ROC Sabres Posted June 28, 2011 Report Posted June 28, 2011 What are the expected success rates of NHL 1st round picks? The fact that you had to cherry pick those 4 selections as busts from the 14 drafts (15 first round picks) that he's been here for tells me he does pretty well. Especially since all of the guys mentioned were mid to late round picks. Novotny also played 189 NHL games. Outside the top 5 picks (and even those aren't guaranteed locks) the draft is a crap shoot. Many teams have had as much success in the first round has they have in the 5th or 6th. EDIT: And just to clarify, those 5th and 6th round guys, I'm not talking about the diamond in the rough all-stars that blossom out of nowhere. I'm saying those guys that you pick in rounds 5 and 6 because of that reason; because they can be serviceable players at their respected positions and talent level.
Sabre fan Posted June 28, 2011 Report Posted June 28, 2011 It's kinda strange but really the Sabres and Darcy have had better luck drafting in just about every round except the first. Lately it's been better, but our first round picks weren't great for a while there. Later picks saved us, to be sure. Overall, we are much better drafting then most though.
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted June 28, 2011 Report Posted June 28, 2011 Darcy's drafting has been excellent compared to just about EVERY other team in the NHL. If you don't believe this, check out other team's drafting in the last four or five years...not very good overall for just about any other team. The fact we have had rookie of the year in the AHL 3 years in a row, and Myers winning the NHL r-o-t-y confirms Darcy's excellent drafting. I do not think Golisano and Quinn would ever have approved Boyes at 4 Mil, nor Regher and Kotalik and their combined 7 mil salaries. Drafting 16 and 17 year olds is tough, and many teams have failed miserably. Darcy has proven in the past, when he is allowed to make whatever moves he deems important for the team, that he can put together a decent. contending team. And now with Pegula I truly think he is already on the right track. I look forward to Friday, when we will be active on the free agent market. I am not so sure about Connelly, although I guess he wouldn't be too bad as our 3rd center. I do want McCormick back though. This is an excellent point. If darcy ever leaves the GM position i really hope we retain him in the scouting department. Darcy and Devine have done a helluva job on that front on a very consistent basis.
PotentPowerPlay22 Posted June 28, 2011 Report Posted June 28, 2011 Actually his scouting department did. The same scouting department that once had Don Luce (now Dir of Player Development in Philadelphia) and Jim Benning (now the Assistant GM in Boston). The same scouting department that went direct-to-video to save money. The effect of ownership on a front office is pretty clear cut. It's also the same scouting department that's produced the last three AHL ROTYs. And the US Olympic goaltender (from the 6th round). In every draft you win some and lose some, and history has shown that we sure as ###### don't lose as bad as some. Are you saying Regier didn't make those picks? Well,in fact,he did. Are you arguing that the scouting department is efficient or deficient? You seem to be arguing that previous ownership was at fault for bad picks due to personnel changes and cost cutting and conversely the same previous ownership was the cause of the good picks. I guess if you take both sides of an argument you are going to be right a lot of the time. I'm just saying that Regier needs to prove his worth now that the excuses have run out. We'll see soon.
IKnowPhysics Posted June 28, 2011 Report Posted June 28, 2011 Are you saying Regier didn't make those picks? Well,in fact,he did. Are you arguing that the scouting department is efficient or deficient? You seem to be arguing that previous ownership was at fault for bad picks due to personnel changes and cost cutting and conversely the same previous ownership was the cause of the good picks. I'll boil it down for you. The scouting department is surprisingly efficient, despite the previous ownership. The previous ownership gutted the scouting department to save money, and we still drafted well. Imagine what we will be capable of with more scouting resources. No draft history in the NHL is remotely close to perfect, despite what delusional contrarians want to believe. The Buffalo Sabres do very well in this department, and they do very well considering their decreased resources. As for Regier making the picks, it's well-documented that the drafting process for many teams is often done by consensus among the scouts, scouting directors, player development personnel, coaches, and managers, with not subtle influence from the CSS rankings. Regier is ultimately responsible for the employment of all of them, but if you think he's in Kelowna judging a 16 year old Tyler Myers' ability to make a good first pass, think again. He listens to his amateur scouting department, the nine people he entrusted with the job, to make decisions about players.
