OT - Osama bin Laden Confirmed Dead

[SwampD]

Guys, can we all stay focused on the thread topic? I'm certain most, if not all, have strong opinions about the current occupant of the WH and the former occupant as well (and so on and so forth).

 

There is plenty of time (and potential future threads) to discuss those 2. But this isn't really the place for a GB/BO debate. If it continues to devolve into one, the thread will be closed.

 

Thanks.

So,.. just keep it to the celebration of one more dead Muslim. Got it.

[notwoz]

Where the heck did all those teens come that were running around the front of the white house at 1130 at night?

 

 

In all likelihood they all work on Capitol Hill -- and 99 percent of them called in sick this morning. Another example of your tax dollars at work.

[LGR4GM]

So,.. just keep it to the celebration of one more dead Muslim. Got it.

this is whats wrong with the world IMO.

[Robviously]

Things are very slowly improving--but I totally agree we have a long way to go. But to fix things you have to be honest, and the primary deficit creators were Bush and the Republicans in the 2000s. If you won't admit how we got into this-- tax cuts coupled with two wars(one voluntary) and a big prescription drug plan-- then you will never get out of this. Blaming Obama exclusively, or even primarily, for the current situation is simply denial by folks who just don't want to like him. It's OK not to like him, but not based on falsities--that's just silly.

You say the "primary deficit creators were Bush and the Republicans" but our national debt has skyrocketed in since November 2006 when the Democrats regained control of Congress. It's sort of a joke to say the Democrats are taking it seriously. Here are the federal budget deficit projections from the White House through 2020: Link. This is the plan to fix things?

 

And sorry, no, "tax cuts" are not the cause of this debt. Since the 1930's income tax revenues have topped out around 20% of GDP regardless of tax rates (see: Hauser's Law). Moreover, federal government tax revenue comes in at a little more than 2 trillion ($2,000,000,000,000) per year so unless there's a way to increase tax revenue by sixty percent, there's no way to close that deficit. We're not overspending by a little.

 

The only MoveOn.org ad that ever made any sense to me was the one with little kids working in a factory to pay off the national debt we were passing on to our children. That was made back in 2004 (I think), but suddenly the same people don't care that the national debt is rocketing out of control faster than ever.

 

I try to see the world exactly the way it is. I'm sure it's comfortable to be someone who says "Party A is always right and Party B is always wrong", but the truth is that both parties have done a poor job. And they've been rewarded for it by voters because it's always easier to promise people freebies and then let the next guy/gal figure out how to pay for it while blaming the opposite party the whole time.

[Taro T]

So,.. just keep it to the celebration of one more dead Muslim. Got it.

I wouldn't exactly call him a Muslim, but poe-tay-toe, pah-tah-toh.

 

I also don't see how / why this thread has to devolve into a game of GWB is a doodie head/ no, BO is, is not, is so, is not, ...

 

There are all sorts of directions this thread can go w/out necessarily devolving into what appears to be the inevitable GB/BO shouting match.

 

Some examples follow. There can be discussions / debates on whether to celebrate his death or mourn it or look at it wistfully as an end to 1 small portion of the war against al queda and the beginning of a new phase of it or something else all together.

 

There can be mentions about our valiant troops and operatives that developed and followed the leads which eventually led to his discovery and demise.

 

There can be discussions about how this will effect the US relations w/ Pakistan, the Arab world, and the rest of the Muslim world. There can be discussions of whether this makes an attack on Europe &/or the US more or less likely. (More likely - due to retailiation; less likely - more info about potential targets / strategies were certainly found in ObL's compound (how much of it was valid, how much was a ruse?))

 

It can be a lot simpler than that - cool he's dead, I don't enjoy anyones death - even someone like ObL, etc.

 

I don't see why THIS thread needs to devolve into a discussion of economic policies of BC/GB/BO, which is where it was going. Heck, I'm not even saying don't bring those 2 (3) into the discussion (although looking back at the post you responded to, I can see where it could be interpreted that way); but can we please not make it into Pres. Obama is wonderful / no Pres. Bush was wonderful? IMHO, this has been a really interesting discussion, I'm hoping it doesn't turn into a pissing match.

[notwoz]

Maybe gas prices will go back down, now. And, while we're at it, how about a nice, economy-stimulating tax cut.

 

I mean, if we're talking good news from Washington, I don't want to stop with a dead terrorist leader.

 

 

Taxes are about as low as they can go (just ask General Electric). The war in Afghanistan (which was started by George Bush JR.) is costing us untold billions -- even though the real poison is in Pakistan. We need to rearrange our priorities.

