Will there be anymore deals?

[spndnchz]

I wouldn't mind a Niedermayer type signing to add a little more depth up the middle and bump Hecht to the wing. I guess the only problem is that it would bring back all of the status quo posts.

 

 

 

He's still out there...maybe his knee will check out healthy in August...he could come back and make things right...I could see him winning faceoffs and scoring a big goal in the playoffs...maybe, maybe, it could happen.

 

Nieds is playing next season with Lugano in Switzerland.

[X. Benedict]

 

 

I think I've shown that right now Stastny = Roy. The stats bear that out.

 

Different players in my mind.

 

The really nice thing about Stastsny is his vision and his ability to use his teammates, and find open seems. He's a better playmaker than Roy, IMO. And a smarter player with better net presence.

 

Roy really is the better skater and puck-handler. Flashier. Faster too.

[nfreeman]

Nieds is playing next season with Lugano in Switzerland.

I wasn't referring to Nieds.

[nfreeman]

This is the type of move that would have helped the sabres this year. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=371576

hes not anything more than a 3rd line center but for a 2nd round pick which we have 2 of, i think it could not have hurt. Of course it also makes me wonder if the sabres are looking for something better than a possible 40pt a year guy (although he wins faceoffs according to the article)

Enough babbling. Not every move that every team league-wide makes for a center is one the Sabres should have made. Cogliano has just been given up on by one of the worst teams in the NHL for the past 3 years. He's 5'10", 184 lbs. His faceoff % last year was under 42%. He's also scheduled for arbitration this summer, so Anaheim could find itself well overpaying for a career mediocrity.

 

Hecht is a much better option at the #3 center than this loser.

[LGR4GM]

Enough babbling. Not every move that every team league-wide makes for a center is one the Sabres should have made. Cogliano has just been given up on by one of the worst teams in the NHL for the past 3 years. He's 5'10", 184 lbs. His faceoff % last year was under 42%. He's also scheduled for arbitration this summer, so Anaheim could find itself well overpaying for a career mediocrity.

 

Hecht is a much better option at the #3 center than this loser.

theres been plenty of moves that the sabres haven't made that they should not have. However i dont see Hecht as improving anymore, hes peaked, and i was just saying that a 2nd round pick for a nhl 3rd line center is the type of move i think the sabres maybe looking for. I do not think they have any plans to get a actual #1 center this season.

[LastPommerFan]

I wasn't referring to Nieds.

 

But how do you fit him in?

[X. Benedict]

Enough babbling. Not every move that every team league-wide makes for a center is one the Sabres should have made. Cogliano has just been given up on by one of the worst teams in the NHL for the past 3 years. He's 5'10", 184 lbs. His faceoff % last year was under 42%. He's also scheduled for arbitration this summer, so Anaheim could find itself well overpaying for a career mediocrity.

 

Hecht is a much better option at the #3 center than this loser.

 

Cogliano is fun to watch but also can cause aneurysms. (see Afinogenov)

[nfreeman]

But how do you fit him in?

Well, I'm assuming he'll play for pretty low $$ -- $1MM per year or thereabouts. I'm also assuming that they either trade or send down Kotalik and Morrisson. IIRC, that would give them just enough room to sign a $1MM player -- although I guess another move would be needed to give them enough cap flexibility for injury callups during the year. Not sure whether starting Pommer on LTIR would help in this regard.

 

I also wouldn't be surprised if they unloaded Hecht in addition to Big Al and Shaone (or perhaps in addition to Al and instead of Shaone, since I think on balance it's in their best interests to keep Shaone). Hecht is a pretty decent player, and although he's well overpaid, he only has 1 year left on his contract at $3.5MM. Since he's not that expensive in absolute dollars and since this is his contract year (in which he presumably would be playing a bit harder), he would be reasonably attractive to a team that needs to get to the floor. This would free up both cap room and the #3 center slot for the forgive-and-forget reunion, and would give the Sabres a grownup with great hockey IQ who wins faceoffs and scores clutch goals.

 

If his knee is OK, I want him back.

[Lanny]

If they get Gragnani & Enroth in on their qualifying offers and Sekera signed to a reasonable number ($2.25M or less?) I think it's doable. Probably leaving approx $1M in space going into the season.