X. Benedict Posted June 28, 2011 Report Posted June 28, 2011 I'll boil it down for you. The scouting department is surprisingly efficient, despite the previous ownership. The previous ownership gutted the scouting department to save money, and we still drafted well. Imagine what we will be capable of with more scouting resources. The in house on-ice combine is a great start. No draft history in the NHL is remotely close to perfect, despite what delusional contrarians want to believe. The Buffalo Sabres do very well in this department, and they do very well considering their decreased resources. They had about the same number of amateur scouts as everyone else. It's the pro-scouting where they never had much. good post.
North Buffalo Posted June 28, 2011 Report Posted June 28, 2011 Thats a bad thing? There were years where he was allowed to spend right up to the cap. If he was good with contracts and money, he could have space to make deals for players with higher contracts. Instead he would blow his budget on his own guys and then rummage through the bargain bins for FA's and throw away picks at the deadline on bad rentals. It has come out that Darcy's biggest problem wasn't with the budget, it was that he couldn't pull the trigger and close a deal without re-assurance from someone, Now with pegulia, he has put pressure on him to go out and make some big deals. As a confessed Regier critic, I am not sold on all the Kool-aid flowing. No Darcy isn't the worst guy in the world and I think he has good hockey sense just not the cajounas to follow through and close deals without backing as stated above. The Regher deal was a case in point. Robyn was hesistating until TP stepped up and made it happen. So the man is not a closer, as long as there is one with him that can do it Darcy might just be fine. I just don't think he is a guy that can .... make it happen... he needs an occasional kick in the backside or weigh in from the Powers that Be. The greatest criticism I have heard about Darcy over the years and agree with is that he doesn't have a backbone. That being said I applaud the idea of this last trade and his ability to work out a deal while allowing a closer like TP to come in and close the deal. Congrats on a good start to a new era in Sabre history.
Derrico Posted June 28, 2011 Report Posted June 28, 2011 As a confessed Regier critic, I am not sold on all the Kool-aid flowing. No Darcy isn't the worst guy in the world and I think he has good hockey sense just not the cajounas to follow through and close deals without backing as stated above. The Regher deal was a case in point. Robyn was hesistating until TP stepped up and made it happen. So the man is not a closer, as long as there is one with him that can do it Darcy might just be fine. I just don't think he is a guy that can .... make it happen... he needs an occasional kick in the backside or weigh in from the Powers that Be. The greatest criticism I have heard about Darcy over the years and agree with is that he doesn't have a backbone. That being said I applaud the idea of this last trade and his ability to work out a deal while allowing a closer like TP to come in and close the deal. Congrats on a good start to a new era in Sabre history. Start drinkin the Kool-aid, you may be correct in that Darcy has difficulty closing deals, but we have the ownership group that ensures they will close. Darcy's knock is not making deals happen but when he does it's usually pretty favourable for our side. Throw in his negotiating abilities with a guy that ensures things get done and we're sittin pretty.
SabresFan526 Posted June 28, 2011 Report Posted June 28, 2011 As a confessed Regier critic, I am not sold on all the Kool-aid flowing. No Darcy isn't the worst guy in the world and I think he has good hockey sense just not the cajounas to follow through and close deals without backing as stated above. The Regher deal was a case in point. Robyn was hesistating until TP stepped up and made it happen. So the man is not a closer, as long as there is one with him that can do it Darcy might just be fine. I just don't think he is a guy that can .... make it happen... he needs an occasional kick in the backside or weigh in from the Powers that Be. The greatest criticism I have heard about Darcy over the years and agree with is that he doesn't have a backbone. That being said I applaud the idea of this last trade and his ability to work out a deal while allowing a closer like TP to come in and close the deal. Congrats on a good start to a new era in Sabre history. I have heard this similar criticism of Darcy over the last 8 years. However, I'm not sure I fully agree with it. Where was the lack of closing ability to get Chris Drury for Rhett Warrener? Where was the lack of closing ability to get Doug Gilmour and J.P. Dumont for Michal Grosek? Where was the lack of closing ability to get Daniel Briere for Chris Gratton? Where was the lack of closing ability to get Mike Grier for Jakub Klepis? Darcy has always had the ability to make trades and make big trades and take a risk. In all of the above instances, who was giving him the "kick in the pants" to close these deals? Has Darcy made mistakes? Absolutely. Trading Sarich, Holzinger, and a bunch of other stuff for Chris Gratton was a mistake. But, he had the "backbone" and "cajounas" to do it, and it didn't work. But, it was a big risk and a gamble, and I'm not sure anyone was forcing him to do it. Bob Corkum of course was a mistake. And, there are a bunch, I'm sure. But, I do not buy that his inactivity with the roster over the last 5-6 years is necessarily due to him as many have criticized him for. The Regehr trade harkens back to classic Darcy during the Rigas era when he would simply fleece people in the trade market. Now, this was a clear salary cap dump by Calgary, so I don't give all the credit to Regier on this one, but this was the type of lopsided trade Darcy used to pull off all the time during the Rigas era before he got financial restrictions put on him when the whole Rigas era exploded.
