HopefulFuture Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 Well the writer overstates the Sabres cap situation a bit ... they can go 10% over the cap in the offseason, so really they are still $6 million under the offseason cap ... they can easily add those guys and get under for opening day by sending Kotalik down and trading Morrissonn for a bag of pucks. Not to say that they are not looking to make a deal, but I think they are pretty comfortable with the team they have and it has to be the right deal ... not a panic deal to get under the cap. Agree once again. But just the fact that we now have assets in the stockpen to potentially deal to hopefully make the club better is pretty exciting. Although, with this article, I can't see what Nashville has that would fill a need for the Sabres, but I can see Columbus as a potential trade partner.
Bullwinkle Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 Your statement that got me going on this was: "I simply fail to understand how a PPG player can be a liability to a team." So am giving you an example of how a PPG player CAN be a liability. Not how he ALWAYS is, but how he CAN be. They pay him the money because they think they can cover up his weaknesses with their system or teammates who are better at other things or possibly out of arrogance that they can "change" him and make him play the system. Again, I am not saying he is completely useless to have around, but he's far from a complete player, and any player like that CAN be a liability no matter how much he scores. Yes, you are correct, if you take all the goals he scores or creates and put them on one side of the ledger and all the goals he costs you on the other side, the good side is going to be bigger. But that's not how you keep score in hockey ... it's game-to-game, and he is going to cost you games. My issue was with the blanket statement above about PPG players in general can't be a liability. Maybe a couple guys he win you enough to make up for it ... if the next Gretzky or Lemieux comes along and starts putting up 175-point seasons, that guy will probably not kill you no matter how many goals he costs you ... but that's not the case for EVERY PPG player. Yes, when I said a PPG player isn't a liability I meant in his entirety, not in certain areas of his game. OK, if PPG players can be liabilities, then why are there no PPG players not playing in the NHL? e.g. Yashin (a famous scoring liability) was sub-par in many areas but he stayed in the NHL for 12 seasons because of his scoring prowess. He hit a PPG in his 6th & 7th seasons. When he fell off that pace, he was dumped. If I recall, he might have been a head case, but that is a whole other topic. Can you cite me a PPG player who was dumped WHILE he was scoring at a PPG clip? I can't find one.
Bullwinkle Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 Future Considerations. Just getting Boyes and Hecht off the roster is more than enough. I still think they'll hang on to Boyes just to see if he can come around.
james duncan Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 I still think they'll hang on to Boyes just to see if he can come around. Boyes was playing out of position. Jury is still out on how good he really can be. But he looked very uncomfortable after making that move. I do think he'll look better back on the wing. I know the depth at center was not good but I never saw Ennis tried there and thought he'd be a much better option than Hecht or Boyes.
shrader Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 Don't you find it compelling that the Thrashers improved substantially after Kovy left, while the Devils fell off the table? I'm fine with the whole idea here, but I'm not so sure why you're saying Atlanta got substantially better. Yeah they had the good start, but they wound up 3 points behind where they were the previous season. Still, they were at worst the same team they were with Kovalchuk.
Bullwinkle Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 Boyes was playing out of position. Jury is still out on how good he really can be. But he looked very uncomfortable after making that move. I do think he'll look better back on the wing. I know the depth at center was not good but I never saw Ennis tried there and thought he'd be a much better option than Hecht or Boyes. I'd like to see Ennis at center. With his skating ability, I think he could excel there if he's able to bear down and concentrate on the increased responsibilities he would have.
RazielSabre Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 Future Considerations. Just getting Boyes and Hecht off the roster is more than enough. Wow..Just wow. Your a rival GM's dream. Why not give away Miller and Vanek for a 4th rounder?
X. Benedict Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 If what you say is true, then why would Kovalchuk get paid big bucks? Wouldn't make sense unless his assets outweighed his liabilities. That's what happens when an owner tells his GM....."I want Kovalchuk as part of my plan for marketing my new arena".
Drunkard Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 Not for nothing, but here is a site posing a possible deal with Nashville: http://www.smashville247.net/2011/07/are-preds-in-perfect-spot-to-make-move.html If we gave them Boyes & Hecht, whom would you want in return? Spaling (I don't think they'd let him go) or O'Reilley? (him either) Picks? Just wondering.... I don't watch enough Nashville games to be familiar with their team, so I'm not sure who their centers are other than Legwand and Fisher. If they were willing to give up a solid center with a lower cap hit, I'd gladly give up Hecht or Boyes, preferably Boyes though since Hecht can at least shift to center in a pinch without completely disappearing.
Bullwinkle Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 I don't watch enough Nashville games to be familiar with their team, so I'm not sure who their centers are other than Legwand and Fisher. If they were willing to give up a solid center with a lower cap hit, I'd gladly give up Hecht or Boyes, preferably Boyes though since Hecht can at least shift to center in a pinch without completely disappearing. Legwand isn't what we need, neither is Fisher (besides, his wife would divorce him if he left Nashville). Aside from the promising prospects I mentioned, there isn't much there to be had (excluding of course, Weber and Rinne). And aside from their abilities, Nashville needs their salaries. As was mentioned by someone else, Columbus might be a more suitable partner but I'm thinking Phoenix is more promising (Hanzal anyone?).
