2011 Stanley Cup Finals

[Wyldnwoody44]

Vancouver didn't get screwed. Rome delivered a very late, illegal hit and got nailed for it. I didn't expect 4 games, but I won't say that's unfair.

 

 

 

Tell me how a late center ice hit would have anything to do with putting a 6-foot "no hit" line around the boards?

Its because the nhl is slowly turning the great game of hockey into figure skating/disney on ice and its getting ridiculous. Pretty soon players will get two minutes for shooting too hard

[SwampD]

Its because the nhl is slowly turning the great game of hockey into figure skating/disney on ice and its getting ridiculous. Pretty soon players will get two minutes for shooting too hard

What he said.

[bunomatic]

Its because the nhl is slowly turning the great game of hockey into figure skating/disney on ice and its getting ridiculous. Pretty soon players will get two minutes for shooting too hard

The same as the n.f.l. is turning into pansies on grass? There's nothing wrong with trying to protect players from devastating life threatening head trauma and injuries. If a league as tough as the n.f.l. can be proactive in their approach to this problem why can't the n.h.l? I absolutely loved the hard hitting 3rd game of the Van. Bos. series but it really sucks to see anyone laying on the ice unable to think let alone walk off the ice because of a head injury. Just my opinion.

[SwampD]

The same as the n.f.l. is turning into pansies on grass? There's nothing wrong with trying to protect players from devastating life threatening head trauma and injuries. If a league as tough as the n.f.l. can be proactive in their approach to this problem why can't the n.h.l? I absolutely loved the hard hitting 3rd game of the Van. Bos. series but it really sucks to see anyone laying on the ice unable to think let alone walk off the ice because of a head injury. Just my opinion.

It's hypocritical. The only way they will stop those injuries is to penalize those same type of hits that don't lead to injuries. They don't because they want those type of hits. The suspension just makes it look like they actually care. We know better.

[bunomatic]

It's hypocritical. The only way they will stop those injuries is to penalize those same type of hits that don't lead to injuries. They don't because they want those type of hits. The suspension just makes it look like they actually care. We know better.

Ya thats true. I saw Torres jump to make almost every hit he made last night and he jumped on the hits that missed as well and he wasn't penalized for it. The guy looks to take heads off,not just make good hits and he's applauded for it by Vancouver fans. I love a good open ice hit but there's so little that separates that from what we saw Horton take. Is the injury or outcome the only thing that separates the two hits? Its a tough call and the leagues in a tough spot because for many people the violence is the only thing that draws them to the game.

[Weave]

Horton ended up with a severe head injury the same way Kariya and Lindros ended up with severe head injuries after crossing paths with Stevens. It wasn't the hit itself. It was his coconut bouncing off the ice. Campbell's hit on Umberger was about as clean as a blow up hit can get and Umberger was wrecked because he bounced his head off the ice.

 

Here's a novel approach, how about the league get serious about head protection? Those helmets are nice and light and do a pretty decent job of protecting against normal hits and falls. But they have proven to be just about useless in a heavy collision when a player gets his head bounced on the playing surface. The NFL got serious about helmet design. The NHL needs to get serious about helmet design too. If the NHLPA was really interested in protecting the welfare of their players they'd be all over improving the equipment that protects a players most valuable asset.

[bunomatic]

Horton ended up with a severe head injury the same way Kariya and Lindros ended up with severe head injuries after crossing paths with Stevens. It wasn't the hit itself. It was his coconut bouncing off the ice. Campbell's hit on Umberger was about as clean as a blow up hit can get and Umberger was wrecked because he bounced his head off the ice.

 

Here's a novel approach, how about the league get serious about head protection? Those helmets are nice and light and do a pretty decent job of protecting against normal hits and falls. But they have proven to be just about useless in a heavy collision when a player gets his head bounced on the playing surface. The NFL got serious about helmet design. The NHL needs to get serious about helmet design too. If the NHLPA was really interested in protecting the welfare of their players they'd be all over improving the equipment that protects a players most valuable asset.

