[OT] - Kentucky Derby, which horse(s) do you like?

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Actually I think that covering Horse Racing should be cheap programming. It's one sport where the athletes have absolutely no collective bargaining power. (aside from Jocks, of course)

 

I don't see how they could lose money doing it.

 

They won't lose money, but they need to make money. The money is in the betting signal. In a perfect world, the bigger tracks would find a way to make NBC a partner in their online wagering platforms to increase overall interest through more national exposure. Right now as is always the case with racing, is you have split factions. Everyone knows they need to work together to survive let alone grow, but egos, politics and greed always get in the way.

 

There are 2 fulltime horseracing networks, but they are pretty much relegated to sports packages on the dishes. TVG doesn't have any ownership in tracks, and HRTV is Stronach's, which helps because he has an online wagering hub to go with the racetracks. In a perfect world, you would see NBC/Stronach/NY/Curchill/Gaming Company all come to terms in a partnership that can really promote racing through national television then hook viewers into wagering from their computers. Anyone that can make it to the actual track is great, but realisticaly not everyone is located near a racetrack. The slot machines and gaming have helped to subsidise the sport, but it's pretty much a bandaid.

 

 

Long term, you need to get people connected to the animals themselves. I've gone to the track with dozens of friends and family, but I have only "developed" a few into decent casual bettors and nobody into what i would call a regular one. However, when I bring them to the barn to interact with the horses, they become emotionally invested. They become a fan of the actual animals and always want to know how they are doing and when they are running. They bet more because of this. With the internet and technology now, it is possible to hook up casual fans into ownership groups to get them truly invested in the game. The average person can't spit up $30-50k a year to train a horse and another $X000 to buy one. But if you can offer very small percentages to get people in ground level without the huge risk, many will find it worth it just for the connection. They do this in Japan. The problem with this plan is the job of a trainer and staff is intensive enough that it becomes a real pain to deal with many "small" owners who want to visit, talk, get tickets and perks, etc. There are a few bigger partnerships who dedicate someone to interact with the owners and keep things smooth without interference, but the administrative costs added to the markups on the horses make it much tougher to ever make money. Animal Kingdom is owned by such a group, but they play at the top end and many investors are just as happy to network and be seen as they are with any cash involved. For the average person who maybe can afford a few thousand dollars to blow but still wants a chance to hit a homerun, the viable options are few. That needs to change, and I think over the next few years a national program needs to be put together to bring awareness and affordable opportunities to the average person while not sucking the horsemen's resources dry in administrating such a daunting task.

[Freeezo]

They won't lose money, but they need to make money. The money is in the betting signal. In a perfect world, the bigger tracks would find a way to make NBC a partner in their online wagering platforms to increase overall interest through more national exposure. Right now as is always the case with racing, is you have split factions. Everyone knows they need to work together to survive let alone grow, but egos, politics and greed always get in the way.

 

There are 2 fulltime horseracing networks, but they are pretty much relegated to sports packages on the dishes. TVG doesn't have any ownership in tracks, and HRTV is Stronach's, which helps because he has an online wagering hub to go with the racetracks. In a perfect world, you would see NBC/Stronach/NY/Curchill/Gaming Company all come to terms in a partnership that can really promote racing through national television then hook viewers into wagering from their computers. Anyone that can make it to the actual track is great, but realisticaly not everyone is located near a racetrack. The slot machines and gaming have helped to subsidise the sport, but it's pretty much a bandaid.

 

 

