LastPommerFan Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 the playoff success numbers disagree though. what i'm saying is that we're losing in the playoffs because of the D, not the O.
Taro T Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 I'm tossing around the idea in my head that all the talk about NEEDING a #1 center and adding scoring should be the focus is out of place. We finished 9th in the league in scoring. And that was after we were in 22nd place on january 1. We finished one goal behind SJ for the lead in March and scored the most goals in the month of April (reg season). I think getting Roy back makes us better and Gerbe and MAG for full seasons increase our scoring. We can finish next season in the top 5 in scoring with the current line-up. History says that since the Lockout that's good enough to win the cup. While the D will improve some just with the expirience, bringing in a top D FA would work wonders for our young guys. Myers is good, but he's not in a position to helpp develop the 4 other guys his age. Morrison, Monte and Leopold were to busy working on getting their own game going to help out. So, rather than going after a #1 C and top Pair D, I'm throwing out the idea that we should go after 2 D a top Pair guy (my choice is Ehrhoff) and a solid 32-33 year old veteran. Better ability to clear our zone would probably increase scoring even more, and would certainly help alleviate the problems we're running into with the long change in the second period. A lot of that scoring was due to the D stepping up and joining the rush and as X has pointed out on multiple occassions playing center by committee. That style of play leads to a lot of rushes against. Having a true #1 center can take off a lot of the pressure for the D to join the rush and could let them pick their spots to join the rush rather than always going for it. It is very possible that bringing in the D that you advocate above will not cause the offense from the D to increase / remain where it was this year. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they have 4 targets this off-season - 2 centers (top line and veteran for 3rd line) and 2 D (top pairing and veteran for 2nd / 3rd pair). I'm looking forward to the draft because I am expecting them to make a trade there for at least 1 of those guys, maybe 2. I think Enroth's value has been inflated by looking at him with Sabres lenses. He's just graduating from prospect to backup. I'd agree. Lets see how he does in a full year as the backup before we annoint him the next Donnie Edwards. Dubielewicz looked pretty good back in '07. Where's that midget today?
LGR4GM Posted May 4, 2011 Author Report Posted May 4, 2011 If washington continues to implode and they choose to explode their team should we make a play for Backstrom or is he a washout in the playoffs or is he good but ovechkin is a puckhog? St. Louis, San Jose, Boston, Chicago and Philly are teams deep at center... which would can we trade with? I still prefer SJ and I want them to win because they will be pressed to sign some of their guys that way. Thoughts here? Pavelski for Stafford and Sekera/Butler (i can hope)
Weave Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 what i'm saying is that we're losing in the playoffs because of the D, not the O. And how many of the issues with D are related to out of position forwards that aren't effective in covering the center of the ice and the defensive slot? Nearly everyone evaluating this team post-playoffs is singling out center ice as the spot that needs upgrade the most. It is that glaring a problem. Don't get me wrong. Our defence needs an upgrade if we are going to have a Cup contending team. But, we have a full slate of NHL capable defensemen. We only have 2 natural centers on the roster. We can't even field a full squad of centers. The team needs centers. Defense is #2 in priority because they have enough.
novascotiaguy Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 320 pts. in 350 games. If he's not a 1A he's a 1B. Roy has 383 points in 469 games I do not see this as a big upgrade.
BetterDays06 Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 If washington continues to implode and they choose to explode their team should we make a play for Backstrom or is he a washout in the playoffs or is he good but ovechkin is a puckhog? St. Louis, San Jose, Boston, Chicago and Philly are teams deep at center... which would can we trade with? I still prefer SJ and I want them to win because they will be pressed to sign some of their guys that way. Thoughts here? Backstrom is only 23 and he is signed until 2020. I dont think there is anyway he will be let go by the capitals, also he holds a $6,700,000 contract. If anything, I would pick up laich and replace him with hecht. He is less expensive and a better player. Then I would go after a big dman and 1 more center. The dman would be ehrhoff and Richards.
BetterDays06 Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 This would make a great team for next year, Vanek-Richards-Pommer Boyes-Roy-Stafford Gerbe-Laich-Ennis McCormick-Goose-Kassian -Kaleta Myers-Ehrhoff Leopold-Weber Morrison-Gragnani -Sekera Miller-Enroth I did this on cap geek and It only left $415,000 to play with. So idk if it is possible. But who knows. Anyone else have lines they would like to see for next year? and be realistic
Crusader1969 Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 This would make a great team for next year, Vanek-Richards-Pommer Boyes-Roy-Stafford Gerbe-Laich-Ennis McCormick-Goose-Kassian -Kaleta Myers-Ehrhoff Leopold-Weber Morrison-Gragnani -Sekera Miller-Enroth I did this on cap geek and It only left $415,000 to play with. So idk if it is possible. But who knows. Anyone else have lines they would like to see for next year? and be realistic What are the salary's you are using for both the UFA's and the RFA's on your roster?
deluca67 Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 what i'm saying is that we're losing in the playoffs because of the D, not the O. They scored 2 goals or less in 4 out of the 7 games. They scored 18 goals total in the series and a third of that total were gifts from the Flyers goalies. On the flip side the Flyers scored 4 or more goals in 4 of the 7 games against Miller. In the end the Sabres couldn't match the Flyers offense.
