Marvelo Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 I'm a true-blue Sabres fan, and this is my observation... They both choke in the clutch. They have different styles, Luongo sticks his foot in his mouth more and Miller's is more zenlike... They're both over-rated and have built their reputation on games that don't matter that much. You gotta be at your best when everything is on the line and that's what separates the men from the boys.
Wyldnwoody44 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 Well, I knew this thread would appear...... Luongo def choked, let in some bad goals for sure. I will try not to compare him to miller. Luongo had a better supporting cast. Any goalie that gets yanked 2-3 times in the Finals is def a choke artist
PromoTheRobot Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 And you could say the same thing about Timmy Thomas until this season. Choke, choke, choke, win cup. Good thing Boston isn't run by a bunch of web posting experts who can spot a choke artist in 5 minutes. PTR
Weave Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 Well, I knew this thread would appear...... LOL You beat me to it. This thread was inevitable.
SabresFan526 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 FWIW, Luongo beat Miller in the Olympics, so I guess he choked less than Miller? Give credit where it's due. Tim Thomas was absolutely outstanding in this series. He's been outstanding all year and deserves to win the Vezina. He was superb and Chara and Seidenberg completely shutdown the Sedins and Burrows. Injuries are no excuse, but I think the losses of Samuelsson, Hamhuis, Raymond and Rome suspension were more important to Vancouver than the losses of Savard and Horton. Either way, Vancouver had enough talent to win without them, and they didn't get the job done. So, give credit to Boston.
X. Benedict Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 LOL You beat me to it. This thread was inevitable. :lol: Now if we could only get Roy and Pominville = Sedin Twins.
carpandean Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 :lol: Now if we could only get Roy and Pominville = Sedin Twins. I don't know. I, for one, have been happy with Roy diving less. :thumbsup:
dEnnis the Menace Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 I like turtles. :thumbsup: this thread? :doh:
james duncan Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 I'm a true-blue Sabres fan, and this is my observation... They both choke in the clutch. They have different styles, Luongo sticks his foot in his mouth more and Miller's is more zenlike... They're both over-rated and have built their reputation on games that don't matter that much. You gotta be at your best when everything is on the line and that's what separates the men from the boys. I've gotta ask, which games don't matter much?
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 FWIW, Luongo beat Miller in the Olympics, so I guess he choked less than Miller? Give credit where it's due. Tim Thomas was absolutely outstanding in this series. He's been outstanding all year and deserves to win the Vezina. He was superb and Chara and Seidenberg completely shutdown the Sedins and Burrows. Injuries are no excuse, but I think the losses of Samuelsson, Hamhuis, Raymond and Rome suspension were more important to Vancouver than the losses of Savard and Horton. Either way, Vancouver had enough talent to win without them, and they didn't get the job done. So, give credit to Boston. I'm sorry, but did you see canada's national roster? They could've put in the goalie from the brandon wheat kings and still won.
Weave Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 Interesting articles about statistical prospect and team analysis here; Hockey Prospectus Behind The Net Hockey Together, Fenwick/Corsi and Luck account for around 3/4 of team winning percentage. What's the remainder? Goaltending talent - which Tom Awad estimates at about 5% - and special teams, along with a very small sliver that's due to shooting talent and the oft-mentioned "shot quality." So I don't think there's a false dichotomy here - there are five factors in this model, all of which are given credence in proportion to their predictive power I didn't read these too closely because I was concentrating on the game too but the premise is that puck possession is the strongest correlator to suucessful performance (whether team winning percentage or individual player success). The above quote indicates that their models suggest that goaltending talent is responsible for only a small percentage of winning. Puck possession is the bulk of it. Except for game 7, the games that Boston won they definitely had an edge in puck possession. Last night was probably closer to 50/50 split until the game got late and Vancouver changed tactics out of desperation. I though ttheir puck possession time got worse as the clock wound down and they changed tactics. I don't know if I buy goaltending being only 5% of winning, but I definitely agree with the authors here that puck possession is a much bigger factor in winning than goalie performance. Given, of course, that your goaltending is at least adequate or average. And I think this year's finals are a pretty good example of the premise.
buffalohsix Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 compare as you wish, in Miller's case it's what's in front of him
SwampD Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 Eight goals in seven games. That is not going to win you a Stanley Cup. ...Wow! That's what someone would have said about Miller. It really is true. Miller = Luongo.
CallawaySabres Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 I too knew this was coming and as a matter of fact, it crossed my mind in game 6. Then, I compared rosters and the thought was over. I also can't remember Miller ever collapsing back to back games in the playoffs let alone 4 out of 7...... Luongo was HORRIBLE and as far as the Olympic comparison, Miller outplayed Luongo by a freakin' mile.
dEnnis the Menace Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 I too knew this was coming and as a matter of fact, it crossed my mind in game 6. Then, I compared rosters and the thought was over. I also can't remember Miller ever collapsing back to back games in the playoffs let alone 4 out of 7...... Luongo was HORRIBLE and as far as the Olympic comparison, Miller outplayed Luongo by a freakin' mile. ^^ THIS
shrader Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 I too knew this was coming and as a matter of fact, it crossed my mind in game 6. Then, I compared rosters and the thought was over. I also can't remember Miller ever collapsing back to back games in the playoffs let alone 4 out of 7...... Luongo was HORRIBLE and as far as the Olympic comparison, Miller outplayed Luongo by a freakin' mile. Has Miller even been pulled at any point other than game 7 this year where the entire team quit?
donteatyellowsnow Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 Has Miller even been pulled at any point other than game 7 this year where the entire team quit? You can't use that as a barometer. It is the coach's discretion whether to pull the goalie or not. Just because a goalie does not get pulled does not mean he is playing well.
nobody Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 Has Miller even been pulled at any point other than game 7 this year where the entire team quit? Well - that is fully influenced by the coach. Lindy hates pulling his #1 goalie.
nobody Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 Luongo was HORRIBLE and as far as the Olympic comparison, Miller outplayed Luongo by a freakin' mile. Which is why Miller was the tournament MVP.
shrader Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 You can't use that as a barometer. It is the coach's discretion whether to pull the goalie or not. Just because a goalie does not get pulled does not mean he is playing well. Of course, he hasn't been pulled because he's never come anywhere close to a game 3-4-6 Luongo-like performance.
james duncan Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 Well - that is fully influenced by the coach. Lindy hates pulling his #1 goalie. Actually, Lindy hates having any goalie other than his #1 on the roster...
SabresFan526 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 I'm sorry, but did you see canada's national roster? They could've put in the goalie from the brandon wheat kings and still won. That was a sarcastic comment that did not clearly articulate itself in this forum. I don't actually believe Miller is a choker.
Taro T Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 I like turtles. Chocolate or crunchy? :unsure:
tom webster Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 I've always thought that choking when you are clearly the favorite and the berthed team, yet come up short and completely play out of character. I'm sure some will argue that was the case in 06/07 although I don't. When else can someone point out that the Sanres disappointed because of Miller's play?
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