 

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

 

FORWARDS

Thomas Vanek ($7.142m) / Derek Roy ($4.000m) / Brad Boyes ($4.000m)

Tyler Ennis ($0.875m) / Ville Leino ($4.500m) / Drew Stafford ($4.000m)

Jochen Hecht ($3.525m) / Chris Drury ($1.000m) / Jason Pominville ($5.300m)

Nathan Gerbe ($1.433m) / Paul Gaustad ($2.300m) / Patrick Kaleta ($0.907m)

Cody McCormick ($1.200m)

 

DEFENSEMEN

Robyn Regehr ($4.020m) / Tyler Myers ($1.300m)

Jordan Leopold ($3.000m) / Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m)

Andrej Sekera ($2.250m) / Mike Weber ($0.950m)

Marc-Andre Gragnani ($0.550m)

 

GOALTENDERS

Ryan Miller ($6.250m) / Jhonas Enroth ($0.660m)

 

BUYOUTS: Tim Kennedy ($0.166m)

 

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,330,357; BONUSES: $425,000

CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $969,643

[SabresFan526]

Well, I'm assuming he'll play for pretty low $$ -- $1MM per year or thereabouts. I'm also assuming that they either trade or send down Kotalik and Morrisson. IIRC, that would give them just enough room to sign a $1MM player -- although I guess another move would be needed to give them enough cap flexibility for injury callups during the year. Not sure whether starting Pommer on LTIR would help in this regard.

 

I also wouldn't be surprised if they unloaded Hecht in addition to Big Al and Shaone (or perhaps in addition to Al and instead of Shaone, since I think on balance it's in their best interests to keep Shaone). Hecht is a pretty decent player, and although he's well overpaid, he only has 1 year left on his contract at $3.5MM. Since he's not that expensive in absolute dollars and since this is his contract year (in which he presumably would be playing a bit harder), he would be reasonably attractive to a team that needs to get to the floor. This would free up both cap room and the #3 center slot for the forgive-and-forget reunion, and would give the Sabres a grownup with great hockey IQ who wins faceoffs and scores clutch goals.

 

If his knee is OK, I want him back.

 

He was what the Sabres needed at that time, and he never should have left. Again, I won't rehash memories of July 1, 2007. Having said that, he's not the player he was prior to July 1, 2007, and I'm just not sure he's what this team needs right now. Do the Sabres need another center to add some depth in the position? Absolutely. But, is it #23 or #48? I'd rather have #48 right now than #23, and there's no way #48 is coming to Buffalo as I don't think he will get traded.

[Taro T]

...

 

I agree with all of this except the view that having TC or JP would've gotten the Sabres past Philly. I don't think either of them was much of a difference-maker in the series. Pominville's goal was a nice game-winner, but that was pretty much all he did in the series, and TC did even less (on offense, anyway). At the end of the day, the Sabres defense couldn't handle the Philly forecheck (and while I agree that the centers bore some culpability for that failure, more of it falls on the D -- and I think DR and LR think the same way and hence have taken steps to substantially upgrade the D), and the Sabres' top 6 couldn't generate enough scoring, especially 5-on-5 and especially after the 1st period.

 

To put some numbers on the theory: in games 1 through 6, the top 6 scored a grand total of ZERO goals in the 2nd and 3rd periods combined (NB this doesn't include Ennis' OT winner). The entire team scored a total of 4 goals in the 2nd and 3rd periods in the 1st 6 games -- 1 by Kaleta, 1 by McCormick and 2 by Gerbe. That's why I don't want to hear (not from you, but generally) about how Pominville isn't really overpaid or about how Vanek should be the captain. I need to see it in crunch time, and I haven't seen it yet.

 

To be clear, I thought the heart was there in game 6, but the loss in game 6 broke them and they came out for game 7 already defeated (except for Miller). IMHO, neither JP nor TC is the kind of blood-and-guts leader who would've refused to allow the team to come out like that.

 

 

...

I don't expect TC nor JP would have garnered the Sabres 1 extra goal in game 6. But I do believe that they could have been very helpful in reducing the Phlyers' regulation total by at least 1. That's all it would have taken to get through to the next round.