Long term, you need to get people connected to the animals themselves. I've gone to the track with dozens of friends and family, but I have only "developed" a few into decent casual bettors and nobody into what i would call a regular one. However, when I bring them to the barn to interact with the horses, they become emotionally invested. They become a fan of the actual animals and always want to know how they are doing and when they are running. They bet more because of this. With the internet and technology now, it is possible to hook up casual fans into ownership groups to get them truly invested in the game. The average person can't spit up $30-50k a year to train a horse and another $X000 to buy one. But if you can offer very small percentages to get people in ground level without the huge risk, many will find it worth it just for the connection. They do this in Japan. The problem with this plan is the job of a trainer and staff is intensive enough that it becomes a real pain to deal with many "small" owners who want to visit, talk, get tickets and perks, etc. There are a few bigger partnerships who dedicate someone to interact with the owners and keep things smooth without interference, but the administrative costs added to the markups on the horses make it much tougher to ever make money. Animal Kingdom is owned by such a group, but they play at the top end and many investors are just as happy to network and be seen as they are with any cash involved. For the average person who maybe can afford a few thousand dollars to blow but still wants a chance to hit a homerun, the viable options are few. That needs to change, and I think over the next few years a national program needs to be put together to bring awareness and affordable opportunities to the average person while not sucking the horsemen's resources dry in administrating such a daunting task.

 

Great info and post man.

 

BTW have you changed your horse for the preakness at all?

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Great info and post man.

 

BTW have you changed your horse for the preakness at all?

 

Thanks. Every year at this time people get interested in racing, but after the crown the casual person usually goes on their way. The key is to find enough trustworthy people in the industry to oversee a bigger program and have the patience to deal with dozens of small owners with the reward being longterm development of fans who will invest in putting on the product, which allows for bigger fields and more betting options. It's tough right now finding the balance of someone who doesn't feel the need to make a big buck off of putting syndicates together yet can offer a quality enough horse for someone to have a chance of it developing into a real prospect. It can be just as rewarding watching your horse win a $5,000 claiming race, but there is nothing like finding a horse early and watching him progress into a threat at a high level. The old saying is "Nobody ever commited suicide with a good 2yo in the barn."

 

I'm still all-in on MMM for the Preakness. He worked this morning and was on the bit. Nehro confirmed out today, which I expected. Animal Kingdom looks really good though from the pics I saw. The question becomes how fast the pace is. There should be more speed up front and I can see both those horses a little closer than in the Derby. If MMM can lay back just enough and still get first jump on AK, then I think he gets it done. I still haven't seen many of the new shooters, so I would like to find one I really like so I'm not aiming at a $25 exacta. I like Flashpoint in the flesh, but I have to decide if I can throw that last race out for him. So far the Florida Derby has come up a clunker which doesn't bode well.

 

I know Dave Dryden who posts here races in Maryland. Maybe he can give us a field report. I'm not headed out there, although the $20 bottomless beer mug is a nice touch!

[X. Benedict]

Nehro won't run Preakness.

[Freeezo]

Thanks. Every year at this time people get interested in racing, but after the crown the casual person usually goes on their way. The key is to find enough trustworthy people in the industry to oversee a bigger program and have the patience to deal with dozens of small owners with the reward being longterm development of fans who will invest in putting on the product, which allows for bigger fields and more betting options. It's tough right now finding the balance of someone who doesn't feel the need to make a big buck off of putting syndicates together yet can offer a quality enough horse for someone to have a chance of it developing into a real prospect. It can be just as rewarding watching your horse win a $5,000 claiming race, but there is nothing like finding a horse early and watching him progress into a threat at a high level. The old saying is "Nobody ever commited suicide with a good 2yo in the barn."

 

I'm still all-in on MMM for the Preakness. He worked this morning and was on the bit. Nehro confirmed out today, which I expected. Animal Kingdom looks really good though from the pics I saw. The question becomes how fast the pace is. There should be more speed up front and I can see both those horses a little closer than in the Derby. If MMM can lay back just enough and still get first jump on AK, then I think he gets it done. I still haven't seen many of the new shooters, so I would like to find one I really like so I'm not aiming at a $25 exacta. I like Flashpoint in the flesh, but I have to decide if I can throw that last race out for him. So far the Florida Derby has come up a clunker which doesn't bode well.

 

I know Dave Dryden who posts here races in Maryland. Maybe he can give us a field report. I'm not headed out there, although the $20 bottomless beer mug is a nice touch!

 

Dwight Drane-

Hey I hate his (turf)pedigree but I can't believe how good the workouts of Sheriff's horse Mr. Commons 'sounds. I have to decide if I can forgive the Cal horses he has been running against though.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Dwight Drane-

Hey I hate his (turf)pedigree but I can't believe how good the workouts of Sheriff's horse Mr. Commons 'sounds. I have to decide if I can forgive the Cal horses he has been running against though.