Bullwinkle Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 That's what happens when an owner tells his GM....."I want Kovalchuk as part of my plan for marketing my new arena". But still, the bottom line is - he's still in demand because of his scoring.
X. Benedict Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 Can you cite me a PPG player who was dumped WHILE he was scoring at a PPG clip? I can't find one. Brad Richards comes closest.
X. Benedict Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 But still, the bottom line is - he's still in demand because of his scoring. As long as he has a wrist shot from the right hand of Zeus...he'll probably have a place in the league. However, I don't think you can build a team around a wrist shot from the wing. At least not one that will win for very long. But let's make my bias perfectly transparent....I don't think you can win with Kovulchuk. Float, floated, has floated, will float. He's not my cup of tea. But this is a tired discussion coming from me. That's my bias.
donteatyellowsnow Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 As long as he has a wrist shot from the right hand of Zeus...he'll probably have a place in the league. However, I don't think you can build a team around a wrist shot from the wing. At least not one that will win for very long. But let's make my bias perfectly transparent....I don't think you can win with Kovulchuk. Float, floated, has floated, will float. He's not my cup of tea. But this is a tired discussion coming from me. That's my bias. When Kovalchuk scores 50 and is a minus 20, isn't that like him scoring 30? Isn't that the same as a guy scoring 20 and being a plus 10? I'll take the guy who scores 50 and is a minus 20 over the guy who only scores 20 and is a plus 10.
waldo Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 Future Considerations. Just getting Boyes and Hecht off the roster is more than enough. :D
deluca67 Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 You're praising a team based on a 28 game stretch in which they performed well? What about the 13 game stretch after that where they had 0.84 points/game or the 41 games before where they had 0.56 points/game? Oh, that's right, that kind of argument only works against Drew Stafford. :nana: I wasn't arguing that the Devils deserve a ridiculous raise based on that stretch of games.
deluca67 Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 Wow..Just wow. Your a rival GM's dream. Why not give away Miller and Vanek for a 4th rounder? Are you saying Boyes and Hecht are the same level of player as Miller and Vanek? :doh:
Lanny Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 Not for nothing, but here is a site posing a possible deal with Nashville: http://www.smashville247.net/2011/07/are-preds-in-perfect-spot-to-make-move.html If we gave them Boyes & Hecht, whom would you want in return? Spaling (I don't think they'd let him go) or O'Reilley? (him either) Picks? Just wondering.... The basis that the writer is working from is flawed. The Sabres aren't that close to the cap without Kotalik or Morrisonn's contracts in the NHL.
Bullwinkle Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 Can you cite me a PPG player who was dumped WHILE he was scoring at a PPG clip? I can't find one. Brad Richards comes closest. I think you misunderstand. Brad Richards was in very hot demand earlier this month. Hardly a player a team would want to dump. I'm talking about a PPG player whom no one wants. No such thing as far as I know, regardless of his +/-
shrader Posted July 16, 2011 Report Posted July 16, 2011 I think you misunderstand. Brad Richards was in very hot demand earlier this month. Hardly a player a team would want to dump. I'm talking about a PPG player whom no one wants. No such thing as far as I know, regardless of his +/- How about when Tampa shipped him away?
SwampD Posted July 17, 2011 Report Posted July 17, 2011 So, the Devils had a huge shake up in their defense to start the year last year. It then took a half a season to get it together, and everyone blames the offense (Kovy) for their problems. Did anyone watch the Sabres last year?
Bullwinkle Posted July 17, 2011 Report Posted July 17, 2011 How about when Tampa shipped him away? Is he not still playing in this league? Is he not a multi-millionaire who had a variety of teams to choose from?
shrader Posted July 17, 2011 Report Posted July 17, 2011 Is he not still playing in this league? Is he not a multi-millionaire who had a variety of teams to choose from? They like to say that, but I get the feeling that it was really only the two usual teams pushing for him. Buffalo was throwing huge money around and look how quickly they backed away from him.
inkman Posted July 17, 2011 Report Posted July 17, 2011 When Kovalchuk scores 50 and is a minus 20, isn't that like him scoring 30? Isn't that the same as a guy scoring 20 and being a plus 10? I'll take the guy who scores 50 and is a minus 20 over the guy who only scores 20 and is a plus 10. Maybe im wrong but I thought PP goals don't count toward +/-. So let's say 20 of his 50 are on the PP, so a -10 really equates to him being on the ice for 40 of the opponents goals. I think that's right and not surprising.
TheChimp Posted July 17, 2011 Report Posted July 17, 2011 I honestly never much cared what they look like - but the pic of Persson on this article made me recoil, and Turnbull wasn't much better. I clicked on a few more and grew more and more repulsed as I went. So much for the days of the heart throb hockey players. These guys could make a train take a dirt road. Like Don Luce?
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