Will there be anymore deals?

[Bullwinkle]

This is kind of where I stand also ... we have to be careful about trying to build a superteam in one offseason ... sometimes the right deal just isn't there. As long as they are keeping their eyes and ears open and have a plan in case something gets kicked loose ... and as long as they get Myers locked up long-term ... if they can get that done maybe by Jan.1 or something so that they know what they are dealing with money wise, who knows what happens down the stretch.

 

 

I also agree. Rome wasn't built in a day. TP said "within three years", not "immediately". Most of the major pieces are already in place. Now we need to let the kettle boil and the flavors mingle and gel into an effective team that knows how to play against any kind of opposition.

 

The other parts will be added in due time and soon I hope outstanding players on other teams will want to become a Buffalo Sabre.

[cmjoyce113]

Have you read any of the 8,000 posts in regards to sending players to the minors to accomplish this very feat?

 

I know we can send people to the AHL and quite frankly I am not worried about that. But my line of thinking is that they may want to pick up a piece more or 2 out there. We can over over by 10% in the off season but if we pick up a couple of good piece we might be at 15%. We stash some guys down and get to 100% but then we are screwed if there are injuries or a trade we want to make at the deadline. I was just stating that it's my belief we will make a trade or two in the coming weeks.

[cmjoyce113]

Not to necessarily defend the poster, but perhaps his point was that the Sabres will likely make a trade to a team looking to hit the salary cap floor that will create cap space for the Sabres without sending anyone to the AHL. For example, as much as everyone on here seems to think Shaone Morrisonn is pure garbage, there is likely a trade market for him, especially to a team that is below the salary cap floor that would be willing to take on his salary without having to waive him and send him to Rochester (which he likely would not report to anyway and be subject to not getting paid). I, for one, do not believe Shaone Morrisonn will start the season as part of the Sabres organ-eye-zation and will be traded because he does bring value to other teams and just had a sub-par injury riddled year but is a legitimate NHL player and not some scrub you send to the minors, but that's my thought, not necessarily the thought of the poster you were responding to.

 

 

Bingo! Thanks for communicating a point rather than just asking if I read more posts than are even in the thread. :doh:

[inkman]

I was just stating that it's my belief we will make a trade or two in the coming weeks.

Nothing wrong with opinions, I just get a little wrankled when posters start claiming they "know" things that are complete fabrications.

[TheChimp]

This is kind of where I stand also ... we have to be careful about trying to build a superteam in one offseason ... sometimes the right deal just isn't there. As long as they are keeping their eyes and ears open and have a plan in case something gets kicked loose ... and as long as they get Myers locked up long-term ... if they can get that done maybe by Jan.1 or something so that they know what they are dealing with money wise, who knows what happens down the stretch.

Hmmm, no, I disagree. You get all the pieces you want NOW, and give them a couple years to jell, like Philly did when they picked up Briere. (BTW I think they made a huge blunder getting rid of Richards and Carter, but maybe they were locker room cancer or something rubbed the GM the wrong way about them..but I digress). Not only that, but the timing is PERFECT to trade guys like Hecht, Boyes, Gaustad, and for different reasons Ennis, Gragniani, Gerbe, and Enroth.

 

So take your pick, create-your-own adventure.

 

Like this:

 

Gaustad/Ennis/Boyes/Morrisonn/pick (3rd?) ----> Stastny

 

Of course, they could wait until Sekera gets his award and then trade his butt instead of Morrisonn or Gragnani. No?

 

So many ideas....way too much time......:P

 

 

Oh and BTW, I think Gerbe has a better career ahead of him than Ennis.

[Bullwinkle]

Hmmm, no, I disagree. You get all the pieces you want NOW, and give them a couple years to jell, like Philly did when they picked up Briere. (BTW I think they made a huge blunder getting rid of Richards and Carter, but maybe they were locker room cancer or something rubbed the GM the wrong way about them..but I digress). Not only that, but the timing is PERFECT to trade guys like Hecht, Boyes, Gaustad, and for different reasons Ennis, Gragniani, Gerbe, and Enroth.

 

So take your pick, create-your-own adventure.

 

Like this:

 

Gaustad/Ennis/Boyes/Morrisonn/pick (3rd?) ----> Stastny

 

Of course, they could wait until Sekera gets his award and then trade his butt instead of Morrisonn or Gragnani. No?

 

So many ideas....way too much time......:P

 

Oh and BTW, I think Gerbe has a better career ahead of him than Ennis.