spndnchz Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 This would make a great team for next year, Vanek-Richards-Pommer Boyes-Roy-Stafford Gerbe-Laich-Ennis McCormick-Goose-Kassian -Kaleta Myers-Ehrhoff Leopold-Weber Morrison-Gragnani -Sekera Miller-Enroth I did this on cap geek and It only left $415,000 to play with. So idk if it is possible. But who knows. Anyone else have lines they would like to see for next year? and be realistic 2.46 player callups per year @ 750k to 1million salary. You need to leave about 1-2 million of cap space to be "comfortable". If you're only 415k away at the current cap, you're prolly okay.
Weave Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 I could see a lineup like this one next season. Vanek-Stasny-Boyes Ennis-Roy-Ville Leino Brooks Laich-Hecht-Pomminstein McCormick-Gaustad-Kaleta Myers-Jan Hejda Leopold-Butler Sekera-Morissonn Miller-Enroth Leino, Laich, and Hejda signed as free agents. Stafford, Weber, and Gerbe moved to Colorado to obtain Paul Stasny. Obviosuly, it's all fantasy and I have no idea if Hejda, Laich, and Leino all fit under the cap when they get their payday. But I think it's plausible.
deluca67 Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 I could see a lineup like this one next season. Vanek-Stasny-Boyes Ennis-Roy-Ville Leino Brooks Laich-Hecht-Pomminstein McCormick-Gaustad-Kaleta Myers-Jan Hejda Leopold-Butler Sekera-Morissonn Miller-Enroth Leino, Laich, and Hejda signed as free agents. Stafford, Weber, and Gerbe moved to Colorado to obtain Paul Stasny. Obviosuly, it's all fantasy and I have no idea if Hejda, Laich, and Leino all fit under the cap when they get their payday. But I think it's plausible. Not sure how the off-season will shake out. I do know one thing, I want Myers and Weber on the roster next year. We finally have a bada$$ in Weber on the back line. IMO, Weber is more of a "untouchable" than Miller and Vanek.
Weave Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 Not sure how the off-season will shake out. I do know one thing, I want Myers and Weber on the roster next year. We finally have a bada$$ in Weber on the back line. IMO, Weber is more of a "untouchable" than Miller and Vanek. Then find me a center that doesn't require a defensive defenseman going back. :devil: :P
tom webster Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 2.46 player callups per year @ 750k to 1million salary. You need to leave about 1-2 million of cap space to be "comfortable". If you're only 415k away at the current cap, you're prolly okay. Two things, 1) The only question is how much the cap's going up, not if 2) With no real budget, the Sabres will be more likely to put guys on IR resulting in cap relief for number of days on IR
notwoz Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 If washington continues to implode and they choose to explode their team should we make a play for Backstrom or is he a washout in the playoffs or is he good but ovechkin is a puckhog? St. Louis, San Jose, Boston, Chicago and Philly are teams deep at center... which would can we trade with? I still prefer SJ and I want them to win because they will be pressed to sign some of their guys that way. Thoughts here? Pavelski for Stafford and Sekera/Butler (i can hope) I like Backstrom, but I'm not convinced about him (assuming he can be pried away from the Caps) -- or anyone else on the Caps, for that matter. There's an unsettling aspect about the Caps. They seem to be built for the regular season and not the playoffs, kind of like a certain hockey team from WNY. Ovechkin is a puckhog, and he's undisciplined as well. He played along with the plan when the Caps tried to adapt to a more defensive style of play in mid-season. But in the playoffs he has reverted to his old self, taking undisciplned penalties (in tonight's game) or looking like someone who believes his own press clips (last night when he tried to stickhandle his way through three defenders late in the game).
LGR4GM Posted May 5, 2011 Author Report Posted May 5, 2011 Not sure how the off-season will shake out. I do know one thing, I want Myers and Weber on the roster next year. We finally have a bada$$ in Weber on the back line. IMO, Weber is more of a "untouchable" than Miller and Vanek. Thank you at least someone recognizes that anything involving Weber, our only non puck moving yet hard nosed defense, is stupid. move sekera, butler, gragani, or even leo to get us a center. ps I love how 2 months ago I was ridiculed for saying we should get Ehrhoff now its like the cool thing to say...
LastPommerFan Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 And how many of the issues with D are related to out of position forwards that aren't effective in covering the center of the ice and the defensive slot? Nearly everyone evaluating this team post-playoffs is singling out center ice as the spot that needs upgrade the most. It is that glaring a problem. Don't get me wrong. Our defence needs an upgrade if we are going to have a Cup contending team. But, we have a full slate of NHL capable defensemen. We only have 2 natural centers on the roster. We can't even field a full squad of centers. The team needs centers. Defense is #2 in priority because they have enough. Deluca made a similar comment, only regarding playoffs. I'll review all the film on GameCenter this summer, but from my current research, I agree we need centers, we just don't need to be looking for Art Ross/Rocket Richard/Hart Trophy candidates. We should be looking at the Selke candidates. This is a significant change in the discussion. Points and Goals are no longer the objective for the signing of a center in the line of thought I'm following. It's positioning and Defense. The Centerman has a lot more responsibilities in our own zone. The bad part about this is it is a lot harder to evaluate this talent, and I'm not sure the current pro-scout wing of the organization is up to the task. The nice part about this realization is Defensive Forwards command significantly less salary than the guys who put up the big point numbers. So we can go after 1 or 2 solid defensive centers in the $2-4M and then use the cap room to add top tier Blue Line talent in the $4-6M range.