Mark Messier has been promoting a new helmet design but I'm not sure how many players or teams have bought in or if they actually make a difference.

[Weave]

Mark Messier has been promoting a new helmet design but I'm not sure how many players or teams have bought in or if they actually make a difference.

 

If the design works and the league and PA was serious about it they could, you know, mandate the design be used by all players. No need to convince the players, just put it in the damned rule book.

[Eleven]

So Chara can break a guy's neck for free but this nets four playoff games for Rome?

 

I'm confused.

 

Has nothing to to with the legality of Rome's hit.

 

Horton ended up with a severe head injury the same way Kariya and Lindros ended up with severe head injuries after crossing paths with Stevens. It wasn't the hit itself. It was his coconut bouncing off the ice. Campbell's hit on Umberger was about as clean as a blow up hit can get and Umberger was wrecked because he bounced his head off the ice.

 

Here's a novel approach, how about the league get serious about head protection? Those helmets are nice and light and do a pretty decent job of protecting against normal hits and falls. But they have proven to be just about useless in a heavy collision when a player gets his head bounced on the playing surface. The NFL got serious about helmet design. The NHL needs to get serious about helmet design too. If the NHLPA was really interested in protecting the welfare of their players they'd be all over improving the equipment that protects a players most valuable asset.

 

 

Because I don't think it begins and ends with the head hitting the ice (although I think better helmets are a good start)--how about ending the hard caps on shoulder and elbow pads? I'll just bet that there's some composite out there--maybe not affordable to the casual player, but to a pro--that protects but does not become a weapon. Just a mad guess.

[rickshaw]

Ya thats true. I saw Torres jump to make almost every hit he made last night and he jumped on the hits that missed as well and he wasn't penalized for it. The guy looks to take heads off,not just make good hits and he's applauded for it by Vancouver fans. I love a good open ice hit but there's so little that separates that from what we saw Horton take. Is the injury or outcome the only thing that separates the two hits? Its a tough call and the leagues in a tough spot because for many people the violence is the only thing that draws them to the game.

 

 

Bun

 

Chara does the same hit Rome did, he walks. That's where this league is a joke. Watch Chara out there. Every time someone goes to hit him his elbow is up. He gets away with whacks all the time. The league could care less about Rome (see the SJ hit he took, no suspension)

 

I just hope Shanny gets some credibility going in the office next year.

[SwampD]

Bun

 

Chara does the same hit Rome did, he walks. That's where this league is a joke. Watch Chara out there. Every time someone goes to hit him his elbow is up. He gets away with whacks all the time. The league could care less about Rome (see the SJ hit he took, no suspension)

 

I just hope Shanny gets some credibility going in the office next year.

Just to add some more fuel to your out of control rager, the rule says -

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A lateral or blind side hit to an opponent where the head is targeted and/or the principal point of contact is not permitted.

 

It says nothing about hits coming from directly in front. :devil:

 

Again, 4 games is ri - di - cu - lous.

 

EDIT: I should also say that the rule doesn't even say that you can't hit someone in the head. It says that the head can't be "targeted and/or the principal point of contact".

[Eleven]

Just to add some more fuel to your out of control rager, the rule says -

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A lateral or blind side hit to an opponent where the head is targeted and/or the principal point of contact is not permitted.

 

It says nothing about hits coming from directly in front. :devil:

 

Again, 4 games is ri - di - cu - lous.

 

EDIT: I should also say that the rule doesn't even say that you can't hit someone in the head. It says that the head can't be "targeted and/or the principal point of contact".

 

What if we consider it to be a really egregious violation of Rule 56 instead of worrying about whether it fits the definition of 48?

 

Look, I freaking can't stand the Bruins and even don't mind seeing some measure of revenge for the elimination of Thomas Vanek last year, but that hit was dirtier than anything I've seen in Fort Erie. It looked a lot like Kassian's hit in the OHL last year.