 

Well, I couldn't disagree with you more on so many points.

 

No, you don't put all the pieces in place at once - unless it's possible to do so. Right now, it's not. Therefore you don't pay a 1st line price and get a 2nd line center to put him in a 1st line position because you want him to be a 1st line player. Stastny is a good example. To me, he's not a first line center at this time, but you will pay a 1st line price for him and more. Gaustad/Ennis/Boyes/Morrisonn/pick (3rd?) ----> Stastny is ridiculous.

 

This is a moot point anyway, Stastny isn't going to be traded.

 

Regarding trades, Boyes will not be traded unless the offer is compelling. Four years ago he hit 43 goals and three years ago he hit 33. I am sure the Sabres want to see if he can regain that form with a full year under his belt and so I'm almost certain they would want to see if their hopes pan out. They just might, you never know.

 

Hecht and Gaustad they might trade. Ennis, Gragnani, Enroth, and Gerbe? I think not. Of that group, Gragnani and Enroth have the best chance to be traded IMO.

 

And finally Ennis is better than Gerbe. It will be interesting to follow their respective careers and see who comes out best.

[HopefulFuture]

Well, I couldn't disagree with you more on so many points.

 

No, you don't put all the pieces in place at once - unless it's possible to do so. Right now, it's not. Therefore you don't pay a 1st line price and get a 2nd line center to put him in a 1st line position because you want him to be a 1st line player. Stastny is a good example. To me, he's not a first line center at this time, but you will pay a 1st line price for him and more. Gaustad/Ennis/Boyes/Morrisonn/pick (3rd?) ----> Stastny is ridiculous.

 

This is a moot point anyway, Stastny isn't going to be traded.

 

Regarding trades, Boyes will not be traded unless the offer is compelling. Four years ago he hit 43 goals and three years ago he hit 33. I am sure the Sabres want to see if he can regain that form with a full year under his belt and so I'm almost certain they would want to see if their hopes pan out. They just might, you never know.

 

Hecht and Gaustad they might trade. Ennis, Gragnani, Enroth, and Gerbe? I think not. Of that group, Gragnani and Enroth have the best chance to be traded IMO.

 

And finally Ennis is better than Gerbe. It will be interesting to follow their respective careers and see who comes out best.

Agreed on Stastny not being traded.

 

Boyes will most likely be moved from this point to the deadline given the over abundance of wingers both on the roster and in the pipeline in the AHL. Just my opinion though.

 

And I come to that opinion based on 2 factors. First, the Myers and Ennis contracts for next year.

Ennis may be looking at 2 to 2.5 mil a season depending on this seasons performance. Myers is most certainly looking at 5 mil or better and I'll wager he gets locked up atleast until his UFA year.

 

Boyes clears up an additional 4 mil off the books. I don't believe we are going to see another monumental raise in the cap next year. I'd also wager that Hecht gets re-signed after next season, probably for 3 mil a season for 2 or 3 years as well.

 

Kotalik, Boyes, and Morrisonn create 9.075 mil in cap space. Both Ennis and Myers are going to eat a chunk of that.

I am also well aware that Roy's 4 mil a year is due up the following season. I am sure he is going to be looking to go over the 5.5 mil mark considering his production. I see Leino as Roy's replacement at center for line 2 (if he shows success this season) and Roy getting moved.

This would free up Adam to take the 3rd line center duties this year, which I fully expect him to do, then slot into the 2nd or possibily even the first line center position the following year depending on where his development is at and what type of success we see from him this season.

 

I am also willing to bet that when we saw Adam centering Ennis and Kassian that the Buffalo staff was looking for what type of chemistry they may be able to formulate together.

After this up coming season, I can fully see Leino centering Vanek and Stafford in 2 years.

 

Just my take on where the team may be positioning themselves for the next 3 to 5 years.

[papazoid]

FIRE DARCY !! (sarcasm)

 

make a move....sign somebody.....it's been like a week already....lol

[Derrico]

Agreed on Stastny not being traded.

 

Boyes will most likely be moved from this point to the deadline given the over abundance of wingers both on the roster and in the pipeline in the AHL. Just my opinion though.

 

And I come to that opinion based on 2 factors. First, the Myers and Ennis contracts for next year.

Ennis may be looking at 2 to 2.5 mil a season depending on this seasons performance. Myers is most certainly looking at 5 mil or better and I'll wager he gets locked up atleast until his UFA year.