 

Heck, even if they don't help keep Butler from having the brainfart that resulted in the tying pp, maybe having 2 of the Sabres top 4 pk'ers could have saved Butlers' bacon. And they might have kept the puck out of the net for more than the next 2:03 after the penalty. If the Sabres survive that stretch, I like their chances.

 

And I guess I misunderstood your point about 'heart.' I think that you're pretty close in the description above, except had the Sabres scored the 1st goal in game 7 it wouldn't have been nearly the cakewalk it was. But w/ the Sabres having such difficulty defeating the Phlyers forecheck, once that 1st goal was scored at the end of the period, the proverbial straw had been added to the camel's load. The Sabres needed to find a way to crawl out of the 1st either up by 1 or 2 or at minimum tied. When they didn't, they were toast.

[nfreeman]

He was what the Sabres needed at that time, and he never should have left. Again, I won't rehash memories of July 1, 2007. Having said that, he's not the player he was prior to July 1, 2007, and I'm just not sure he's what this team needs right now. Do the Sabres need another center to add some depth in the position? Absolutely. But, is it #23 or #48? I'd rather have #48 right now than #23, and there's no way #48 is coming to Buffalo as I don't think he will get traded.

This is a very legitimate view, and I too would rather have #48. But #48 isn't available, and I'm kinda assuming that the Sabres aren't going to bring in another #1/#2 caliber center -- both because I don't expect one to come available on the trade market, and because the Sabres don't have the cap space. So that leaves me thinking about a #3 center who would come cheap and who would upgrade the roster by doing all the little things that contribute to winning -- kinda like Malhotra did for the Canucks last year (although he was admittedly more expensive at $2.5MM).

 

It doesn't have to be #23, and it probably won't be, but I like the idea IF his knee checks out.

[nfreeman]

I don't expect TC nor JP would have garnered the Sabres 1 extra goal in game 6. But I do believe that they could have been very helpful in reducing the Phlyers' regulation total by at least 1. That's all it would have taken to get through to the next round.

 

Heck, even if they don't help keep Butler from having the brainfart that resulted in the tying pp, maybe having 2 of the Sabres top 4 pk'ers could have saved Butlers' bacon. And they might have kept the puck out of the net for more than the next 2:03 after the penalty. If the Sabres survive that stretch, I like their chances.

 

And I guess I misunderstood your point about 'heart.' I think that you're pretty close in the description above, except had the Sabres scored the 1st goal in game 7 it wouldn't have been nearly the cakewalk it was. But w/ the Sabres having such difficulty defeating the Phlyers forecheck, once that 1st goal was scored at the end of the period, the proverbial straw had been added to the camel's load. The Sabres needed to find a way to crawl out of the 1st either up by 1 or 2 or at minimum tied. When they didn't, they were toast.

Your point about TC and JP helping to limit Philly's offense is fair. Certainly it would have been nice to have had the chance with them in the lineup (although Philly's fans would say the same about Pronger and Carter).

 

As for game 7, in order for the Sabres to have scored the first goal, they would have needed to get the puck in Philly's end of the rink and out of their own, which IIRC did not occur before Philly was up 2-0. (I am exaggerating, but only by a little. Philly completely besieged the Sabres in the 1st period of that game.)

[Taro T]

Your point about TC and JP helping to limit Philly's offense is fair. Certainly it would have been nice to have had the chance with them in the lineup (although Philly's fans would say the same about Pronger and Carter).

 

As for game 7, in order for the Sabres to have scored the first goal, they would have needed to get the puck in Philly's end of the rink and out of their own, which IIRC did not occur before Philly was up 2-0. (I am exaggerating, but only by a little. Philly completely besieged the Sabres in the 1st period of that game.)

Game 7 was definitely a disaster. But if the Sabres can get a bounce earlier in the 1st period, they could have had the lead. Not saying that they deserved the lead in any way shape or form, just that they could have had it. Heck, a bad pass from Briere back to the point might have gone in the way Boucher had been playing that series.

