Will there be anymore deals?

[Patty16]

I've said this before. There is no need to get a 1st line center at this time. Another 3rd line center? Maybe, but that's not an urgency either.

 

Boston won the Cup with no superstar in the center position. Why can't we do the same?

 

At this time the top centers are treated as if they were made of platinum. Therefore if we were to make a deal, I'd go for someone like Hanzal in Phx or O'Reilly in Colorado. These guys are stars of the future. Oh sure, we have Adam but I think we need to look long and hard at whether he holds the potential of other guys we might acquire.

 

 

Boston had Tim Thomas playing out of his mind posting shutouts. Unless you watched the playoffs and thought Miller can play that well for that long, you need a #1 center.

[Weave]

Not a fan of the thinking that Boston won the cup without pieces x and y, so we can too. Boston was the weakest cup winner since the lockout. Had Crosby and Malkin not been hurt I think Pittsburgh would have marched through the East quite easily. In the fianls, Boston was extremely fortunate to run up against: 1) an easily rattled goalie 2) an injured Ryan Kesler and 3) the soft Sedin sisters who flawlessly peformed their famous postseason disappearing act

 

Washington is still a juggernaut and got even more talented in the past few weeks, Pittsburgh will be healthy again, and assuming Tampa resigns everyone they will have more talent than Buffalo currently does. If the Sabres want a real shot at the cup, they need a #1 center. That may not be available right now or even this year, but at some point one has to be aquired. If that means giving up Vanek plus Ennis or Kassian, so be it.

 

All good points. Not sure giving up Vanek plus Ennis is going to make that sort of move worthwhile but your premise is accurate, we'll need to move value to get value back.

[waldo]

Not a fan of the thinking that Boston won the cup without pieces x and y, so we can too. Boston was the weakest cup winner since the lockout. Had Crosby and Malkin not been hurt I think Pittsburgh would have marched through the East quite easily. In the fianls, Boston was extremely fortunate to run up against: 1) an easily rattled goalie 2) an injured Ryan Kesler and 3) the soft Sedin sisters who flawlessly peformed their famous postseason disappearing act

 

Washington is still a juggernaut and got even more talented in the past few weeks, Pittsburgh will be healthy again, and assuming Tampa resigns everyone they will have more talent than Buffalo currently does. If the Sabres want a real shot at the cup, they need a #1 center. That may not be available right now or even this year, but at some point one has to be aquired. If that means giving up Vanek plus Ennis or Kassian, so be it. Granted the safe course of action is to trade for a one and hope yopu end up with two 1s when Leino developes.

 

Not that Vanek and Ennis should not be on the block under the right cicumstances i cannot see moving both for a one center. (not necerssary/plenty of other desirable less disruptive pieces.) They are a ton of offense both real and potential. More importantly they are proven post season commodities and like others do not disappear in the playoffs. I think the deal can get done with far less than that under the right circumstances. Many here seem to forget that Leino may turn out to be that true 1 center the SAbres are looking for if paired with Vanek and a opposite side winger that can score, pass and go to the boards.We may all get surprised. He has all the skill sets and most importantly the vision.Granted that the safe course of action is to trade for a one and hope Leino develops into a guy who can also center the one line. The other option is patience to see how things work out.

[Gramps]

I'd offer up Sekera/Boyes/picks for a #2 center ... it's been correctly pointed out that Boston won the cup w/o a superstar #1 center.

Defense/goaltending wins cups and I'm ecstatic about our defensive potential.

[Derrico]

I'd offer up Sekera/Boyes/picks for a #2 center ... it's been correctly pointed out that Boston won the cup w/o a superstar #1 center.

Defense/goaltending wins cups and I'm ecstatic about our defensive potential.

 

Good point. I would also make that move if available.

[carpandean]

Defense/goaltending wins cups.