 

Boyes clears up an additional 4 mil off the books. I don't believe we are going to see another monumental raise in the cap next year. I'd also wager that Hecht gets re-signed after next season, probably for 3 mil a season for 2 or 3 years as well.

 

Kotalik, Boyes, and Morrisonn create 9.075 mil in cap space. Both Ennis and Myers are going to eat a chunk of that.

I am also well aware that Roy's 4 mil a year is due up the following season. I am sure he is going to be looking to go over the 5.5 mil mark considering his production. I see Leino as Roy's replacement at center for line 2 (if he shows success this season) and Roy getting moved.

This would free up Adam to take the 3rd line center duties this year, which I fully expect him to do, then slot into the 2nd or possibily even the first line center position the following year depending on where his development is at and what type of success we see from him this season.

 

I am also willing to bet that when we saw Adam centering Ennis and Kassian that the Buffalo staff was looking for what type of chemistry they may be able to formulate together.

After this up coming season, I can fully see Leino centering Vanek and Stafford in 2 years.

 

Just my take on where the team may be positioning themselves for the next 3 to 5 years.

 

I'm doing everything I can to lock Roy up then throw more money at Jochen.

[SwampD]

...and shouldn't it be any[ ]more?...

[shrader]

I wouldn't mind a Niedermayer type signing to add a little more depth up the middle and bump Hecht to the wing. I guess the only problem is that it would bring back all of the status quo posts.

[Buzz Killington]

I wouldn't mind a Niedermayer type signing to add a little more depth up the middle and bump Hecht to the wing. I guess the only problem is that it would bring back all of the status quo posts.

 

 

Not necessarily.

 

Status Quo posts were based on cheap signings with lots of caproom.

 

300k in cap space isn't a lot to work with, and even if you make the assumption Kotalik/Morrisson are gone. and Enroth/Sekera/Grags are resigned your looking at 5 mil saved around 3.8 (Estimated) cap added.

 

That's only about 1.3k mil space....which truly isn't optimal for callups.

 

Any moves they make would have to have major salary going out to get anyone of note.

[carpandean]

I am also willing to bet that when we saw Adam centering Ennis and Kassian that the Buffalo staff was looking for what type of chemistry they may be able to formulate together.

Or they simply are the three most NHL-ready players in camp and happen to form a complete line.

[papazoid]

I wouldn't mind a Niedermayer type signing to add a little more depth up the middle and bump Hecht to the wing. I guess the only problem is that it would bring back all of the status quo posts.

 

 

actually i prefer to go the other way.....i'd like to see a so called kid line, giving Kassian and others much needed ice time to further their developement.

[carpandean]

I wouldn't mind a Niedermayer type signing to add a little more depth up the middle and bump Hecht to the wing. I guess the only problem is that it would bring back all of the status quo posts.

Looking at who's out there, that would mean one of:

 

Chris Drury - a little busted (knee), history with the team (good and bad), intangibles

Vaclav Prospal - can add to the offense and even move up with injuries, but I don't believe he's known for his defense

John Madden - old, but I've always liked his game, former Selke winner, plus his name is on the Cup ... three times

Kyle Wellwood - youngest of group (28), strong second half and playoffs last year after injury, small

 

All are very strong on faceoffs. Wellwood is the only one that isn't passed his "use by" date, but he and Gerbe would make for a rather ridiculous looking third line.

[X. Benedict]

actually i prefer to go the other way.....i'd like to see a so called kid line, giving Kassian and others much needed ice time to further their developement.

I believe an Ennis - Adams - Kassian line could score right away in the NHL - it is covering those boys on the backcheck that makes me nervous.

[spndnchz]

Or they simply are the three most NHL-ready players in camp and happen to form a complete line.

 

 

I believe an Ennis - Adams - Kassian line could score right away in the NHL - it is covering those boys on the backcheck that makes me nervous.

 

At the scrimmage on Sunday they had Ennis playing center for most of the third period.

[X. Benedict]

At the scrimmage on Sunday they had Ennis playing center for most of the third period.

 

Interesting move. It makes sense to drop Ennis in the defensive zone to let the big boys get a jump up the walls in transition.

