K-9 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Posted July 7, 2011 If they make other deals to get better, great. But they've upgraded considerably since taking a superior Philly team to seven games. I gotta believe, given that our D lost that series, that if we had Regehr and Ehrhoff, the Sabres win that series in spite of the injuries to JP and TC. Add a healthy Roy, an upgrade in Leino, and the fact that we match up well with and give the Bruins fits as it is, I don't think a return to winning the division and a #3 seed next year is out of the question. Any deal to obtain another center would be gravy at this point. We have the pieces in place now. GO SABRES!!!
Patty16 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Posted July 7, 2011 It took Larionov a few years to adjust to the smaller ice when he was in his late 20's. Selane, Bure, and Federov all played in the NHL in before age 22. Larionov was solid but not great either way. The others were poor examples but I was trying to say Leino has had a few years to adjust already, especially on the smaller surface.
LGR4GM Posted July 7, 2011 Report Posted July 7, 2011 He typically states it as "we." "We need to do a better job backchecking." He is a member of the team, and usually lumps himself in with the rest of the players. It's the fans who see it as Miller or the goaltending position as a separate entity. true and exactly my point, miller is a team guy and has been. We keep talking about intangibles well Ryan Miller has A LOT of them.
Derrico Posted July 7, 2011 Report Posted July 7, 2011 Because a different team with a different make-up wins the Cup every year. I don't this: "We should be like Detroit! No, wait, like Pittsburgh!! No no no, now we should be like Boston!!" We also shouldn't need to emulate anyone. Everyone basically understands the difference between good teams and bad teams, right? And we all know what playoff hockey looks like, right? Great, so build a good team that can win in the playoffs. Winning the Stanley Cup isn't like taking a trip to the grocery store. There isn't a recipe to follow and you don't even know what ingredients are available to add to the ones you currently have. Agreed, but again my original point was that I think there are different ways to build a team (same idea as you) and that doesn't necessarily mean by adding that top line center. I just pointed out that hey look, Boston won the cup without strength down the middle.
Sabre fan Posted July 7, 2011 Report Posted July 7, 2011 The Sabres now definately have a world-class defense...the team will need Miller to justify his massive salary, and not pull a Luongo, and the offense will need to score at some sort of regular pace for the team to succeed. It is interesting how Boston won with no real strength down the middle. Thomas was their number one man throughout the playoffs...I am not so sure Miller can win the team games, never mind series almost single-handed as Thomas did.
X. Benedict Posted July 7, 2011 Report Posted July 7, 2011 Larionov was solid but not great either way. The others were poor examples but I was trying to say Leino has had a few years to adjust already, especially on the smaller surface. Not sure what you mean by that exactly... Larionov might have been the best player on the best line in the world.
Derrico Posted July 7, 2011 Report Posted July 7, 2011 The Sabres now definately have a world-class defense...the team will need Miller to justify his massive salary, and not pull a Luongo, and the offense will need to score at some sort of regular pace for the team to succeed. It is interesting how Boston won with no real strength down the middle. Thomas was their number one man throughout the playoffs...I am not so sure Miller can win the team games, never mind series almost single-handed as Thomas did. Miller almost won us the series last year single-handed. Now that we have a better D in front of him (let's not forget Myers, Sekera, Grags and Weber will be another year older and experienced come playoff time) I expect him to be good.
Patty16 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Posted July 7, 2011 Not sure what you mean by that exactly... Larionov might have been the best player on the best line in the world. I mean exactly that. He's a great hockey player but he didnt dominate the NHL, he was past his prime when he came over. He was never a top scorer on the wings. His highest total was 71points in a season where he was outscored by paul coffey and the overall leader scored 161 points. Federov was clearly the best on that line, without a doubt. He might not have even been the best center on his team with Yzerman playing lights out at that time. Even Keith Primeau was putting up better numbers. So no he was not a dominate #1 center on the best line in the world.