That's a cliche over generalization. You need to be very good offensively and defensively (note: Boston was 5th in goals per game in the regular season), and you better be excellent in at least one. In fact, I'd expand that to say that you need to be very good in terms of top-line(s) scoring, role-player scoring, offense from your defense (moving the puck up the ice, jumping in, etc.), shut-down play from your defense, defensive support from your forwards, and goaltending, and you better be excellent at a few of these. In other words, you can't have any real weaknesses and you need to be better than your opponents in some areas.

 

The Sabres have been so thin up the middle for four years that it's hurt both their primary and secondary scoring. It's asking a lot to think that Hecht and Leino, as centers, will really lead to big contributions from two of your three top lines. I do think that they've strengthened their D enough that they could get away without a stud #1 center, but they need another solid one. Leino may, indeed, make that transition back, but I am very skeptical. His last two years at center (in Finland), he had 12G/31A in 56GP and 11G/29A in 50GP. The next season (still he Finland), he moved to wing and scored 28G/49A in 55GP. He may like it better at center, but is he a better player there? Time will tell ... unless we make a move that keeps him on the wing.

[Robviously]

Not a fan of the thinking that Boston won the cup without pieces x and y, so we can too.

THIS.

 

I can't stand it when fans look at whichever team most recently won a championship in a sport and then decide that that team is the blueprint they want their team to follow to win a championship.

[Patty16]

I'd offer up Sekera/Boyes/picks for a #2 center ... it's been correctly pointed out that Boston won the cup w/o a superstar #1 center.

Defense/goaltending wins cups and I'm ecstatic about our defensive potential.

 

Funny bc Boston scored a goal per game more the entire postseason than Van. One can just as easily say offense wins.

While Boston had a good GA/G they also let up a ton of shots. In 12/16 wins they were outshot by the opponent.

 

Funny how the teams with TOP 5 offenses AND defenses made the Finals.

 

Sure you can say defense and goaltending wins, but thats incomplete, you need scoring.

 

That's a cliche over generalization. You need to be very good offensively and defensively (note: Boston was 5th in goals per game in the regular season), and you better be excellent in at least one. In fact, I'd expand that to say that you need to be very good in terms of top-line(s) scoring, role-player scoring, offense from your defense (moving the puck up the ice, jumping in, etc.), shut-down play from your defense, defensive support from your forwards, and goaltending, and you better be excellent at a few of these. In other words, you can't have any real weaknesses and you need to better than your opponents in some areas.

 

The Sabres have been so thin up the middle for four years that it's hurt both their primary and secondary scoring. It's asking a lot to think that Hecht and Leino, as centers, will really lead to big contributions from two of your three top lines. I do think that they've strengthened their D enough that they could get away without a stud #1 center, but they need another solid one. Leino may, indeed, make that transition back, but I am very skeptical. His last two years at center (in Finland), he had 12G/31A in 56GP and 11G/29A in 50GP. The next season (still he Finland), he moved to wing and scored 28G/49A in 55GP. He may like it better at center, but is he a better player there? Time will tell ... unless we make a move that keeps him on the wing.

 

+1

 

I really doubt Leino will be a #1 in the sense we are considering it. The guy is 28 and hasnt been a #1 in years. The superstars are stars well before 28 years old, (rarely a goalie breaks through- Hasek-Thomas) ......

He does have the potential to be a very productive 60-70 pt player if he maxes out.

 

He is a piece to the puzzle but not the missing piece.

[X. Benedict]

I'd offer up Sekera/Boyes/picks for a #2 center ... it's been correctly pointed out that Boston won the cup w/o a superstar #1 center.

or anything that resembled a power play.

 

Defense/goaltending wins cups and I'm ecstatic about our defensive potential.

 

I actually think it may take 20 games to come together, but me too.

[dEnnis the Menace]

Funny bc Boston scored a goal per game more the entire postseason than Van. One can just as easily say offense wins.

While Boston had a good GA/G they also let up a ton of shots. In 12/16 wins they were outshot by the opponent.

 

Funny how the teams with TOP 5 offenses AND defenses made the Finals.