Bullwinkle Posted June 28, 2011 Report Posted June 28, 2011 As a confessed Regier critic, I am not sold on all the Kool-aid flowing. No Darcy isn't the worst guy in the world and I think he has good hockey sense just not the cajounas to follow through and close deals without backing as stated above. The Regher deal was a case in point. Robyn was hesistating until TP stepped up and made it happen. So the man is not a closer, as long as there is one with him that can do it Darcy might just be fine. I just don't think he is a guy that can .... make it happen... he needs an occasional kick in the backside or weigh in from the Powers that Be. The greatest criticism I have heard about Darcy over the years and agree with is that he doesn't have a backbone. That being said I applaud the idea of this last trade and his ability to work out a deal while allowing a closer like TP to come in and close the deal. Congrats on a good start to a new era in Sabre history. I disagree with this. Certainly TP helped and was an asset to the process, but I think after the draft started and SJ traded for Burns, it was obvious to Regehr that the Buffalo offer was the only viable option. Staying in Calgary would be embarrassing since it was obvious they were shopping him. To say that TP made the trade happen I think is inaccurate.
dEnnis the Menace Posted June 28, 2011 Report Posted June 28, 2011 I disagree with this. Certainly TP helped and was an asset to the process, but I think after the draft started and SJ traded for Burns, it was obvious to Regehr that the Buffalo offer was the only viable option. Staying in Calgary would be embarrassing since it was obvious they were shopping him. To say that TP made the trade happen I think is inaccurate. I agree. There were a lot of cards in play on this one. First off, we were trying to pull someone that had a NMC...tough enough as it is. Second, he wasn't sure what he was going to do, and was holding out hope that he could go to his dream team. I think TP helped him realize that Buffalo was a good place, but i don't think he "made it happen" It's still more than LQ/TG ever did
LGR4GM Posted June 28, 2011 Report Posted June 28, 2011 I agree. There were a lot of cards in play on this one. First off, we were trying to pull someone that had a NMC...tough enough as it is. Second, he wasn't sure what he was going to do, and was holding out hope that he could go to his dream team. I think TP helped him realize that Buffalo was a good place, but i don't think he "made it happen" It's still more than LQ/TG ever did Darcy helped make this trade happen and he also appears to be the orchestrator of it. It does not really matter if Tpegs closed the deal or was simply a bystander who nudged Regehr a bit, the fact is the league saw what our owner is willing to do and also Regehr openly said he was impressed which is like a shock wave rolling through the NHL. It announced the sabres are not the team no one wants to come play for anymore because the owner wants to make money and the city is crippled. It clearly sent a message that the Buffalo Sabres are intent on putting together a team to win multiple Stanley cups and that all the talk since February is not posturing but is the actual procedure, belief, and philosophy of this team and it will get players thinking. How much it will help remains to be seen but at least hockey players, analysts and fans see the Buffalo Sabres now as a franchise very much invested in competing and being a family of players, not just a team. "winning is not a goal, it is a belief" meant more than the face value many us took it as, when that phrase was first uttered in February. I think it means: Winning is not a goal you set out to accomplish. It is a hardened fact instilled into a players brain by making them feel winning is possible and that the organization they play for will do all in its power to give the players the ability to be their best. It is hard for me to put into words what I mean but I understand that the "belief" part is more than it appears to be.
