommerFan]

This is spot on. Especially points 1 and 3 in my mind. How many odd numbered rushed against us did we see last year? Alot of it was because we were forced to get our D so involved in the rush. Adequate centers mean the D don't have to be primary entry players and we don't give up so many odd man rushes. AND... the center ice becomes harder to defend meaning our wingers have more freedom to get open.

 

With the defensemen currently on the roster, I don't really see Lindy wanting to change the offensive role of the blue liners. I don't think it's so much looking for centers to reduce the offensive role of the defenders as it is looking for centers (and/or wingers, but most likely centers) that skate hard enough to cover for said defensemen, and looking for forwards with good puck control (like Leino) who are less likely to have giveaways high in the attacking zone.

[HopefulFuture]

Although I agree that center is the glaring weakness, I think it is exagerated to a certain extend on this board. The Sabres had one of the best records in the NHL over the entire second half of the season last year. The difference up the middle between then and now is that we lose the Tin Man (which 95% of the board is happy about) and gain (hopefully) a healthy Derek Roy, a bit of an experiment but talented Ville Lenio and possibly a more experienced Luke Adam. Everyone seems to project the roster without the kid. He did play what, 20 games for us last year? He's got a shot at the lineup.

I believe you need to re-evaluate your mindset with regards to this statement.

When the team is forced to play Hecht, Boyes or McCormick at center, it's not only an indication, but a very clear sign that the pivot position is on life-support for any depth at all.

 

Hecht, while a good 2 way defensive forward would be considered in the bottom of the pack for a 3rd line center, more of a 4th liner to be fair.

 

Boyes just is horrible at center and it actually significantly affected his ability to perform his production as a sniper.

 

McCormick is decent for a 4th line winger, but he certainly is no center, regardless of what website labels him as what.

 

All 3 of these players have 1 common dominator. They suck in the circle at face offs.

When you can't maintain control of the puck from it's drop, you usually end up playing alot of time in your own zone on defense. And in the past 4 seasons, that clearly showed through.

[dEnnis the Menace]

With the defensemen currently on the roster, I don't really see Lindy wanting to change the offensive role of the blue liners. I don't think it's so much looking for centers to reduce the offensive role of the defenders as it is looking for centers (and/or wingers, but most likely centers) that skate hard enough to cover for said defensemen, and looking for forwards with good puck control (like Leino) who are less likely to have giveaways high in the attacking zone.

 

I'd say he'll probably only adjust with the thought that two of his defensemen are definitely "stay at home" D-men and aren't huge offensive contributors (Weber and Regehr). Otherwise, I agree that he won't change the offensive role of these guys too much.

[LGR4GM]

I believe you need to re-evaluate your mindset with regards to this statement.

When the team is forced to play Hecht, Boyes or McCormick at center, it's not only an indication, but a very clear sign that the pivot position is on life-support for any depth at all.

 

Hecht, while a good 2 way defensive forward would be considered in the bottom of the pack for a 3rd line center, more of a 4th liner to be fair.

 

Boyes just is horrible at center and it actually significantly affected his ability to perform his production as a sniper.

 

McCormick is decent for a 4th line winger, but he certainly is no center, regardless of what website labels him as what.

 

All 3 of these players have 1 common dominator. They suck in the circle at face offs.

When you can't maintain control of the puck from it's drop, you usually end up playing alot of time in your own zone on defense. And in the past 4 seasons, that clearly showed through.

This does have some truth behind it. I was hoping the rangers would be more or less in cap trouble at this point but they arent, it would be nice if we could convince them to trade us one of their RFA centers (anisimov, dubinsky) but i feel like thats unlikely. Zenon Kanopka was available as a good fourth liner whos faceoff ability is widely acknowledged as very good but he was not acquired.

[apuszczalowski]

Miller almost won us the series last year single-handed. Now that we have a better D in front of him (let's not forget Myers, Sekera, Grags and Weber will be another year older and experienced come playoff time) I expect him to be good.

He also almost won the US the Gold last year at the olympics.......