 

I guess if a LeroixD colt can win, so can an Artie Schiller.

[SwampD]

I guess if a LeroixD colt can win, so can an Artie Schiller.

I figure this is the thread to post this. My wife is going to Saratoga this weekend and was wondering if there are any races going on. If not, what are some good restaurants there and is there some "must see" attraction in the area? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[Freeezo]

I figure this is the thread to post this. My wife is going to Saratoga this weekend and was wondering if there are any races going on. If not, what are some good restaurants there and is there some "must see" attraction in the area? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

 

Hey Swampy!!!

 

I know that Saratoga is not running it's live meet now. Runs around june-aug. Maybe Dwight Drane can help more? I've never been to that area. Wish I have though. Take care man!

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I figure this is the thread to post this. My wife is going to Saratoga this weekend and was wondering if there are any races going on. If not, what are some good restaurants there and is there some "must see" attraction in the area? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

 

Hey Swamp

 

They aren't racing yet, not until the end of July. However, there are horses training there now. If she really wants to see them, there is a training track across from the main track. There is a gate on East, just north of Union which is the main drag for the track where horsemen will go in. During the regular season they will let overflow public parking in, so I think if you go in the morning between 6-9 you have a pretty good chance of shooting a smile at the guard and saying you just want to watch them train for a few minutes. It's called the Oklahoma Track or Training Track.

 

On Union just a few hundred yards from the training track is the Horse Racing Hall of Fame. Check the hours, but it is cheap and a great history.

 

The main drag in town is Broadway. Tons of shops, antiques, cafes, etc. Just park along the strip and walk around for hours. Very quaint yet plenty of options.

Off one of the sidestreets on the north is a little Saratoga Sweets shops. They are famous for their peppermint pig. They sell like hotcakes for Christmas. They also make fancy horse suckers that are neat.

 

 

My favorite place to eat is the Wishing Well. It's only open for dinner and is a little pricey, but not horrible and you get your money's worth. It's a little north, but not very far. All the horsemen always go there and it's a classy throwback.

 

Longfellows is a nice hotel that has a decent place to eat and cool, homey bar. She may be staying there which is great if she is.

 

There is plenty of scenic driving and you could go to the state park, the performing arts center, or just look for some horse farms nearby. If she likes the slots, there is a trotters raceway nearby that has slot machines and is ok.

 

It's a cool little town. She should be at home.

[SwampD]

Hey Swamp

 

They aren't racing yet, not until the end of July. However, there are horses training there now. If she really wants to see them, there is a training track across from the main track. There is a gate on East, just north of Union which is the main drag for the track where horsemen will go in. During the regular season they will let overflow public parking in, so I think if you go in the morning between 6-9 you have a pretty good chance of shooting a smile at the guard and saying you just want to watch them train for a few minutes. It's called the Oklahoma Track or Training Track.

 

On Union just a few hundred yards from the training track is the Horse Racing Hall of Fame. Check the hours, but it is cheap and a great history.

 

The main drag in town is Broadway. Tons of shops, antiques, cafes, etc. Just park along the strip and walk around for hours. Very quaint yet plenty of options.

Off one of the sidestreets on the north is a little Saratoga Sweets shops. They are famous for their peppermint pig. They sell like hotcakes for Christmas. They also make fancy horse suckers that are neat.

 

 

My favorite place to eat is the Wishing Well. It's only open for dinner and is a little pricey, but not horrible and you get your money's worth. It's a little north, but not very far. All the horsemen always go there and it's a classy throwback.

 

Longfellows is a nice hotel that has a decent place to eat and cool, homey bar. She may be staying there which is great if she is.

 

There is plenty of scenic driving and you could go to the state park, the performing arts center, or just look for some horse farms nearby. If she likes the slots, there is a trotters raceway nearby that has slot machines and is ok.

 

It's a cool little town. She should be at home.

This is great stuff. Thanks.