 

And if they survive the 1st knotted at 0-0, either they might not be God awful or maybe Miller wills them to another win or maybe both. I'd doubt it, the way they had played to that point, but Filly probably starts wondering what they have to do to beat Miller at that point (and option 2 at least becomes theoretically possible). And you know Boucher had to be ready to put a HUGE stain in his pants waiting for that 1st goal.

[nfreeman]

Game 7 was definitely a disaster. But if the Sabres can get a bounce earlier in the 1st period, they could have had the lead. Not saying that they deserved the lead in any way shape or form, just that they could have had it. Heck, a bad pass from Briere back to the point might have gone in the way Boucher had been playing that series.

 

And if they survive the 1st knotted at 0-0, either they might not be God awful or maybe Miller wills them to another win or maybe both. I'd doubt it, the way they had played to that point, but Filly probably starts wondering what they have to do to beat Miller at that point (and option 2 at least becomes theoretically possible). And you know Boucher had to be ready to put a HUGE stain in his pants waiting for that 1st goal.

It would have been sweet indeed. Perhaps the hockey gods felt that the Sabres owed a bit more penance after they butchered the last great team they put together and then lied about it. Hopefully the accounts have now been settled.

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

Peter Mueller - Colorado Avalanche

 

 

23 years of age

Position: Center

 

8th overall pick by the coyotes in 2006, Mueller missed the entire 10-11 season with concussion related issues, but is reportedly training at a high level.

 

The Avalanche have been discussed thoroughly in regards to Stastny, and there is no doubt that they are a team that is rebuilding. The acquisition of either Stastny, or Duchene seems highly unlikely to me at this time, but Mueller appears to have upside, and plays the middle.

 

Now, The avalanche are clearly in a rebuilding phase. I think mueller shows a lot of potential upside, but could also be had at a relatively low price. We could possibly get him with as little as a couple defensive prospects (we have plenty) and one of our Right wingers.

 

We'd clear cap, get a risky (but cheap) top 10 pick, who has shown he can play, and play center no less.

 

The Avs would get some scoring, and a couple young guys to replace Liles and Foote. We have a log jam at that level as it is.

 

 

I'm not citing a source for any rumor about this trade, it's just something i thought of. I'd like to know what you guys think of it. too little? maybe too much?

[LGR4GM]

Peter Mueller - Colorado Avalanche

 

 

23 years of age

Position: Center

 

8th overall pick by the coyotes in 2006, Mueller missed the entire 10-11 season with concussion related issues, but is reportedly training at a high level.

 

The Avalanche have been discussed thoroughly in regards to Stastny, and there is no doubt that they are a team that is rebuilding. The acquisition of either Stastny, or Duchene seems highly unlikely to me at this time, but Mueller appears to have upside, and plays the middle.

 

Now, The avalanche are clearly in a rebuilding phase. I think mueller shows a lot of potential upside, but could also be had at a relatively low price. We could possibly get him with as little as a couple defensive prospects (we have plenty) and one of our Right wingers.

 

We'd clear cap, get a risky (but cheap) top 10 pick, who has shown he can play, and play center no less.

 

The Avs would get some scoring, and a couple young guys to replace Liles and Foote. We have a log jam at that level as it is.

 

 

I'm not citing a source for any rumor about this trade, it's just something i thought of. I'd like to know what you guys think of it. too little? maybe too much?

for a guy who has never shown he can be more than a 3rd liner and who is coming off a concussion riddled non-season, id give a 2nd but thats about it. If they would take kotalik or idk morrison for him than woo. but any of our top def propsects for him... eh, ill pass.

[Derrico]

Peter Mueller - Colorado Avalanche

 

 

23 years of age

Position: Center

 

8th overall pick by the coyotes in 2006, Mueller missed the entire 10-11 season with concussion related issues, but is reportedly training at a high level.

The Avalanche have been discussed thoroughly in regards to Stastny, and there is no doubt that they are a team that is rebuilding. The acquisition of either Stastny, or Duchene seems highly unlikely to me at this time, but Mueller appears to have upside, and plays the middle.

 

Now, The avalanche are clearly in a rebuilding phase. I think mueller shows a lot of potential upside, but could also be had at a relatively low price. We could possibly get him with as little as a couple defensive prospects (we have plenty) and one of our Right wingers.