[Claude_Verret]

I try to see the world exactly the way it is. I'm sure it's comfortable to be someone who says "Party A is always right and Party B is always wrong", but the truth is that both parties have done a poor job. And they've been rewarded for it by voters because it's always easier to promise people freebies and then let the next guy/gal figure out how to pay for it while blaming the opposite party the whole time.

 

Well said.

[notwoz]

I read two shots above the left eye.

 

 

One shot, two shots -- what's the difference. Who cares? He's dead. But the matter hasn't been settled by a long shot.

[LGR4GM]

Taxes are about as low as they can go (just ask General Electric). The war in Afghanistan (which was started by George Bush JR.) is costing us untold billions -- even though the real poison is in Pakistan. We need to rearrange our priorities.

Problem, Pakistan has Nuclear Weapons. That is a sh*t storm that no one wants to be involved in.

[Weave]

I wouldn't exactly call him a Muslim, but poe-tay-toe, pah-tah-toh.

 

I also don't see how / why this thread has to devolve into a game of GWB is a doodie head/ no, BO is, is not, is so, is not, ...

 

There are all sorts of directions this thread can go w/out necessarily devolving into what appears to be the inevitable GB/BO shouting match.

 

Some examples follow. There can be discussions / debates on whether to celebrate his death or mourn it or look at it wistfully as an end to 1 small portion of the war against al queda and the beginning of a new phase of it or something else all together.

 

There can be mentions about our valiant troops and operatives that developed and followed the leads which eventually led to his discovery and demise.

 

There can be discussions about how this will effect the US relations w/ Pakistan, the Arab world, and the rest of the Muslim world. There can be discussions of whether this makes an attack on Europe &/or the US more or less likely. (More likely - due to retailiation; less likely - more info about potential targets / strategies were certainly found in ObL's compound (how much of it was valid, how much was a ruse?))

 

It can be a lot simpler than that - cool he's dead, I don't enjoy anyones death - even someone like ObL, etc.

 

I don't see why THIS thread needs to devolve into a discussion of economic policies of BC/GB/BO, which is where it was going. Heck, I'm not even saying don't bring those 2 (3) into the discussion (although looking back at the post you responded to, I can see where it could be interpreted that way); but can we please not make it into Pres. Obama is wonderful / no Pres. Bush was wonderful? IMHO, this has been a really interesting discussion, I'm hoping it doesn't turn into a pissing match.

 

Unfortuantely, all of those examples lead down the path to "the guy you voted for is a stink bomb", so good luck with that. :lol:

[notwoz]

Problem, Pakistan has Nuclear Weapons. That is a sh*t storm that no one wants to be involved in.

 

Precisely. I said the poison is in Pakistan, not Afghanistan. And we're up to our knees in it. As long as we don't elect another cretin like george Bush JR to the White House, we'll figure something out.

[Taro T]

Unfortuantely, all of those examples lead down the path to "the guy you voted for is a stink bomb", so good luck with that. :lol:

:lol: Yeah, I know.

 

Was just trying to clarify a poorly spelled out earlier position. Even more poorly spelled out than I initially realized, as I really have no intention of closing the thread. (If things get out of hand, a moderator or SDS himself can and will shut it down.)

[Knightrider]

I haven't read it all , but it seems pretty civil...

[darksabre]

I heard there was actually a warning being sent to Osama to evacuate, but his fax machine broke.

[bunomatic]

Haven't read the entire thread so I'm not sure if someone else mentioned this but Hitler took his own life/was killed on may 1st. Bin Laden was killed may 1st. Was the timing of this hit cloaked in symbolism on purpose? I would like to think so.

[Braedon]

I'm sure it's comfortable to be someone who says "Party A is always right and Party B is always wrong", but the truth is that both parties have done a poor job. And they've been rewarded for it by voters because it's always easier to promise people freebies and then let the next guy/gal figure out how to pay for it while blaming the opposite party the whole time.

 

Thanks for this ^^^^^^^

 

I have a family member enveloped in right-sided politics, hippie parents, family members in the military, and I work in a left-sided occupation. Talk about a schizophrenic political upbringing. With that, I have arrived at 3 conclusions:

 

1) My beliefs exist on both sides (ex: pro-environment, fiscally conservative)

2) Extreme to either side make you blind and deaf

3) Journalistic slant only serves to feed the circus. I shouldn't have to consider your agenda before I hear your report.

 

Maybe a fourth:

 

4) Rush is a d%&che bag.

[darksabre]

Thanks for this ^^^^^^^

 

I have a family member enveloped in right-sided politics, hippie parents, family members in the military, and I work in a left-sided occupation. Talk about a schizophrenic political upbringing. With that, I have arrived at 3 conclusions:

 

1) My beliefs exist on both sides (ex: pro-environment, fiscally conservative)

2) Extreme to either side make you blind and deaf

3) Journalistic slant only serves to feed the circus. I shouldn't have to consider your agenda before I hear your report.