[darksabre]

I don't understand why the NHL doesn't just ban hits to the head like every other hockey league in the world.

 

There, problem solved.

[SwampD]

What if we consider it to be a really egregious violation of Rule 56 instead of worrying about whether it fits the definition of 48?

 

Look, I freaking can't stand the Bruins and even don't mind seeing some measure of revenge for the elimination of Thomas Vanek last year, but that hit was dirtier than anything I've seen in Fort Erie. It looked a lot like Kassian's hit in the OHL last year.

If you're going to use the rules to indict him, I'm going to use them to set him free. Rule 56 has no mention of supplementary discipline for that type of interference.

 

Again, if you need 5 and a game to feel like you're a sensitive, caring human being, then fine, but 4 games is silly.

 

 

 

...I miss PA...

[Cereal]

...I miss PA...

Was just thinking this earlier today.

[Eleven]

If you're going to use the rules to indict him, I'm going to use them to set him free. Rule 56 has no mention of supplementary discipline for that type of interference.

 

Again, if you need 5 and a game to feel like you're a sensitive, caring human being, then fine, but 4 games is silly.

 

 

 

...I miss PA...

 

Sorry, but wrong...

 

56.5 Game Misconduct Penalty – When a major penalty is imposed under this rule for a foul resulting in an injury of an opponent, a game misconduct shall be imposed.

 

Then, by reference to the Game Misconduct rule (23): 23.2 Fines and Suspensions - A player incurring a game misconduct penalty shall incur an automatic fine of two hundred dollars ($200) and the case shall be reported to the Commissioner who shall have full power to impose such further penalties by way of suspension or fine on the penalized player, goalkeeper or any other player involved in the altercation.

 

And PA would have argued for 20 games. He hates these types of hits.

 

EDIT: If you don't like the suspension, it's cool; we can disagree. But to say it's not in the rules? No; it's in the rules.

[Taro T]

If you're going to use the rules to indict him, I'm going to use them to set him free. Rule 56 has no mention of supplementary discipline for that type of interference.

 

Again, if you need 5 and a game to feel like you're a sensitive, caring human being, then fine, but 4 games is silly.

 

 

 

...I miss PA...

If you're going to quote rules on Supplementary Discipline, you might want to start w/ Rule 28.1.

[SwampD]

Sorry, but wrong...

 

56.5 Game Misconduct Penalty – When a major penalty is imposed under this rule for a foul resulting in an injury of an opponent, a game misconduct shall be imposed.

 

Then, by reference to the Game Misconduct rule (23): 23.2 Fines and Suspensions - A player incurring a game misconduct penalty shall incur an automatic fine of two hundred dollars ($200) and the case shall be reported to the Commissioner who shall have full power to impose such further penalties by way of suspension or fine on the penalized player, goalkeeper or any other player involved in the altercation.

 

And PA would have argued for 20 games. He hates these types of hits.

Yep.

 

Knowing that if Horton just went into the quiet room for 15 minutes and then finished the game, there probably wouldn't even have been a suspension,.. 4 games is insulting.

[rickshaw]

Just to add some more fuel to your out of control rager, the rule says -

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A lateral or blind side hit to an opponent where the head is targeted and/or the principal point of contact is not permitted.

 

It says nothing about hits coming from directly in front. :devil:

 

Again, 4 games is ri - di - cu - lous.

 

EDIT: I should also say that the rule doesn't even say that you can't hit someone in the head. It says that the head can't be "targeted and/or the principal point of contact".

 

Love that part in bold.

 

I don't mind the 8-1 outcome at all. Better to lose that way to put it all back into perspective. The Canucks got dragged into a back street brawl and now they can re-focus.

 

I don't think the hit was that bad. It was 1 second late and Horton was admiring his pass. Rome is not dirty, and his error was stepping in too late.