Braedon Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 Then find me a center that doesn't require a defensive defenseman going back. :devil: :P BROOKS LAICH Sorry, I love this guy. he's a grinder, good on the power play, good defensively. Oh.....and a FA. Current salary 2.4mil, thinking he's going to be asking 3.5+
wonderbread Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 ps I love how 2 months ago I was ridiculed for saying we should get Ehrhoff now its like the cool thing to say... Trendsetter. :rolleyes: I have read a lot you have had to say over the last 3 months.
Weave Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 BROOKS LAICH Sorry, I love this guy. he's a grinder, good on the power play, good defensively. Oh.....and a FA. Current salary 2.4mil, thinking he's going to be asking 3.5+ My idea already had him coming in (post #86). My comment was directed more towards bringing in a #1 for Vanek. I don't think Laich would be a good fit there.
shrader Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 They scored 2 goals or less in 4 out of the 7 games. They scored 18 goals total in the series and a third of that total were gifts from the Flyers goalies. On the flip side the Flyers scored 4 or more goals in 4 of the 7 games against Miller. In the end the Sabres couldn't match the Flyers offense. You left a very important phrase out of that response: "against crappy goaltending".
Braedon Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 My idea already had him coming in (post #86). My comment was directed more towards bringing in a #1 for Vanek. I don't think Laich would be a good fit there. Sorry, didn't read upthread far enough. I really think he'd be a great fit here. He's played with Semin and Arnott, Ovy and Backstrom at different points of the year. His +/- was 14 and has been in the black for most his career. The problem is he isn't a true center, or at least Boudreau has him mostly on the left wing. His defensive experience is what excites me. And for 3.5, I think he'd bring more to the team than some of the dead weight we have here.
X. Benedict Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 Roy has 383 points in 469 games I do not see this as a big upgrade. I wasn't thinking upgrade...I was thinking another center
Calvin Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 They scored 2 goals or less in 4 out of the 7 games. They scored 18 goals total in the series and a third of that total were gifts from the Flyers goalies. On the flip side the Flyers scored 4 or more goals in 4 of the 7 games against Miller. In the end the Sabres couldn't match the Flyers offense. But with a better D we would not have shipped 4 or more in 4 out of 7 games against the Flyers.
LGR4GM Posted May 5, 2011 Author Report Posted May 5, 2011 Deluca made a similar comment, only regarding playoffs. I'll review all the film on GameCenter this summer, but from my current research, I agree we need centers, we just don't need to be looking for Art Ross/Rocket Richard/Hart Trophy candidates. We should be looking at the Selke candidates. This is a significant change in the discussion. Points and Goals are no longer the objective for the signing of a center in the line of thought I'm following. It's positioning and Defense. The Centerman has a lot more responsibilities in our own zone. The bad part about this is it is a lot harder to evaluate this talent, and I'm not sure the current pro-scout wing of the organization is up to the task. The nice part about this realization is Defensive Forwards command significantly less salary than the guys who put up the big point numbers. So we can go after 1 or 2 solid defensive centers in the $2-4M and then use the cap room to add top tier Blue Line talent in the $4-6M range. Thats why we should go for a Pavelski type player. Hes got positioning, hes only 4mil, hes on a team with too many centers, and hes +21 for his career with 244pts in 349 gp and he had 28 ppp last year so he knows how to work on a top pp. I have been favoring and arguing for him for months. SJ will have to at the end of the season sign a rw because basically the only one they have is a rfa. Stafford is someone i bet a lot of teams would show interest in this summer because of how he was scoring. SJ also has 3 defensmen who are UFA's and are older guys. We have 4 guys who will be RFAs who will need to be signed and are decent at worst. So I say we offer them Drew who they could sign for less than 4mil and either Sekera or butler who they can resign for less than what they are paying some of their vets about to be let go. Probably have to give them sekera. In this scenario they shed 4mil in cap from Pavelski and sign drew for 3.75 or less. They dump one of their roughly 2mil a year defenders for sekera or butler- Sekera is 1.5ish butler 800kish and they save again about 1 million or more in cap space when all is said and done. If you have too you throw in a 4th rounder or something but if SJ wins the cup or comes close some of their UFA's and maybe even RFA's will have inflated values just like Chicago players after last year and their top guys Heatley, Thorton, Marleu can not be traded unless they waive their NTC. SJ has Thorton, Marleu, Pavelski, Coture as centers. I feel like we could trade for one of the bottom two and the most likely is Pavelski.
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