 

Sure you can say defense and goaltending wins, but thats incomplete, you need scoring.

 

 

 

+1

 

I really doubt Leino will be a #1 in the sense we are considering it. The guy is 28 and hasnt been a #1 in years. The superstars are stars well before 28 years old, (rarely a goalie breaks through- Hasek-Thomas) ......

He does have the potential to be a very productive 60-70 pt player if he maxes out.

 

He is a piece to the puzzle but not the missing piece.

 

+1 nice summary, and I agree with everything here.

[LGR4GM]

Isn't Leino our number 2 center now? I am all for trading to improve the team but when we start talking trading Vanek than I dont see a number 2 center coming back, i see Evgeni Malkin coming back. I understand that its just an idea and that the two players i am going to use as possible acquisitions may be below what vanek would fetch but, let us use our two favorite centers when it comes to trade talk and see what ppl think.

 

With the exception of last year (09-10) Vanek will get 30-40 goals and 65-75pts or potentially more every season (for the next few years.) Spezza has 73 pts, 57, 57 in the last 3 seasons and Stastny has 36, 79, 57pts in the last 3 seasons and ergo neither is better than Vanek. Vanek will sit in front of the net and take a lot of abuse, he will go into the dirty areas, hes got silky smooth hands and can score like it's his job, and Vanek had 5 goals in 7 playoff games this year and we all say that we could have beat boston last year if not for the vanek injury. Vanek is not injured terribly often. Vanek has played more regular season games over the past 3 seasons than the two guys we are discussing possibly trading him for.

 

Now you toss in ennis and i bet any team would take that deal without thinking. Tyler Ennis: a 49pt(20g, 29a), 21yr old rookie who has afinogenov's speed and skills but can pass and shoot twice as good, and Vanek a 30+ goal scorer in 4 of his 6 nhl seasons and a 2 time 40 goal scorer. That equals someone a lot better than Spezza.I think trading ennis at this point would be a huge mistake. There were times last season where he skated circles around veteran defenders and instead of pulling a max and losing the puck, he made a pass or shot or actually did something with it. Ennis should be ranked just below Myers in terms of young talent not to be traded. Of course that is just my opinion of Ennis but his skills are impressive and if he adds about 10-15 pds to his 5'9" frame he could be a force and i think we may see him as a force this year.

 

...its too bad that Vanek wasn't born a center.

[X. Benedict]

 

 

+1

 

I really doubt Leino will be a #1 in the sense we are considering it. The guy is 28 and hasnt been a #1 in years. The superstars are stars well before 28 years old, (rarely a goalie breaks through- Hasek-Thomas) ......

He does have the potential to be a very productive 60-70 pt player if he maxes out.

 

He is a piece to the puzzle but not the missing piece.

 

I think the proper analogy might be Igor Larionov and some of the other Russians that came to the NHL when things opened up, they came in their late 20's and were successful through their 30's.

[Patty16]

I think the proper analogy might be Igor Larionov and some of the other Russians that came to the NHL when things opened up, they came in their late 20's and were successful through their 30's.

True, but those guys were elite players from the Soviet era, compared to a guy from the Finnish league. They had almost instant success whereas Leino is arguably still adjusting three years later.

 

In any event, I agree with your premise but i dont think we have the next, Bure, Federov, Larinov or even Selanne on our hands.

[X. Benedict]

True, but those guys were elite players from the Soviet era, compared to a guy from the Finnish league. They had almost instant success whereas Leino is arguably still adjusting three years later.

 

In any event, I agree with your premise but i dont think we have the next, Bure, Federov, Larinov or even Selanne on our hands.

 

It took Larionov a few years to adjust to the smaller ice when he was in his late 20's.

 

Selane, Bure, and Federov all played in the NHL in before age 22.

[donteatyellowsnow]

I'd offer up Sekera/Boyes/picks for a #2 center ... it's been correctly pointed out that Boston won the cup w/o a superstar #1 center.