[nfreeman]

Comparing players is a huge part of this board. Going over numbers I found that production wise that Pominville and Nathan Horton are very comparable. Each have one +30 goal season and Horton has one more 20+ goal season. Horton is the better goal scorer and Pominville is a better setup man. There +/- totals are relatively close with Horton just a little ahead. Where the big gap between the two are is money. Pominville has three years left at $5.3 mil and Horton two at $4 mil. Safe to say that will be drastically changed after both sign their next contracts.

The other big gap is playoff production. Horton was huge in the playoffs this year for Boston. Pommer, both last year and this year, was just another member of the Sabres' "top 6" who was essentially invisible, although he was slightly less terrible than some others.

 

When I talk of Ennis having potential, I'm talking about Perreault potential, not Kotalik/Afinogenov potential.

I'm in the camp that finds this to be wildly exaggerated. Perreault was, in his era, pretty big physically and one of the fastest players in the NHL. He was a scoring machine immediately and became one of the best 5 players in the NHL and stayed there for a decade. Ennis is a good player who could become very good, but I have a hard time seeing him ever reaching top 5 in the NHL (or for that matter top 20).

 

I disagree. Sekera going to arbitration is the only reason why I think we can't get Stastny now, because a Hecht + Ennis + Sekera + pick trade could really have been worth thinking about if you're Colorado, IMO. I guess if we put Gragniani in that trade instead of Sekera, it could still happen.

 

I mean, would Colorado really turn down this, for example:

 

Hecht + Ennis + Gragnani + Morrisonn + 1st for Stastny?

Hmmm. A 26-year-old #1 center who is at least their 2nd-best player for 2 veteran salary dumps, a low first-round pick, a 24-year-old defenseman with 13 total NHL games and a good young forward who weighs 150 lbs? Why not?

 

(Although Colorado did just make a truly idiotic trade with the Caps, so perhaps you're right...)

[nfreeman]

Aim lower. Perreault is a hall of famer. An elite level talent. Ennis has never been described as having hall of fame potential. When I'm thinking of what Ennis can become I'm thinking closer to Donald Audette than Gilbert Perreault.

I'm kinda hoping for Marty St. Louis.

 

Stastny is only 25 and has 321 points in 348 games. Last season he took 1,524 face-offs and won 53.2%. He also stepped up his physical game with 74 hits in 74 games. He is still a young player maturing into a really good center in this league. If Colorado is willing to even consider moving him the Sabres need to part of that discussion. Stastny is a player that has proven he can score in the league and still has an upside from that point.

 

If Stastny is truly available, the Sabres can't let opportunity slip by like they did with Nathan Horton.

Right on.

 

Had the Sabres managed to keep either (or both) Pominville and Connolly in the lineup, they very likely would have beaten the Phlyers as well.

 

I would agree that Boston was the weakest of the winners since the lockout. I wouldn't like their matchup against any of the other winners post lockout.

 

I don't see Colorado trading Statsny away because if they do, they are likely planning on being very bad this season. Teams that expect to be bad don't trade away their #1 pick in the next draft. (Though teams that SHOULD expect to be, such as TO, have been known to trade away that pick.)

 

Prior to the Varlamov trade, I could have seen scenarios where the Avs would trade him. Post-trade, I just can't see it happening unless they get the best player involved in the trade. THAT sort of trade wouldn't make sense from the Sabres point of view, IMHO.

 

It will be really interesting to see how the improved D, and my expectation that Leino will be able to carry the puck into the zone, will alter the Sabres' 'system.' They've wanted to play a puck possession game (modeled after Detroit) but haven't really had the personnel to effectively implement it (especially w/ nearly no healthy centers).

 

I expect it will take a while for the team to gel, but it could be fun to watch once it does.

 

I'm still hoping to see 1 more move for a center this offseason or early next season. I definitely expect to see a #3 brought in at the trade deadline if they haven't addressed that spot earlier in the year.

 

And I don't think it was lack of heart in games 6 & 7. It was simply lack of talent after TC and JP were down and out.

I agree with all of this except the view that having TC or JP would've gotten the Sabres past Philly. I don't think either of them was much of a difference-maker in the series. Pominville's goal was a nice game-winner, but that was pretty much all he did in the series, and TC did even less (on offense, anyway). At the end of the day, the Sabres defense couldn't handle the Philly forecheck (and while I agree that the centers bore some culpability for that failure, more of it falls on the D -- and I think DR and LR think the same way and hence have taken steps to substantially upgrade the D), and the Sabres' top 6 couldn't generate enough scoring, especially 5-on-5 and especially after the 1st period.