nucci Posted June 28, 2011 Report Posted June 28, 2011 Darcy helped make this trade happen and he also appears to be the orchestrator of it. It does not really matter if Tpegs closed the deal or was simply a bystander who nudged Regehr a bit, the fact is the league saw what our owner is willing to do and also Regehr openly said he was impressed which is like a shock wave rolling through the NHL. It announced the sabres are not the team no one wants to come play for anymore because the owner wants to make money and the city is crippled. It clearly sent a message that the Buffalo Sabres are intent on putting together a team to win multiple Stanley cups and that all the talk since February is not posturing but is the actual procedure, belief, and philosophy of this team and it will get players thinking. How much it will help remains to be seen but at least hockey players, analysts and fans see the Buffalo Sabres now as a franchise very much invested in competing and being a family of players, not just a team. "winning is not a goal, it is a belief" meant more than the face value many us took it as, when that phrase was first uttered in February. I think it means: Winning is not a goal you set out to accomplish. It is a hardened fact instilled into a players brain by making them feel winning is possible and that the organization they play for will do all in its power to give the players the ability to be their best. It is hard for me to put into words what I mean but I understand that the "belief" part is more than it appears to be. He also said he decided to accept the trade before Pegula showed up in Calgary.
Robviously Posted June 28, 2011 Report Posted June 28, 2011 Has Darcy made mistakes? Absolutely. Trading Sarich, Holzinger, and a bunch of other stuff for Chris Gratton was a mistake. But, he had the "backbone" and "cajounas" to do it, and it didn't work. But, it was a big risk and a gamble, and I'm not sure anyone was forcing him to do it. Bob Corkum of course was a mistake. And, there are a bunch, I'm sure. The Gratton trade wasn't really a mistake. We ended up one game away from the Eastern Conference Finals in 2001 (technically one minute away from winning that second round series in Game 6). And what did we give up? I think it was Holzinger, Sarich, and a 3rd round pick -- meaning basically we gave up Sarich. I don't consider that trade a bad move even if we ended up trading Gratton away not long after. EDIT: And Gratton was great in the 2001 playoffs. 14 points in 13 games.
Swedesessed Posted June 28, 2011 Report Posted June 28, 2011 I've never been overly critical or overly supportive of Darcy. You just never know what goes on behind the scenes. I'd like to take a look at the entire picture after it's complete. Granted it may take another decade or two but to judge ones career on one year or one ownership regime is shortsighted. I haven't loved all the decisions but there is always more to the puzzle than what we know or hear about. That being said, I'm enjoying where things are headed. Perfectly said. Regier has made some really great trades here as GM of the Sabres and remember too: Even guys like Lou Lammorillo in New Jersey who is regarded as a great GM has made many gaffes during his tenure there. The longer a coach or GM stays with an organization, the more widespread the praise and criticisms will be. Like in football, Bill Parcells takes over downtrodden team, gets them back to the top and then leaves right away. If Bill rode things out with 1 team for a long period of time, your image of Parcells would change a little.
deluca67 Posted June 29, 2011 Report Posted June 29, 2011 Perfectly said. Regier has made some really great trades here as GM of the Sabres and remember too: Even guys like Lou Lammorillo in New Jersey who is regarded as a great GM has made many gaffes during his tenure there. The longer a coach or GM stays with an organization, the more widespread the praise and criticisms will be. Like in football, Bill Parcells takes over downtrodden team, gets them back to the top and then leaves right away. If Bill rode things out with 1 team for a long period of time, your image of Parcells would change a little. "Great Trades?" :lol: One really good trade and the fellas have amassed in their circle with hands fully on johnsons. As much as I like the Regehr trade it doesn't wash away the recent history of poor decisions, contracts and acquisitions. Some which have actually happened since Pegula took the reigns. As it was said before there are no more excuses for Regier. If he can't get the job done, winning a Stanley Cup for those that forgot that is the goal, with Pegula willing to spend big to cover his mistakes it will be proof of the caliber of GM Regier really is.