[plenzmd1]

I figure this is the thread to post this. My wife is going to Saratoga this weekend and was wondering if there are any races going on. If not, what are some good restaurants there and is there some "must see" attraction in the area? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Depending on the food and atmosphere, tell her to go to Hatties for dinner and get the fried chicken..oh my a little bit o heaven on earth with that fried chicken

 

http://www.hattiesrestaurant.com/

 

Enjoy your posts Ghost...i have been a long time racing fan..started going to the the Fort in the early 80's, but really cut my teeth on MD racing starting in the Mid 80's. Man, the changes in 30 years are staggering.Somehow wonder how I made it back in the day with only 9 races to bet a day LOL. Still remember the big deal it was when you could bet a trifecta on a race(2 a day at MD), and driving th Charlestown on weekends just so we could play the Super on the last race.

 

As you mentioned Ghost, if these chucklehead track owners would get together, more money in it for all of them. We should be more like the UK, and coordinate all the tracks so that races are spaced throughout the day..and the while it may be the 5th at Pimlico, it is also the 2.20 race. Then the 5th at Belmont is the 2.25 and so on.

 

Lots of ideas on how to get racing better, but for this weekend, I let sentimentality take over and I like to bet exacta and tri combinations with all the folks who who have MD roots.So this year it is the 8, 11, 12..Prado, Dominguez, and Motion all cut their teeth on the MD circuit.

 

BTW Beyer likes Animal Kingdom and Dance City, and while he can't pick a Derby winner to save his life, he usually nails the Preakness and the Breeders Cup pretty good.

 

Speaking of Beyer, last bit o nostaglia here.Loved when he first started publishing his speed figures in The Racing Times. Everyone at Laurel would only buy the DRF out of habit, and for a good 6 months the few of us who bought the Times had nice little advantage..plus I liked that is was in a normal newspaper format..way more room to make notes

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Depending on the food and atmosphere, tell her to go to Hatties for dinner and get the fried chicken..oh my a little bit o heaven on earth with that fried chicken

 

http://www.hattiesrestaurant.com/

 

Enjoy your posts Ghost...i have been a long time racing fan..started going to the the Fort in the early 80's, but really cut my teeth on MD racing starting in the Mid 80's. Man, the changes in 30 years are staggering.Somehow wonder how I made it back in the day with only 9 races to bet a day LOL. Still remember the big deal it was when you could bet a trifecta on a race(2 a day at MD), and driving th Charlestown on weekends just so we could play the Super on the last race.

 

As you mentioned Ghost, if these chucklehead track owners would get together, more money in it for all of them. We should be more like the UK, and coordinate all the tracks so that races are spaced throughout the day..and the while it may be the 5th at Pimlico, it is also the 2.20 race. Then the 5th at Belmont is the 2.25 and so on.

 

Lots of ideas on how to get racing better, but for this weekend, I let sentimentality take over and I like to bet exacta and tri combinations with all the folks who who have MD roots.So this year it is the 8, 11, 12..Prado, Dominguez, and Motion all cut their teeth on the MD circuit.

 

BTW Beyer likes Animal Kingdom and Dance City, and while he can't pick a Derby winner to save his life, he usually nails the Preakness and the Breeders Cup pretty good.

 

Speaking of Beyer, last bit o nostaglia here.Loved when he first started publishing his speed figures in The Racing Times. Everyone at Laurel would only buy the DRF out of habit, and for a good 6 months the few of us who bought the Times had nice little advantage..plus I liked that is was in a normal newspaper format..way more room to make notes

 

Haha...yeah, I started at Fort Erie. I hit my first two races as a little kid at 10-1 and 23-1. I yelled at my dad because he didn't tell me about the daily double. It was all downhill from there.

 

I use the form but these days the Beyers aren't always an accurate picture for a speed figure. They are still the most bang for the buck if you can use your own logic along with those figures as a loose guide.