 

Maybe a fourth:

 

4) Rush is a d%&che bag.

 

:thumbsup:

[SwampD]

I wouldn't exactly call him a Muslim, but poe-tay-toe, pah-tah-toh.

 

I also don't see how / why this thread has to devolve into a game of GWB is a doodie head/ no, BO is, is not, is so, is not, ...

 

There are all sorts of directions this thread can go w/out necessarily devolving into what appears to be the inevitable GB/BO shouting match.

 

Some examples follow. There can be discussions / debates on whether to celebrate his death or mourn it or look at it wistfully as an end to 1 small portion of the war against al queda and the beginning of a new phase of it or something else all together.

 

There can be mentions about our valiant troops and operatives that developed and followed the leads which eventually led to his discovery and demise.

 

There can be discussions about how this will effect the US relations w/ Pakistan, the Arab world, and the rest of the Muslim world. There can be discussions of whether this makes an attack on Europe &/or the US more or less likely. (More likely - due to retailiation; less likely - more info about potential targets / strategies were certainly found in ObL's compound (how much of it was valid, how much was a ruse?))

 

It can be a lot simpler than that - cool he's dead, I don't enjoy anyones death - even someone like ObL, etc.

 

I don't see why THIS thread needs to devolve into a discussion of economic policies of BC/GB/BO, which is where it was going. Heck, I'm not even saying don't bring those 2 (3) into the discussion (although looking back at the post you responded to, I can see where it could be interpreted that way); but can we please not make it into Pres. Obama is wonderful / no Pres. Bush was wonderful? IMHO, this has been a really interesting discussion, I'm hoping it doesn't turn into a pissing match.

 

C'mon. George Bush may have done some good things and he may have done some bad things, but there is no doubt that he was a doodie head.

 

I haven't read it all , but it seems pretty civil...

I am always impressed by this boards depth of knowledge (bot sides) and ability to keep it to the issues and not personal attacks,.. as wrong as the other side may be. :D

[Cereal]

In all likelihood they all work on Capitol Hill -- and 99 percent of them called in sick this morning. Another example of your tax dollars at work.

 

As someone else mentioned, George Washington University is right there.

[...]

Taxes are about as low as they can go (just ask General Electric). The war in Afghanistan (which was started by George Bush JR.) is costing us untold billions -- even though the real poison is in Pakistan. We need to rearrange our priorities.

 

So, you're saying that in the 2.25 years since Obama got into office, he's had his hands tied and could not urge the fully Democrat Congress (up until January) to do something about taxes, and get out of Afghanistan?

 

And, I'm sorry, what about the untold billions in stimulus? Poorly planned and executed, that money may as well have been burned.

 

One shot, two shots -- what's the difference. Who cares? He's dead. But the matter hasn't been settled by a long shot.

 

I see. If you don't care for the details, just the outcome, why are you interjecting into an exchange on the details that did not include you in the first place? Why are you trying to create tension in a thread that is tense enough as it is? I know the answer, but then I would be fueling the fire.

[Bmwolf21]

I heard there was actually a warning being sent to Osama to evacuate, but his fax machine broke.

Nice.

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

'Merica.

[TheMatrix31]

I really find myself wishing (-) buttons existed.

[wjag]

"For God and Country, Geronimo, Geronimo, Geronimo"

[Dave Dryden]

Well said.

I agree with both of you. I hardly think Democrats do everything right--they don't. And the budget is a huge problem for which both sides share some blame--although in my mind the facts indicate the CURRENT mess is largely the result of Republican policies since 2000. But then Republicans are santimonious now about about how we spend too much. Lowering taxes while fighting two wars and adding prescription drug coverage were all done on the Republicans watch. It was like buying a huge new house and two Porsches right after you lost your job. So to me, the Republicans have no more credibilty on this issue--and I think less given what they inherited budget-wise in 2001-- than Democrats. What they did with the surplus was astounding. And saying the problem "started" in 2006 is just not true. And saying taxes are high compared to historical rates is just not true.

 

We need to fix our spending problem again. It will require spending cuts in areas where it will mean something, entitlements(SS, Medicare, etc. and defense as that is where most of the budget goes by far, outside of interest payments) and some tax increases-- and not just carping on the 12% of the total budget that constitutes the "fraud waste and abuse" portion of the budget that Republicans always focus on. At the end of the day, you will not fix the problems with cuts or taxes(particularly if you won't take on defense, entitlements, etc.)--ultimately we must grow our way out of the problem, as only a robust economy will generate enough tax revenues to get the deficit down. If I could see both sides agree on these things, and do something, I would be happy. But the blame game just hurts our country, and I agree both sides need to get over their false preconceptions on the facts and leave their sacred cows behind, and get to work.