Defense/goaltending wins cups and I'm ecstatic about our defensive potential.

 

 

No excuses for Miller any more! Either he puts up or him and all his faithful shut up!

 

and I mean win a few playoff series. He's 0-3 in his last 3 series, twice losing to lower seeds who had Ray Emery, Tukka Rask, and the three headed monster in Philly as their netminders, not exactally stellar goalies.

[waldo]

Isn't Leino our number 2 center now? I am all for trading to improve the team but when we start talking trading Vanek than I dont see a number 2 center coming back, i see Evgeni Malkin coming back. I understand that its just an idea and that the two players i am going to use as possible acquisitions may be below what vanek would fetch but, let us use our two favorite centers when it comes to trade talk and see what ppl think.

 

With the exception of last year (09-10) Vanek will get 30-40 goals and 65-75pts or potentially more every season (for the next few years.) Spezza has 73 pts, 57, 57 in the last 3 seasons and Stastny has 36, 79, 57pts in the last 3 seasons and ergo neither is better than Vanek. Vanek will sit in front of the net and take a lot of abuse, he will go into the dirty areas, hes got silky smooth hands and can score like it's his job, and Vanek had 5 goals in 7 playoff games this year and we all say that we could have beat boston last year if not for the vanek injury. Vanek is not injured terribly often. Vanek has played more regular season games over the past 3 seasons than the two guys we are discussing possibly trading him for.

 

...its too bad that Vanek wasn't born a center.

 

+26.8

 

the people who bring these foolish scenerios up must be either bored or NBA fans.

[Sabre fan]

I agree...Miller is very quick to blame everyone on the team but himself after a loss, and yet as you state, gets out-played by some pretty sad opponents. Furthermore, giving up Vanek and Kassien and Ennis and picks, or any combo, for a center, would be pretty strange. You can't weaken the team significantly, then hope one player coming the other way can make all the difference. And anyone who suggest giving Roy and or Luke Adam is really pushing it, cause you do not trade from your weakness (the only weakness clearly down the middle), but from your strengths (depth at defense and the wings, as well as draft picks). I do suspect we will see a center coming in some sort of trade. Hopefully Darcy can steal one like he stole Regehr.

[X. Benedict]

No excuses for Miller any more! Either he puts up or him and all his faithful shut up!

 

All his faithful?

 

and I mean win a few playoff series. He's 0-3 in his last 3 series, twice losing to lower seeds who had Ray Emery, Tukka Rask, and the three headed monster in Philly as their netminders, not exactally stellar goalies.

 

Miller stopped every shot Emery, Rask, Bobrosky, Boucher, and Leighton took in those games.

[dEnnis the Menace]

All his faithful?

 

 

Miller stopped every shot Emery, Rask, Bobrosky, Boucher, and Leighton took in those games.

 

 

+1

 

 

Here we go again with the Miller is just average argument...

[Derrico]

THIS.

 

I can't stand it when fans look at whichever team most recently won a championship in a sport and then decide that that team is the blueprint they want their team to follow to win a championship.

 

Why would you not want to emulate the makeup of a team that won it all?

[thesportsbuff]

Why would you not want to emulate the makeup of a team that won it all?

 

I think the point is that a different team, often with a different make up, wins it every year. Detroit wins the cup and people want to model the Sabres after them.. but it can't be done in one season. Yet the next year a completely different Bruins team wins the cup, and people say to model after them. What about the Detroit re-modeling we've already done? Scratch that and start building like the Bruins? Next year, oh I donno, the Sharks win the cup. Oh! Scrap the Bruins plan, let's be San Jose next!

[dEnnis the Menace]

I think the point is that a different team, often with a different make up, wins it every year. Detroit wins the cup and people want to model the Sabres after them.. but it can't be done in one season. Yet the next year a completely different Bruins team wins the cup, and people say to model after them. What about the Detroit re-modeling we've already done? Scratch that and start building like the Bruins? Next year, oh I donno, the Sharks win the cup. Oh! Scrap the Bruins plan, let's be San Jose next!