 

To put some numbers on the theory: in games 1 through 6, the top 6 scored a grand total of ZERO goals in the 2nd and 3rd periods combined (NB this doesn't include Ennis' OT winner). The entire team scored a total of 4 goals in the 2nd and 3rd periods in the 1st 6 games -- 1 by Kaleta, 1 by McCormick and 2 by Gerbe. That's why I don't want to hear (not from you, but generally) about how Pominville isn't really overpaid or about how Vanek should be the captain. I need to see it in crunch time, and I haven't seen it yet.

 

To be clear, I thought the heart was there in game 6, but the loss in game 6 broke them and they came out for game 7 already defeated (except for Miller). IMHO, neither JP nor TC is the kind of blood-and-guts leader who would've refused to allow the team to come out like that.

 

With all due respect to your scouting of the whole league for your fantasy league you mentioned, I think you are really undervaluing Stastny here ... I am not saying I watch him every night either, but I have seen enough to know he is a big-time player. Ennis had a nice 49-point season as a rookie 21-year old. Stastny had a 78-point season as a rookie 21-year old. He followed it up with 71 points in 66 games. He also has a 79-point season. His worst season, when he played just 45 games due to injury, he was on a 64-point pace. He's played on mostly horrible teams. If he is still a "work in progress" at 25 (and who isn't?), I am all for letting him "progress" here. I'd rather have him than Spezza.

 

That said, no way would I give up Ennis AND Kassian in a deal for him .... Ennis OR Kassian, fine, you have to give something to get something, but not both. But I don't think he is really available, and if he is, I would guess Adam or Roy would have to be included ...centers are just too rare.

Good post.

[X. Benedict]

When I talk of Ennis having potential, I'm talking about Perreault potential, not Kotalik/Afinogenov potential.

 

I really like Ennis' game, but I don't see a Perreault-like upside.

Brian Gionta......maybe that's more in the ballpark.

[spndnchz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xxp-8PBo3I

 

But this was fun.

[dEnnis the Menace]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xxp-8PBo3I

 

But this was fun.

 

That was my favorite goal of the year

 

second only to Gerbe's against Philly...

[nfreeman]

This about sums it up. Noone here really wants to see Ennis moved. But many realize that moving a player like Ennis (young, talented, low contract hit) is what it would likely take to get a #1 center in the door.

 

Is Stastny worth a player like Ennis +? My gut tells me yes. Stastny is putting up respectable points on a team that hasn't given him decent wingers the last two seasons. I would expect that his numbers would be better still if he were centering Vanek and Boyes/Stafford. And that is where the real value in moving Ennis for Stastny would be, he would replace Ennis' points and probably add a little more to it, PLUS you'de get even better numbers out of Vanek and Boyes/Stafford. Giving up Ennis' 50-70 pts may very well net you 100 pts between Stastny and the increase his wingers would see. And given how deep we are at wing I think it is a good move to make.

 

Having said all that. I think the moves for this offseason are done and this line of thought is just idle chatter.

Good post. I agree with all of this.

 

I think I've shown that right now Stastny = Roy. The stats bear that out.

 

Case closed.

You haven't "shown" anything. You've "stated" something, and certainly "repeated" it. But the case is not "closed."

 

And quoting stats to equate Roy with Stastny doesn't "show" anything other than the limited utility of stats in evaluating hockey players.

 

Here are some other stats:

 

Roy in the playoffs vs Boston last year: 6 games, zero goals, 2 assists.

Sabres with Roy in the lineup last year: 14-18-4

Sabres without Roy in the lineup last year: 32-15-6

 

There are guys who "put up numbers" for losing teams, and there are guys who are the go-to guys and leaders for winning teams. Roy hasn't done a single GD thing in his career to show that he is the latter, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that he is the former.

 

I wouldn't mind a Niedermayer type signing to add a little more depth up the middle and bump Hecht to the wing. I guess the only problem is that it would bring back all of the status quo posts.

He's still out there...maybe his knee will check out healthy in August...he could come back and make things right...I could see him winning faceoffs and scoring a big goal in the playoffs...maybe, maybe, it could happen.

[LGR4GM]

This is the type of move that would have helped the sabres this year. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=371576

hes not anything more than a 3rd line center but for a 2nd round pick which we have 2 of, i think it could not have hurt. Of course it also makes me wonder if the sabres are looking for something better than a possible 40pt a year guy (although he wins faceoffs according to the article)