 

But hey, lets run him out of town cause he hasn't carried the team on his back like probably one of the greatest goalies to ever play the game did for his time here in Buffalo (Hasek)

 

Anyone who can sit there and blame Miller for the Sabres not advancing deeper into the playoffs the last couple years really needs to take a step back and learn Hockey and actually watch games. The team in front of him was horrible against Philly and it was because of him that they stood a chance and went to game 7. They weren't going to win without him pitching shutouts every game

[waldo]

He also almost won the US the Gold last year at the olympics.......

 

But hey, lets run him out of town cause he hasn't carried the team on his back like probably one of the greatest goalies to ever play the game did for his time here in Buffalo (Hasek)

 

Anyone who can sit there and blame Miller for the Sabres not advancing deeper into the playoffs the last couple years really needs to take a step back and learn Hockey and actually watch games. The team in front of him was horrible against Philly and it was because of him that they stood a chance and went to game 7. They weren't going to win without him pitching shutouts every game

 

It is essier to ignore them than respond to their foolishness.

[Derrico]

It is essier to ignore them than respond to their foolishness.

 

Agreed, but it's just so tempting to respond....

[Derrico]

I believe you need to re-evaluate your mindset with regards to this statement.

When the team is forced to play Hecht, Boyes or McCormick at center, it's not only an indication, but a very clear sign that the pivot position is on life-support for any depth at all.

 

Hecht, while a good 2 way defensive forward would be considered in the bottom of the pack for a 3rd line center, more of a 4th liner to be fair.

 

Boyes just is horrible at center and it actually significantly affected his ability to perform his production as a sniper.

 

McCormick is decent for a 4th line winger, but he certainly is no center, regardless of what website labels him as what.

 

All 3 of these players have 1 common dominator. They suck in the circle at face offs.

When you can't maintain control of the puck from it's drop, you usually end up playing alot of time in your own zone on defense. And in the past 4 seasons, that clearly showed through.

 

Well how did we have one of the best records in the second half of the season last year?

[Weave]

Well how did we have one of the best records in the second half of the season last year?

 

The Flyers exploited our glaring weakness at center in the playoffs. You can get away with a significant weakness in the regular season because teams don't gameplan for their opponents. But in the postseason teams gameplan for each other and weaknesses are found and exploited. I don't care if we finish 1st or 8th in our division if we have a team that is going to succeed in the playoffs. To do that they'll need to address the lack of depth and talent at center.

 

It may very well be that Leino solves some of the center depth problem. But it is a gamble. And even if he works out at center we are still lacking in center depth should there be any injuries.

[Derrico]

The Flyers exploited our glaring weakness at center in the playoffs. You can get away with a significant weakness in the regular season because teams don't gameplan for their opponents. But in the postseason teams gameplan for each other and weaknesses are found and exploited. I don't care if we finish 1st or 8th in our division if we have a team that is going to succeed in the playoffs. To do that they'll need to address the lack of depth and talent at center.

 

It may very well be that Leino solves some of the center depth problem. But it is a gamble. And even if he works out at center we are still lacking in center depth should there be any injuries.

 

I found our weakness to be on D in that series. Our young guys played well in some stretches but there certainly were mistakes made on the back end, way too many rebound/second chances.

 

On a side note, I don't even remember Cody playing center. I though he was on the 4th line with Goose centering him. I guess once Roy went down he moved over and they brought Gaustad to the third line and Hecht to the second? Seems like the season was awhile ago.

[Weave]

I found our weakness to be on D in that series. Our young guys played well in some stretches but there certainly were mistakes made on the back end, way too many rebound/second chances.

 

On a side note, I don't even remember Cody playing center. I though he was on the 4th line with Goose centering him. I guess once Roy went down he moved over and they brought Gaustad to the third line and Hecht to the second? Seems like the season was awhile ago.

 

Philly was able to put so much pressure on our D because they took away center ice. We didn't have the personnel to keep Philly honest through center ice. It eliminated that outlet for passes out of the zone. Consequently Philly's forecheck was extremely effective. If we had the personnel to keep them honest through center ice it would have given more options for outlet passes and reduced the pressure on our defence.

 

Yeah, the defence folded, but it didn't happen in a vacuum. It happened because Philly exploited our weakness at center and eliminated avenues for our defence to initiate breakouts. As a result, the defence was pressured into giveaways and turnovers.