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Posted July 7, 2011 +1 Here we go again with the Miller is just average argument... hahahaha good call
X. Benedict Posted July 7, 2011 Report Posted July 7, 2011 I mean exactly that. He's a great hockey player but he didnt dominate the NHL, he was past his prime when he came over. He was never a top scorer on the wings. His highest total was 71points in a season where he was outscored by paul coffey and the overall leader scored 161 points. Federov was clearly the best on that line, without a doubt. He might not have even been the best center on his team with Yzerman playing lights out at that time. Even Keith Primeau was putting up better numbers. So no he was not a dominate #1 center on the best line in the world. You could see Larionov and just look at numbers and it wouldn't tell you about his puck possession and vision. He could spend an entire shift with the puck on his stick in the neutral zone, and if you stopped chasing him, he'd attack. Really, since the Red Wings got Larionov they have remained a puck possession team ever since. Numbers aside, and I'm not saying Leino is Larionov....but Leino is a puck possessor that is coming to the NHL at a similar point in their careers.
waldo Posted July 7, 2011 Report Posted July 7, 2011 My point is that ppl I talk to are ready to jump off a bridge (ok maybe a slight exageration) that we don't have a '#1 Center'. I just commented that the strength of the defending Stanley Cup champions is not down the middle and it is from the goalie out. My point was more less to suggest a different approach to this offseason or even next offseason by looking at continually improving our D and maybe add a lower priced, top nine winger if we get the chance and not trade our team away for that Center. IMO the appeal of a #1 C is so great because we will be giving Vanek that playmaker that could put him over the top. If your trading Vanek to get it then it kind of defeats the purpose IMO. Excellent post.
Evan Almighty Posted July 7, 2011 Report Posted July 7, 2011 +26.8 the people who bring these foolish scenerios up must be either bored or NBA fans. Or someone who feels a center who possesses the puck and keeps the puck in the other team's zone and can help prevent us from getting outshot 15-1 in the first period of game 7 is absolutely essential to move into the top tier of teams in the league, even more important than a forward who makes his living cleaning up the mess in front of the net. Look, I love Vanek, but to say we can't even discuss moving him if it brings in a badly needed player is what is foolish.
Evan Almighty Posted July 7, 2011 Report Posted July 7, 2011 Let me also add that I only mentioned Vanek, Ennis and Kassian to make the general point that we are going to have to move someone good to get someone good. Some people here seem so personally attached to everyone on the team that they won't even consider moving them. If our guys are that good, then we should expect to be discussing how to defend our cup around this time next year, no? I think that's flawed thinking.
K-9 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Posted July 7, 2011 Or someone who feels a center who possesses the puck and keeps the puck in the other team's zone and can help prevent us from getting outshot 15-1 in the first period of game 7 is absolutely essential to move into the top tier of teams in the league, even more important than a forward who makes his living cleaning up the mess in front of the net. Look, I love Vanek, but to say we can't even discuss moving him if it brings in a badly needed player is what is foolish. The Sabres have addressed the reason we got outshot 15-1 in the first period of game 7. Heck, they've addressed the reason we lost that series. GO SABRES!!!
Weave Posted July 8, 2011 Report Posted July 8, 2011 Let me also add that I only mentioned Vanek, Ennis and Kassian to make the general point that we are going to have to move someone good to get someone good. Some people here seem so personally attached to everyone on the team that they won't even consider moving them. If our guys are that good, then we should expect to be discussing how to defend our cup around this time next year, no? I think that's flawed thinking. Does Team Stormcloud have any roster spots avialable? This guy has really high Corsi numbers. I think there is some potential here. :w00t:
Derrico Posted July 8, 2011 Report Posted July 8, 2011 Let me also add that I only mentioned Vanek, Ennis and Kassian to make the general point that we are going to have to move someone good to get someone good. Some people here seem so personally attached to everyone on the team that they won't even consider moving them. If our guys are that good, then we should expect to be discussing how to defend our cup around this time next year, no? I think that's flawed thinking. I'm alright moving most guys off this roster if it means improving the team but if you're trading Vanek you'd better be getting back one heck of a center. Having that top end guy feeding the puck to Brad Boyes and Jason Pominville just doesn't sound like improvement to me.
donteatyellowsnow Posted July 8, 2011 Report Posted July 8, 2011 Miller almost won us the series last year single-handed. Now that we have a better D in front of him (let's not forget Myers, Sekera, Grags and Weber will be another year older and experienced come playoff time) I expect him to be good. No doubt he played well in TWO games, but it was a 7 game series and he did give up 20 goals in the other 5 games, I do not consider that good at all. So for you to say he almost won the series single handed, couldn't be more wrong in my eyes. Shiit, Luongo had 2 shutouts in the finals and all anyone wants to say how bad he sucked in the finals. Miller did the same thing as Luongo and he is considered godlike. WTF, nothing like being hypocritical.
