Weave Posted June 11, 2011 Report Posted June 11, 2011 The basis of the trade rumor is for Philly to open cap room to sign Bryzgalov. Pomville for Carter adds money for Philly. Ennis and 16 overall was mentioned because it is comparable, however probably less than, what Philly is rumored to be getting in the trade - 8th overall and Jakub Voracek. Voracek and Ennis are pretty equal IMO. Of course, Voracek is bigger. But I think they bring a similar upside. And Ennis is already real close to where Voracek is at stat-wise and he's only had one full season. Pretty big difference in that 1st round pick in terms of what might be available though.
Eleven Posted June 11, 2011 Report Posted June 11, 2011 All good points regarding why Carter > Pomminstein. But the biggest point is missing. Carter is a winner. The only thing Pomminstein has ever won is a Selke trophy in the Q for gentlemanly play. Carter was a key part of gold medal teams and a Flyer team that came out of nowhere to play for the Stanley Cup. And he produces in those situations, something you can't really say about Pomminstein. Are you kidding? Carter has won as much as Pominville has at the NHL level. One has a Wales Trophy, one has a Presidents' Trophy, and neither has a Cup. Carter's youth trophies don't mean a thing. Not saying I would kill a deal, but let's base things on facts. "Carter is a winner," riiiight.
SwampD Posted June 11, 2011 Report Posted June 11, 2011 Are you kidding? Carter has won as much as Pominville has at the NHL level. One has a Wales Trophy, one has a Presidents' Trophy, and neither has a Cup. Carter's youth trophies don't mean a thing. Not saying I would kill a deal, but let's base things on facts. "Carter is a winner," riiiight. I talked to a Flyers fan last night and he couldn't want Carter off the team quicker. Of course, most of his complaints were the same ones that we hear here about our players; soft, no heart, takes shifts off, not physical, doesn't back check, blah, blah, blah,..
Weave Posted June 11, 2011 Report Posted June 11, 2011 Are you kidding? Carter has won as much as Pominville has at the NHL level. One has a Wales Trophy, one has a Presidents' Trophy, and neither has a Cup. Carter's youth trophies don't mean a thing. Not saying I would kill a deal, but let's base things on facts. "Carter is a winner," riiiight. Why do his ameteur trophies not mean anything? Whenever Drury is brought up the first thing mentioned to point him out as a winner is ZOMGHISYOUTHSUCCESS!! Carter has done way more to show that he produces in big situations than Pommer has. Call it relative if you have to, Carter has done more to show he rises to the occassion than Pomminstein. And that is the gist of what I was getting at.
Weave Posted June 11, 2011 Report Posted June 11, 2011 I talked to a Flyers fan last night and he couldn't want Carter off the team quicker. Of course, most of his complaints were the same ones that we hear here about our players; soft, no heart, takes shifts off, not physical, doesn't back check, blah, blah, blah,.. I'm curious if he felt the same way about Briere before last season's playoff run. IIRC the city was ready to run Briere out of town until the '10 playoffs started.
Eleven Posted June 11, 2011 Report Posted June 11, 2011 I talked to a Flyers fan last night and he couldn't want Carter off the team quicker. Of course, most of his complaints were the same ones that we hear here about our players; soft, no heart, takes shifts off, not physical, doesn't back check, blah, blah, blah,.. which is why... Why do his ameteur trophies not mean anything? Whenever Drury is brought up the first thing mentioned to point him out as a winner is ZOMGHISYOUTHSUCCESS!! Carter has done way more to show that he produces in big situations than Pommer has. Call it relative if you have to, Carter has done more to show he rises to the occassion than Pomminstein. And that is the gist of what I was getting at. Carter is a winner!
deluca67 Posted June 11, 2011 Report Posted June 11, 2011 which is why... Carter is a winner! Just think of the heights Carter can reach under the tutelage of a coach like Lindy Ruff.
SwampD Posted June 11, 2011 Report Posted June 11, 2011 Why do his ameteur trophies not mean anything? Whenever Drury is brought up the first thing mentioned to point him out as a winner is ZOMGHISYOUTHSUCCESS!! Carter has done way more to show that he produces in big situations than Pommer has. Call it relative if you have to, Carter has done more to show he rises to the occassion than Pomminstein. And that is the gist of what I was getting at. Not saying you are wrong, but, what, exactly?
Eleven Posted June 11, 2011 Report Posted June 11, 2011 Just think of the heights Carter can reach under the tutelage of a coach like Lindy Ruff. He'd probably put up career-best numbers like Briere and Drury did.
Eleven Posted June 11, 2011 Report Posted June 11, 2011 Not saying you are wrong, but, what, exactly? He scored a key OT goal against Ottawa in the playoffs one year. Oh wait, he didn't. Carter would be a nice addition. He's not better than the Sabres' current best players, though.
Weave Posted June 11, 2011 Report Posted June 11, 2011 Not saying you are wrong, but, what, exactly? OK, I'm backtracking a little after looking at his career stats more closely. Admittedly, he's done more to show that in juniors than the NHL, 16 goals and 23 pts over three WJC's and two silver medals in 21 games. And he's won a Calder Cup too. Maybe I'll leave it at, he's got more big games that he's been in on the winning end of than the current group of Sabres have. :ph34r:
wonderbread Posted June 11, 2011 Report Posted June 11, 2011 I'd like to counter point his "No heart" with his more than skilled shooting, especially given the wingers we have, who appear more content to be garbage goal collecters for the most part. Carter would fit very nicely between Stafford and Ennis in my opinion. The guy is a sniper and his stats bare this out. He's 26 years old with a roughly 5.273 million a year cap hit for 10 years. If I'm Buffalo, I've just found the perfect line 2 center that locked up at a reasonable price right through his prime. I'm all over that. Not to mention he Carter has won gold medals with Team Canada at the under-18 and under-20 levels. During his under-20 career, he tied as Canada's all-time leading scorer at the World Juniors and was named to back-to-back Tournament All-Star Teams. He has also represented Canada at the 2006 IIHF World Championship. Theer is a reason the Philadelphia Flyers selected him 11th overall in the 2003 NHL Entry Draft. People fool themselves into believing this kid would not be an absolute solid pickup for the Sabres in a trade, if one can be done. He is exactly what Pegula and Company are looking for. Immediately contributes to better the club while going for a cup run within 3 seasons while at the same time fitting the other Pegula and Company goal which was to bring talent in that is longterm. 10 years at a reasonable contract........ Yea, I'm sniffing out a deal for this guy all day long. I like your post. It makes sense. Therefore it will never happen.
dudacek Posted June 11, 2011 Report Posted June 11, 2011 He scored a key OT goal against Ottawa in the playoffs one year. Oh wait, he didn't. Carter would be a nice addition. He's not better than the Sabres' current best players, though. This is it exactly. He's a front-line player similar in stature to Roy and Vanek (or Spezza, or Pavelski) who would help any team. I'd take him, but I wouldn't trade the farm for him. And I'd rather set my sights a little higher this year.
wonderbread Posted June 11, 2011 Report Posted June 11, 2011 This is it exactly. He's a front-line player similar in stature to Roy and Vanek (or Spezza, or Pavelski) who would help any team. I'd take him, but I wouldn't trade the farm for him. And I'd rather set my sights a little higher this year. I would love to have a 26 yr old perennial 30 goal scoring center on this team. By all means Darcy should be offering the farm. And I am talking about Draft picks, young talent, vet players, HJ's, etc.
deluca67 Posted June 11, 2011 Report Posted June 11, 2011 He'd probably put up career-best numbers like Briere and Drury did. If he can get the NHL to change the rules to fit his game. :doh: Hate to tell you, many players and career years after the lockout.
Eleven Posted June 12, 2011 Report Posted June 12, 2011 If he can get the NHL to change the rules to fit his game. :doh: Hate to tell you, many players and career years after the lockout. Credit where it's due, DeLuca; Ruff saw the changes and played accordingly. Awesome. And this is a Jeff Carter thread.
HopefulFuture Posted June 12, 2011 Report Posted June 12, 2011 I like your post. It makes sense. Therefore it will never happen. Sad isn't though. If, and I know it's a big if (depending on what the plan is from Philly's management), but if this guy is available, I am all over it. I wouldn't give up Ennis or Stafford. In return, they wouldn't be looking to add any significant salary, since it would be a cap clearing move for Bryz. That being said, the scenario I would invision is a strong defensive player, young (Most likely Sekera), the 16th overall pick and an inexpensive roster player (Gerbe comes to mind, but not the first). My guess would be a package deal between the 2 teams, maybe including Adam or Kassian, which I am more than ok with. I would think Philly would be more interested in Adam, since they are loosing a center and need a cheap line 3 replacement with plenty of upside. Just my thoughts on it, who really knows at the end of the day. But I'd be more than happy with Jeff Carter centering Ennis and Stafford next season.
dudacek Posted June 12, 2011 Report Posted June 12, 2011 Adam, Sekera and a first is a reasonable offer in my book. Better than Voracek and a better first? You'd have to ask Paul Holmgren.
HopefulFuture Posted June 12, 2011 Report Posted June 12, 2011 Adam, Sekera and a first is a reasonable offer in my book. Better than Voracek and a better first? You'd have to ask Paul Holmgren. I wouldn't pretend to ###### what exactly Philly is looking for, and my suggestions are that of a fan, not of someeone involved in the inner workings of the NHL management level. With that said, if a deal can be made that makes Philly happy on a cap clearing situation, I'm all ears.
drnkirishone Posted June 12, 2011 Report Posted June 12, 2011 I am so sick of hearing Corey Perry's name and his cap hit. you don't pay 50 goal scorers 5 million. if you have a 50 goal scorer being paid that then either they are a complete liabilty in other parts of the game or they are outplaying their contract. Perry had broken the 30 goal mark once before this season and never been a point per game player before this season. If perry was going into contract negotiations atm I guarnetee he would be getting a helluva lot more then 5.whatever million a season. I am betting that if perry gets 40 goals and comes close to 80 points next season that he will be getting a contract extension in the 7-8 million range the following.