Sterling Archer Posted June 29, 2011 Report Posted June 29, 2011 "Great Trades?" :lol: One really good trade and the fellas have amassed in their circle with hands fully on johnsons. As much as I like the Regehr trade it doesn't wash away the recent history of poor decisions, contracts and acquisitions. Some which have actually happened since Pegula took the reigns. As it was said before there are no more excuses for Regier. If he can't get the job done, winning a Stanley Cup for those that forgot that is the goal, with Pegula willing to spend big to cover his mistakes it will be proof of the caliber of GM Regier really is. The only things that have happened since Pegs took over was the Boyes trade, the new carpet, and the Regehr trade. Are you that pissed off about the carpet?
deluca67 Posted June 29, 2011 Report Posted June 29, 2011 The only things that have happened since Pegs took over was the Boyes trade, the new carpet, and the Regehr trade. Are you that pissed off about the carpet? You are forgetting Stafford.
apuszczalowski Posted June 29, 2011 Report Posted June 29, 2011 "Great Trades?" :lol: One really good trade and the fellas have amassed in their circle with hands fully on johnsons. As much as I like the Regehr trade it doesn't wash away the recent history of poor decisions, contracts and acquisitions. Some which have actually happened since Pegula took the reigns. As it was said before there are no more excuses for Regier. If he can't get the job done, winning a Stanley Cup for those that forgot that is the goal, with Pegula willing to spend big to cover his mistakes it will be proof of the caliber of GM Regier really is. That is false, Darcy has NEVER made a bad decision, those were made by Quinn and Golisano, he was hadncuffed and shackled, remember?Who cares if he can't close a deal on his own, he has uncle Terry to do that for him now. Re-sign Connolly? Go ahead, the TP magic has made us forget TC's previous years here and now all we can think of is how great he would be as a 3rd line C! With most of those trades that keep getting brought up, at the time, they didn't look like steals. Danny Briere was someone Phoenix was giving up on. none of the other trades really required much backbone, they were Darcy giving up something mid level for a guy with potential that another team was giving up on.Its not like he made a deal to trade Gerbe & Ennis and turned them into Malkin and Crosby
Sterling Archer Posted June 29, 2011 Report Posted June 29, 2011 You are forgetting Stafford. You were expecting him not to get the exact same contract as Horton. Stafford has been compared to Horton so many times and he started to show numbers like Horton. What's so wrong with a new carpet?
apuszczalowski Posted June 29, 2011 Report Posted June 29, 2011 You were expecting him not to get the exact same contract as Horton. Stafford has been compared to Horton so many times and he started to show numbers like Horton. What's so wrong with a new carpet? It doesn't match the drapes?
Sterling Archer Posted June 29, 2011 Report Posted June 29, 2011 It doesn't match the drapes? Brian Campbell?
beerme1 Posted June 29, 2011 Report Posted June 29, 2011 You are forgetting Stafford. After Friday you may be thinking what a deal he made.
deluca67 Posted June 29, 2011 Report Posted June 29, 2011 That is false, Darcy has NEVER made a bad decision, those were made by Quinn and Golisano, he was hadncuffed and shackled, remember?Who cares if he can't close a deal on his own, he has uncle Terry to do that for him now. Re-sign Connolly? Go ahead, the TP magic has made us forget TC's previous years here and now all we can think of is how great he would be as a 3rd line C! With most of those trades that keep getting brought up, at the time, they didn't look like steals. Danny Briere was someone Phoenix was giving up on. none of the other trades really required much backbone, they were Darcy giving up something mid level for a guy with potential that another team was giving up on.Its not like he made a deal to trade Gerbe & Ennis and turned them into Malkin and Crosby It is funny to see the excitement in regards to Regier based n the idea that we now have an owner willing to throw money around to cover up Regier's mistakes. Pay too much for Stafford? So what, if he returns to being Drew Stafford they will just buyout his contract. For years the Rangers were mocked on this board for doing exactly what fans are hoping Pegula will do. Go big in free-agency and cover the mistakes up with cash.
deluca67 Posted June 29, 2011 Report Posted June 29, 2011 After Friday you may be thinking what a deal he made. Only if the Sabres move him in a trade.
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