 

I just think the NHL hands out stuff on reputation. One thing I admire about the NBA is that they don't care who you are, if you cross the line you get what's coming to you. They may protect their star players in foul counts but not in suspensions.

 

Chara would have gotten away with that same hit Rome gave. And that is the biggest issue I have.

 

Chara's hit on Pacioretty (sp) was a "hockey play" according to the NHL, it just went badly. Rome's hit was a hockey play gone bad as well and imo way less of a dirty play than Chara's hit that broke Pac's neck.

[Guest]

Love that part in bold.

 

I don't mind the 8-1 outcome at all. Better to lose that way to put it all back into perspective. The Canucks got dragged into a back street brawl and now they can re-focus.

 

I don't think the hit was that bad. It was 1 second late and Horton was admiring his pass. Rome is not dirty, and his error was stepping in too late.

 

I just think the NHL hands out stuff on reputation. One thing I admire about the NBA is that they don't care who you are, if you cross the line you get what's coming to you. They may protect their star players in foul counts but not in suspensions.

 

Chara would have gotten away with that same hit Rome gave. And that is the biggest issue I have.

 

Chara's hit on Pacioretty (sp) was a "hockey play" according to the NHL, it just went badly. Rome's hit was a hockey play gone bad as well and imo way less of a dirty play than Chara's hit that broke Pac's neck.

I agree 100%. If anyone remembers the Bruins/Canadiens series, there were hits that were just as bad, one by Lucic and then I think Thornton away from the play that the camera picked up. Lucic did get tossed from the game for his hit but no suspension was given and it deserved something. Campbell definitely is having an influence on these calls.

[OverPowerYou]

I agree 100%. If anyone remembers the Bruins/Canadiens series, there were hits that were just as bad, one by Lucic and then I think Thornton away from the play that the camera picked up. Lucic did get tossed from the game for his hit but no suspension was given and it deserved something. Campbell definitely is having an influence on these calls.

 

 

I remember a play where ference elbows (Gomez?) behind the play and knocked him out for a while. They get away with a Lot of cheap stuff.

[Weave]

My beef is with the lack of consistency. We lost Connolly for the remainder of the series on an "interference" play that resulted in a 5 and a game and an injury to a key player. And no supplimental discipline. Yet again, the league changed the way they do things mid-playoffs. That to me, is what makes this deal a big pile of steaming fecal matter.

[Marvelo]

They cry about the concussions and the horrible facial injuries but it can be prevented, but only if there's a league-wide revolution.

Here's what I think they have to do.

 

1. Make rinks European sized. Players are too big for the current league-standard rinks, which have been that way for years. I know this would take alot of $ but it's a necessary adjustment in my view.

 

2. Make shoulder and elbow pads softer. Hard shoulder and elbow pads made of space-age materials are the cause of many of the concussions.

 

3. Make wearing cages mandatory. Hockey is much more dangerous than football. You need facial protection in this game, f* the macho bullcrap.

 

4. Make penalties harsh and consistent, regular season and playoffs. (nuff said)

[dEnnis the Menace]

So Mike Murphy was the one who made the ruling on the suspension. When asked (the interview is on nhl.com), he had the fo=llowing to say about his reasoning:

 

"That's basically what we deliberated on. We tried to compare it with some of the other ones in the past. But it stands alone. It's why we made the ruling."

 

I disagree that it stands alone. There have been a multitude of other hits that can be considered comparable throughout the playoffs. The inconsistency of the league and the discipline handed out is ridiculous!

 

LINK

[SwampD]

So Mike Murphy was the one who made the ruling on the suspension. When asked (the interview is on nhl.com), he had the fo=llowing to say about his reasoning:

 

 

 

I disagree that it stands alone. There have been a multitude of other hits that can be considered comparable throughout the playoffs. The inconsistency of the league and the discipline handed out is ridiculous!

 

LINK

I'm done with this whole thing. What's next, people being outraged that there are crashes in NASCAR? "Ya know? those young men just drive too dern fast." :wallbash: