Drew Stafford Contract

[LastPommerFan]

Funny how you criticize Pegs for doing nothing except off the ice stuff, then list your top 5 for sugar packets as off the ice stuff.

 

I think he was replying specifically to the off-ice things pegula has done.

[Weave]

Funny how you criticize Pegs for doing nothing except off the ice stuff, then list your top 5 for sugar packets as off the ice stuff.

I think he was replying specifically to the off-ice things pegula has done.

 

yep, he was challenged by a couple posters to come up with a list. I don't know how you can criticize him when he did.

[Taro T]

yep, he was challenged by a couple posters to come up with a list. I don't know how you can criticize him when he did.

No, he was directly challenged to come up w/ a list that INCLUDED ON-ICE things that the old crew did well.

 

While you are so certain that a nice impressive list of improvements for the fans and the product on the ice could be put together, why don't you put one together? I'll stand by my list. Let's see how yours compares. It'll be fun to compare. I believe the list does "indicate" that times are different. Maybe when you actually go through the exercise you'll see that things aren't as gloomy as you'd (apparently) like them to be.

 

I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing those items on your list that should have / did improve the on ice product. At least 2/3 of my list are geared toward directly or indirectly improving the on-ice product. My expectation is that most of the items on your list will be geared toward improving the bottom line, NOT the on-ice product.

 

That he didn't come up w/ any isn't surprising and is nearly par for the course. And that, getting back to the point that STARTED this portion of the discussion, is why some people (though clearly not DeLuca) are seeing indications that the "status quo" is changing.

[spndnchz]

yep, he was challenged by a couple posters to come up with a list. I don't know how you can criticize him when he did.

 

I'm sure a more impressive list than the one you posted could be made to make the Golisano/Quinn regime seem impressive. -Deluca

 

Please try and create a list that would make the previous regime 'more impressive than the one posted'.

 

fail

[Weave]

No, he was directly challenged to come up w/ a list that INCLUDED ON-ICE things that the old crew did well.

 

That he didn't come up w/ any isn't surprising and is nearly par for the course. And that, getting back to the point that STARTED this portion of the discussion, is why some people (though clearly not DeLuca) are seeing indications that the "status quo" is changing.

 

In the interest of balance, the only item on your list that I would label an on-ice improvement that has had an effect TO DATE was #2, Trading for Boyes. The rest I would categorize as window dressing or work in progress (ie. no effect seen to date and therefore can't be fairly judged yet). So I guess his list was one item smaller than yours.

 

I don't have a horse in this race, why do I bother? :blink:

[LGR4GM]

i'll still wait 30days from today before passing any judgments on pegula an blacks new vision for buffalo. Sure we had the trade deadline but we all knew that you don't make your team then and black and pegs decided they wanted to make the playoffs so they kept ppl. Now if on july 1 or before we resign older guys or players like TC and we field the exact same team next year, than we should all be worried. Until then I will wait. Stafford being signed early intrigues me and I do not think they will trade one of our RW now, it just doesnt feel that way. Besides considering boyes will come off the books next year I am willing to see if drew isnt a 1 pump chump.

 

On to business, Drew is saying all the right things these days. He loves his contract hes glad to be staying, he wants to win a cup here etc. Culture change has occurred even among us fans. We care more because our owner actually cares more.

[Derrico]

i'll still wait 30days from today before passing any judgments on pegula an blacks new vision for buffalo. Sure we had the trade deadline but we all knew that you don't make your team then and black and pegs decided they wanted to make the playoffs so they kept ppl. Now if on july 1 or before we resign older guys or players like TC and we field the exact same team next year, than we should all be worried. Until then I will wait. Stafford being signed early intrigues me and I do not think they will trade one of our RW now, it just doesnt feel that way. Besides considering boyes will come off the books next year I am willing to see if drew isnt a 1 pump chump.

 

On to business, Drew is saying all the right things these days. He loves his contract hes glad to be staying, he wants to win a cup here etc. Culture change has occurred even among us fans. We care more because our owner actually cares more.

 

Countdown is on baby!! Offseason is long and dull for the most part. But the draft near the end of June and July 1 (maybe the whole first week of July) is pretty exciting as a hockey fan. Past years I pretty much expected minor, low level moves. But I am absolutley thrilled for the next month this season!!

[spndnchz]

In the interest of balance, the only item on your list that I would label an on-ice improvement that has had an effect TO DATE was #2, Trading for Boyes. The rest I would categorize as window dressing or work in progress (ie. no effect seen to date and therefore can't be fairly judged yet). So I guess his list was one item smaller than yours.

 

I don't have a horse in this race, why do I bother? :blink:

 

Man crush.

[Weave]

Man crush.

 

:wub:

 

Busted.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Now we've got the same people who told me for 5 years how great the Sabres were, that they really weren't great...but how great they are now because of the new ownership.

 

And we've got people who thought the previous group were scumbags, actually defending them in order to prove the Sabres still aren't great.

 

 

I'm going to go blow my brains out.

 

We've been married to the same woman for 14 years and she's never given a good hummer. Just because you give her a new car and bigger kitchen doesn't mean she's going to suddenly learn how to S a D.

 

Sorry to be so crude, but that's what it comes down to. Everybody is right. Same wife though.

[spndnchz]

Now we've got the same people who told me for 5 years how great the Sabres were, that they really weren't great...but how great they are now because of the new ownership.

 

And we've got people who thought the previous group were scumbags, actually defending them in order to prove the Sabres still aren't great.

 

 

I'm going to go blow my brains out.

 

We've been married to the same woman for 14 years and she's never given a good hummer. Just because you give her a new car and bigger kitchen doesn't mean she's going to suddenly learn how to S a D.

 

Sorry to be so crude, but that's what it comes down to. Everybody is right. Same wife though.

 

Never should have married her in the first place?

[carpandean]

We've been married to the same woman for 14 years and she's never given a good hummer. Just because you give her a new car and bigger kitchen doesn't mean she's going to suddenly learn how to S a D.

But she had one hand tied behind her back. Now it's free to cup the B's.

[SwampD]

But she had one hand tied behind her back. Now it's free to cup the B's.

:lol: :clapping:

[Taro T]

In the interest of balance, the only item on your list that I would label an on-ice improvement that has had an effect TO DATE was #2, Trading for Boyes. The rest I would categorize as window dressing or work in progress (ie. no effect seen to date and therefore can't be fairly judged yet). So I guess his list was one item smaller than yours.

 

I don't have a horse in this race, why do I bother? :blink:

I don't know why I bother either, as the original list was a response to a typical DeLuca whine that there aren't even indicators that things are different between the current and former owners.

 

ALL the original list was meant to do, was to show that there are indicators that things are different at 1SHK3P than they were under the former regime. The list provided several items that the current owners are doing that the old owners wouldn't have done. Nowhere did I state that the items should be taken individually, nor did I state that the on-ice product has been improved nor necessarily will be improved. Heck, I even went so far as to state that it'll be at least September before we'll have a decent feel for whether they're on the right track or not. But to claim there aren't indicators that this crew is going to try to improve the on-ice product is, again IMHO, silly.

 

DeLuca claimed that there was nothing on the list that indicated anything had changed and that he could make a list that made the previous ownership look "more impressive" than the new ownership. I challenged him to include items directed at the on-ice product in his list and he didn't come up w/ anything.

 

That the items in my list haven't yet shown concrete results isn't surprising as the ownership group had less than 1 week to make moves that would show a tangible result. I know that they could have punted DR &/or LR, but these guys decided while doing their due dilligence that they wanted to keep these 2 in place. I will say this again, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN KEPT, BUT I'VE SEEN ENOUGH PROMISE IN WHAT THEY HAVE DONE THROUGH THE YEARS TO BELIEVE THAT THEY MAY BE VERY SUCCESSFUL W/OUT THE CONSTRAINTS PUT UPON THEM IN THE FORMER 3 OWNERSHIP GROUPS. (Sorry for shouting, but there are times that I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall. I don't know that DR is the right man for the job, but he's shown enough that he may be. I also don't know that LR is the right man for the job, but he's shown enough that I believe at this time he is. Outside of those 2 decisions to remain "status quo" there has been almost nothing that is status quo. I'd like to at least wait until after the draft to declare this a failed regime.)

 

Below is the origins of how this went from a simple "I've seen indications that they're going to try to make a move at the draft" to where we are now.

 

I have a suspicion that an interesting discussion is actually starting. Unfortunately, I have 2 cases that have to get out the door in the very near future and won't be able to partake in that discussion.

 

Very well stated.

 

The only thing that I'd add is to point D. We will have an opportunity at the draft to see whether "real" change has permeated the organization. That is where they'll have a legit opportunity to really start to change this team around.

 

I don't know that they will make moves at the draft, but all the indicators are pointing towards it.

 

Since TP bought the team there have been several indicators that things ARE changing at 1SHK3P. I'm willing to give this crew the benefit of the doubt for now. I believe they've earned it.

What "indicators?" So far all the "indicators" point to business as usual. Same GM, same coach, trade deadline bust and over paying for their own players. Are you determining that there will be trades at the draft based on the new rug? That is the only significant change.

They've been listed a couple hundred times here, but here is a listing of items that would not have occurred under the former regime.

 

1. Rivet released.

2. Making a trade at the deadline that increased salary.

3. Keeping Enroth up even after Lalime was healthy.

4. Increasing the size of the coaching staff.

5. Increasing the size of the scouting department.

6. Spending their own money to improve the players' "office."

7. Spending their own money to improve the ice conditions.

8. Doing a few dozen little things such as providing free programs at the games.

9. Signing Pysyk 1 year before they had to.

10. Bringing in ALL the alumni that could make it to make them feel they're part of the "family."

11. Putting their prospects in the "prospect cup" (or whatever it's called in Detroit).

 

And here are some things that likely would not have happened under the previous regime.

1. Signing Stafford nearly a full month before the deadline to get him signed.

2. Being a part of the European trip to start the regular season.

3. Making an unsolicited offer to buy the Amerks.

4. Attempting (unsuccessfully, granted) to make a high profile trade at the deadline.

5. Having a tribute to Rico, more than just a moment of silence, w/in hours of his untimely passing. (I think the old regime would have had a full blown tribute to him at the next game the same as how TP & crew did.)

 

I'm certain that I'm missing a few items and I realize that any of these taken individually is not impressive. But to continue to claim that there aren't even "indicators" that things are different now is, IMHO, silly.

 

The 1st significant chance to make a modification to this team comes at the draft. It's only ~3 weeks away. I don't have a problem w/ waiting that long to see how things start to shake out. I won't be happy if they don't make a move there and I won't be happy if TC comes back, but I'm planning on waiting until we see the training camp roster before even beginning to make a judgement as to whether they seem to be moving quickly enough in the right direction or not. (I'll be pleased or displeased by what I see along the way, but I don't think we'll have seen enough to give a grade until mid-September. (Kind of like how I find rating the NFL draft on the Monday after it's done to be a wee tad premature.))

"The 1st significant chance to make a modification" was the moment after the sale was final. I know time has a habit of clouding people's memory so let's not act like the Sabres haven't signed draft picks in the past and signed their own free agents. Let's not pretend that the previous regime didn't make changes to the arena and hold fan friendly events. I'm sure a more impressive list than the one you posted could be made to make the Golisano/Quinn regime seem impressive.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

But she had one hand tied behind her back. Now it's free to cup the B's.

 

That is classic :lol:

[Braedon]

But she had one hand tied behind her back. Now it's free to cup the B's.

 

:yawn:

[Weave]

 

Below is the origins of how this went from a simple "I've seen indications that they're going to try to make a move at the draft" to where we are now.

 

I have a suspicion that an interesting discussion is actually starting. Unfortunately, I have 2 cases that have to get out the door in the very near future and won't be able to partake in that discussion.

 

I think the difference between you and DeLuca is more a difference in perspective than anything else. And I guess I can relate to both sides. What you see as noticeable changes in operation are seen by DeLuca (and myself to some extent) as the type of changes someone makes when they buy a house. Alot of the items on your list amount to a refreshening of the environment. Sure, it costs money that the previous owner wasn't willing to spend, but the real issues are the ones that the home inspector drummed up. And those haven't been addressed yet. If you've ever had a new neighbor move in that planted flowers and installed a new rug but didn't repair the gutters or fix the crumbling foundation you'll know where DeLuca and Dwight are coming from. I like very much that the new owner thought that a refreshening was a good idea. But I'm waiting until I see a contractor's van before I get excited.

 

Damn, I think I just channeled Dwight there. :blink:

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Taro...you make good points. I freely admit the franchise is in much better feng shui. It can only help the end results become more efficient. The question becomes, if the team was reaching 85% of their potential, and now they have the ability to hit 98%, is that good enough to beat a Vancouver, Boston, Philly, Detroit, etc.? It is possible that the current structure hits on all cylinders but that still isn't near enough to pass the true class.

 

In reality....we are all stuck waiting on election night for the results to come in. I think they ran the wrong candidate and if we lose...it will be 4 years before you get a shot at it again. That's all. The money is in the coffers....the plane has hit all the campaign stops.....now the votes will come in on the ice. I don't have the energy to be here and complain for the next 4 years. Pegula and his family are awesome. Ted Black is refreshing. I think Darcy and Lindy are good people and just because I feel they lack in certain areas when running a team, doesn't mean they are lacking as humans. I think Pegula sees that as well and that is why they were given some more rope.

 

Maybe they will surprise me and bring in a real man on the ice with some talent. I just have seen too much of the Darcy/Lindy philosophy for me to believe the right guy will come here. Once they finally admit that there may be a shortcoming, they sort of dip their toes in. We have no forwards on the team who can score and play physical?....well we will draft a bunch of guys that may end up here in 4 years. We have no leaders that have been through the war and know what winning a Cup is about?......well we will sign a guy off the bottom of the street who is thinking about retirement 50 weeks out of the year and tries a bit for 2 weeks. We have a towering Calder winner who has the potential to become an all-around force someday......maybe in 2015 we will bring in a guy who can teach him how to use his body and show no fear.

 

The team is slowly shifting in balance from All-flamers, to some flamers and some guys who try hard and won't back down. We still don't have 1 guy that has both the talent and desire to take the game to the opposition knowing they are the better man and forcing the other guy to prove otherwise. You get a little of that from Gaustad and Weber and Gerbe have that trait in them but still need to develop their game. If I play against the Buffalo Sabres, NOBODY SCARES ME!!!

 

Someday my prince will come.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Damn, I think I just channeled Dwight there. :blink:

 

I felt it.

[Weave]

I felt it.

 

But do you still have your dignity after I "channeled" you?

[Lanny]

i'll still wait 30days from today before passing any judgments on pegula an blacks new vision for buffalo.

Probably even safer to make it 60 or even 90. Everyone wants that quick fix.

[korab rules]

1) They saved the franchise.

 

Do I actually need to add more?

 

2) The Ribbon scoreboard.

3) The Party in the Plaza.

4) Hosting the World Juniors

5) Hosting the Frozen Four.

6) Multiple uniform changes that fans ate up.

There is another list.

 

1) Retaining Regier.

2) Retaining Ruff.

3) Overpaying/overvaluing their own players.

 

That is a list of mistakes that Quinn/Golisano made and that Pegula seems all too happy to repeat.

 

 

The bolded items all put a significant amount of money into the owner's pockets. Not saying they were not good for the organization or fans, but they were no brainers for the "Business".

 

The second list involves some speculation to accept. Giving Ruff and Regier a chance to work without financial handcuffs (and it goes beyond spending to the cap, things like the Teppo debacle) could be worth a shot, I don't like keeping regier, but it could work. #3 in that list is based primarily on the stafford contract, and if the same tactic had been in place in 2007 we'd have Vanek for $5-6M rather than $7M+ and he'd be an absolute steal.

 

I agree that nothing significant has changed in the on-ice product, but pegula's w-l record is solid, and I don't think the Canucks would be leading the finals if you take Kessler, Raymond, and one of the Sedins out of their line-up (*see disclaimer)

 

*Disclaimer- I am not saying Roy, Connoly, and Pommers are on par with the Kessler, Raymond, and a Sedin, but the fact is three of our top 4 forwards were out with injury during that series.

 

Ummm - 1, 2 and 3 also put money in OSP's pocket - He cleared about 100 million dollars on his Sabres investment. The whole point of the ribbon board was the ability to sell additional advertising. As for the party in the plaza - did you have any of those drafts they were selling? I can't remember how much they were - $4.00 comes to mind - but they sure weren't selling them at cost!

[spndnchz]

yep, he was challenged by a couple posters to come up with a list. I don't know how you can criticize him when he did.

 

Maybe because the Buffalo frozen four was in April of 2003 and Golisano bought the team in March of 2003. He had absolutely nothing to do with that event.

[nobody]

Can someone put together a list from the Rigas era?

[nobody]

In reality....we are all stuck waiting on election night for the results to come in. I think they ran the wrong candidate and if we lose...it will be 4 years before you get a shot at it again. That's all. The money is in the coffers....the plane has hit all the campaign stops.....now the votes will come in on the ice.

 

 

Wait - now we're talking politics? That is fully Golisano's space. :)

 

 

All I know is lately the interviews with players have indicated that players around the league are noticing the change that is occurring in Buffalo. That is a huge positive first step for the Sabres organization that seems to have rated near the bottom in player's minds based on those past surveys.