 

Animal Kingdom can bounce and still win. I know the owner well and even though I haven't talked to him recently, I know it has to be killing him to run in the Preakness when he knows his best chance is to sit for the Belmont. By running here he may finish 3rd and then not have a full tank for the Belmont. The reward is just too great though when there is a chance at the Triple Crown and to be part of history. Motion is a class act and I always loved his work on the turf. Prado has lost some of his mojo, but he is a good guy as well.

 

I think racing has known it is at a crossroads and slowly but surely the different groups have been working together more often. The staggering of post times is a no brainer. With technology the way it is, there is no excuse not to work together. In Australia if there is a holdup, the racing office makes a call to the other tracks to hold for 3 or 5 minutes even if the horses are on track so they can stagger the off times. The smaller wagering amounts on the gimmicks have been one positive move. The Rainbow 6 at Gulfstream seemed a little corny at first, but they made it worth it on the final day when the pool was seeded with a few million extra and everyone who hit basically got a Christmas present. There also looks to be a trend towards 50 cent tris and pic3/4/5. That makes it a lot easier for the smaller guy to put a realistic ticket together.

 

It's still such a throwback, but that's why I like the game. You have to think and have opinions.

 

Good luck on your bets. I still have to figure out who I'm hooking up. Dance City has good reviews, but his pedigree is one that screams for a mile or so on the turf for his best. I'm interested a little in Concealed Identity and Sway Away. Who knows.....

[plenzmd1]

The smaller wagering amounts on the gimmicks have been one positive move. The Rainbow 6 at Gulfstream seemed a little corny at first, but they made it worth it on the final day when the pool was seeded with a few million extra and everyone who hit basically got a Christmas present. There also looks to be a trend towards 50 cent tris and pic3/4/5. That makes it a lot easier for the smaller guy to put a realistic ticket together.

 

It's still such a throwback, but that's why I like the game. You have to think and have opinions.

 

 

I love the .50 cent tri's..play them all the time on TwinSpires.com...lordy that site might could be the death of me if I let it. Remember Beyer writing a column when full card simulcasting came about...said would kill bankrolls as to many races to truly handicap, and folks would be making dmb bets...thats what twinSpires can do to me :clapping: :oops:

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I love the .50 cent tri's..play them all the time on TwinSpires.com...lordy that site might could be the death of me if I let it. Remember Beyer writing a column when full card simulcasting came about...said would kill bankrolls as to many races to truly handicap, and folks would be making dmb bets...thats what twinSpires can do to me :clapping: :oops:

 

Very true. 3 minutes to post on a never won 2 lifetime for 5k, and I scramble to drf for a quick look and then scramble to put in that trifecta bet with 45 seconds of handicapping. Not smart!

 

I've learned to pace myself between small bets for action, and when to hammer things I like. I do find myself doing stuff that I wouldn't if I had to hand over cold, hard cash in line at the track. It's a lot easier clicking a few more boxes and hitting a button than it is counting out 20's and handing them over.

 

Do you ever try and get Derby tickets? One of the perks of Twinspires is the access to tickets. I think even if you bet just $5k for the year you have a good chance of getting them. If you don't plan on ever going, you still can make a good buck on them.

[plenzmd1]

Very true. 3 minutes to post on a never won 2 lifetime for 5k, and I scramble to drf for a quick look and then scramble to put in that trifecta bet with 45 seconds of handicapping. Not smart!

 

I've learned to pace myself between small bets for action, and when to hammer things I like. I do find myself doing stuff that I wouldn't if I had to hand over cold, hard cash in line at the track. It's a lot easier clicking a few more boxes and hitting a button than it is counting out 20's and handing them over.

 

Do you ever try and get Derby tickets? One of the perks of Twinspires is the access to tickets. I think even if you bet just $5k for the year you have a good chance of getting them. If you don't plan on ever going, you still can make a good buck on them.

I have not..never been to the Derby either, Been to a few Breeders Cups, Saratoga, Del Mar, Gulfstream, and just about every once run down track that is now a slot house in the Mid Atlantic.

 

Guess we reall got like Mucho Macho today eh? Kinda hard not to play him and AK..forgot AK been chillin at home at Fairhill...Motion gunna have that horse ready to go...but where to find value to go with him?