HopefulFuture Posted June 12, 2011 Report Posted June 12, 2011 I am so sick of hearing Corey Perry's name and his cap hit. you don't pay 50 goal scorers 5 million. if you have a 50 goal scorer being paid that then either they are a complete liabilty in other parts of the game or they are outplaying their contract. Perry had broken the 30 goal mark once before this season and never been a point per game player before this season. If perry was going into contract negotiations atm I guarnetee he would be getting a helluva lot more then 5.whatever million a season. I am betting that if perry gets 40 goals and comes close to 80 points next season that he will be getting a contract extension in the 7-8 million range the following. I fail to understand why you would be sick of hearing Corey Perry's name and his cap hit. It's more than obvious Anaheim is paying a 50 goal scorer 5 millio, so I guess it can be done. I don't see any of the liability in Perry's game you speak of. Perry isn't going into contract negotiations, so that point is moot. He will see around 6.6 to 7 million a season with continued numbers like the ones he is putting up. None of what you posted changes the fact that Jason Pominville is not worth a 5.3 million dollar cap hit.
tom webster Posted June 12, 2011 Report Posted June 12, 2011 I fail to understand why you would be sick of hearing Corey Perry's name and his cap hit. It's more than obvious Anaheim is paying a 50 goal scorer 5 millio, so I guess it can be done. I don't see any of the liability in Perry's game you speak of. Perry isn't going into contract negotiations, so that point is moot. He will see around 6.6 to 7 million a season with continued numbers like the ones he is putting up. None of what you posted changes the fact that Jason Pominville is not worth a 5.3 million dollar cap hit. Pominville got his contract at the perfect time, before the market corrected itself and put about a $4.3 million price tag on the game he brings. In the year that have followed teams realized that most of the teams that would spend where at or near the cap thus turning it into a buyers market and leaving truly elite numbers, $5 and above for the few players that could be deemed differnce makers. That being said, Ryan, Perry and Getzlaff all benefit from playing with each other and everytime this year Anaheim tried to break them up, their production suffered and the team's did as well which is why they always ended up back together.
drnkirishone Posted June 12, 2011 Report Posted June 12, 2011 right so by the same point Stamakos was worth only the 900k or whatever from his rookie contract. So a 50 goal scorer should be getting only 900k since thats al1 he got paid. Try not ignoring the 2nd option I listed. That the player is outplaying thier contract. Which Perry did this year. Is Pommer getting paid to much? Sure. But Perry's cap hit is not the bar for a 50 goal scorer. No more then what Stamko's got paid is
HopefulFuture Posted June 12, 2011 Report Posted June 12, 2011 right so by the same point Stamakos was worth only the 900k or whatever from his rookie contract. So a 50 goal scorer should be getting only 900k since thats al1 he got paid. Try not ignoring the 2nd option I listed. That the player is outplaying thier contract. Which Perry did this year. Is Pommer getting paid to much? Sure. But Perry's cap hit is not the bar for a 50 goal scorer. No more then what Stamko's got paid is Oh, I didn't ignore the post, I was sarcastically responding the post on "sick of Perry and his contract" because the comparison can be made given the similarities with regards to position played and the difference in production output at the position. I'm merely of the opinion that Jason Pominville is a good 2 way right winger that plays the PK to some effective extent and pots on average 25 goals and 60 points. I'm thinking he is a decent tradable commodity given his game style and the addition of Boyes this past deadline along with Kassian in the pipeline on his way to the AHL for some transition to the pros training, the injury this past season not withstanding of course. The trade would most likely have to be made at the next deadline to allow teams to see that he has recovered from the injury. It would be nice if he went on a tear and bottled up 55 points or so prior to the deadline. I would move Pominville to help bolster the center position and clear that 5.3 million dollar cap hit. It will ease the pain on the Myers upcoming contract and help the team longterm in my opinion.
Lanny Posted June 12, 2011 Report Posted June 12, 2011 Oh, I didn't ignore the post, I was sarcastically responding the post on "sick of Perry and his contract" because the comparison can be made given the similarities with regards to position played and the difference in production output at the position. I'm merely of the opinion that Jason Pominville is a good 2 way right winger that plays the PK to some effective extent and pots on average 25 goals and 60 points. I'm thinking he is a decent tradable commodity given his game style and the addition of Boyes this past deadline along with Kassian in the pipeline on his way to the AHL for some transition to the pros training, the injury this past season not withstanding of course. The trade would most likely have to be made at the next deadline to allow teams to see that he has recovered from the injury. It would be nice if he went on a tear and bottled up 55 points or so prior to the deadline. I would move Pominville to help bolster the center position and clear that 5.3 million dollar cap hit. It will ease the pain on the Myers upcoming contract and help the team longterm in my opinion. Wonder how his injury affects his trade-ability.
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