Derrico Posted July 8, 2011 Report Posted July 8, 2011 No doubt he played well in TWO games, but it was a 7 game series and he did give up 20 goals in the other 5 games, I do not consider that good at all. So for you to say he almost won the series single handed, couldn't be more wrong in my eyes. Shiit, Luongo had 2 shutouts in the finals and all anyone wants to say how bad he sucked in the finals. Miller did the same thing as Luongo and he is considered godlike. WTF, nothing like being hypocritical. For one, I never once compared Luongo to Miller so please don't put words in my mouth. For two, the D in front of Miller is EXTEREMLY inexperienced. You can't compare the Nucks D to ours period. That's the reason we went out this offseason and added two veteran D men (one from Vancouver ironically). Ya, Miller let in 4 goals in Game 7 but to blame him would be a joke. Did you actually watch the games or just read the stat sheet?
bunomatic Posted July 8, 2011 Report Posted July 8, 2011 For one, I never once compared Luongo to Miller so please don't put words in my mouth. For two, the D in front of Miller is EXTEREMLY inexperienced. You can't compare the Nucks D to ours period. That's the reason we went out this offseason and added two veteran D men (one from Vancouver ironically). Ya, Miller let in 4 goals in Game 7 but to blame him would be a joke. Did you actually watch the games or just read the stat sheet? And I might add that although Luongo went to the finals and got 2 shut outs he absolutely s-ucked in the games in Boston and in the final game in Vancouver dropping the ball and further cementing his reputation as a guy that can't get it done.
Derrico Posted July 8, 2011 Report Posted July 8, 2011 And I might add that although Luongo went to the finals and got 2 shut outs he absolutely s-ucked in the games in Boston and in the final game in Vancouver dropping the ball and further cementing his reputation as a guy that can't get it done. Good points, it was funny how it was the road games that he really struggled in. Either way though, I wouldn't compare the two goaltenders. I'd take Miller anyday.
deluca67 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Posted July 8, 2011 Agreed, but again my original point was that I think there are different ways to build a team (same idea as you) and that doesn't necessarily mean by adding that top line center. I just pointed out that hey look, Boston won the cup without strength down the middle. Center may not have been the Bruins strength last season but it is light-years ahead of what the Sabres are going into this season with. Right now the Sabres only have 3 centers on the roster, Roy, Gaustad and McCormick. That's a #2 center and two 4th line centers. I'm not saying I agree with the trade scenarios being tossed around. I will agree fans that are concerned about the lack of talent at center have every right to be.
deluca67 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Posted July 8, 2011 Does Team Stormcloud have any roster spots avialable? This guy has really high Corsi numbers. I think there is some potential here. :w00t: Yes, the Dark-side is strong in this one. :devil:
Derrico Posted July 8, 2011 Report Posted July 8, 2011 Center may not have been the Bruins strength last season but it is light-years ahead of what the Sabres are going into this season with. Right now the Sabres only have 3 centers on the roster, Roy, Gaustad and McCormick. That's a #2 center and two 4th line centers. I'm not saying I agree with the trade scenarios being tossed around. I will agree fans that are concerned about the lack of talent at center have every right to be. I agree they're better. Remember VL and probably Adam or Hecht will be a center as well though so you must count them. But arguably our wingers are superior to Boston. Our D is looking just as good, if not better and then it comes down to Miller. Will he be as good as Thomas was? That will be a serious question. But to get back on topic, just to say that we lack talent at center is rudimentary IMO. Anyone can say oh we need an upgrade there but let's face the facts, we're over the cap and would need a trade to pull this off. I'd love to trade the right pieces to get that center but thus far all concerned have not given much in the way of how to pull this off. I'm saying a different way to accomplish this feat is by loading up at all other positions (which we're pretty good at right now) and therefore mask our weakness at center. As many have jumped to defend, there is no one way at building a stanley cup team and I just think we should be weary of trading big pieces of our team to address the one weakness we have or our current strengths may no longer be there once a trade is complete.
inkman Posted July 8, 2011 Report Posted July 8, 2011 Dion Phaneuf was had for a package of players. Byfuglien was had for a package of players and picks. Kovalchuk was traded for a bunch of people i've barely heard of.. Oduya the only one I really know. Penner for a player ...and nonenof those players are as complete a player as Stastny is. I'm hoping it can be done but I just don't see it. Call me a pessimist.
Bullwinkle Posted July 8, 2011 Report Posted July 8, 2011 Boston had Tim Thomas playing out of his mind posting shutouts. Unless you watched the playoffs and thought Miller can play that well for that long, you need a #1 center. Miller had as many shutouts as Thomas did.
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