 

We'd clear cap, get a risky (but cheap) top 10 pick, who has shown he can play, and play center no less.

 

The Avs would get some scoring, and a couple young guys to replace Liles and Foote. We have a log jam at that level as it is.

 

 

I'm not citing a source for any rumor about this trade, it's just something i thought of. I'd like to know what you guys think of it. too little? maybe too much?

 

Sorry but I stopped reading after that line. We just let go of the Tin Man and his head problems, don't need another one.

[Weave]

Never even considered Mueller. He'd be a high risk, high reward kind of aqcuisition. He's only had one full season and scored 55pts. And he's young enough to still be developing. But he's missed alot of time, which means missed alot of development. And there is a definite Connolly-type risk here. But the kid has upside. I'm kind of intrigued by the idea. I wouldn't want to give up much though considering how bad his concussion was.

[Lanny]

I don't mind the idea, just not sure on the asking price. As was said above, I'd probably only be willing to offer a pick. But at that cost Colorado may be better off waiting to see how he turns out themselves.

[SabresFan526]

Never even considered Mueller. He'd be a high risk, high reward kind of aqcuisition. He's only had one full season and scored 55pts. And he's young enough to still be developing. But he's missed alot of time, which means missed alot of development. And there is a definite Connolly-type risk here. But the kid has upside. I'm kind of intrigued by the idea. I wouldn't want to give up much though considering how bad his concussion was.

Mueller is intriguing and has a ton of talent. But, this is an incredibly high risk player with his concussion issues and injury history. I'm not sure the risk is worth it unless the Sabres are trading Kotalik, Morrisonn, and a 5th round pick AKA - Salary Dump + a late round pick to take on the risk. That's the only way I think the Sabres should have any interest in Mueller. If he has a decent start, then maybe he's worth a mid-season trade, but unless it's a salary dump to take on Mueller, it's not worth it for me. Like I said, he's a really talented player, but the injury risk is too much and he's only had one 20 goal season to date (his rookie year). Understandably, he's played on some really bad teams, but it'd be a big risk to take him on in my mind.

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

Sorry but I stopped reading after that line. We just let go of the Tin Man and his head problems, don't need another one.

Understandable, i just saw it as a very high risk high reward scenario, and i can totally see the concern.

 

Never even considered Mueller. He'd be a high risk, high reward kind of aqcuisition. He's only had one full season and scored 55pts. And he's young enough to still be developing. But he's missed alot of time, which means missed alot of development. And there is a definite Connolly-type risk here. But the kid has upside. I'm kind of intrigued by the idea. I wouldn't want to give up much though considering how bad his concussion was.

 

 

I don't mind the idea, just not sure on the asking price. As was said above, I'd probably only be willing to offer a pick. But at that cost Colorado may be better off waiting to see how he turns out themselves.

That's pretty much one of the reasons why i posted the idea. Definitely a high risk high reward scenario.

 

Mueller is intriguing and has a ton of talent. But, this is an incredibly high risk player with his concussion issues and injury history. I'm not sure the risk is worth it unless the Sabres are trading Kotalik, Morrisonn, and a 5th round pick AKA - Salary Dump + a late round pick to take on the risk. That's the only way I think the Sabres should have any interest in Mueller. If he has a decent start, then maybe he's worth a mid-season trade, but unless it's a salary dump to take on Mueller, it's not worth it for me. Like I said, he's a really talented player, but the injury risk is too much and he's only had one 20 goal season to date (his rookie year). Understandably, he's played on some really bad teams, but it'd be a big risk to take him on in my mind.

 

Big risk indeed. I just suggest that the combination of two of three things we have plenty of could bring him here.

 

Colorado could use some good players to be centered by Sastny and Duchene. That's where one of the RW comes in (brad boyes?)

 

Colorado could use a second (they gave one to the caps for Varlamov along with a first) and we happen to have two.

 

They traded Liles to Toronto, and Adam Foote is retiring (correct me if I'm wrong) and we have plenty of defensive prospects that may never see the sabres roster simply due to how many we have.