 

Look at the last 4 cup winners, and all of them are built differently. This team needs to focus on what kind of build we need using Tyler Myers, Thomas Vanek, and Ryan Miller as the core. I think they are doing that. We will be a defensive poewrhouse, with decent scoring (we were 9th last year, and I believe that trend will continue this year).

[Derrico]

I think the point is that a different team, often with a different make up, wins it every year. Detroit wins the cup and people want to model the Sabres after them.. but it can't be done in one season. Yet the next year a completely different Bruins team wins the cup, and people say to model after them. What about the Detroit re-modeling we've already done? Scratch that and start building like the Bruins? Next year, oh I donno, the Sharks win the cup. Oh! Scrap the Bruins plan, let's be San Jose next!

 

My point is that ppl I talk to are ready to jump off a bridge (ok maybe a slight exageration) that we don't have a '#1 Center'. I just commented that the strength of the defending Stanley Cup champions is not down the middle and it is from the goalie out. My point was more less to suggest a different approach to this offseason or even next offseason by looking at continually improving our D and maybe add a lower priced, top nine winger if we get the chance and not trade our team away for that Center. IMO the appeal of a #1 C is so great because we will be giving Vanek that playmaker that could put him over the top. If your trading Vanek to get it then it kind of defeats the purpose IMO.

[LGR4GM]

I agree...Miller is very quick to blame everyone on the team but himself after a loss, and yet as you state, gets out-played by some pretty sad opponents. Furthermore, giving up Vanek and Kassien and Ennis and picks, or any combo, for a center, would be pretty strange. You can't weaken the team significantly, then hope one player coming the other way can make all the difference. And anyone who suggest giving Roy and or Luke Adam is really pushing it, cause you do not trade from your weakness (the only weakness clearly down the middle), but from your strengths (depth at defense and the wings, as well as draft picks). I do suspect we will see a center coming in some sort of trade. Hopefully Darcy can steal one like he stole Regehr.

Let's discuss this statement for a second.

 

1) a great leader will always push those around him, miller does

2) a great leader will always ask more of those around him, miller does

3) a great leader does not openly admit to weakness but instead internalizes it and finds a remedy themselves, miller does

4) a leader says the right thing even if it upsets ppl, miller does

5) a leader does not single out teammates to criticize but refers to them indirectly allowing them to hear the truth but not be berated by outside sources, miller does this

6) a leader will lead by example, miller does that when hes always working hard even when his team isn't

7) a leader takes responsibility, miller does

8) finally a leader will take a loss harder than anyone else and then rebound to be better than anyone else, miller does

 

Ryan Miller is the type of player with intangibles that everyone wants on their team. He is a leader. Ever hear anyone say something like "miller needs to take responsibility because he did this or that" no because they know miller understands his own mistakes and wants them to as well. Miller says things like "the forwards were not backchecking tonight and that resulted in a lot of good scoring opportunities" thats a blanket statement aimed at a small group and does not include all the forwards. He makes it to let the players on his team know they need to evaluate their game and fix things. Miller helps make the sabres, I think he played poorly this year in comparison to last season but I bet you Ryan Miller will work to correct that poor play as I think winning means more to him than his paycheck, his anger after a loss shows that he gives a rats-ass

[Robviously]

Why would you not want to emulate the makeup of a team that won it all?

Because a different team with a different make-up wins the Cup every year. I don't this: "We should be like Detroit! No, wait, like Pittsburgh!! No no no, now we should be like Boston!!"

 

We also shouldn't need to emulate anyone. Everyone basically understands the difference between good teams and bad teams, right? And we all know what playoff hockey looks like, right? Great, so build a good team that can win in the playoffs.

 

Winning the Stanley Cup isn't like taking a trip to the grocery store. There isn't a recipe to follow and you don't even know what ingredients are available to add to the ones you currently have.