 

Moving a RW dumps some salary, and clears a spot for Kassian, who i wouldn't mind seeing up in Buffalo next year.

 

Edit: In regards to trading morrisson, kotalik, we can bury kotalik, I'm all for him playing in Rochester.

 

if they want either of them, or adding either or both would sweeten the deal, THEN BY ALL MEANS DO IT. I see this option as a way to give some of our lower level D guys a better shot at playing in the big league, dumping salary, giving our young guys (Kassian Armia) a look at the NHL sooner than later, and giving us a young (albeit risky) high upside centerman.

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

Mueller is intriguing and has a ton of talent. But, this is an incredibly high risk player with his concussion issues and injury history. I'm not sure the risk is worth it unless the Sabres are trading Kotalik, Morrisonn, and a 5th round pick AKA - Salary Dump + a late round pick to take on the risk. That's the only way I think the Sabres should have any interest in Mueller. If he has a decent start, then maybe he's worth a mid-season trade, but unless it's a salary dump to take on Mueller, it's not worth it for me. Like I said, he's a really talented player, but the injury risk is too much and he's only had one 20 goal season to date (his rookie year). Understandably, he's played on some really bad teams, but it'd be a big risk to take him on in my mind.

If he has a decent start, doesn't that make his stock go up?

 

The point I'm trying to make here, is that while it is indeed a gamble, he could potentially be had for what we have plenty of RIGHT NOW.

 

If he needs to play in Rochester for a bit, thats fine. If he is never the same player again you walk away.

 

The level of risk in this deal would be equivalent on how much value you would place on an extra 2nd round pick, or one of our umpteen defensive prospects. this would be contrasted with the potential upside of a former 8th overall pick. And a young guy no less.

 

I wish i could see what scenario's Darcy was aware of. I'd like to think they have a tab on EVERYONE in our front office, but i've never been too sure exactly on how they go about keeping track of players and potential availability around the league.

[Bullwinkle]

 

You haven't "shown" anything. You've "stated" something, and certainly "repeated" it. But the case is not "closed."

 

And quoting stats to equate Roy with Stastny doesn't "show" anything other than the limited utility of stats in evaluating hockey players.

 

Here are some other stats:

 

Roy in the playoffs vs Boston last year: 6 games, zero goals, 2 assists.

 

This performance was two years ago, not last year when he stepped up his game and averaged a PPG. Aside from that there are no comparable stats for Stastny since he wasn't in the playoffs, so this statistic is meaningless.

 

Sabres with Roy in the lineup last year: 14-18-4

 

Sabres without Roy in the lineup last year: 32-15-6

 

More flawed statistics. The Sabre season could easily have been divided into the Pre-Pegula and Pegula parts. No one was motivated in the Pre-P stage - I don't think anyone would disagree with this - but Roy still was performing at 1 PPG. In the Pegula age, everyone stepped up their game, team-wide. There was a new energy of "can-do" on the squad that was very obvious to anyone who follows the team. Who knows what Roy might have done in that situation?

 

Thus your stats are meaningless.

 

There are guys who "put up numbers" for losing teams, and there are guys who are the go-to guys and leaders for winning teams. Roy hasn't done a single GD thing in his career to show that he is the latter, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that he is the former.

 

That MIGHT be true, but 1. Roy is now coming into his prime so we will see and 2. Stastny has not demonstrated leadership either. He is not a go-to guy. Look at last season if you need proof.

 

I maintained "case closed" because I'd like to see someone challenge it. You have, but you didn't prove that I was wrong in my assessment...at least not to me.

 

I still maintain that Stastny is not a nr. 1 center - certainly not at this time. Neither is Roy, but he may take that job next season if his progress continues.

[Bullwinkle]

Mueller as a nr. 1? Intriguing. I believe if memory serves, he played for Phx and was highly touted at that time.

 

Then the concussions hit.

 

However reports that I've read to date say that he's recovered and in full throttle. I would make a play for him. His salary is 2 mil and a RFA next season. Since Colorado is under the cap floor, we could dangle Kotalik plus MAGS plus a 2nd pick next year for him. It wouldn't be that big of a risk on our part - if Col would be interested. And they would only be interested if they had truly given up on him (which is doubtful).