Taro T Posted May 27, 2011 Report Posted May 27, 2011 In the past 3 seasons, 40% of the teams in the east have won 2 or more playoff series. Pit,Was,TB,Bos,Phi,Mon Carolina has won 1. If you cannot win 2 series in 3 years, this put you in 7th in the conference to start. If you and Webster want to argue that I am supporting a "comfortable position" by countering unbridled optimism in stating the Sabres will not participate in a conference finals in the next 3 years and win at maximum 2 series, yet at the same time claim this team is already a contender and a player or two away from being a top team......I don't quite understand how those two things line up. To me, the comfortable position seems to be already setting up an excuse as to why they will not reach a conference final, yet at the same time you also chide the very same teams that have been able to do it the past few years. You guys like to carry the "29 teams don't win the Cup every year" banner, but that is not what I am saying. I'm saying this team in their current administrative and financial position will not be able to even sniff a cup in 3 years......or get to a position that 4-6 teams in the East will manage to do. If you are excited about a team that is the 5th-7th best in the conference going forward, be my guest. But I am offended by the seemingly constant excuses and lowering of the bar year after year so CoachForLife and his bretheren can meet the fans emotional standard for success. "Winning is not a belief, it's relative." Wow, 3 separate responses to 1 post. I feel honored. :beer: 1st off, I have to throw out: according to your post above the AVERAGE team has 0 playoff wins over the past 3 years. :P As the Sabres are currently constructed, they are NOT a contender. But, with the right 2-4 players, they absolutely would be a contender. As they are currently construed, 5th - 7th is pretty much where they should be. But if they can add a #1 center (which to be added this year would necessarily be via trade, as I doubt they'd end up w/ B. Richards) and a top D-man to pair w/ Myers, they are up there. Throw in an upgrade at #2/#3 center and either another solid D-man or winger and they ice as good a team as any in the east. Depending upon how well "the kids develop" and how well the top teams from the west stay at their current level, they might ice as good or better a team as any in the league. As weak as the team was this year, they were 1 horribly ill advised holding penalty from winning their 1st round series in 6 games. I am hopefully optimistic that they'll pick up at least 1 of the pieces they need this off-season and don't see much reason to expect they won't win 2 or more series by the end of '13-'14. And while I'd be surprised if they don't get either 3 1st round wins &/or a 2nd round win in the next 3 years, there's extremely little chance that I'd put money on it at this time. (I tend to only go for sure things, as DeLuca could vouch. ;)) Out of curiosity, which teams am I "chiding for making the conference finals?"
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 27, 2011 Report Posted May 27, 2011 It's amusing how you guys pick and choose how many years you go back to make your point. It's amusing how you attempt to chisle at me through litigious tactics when obviously being outgunned. THE 3 YEAR PLAN TO WIN A STANLEY CUP WAS OFFERED UP BY YOUR BELOVED BUFFALO SABRES. I said not only are they not "1 or 2 players away", but they will be hard pressed to win 2 playoff series over the next 3 years COMBINED. Taro was trying to get cute with the numbers to once again lower the standards for all things Sabres, and although I understand the spirit of the thought, he was incorrect. You try and tell me that I am taking a "comfortable" position in my assesment, yet at the same time I showed you how 40% of the teams in the east have achieved at least 2 series wins in the past 3 years, and that if the Sabres can't manage to get to the Conference finals in 3 years, that would place them between 5th and 7th in the conference as far as "verility" goes. Again, if 5th to 7th in the conference is your ideal of a championship quality team, then color me unimpressed. But to argue in one breath that this is a team on the verge of greatness, yet at the same time tell me that my proclaimation that they will not be able to crack the top 4, or in worst case, 6 teams in the conference is me being safe.......then I may have overestimated your insight if you are being honest with your assesment and not just trying to menace.
LastPommerFan Posted May 27, 2011 Report Posted May 27, 2011 I am totally stoked that the Bills are going to win 3 playoff games in the next 3 years. They won't win one next year, which means they are playing in the AFC championship game in 2013 or 2014. That is Gonna be AWESOME!!!!! I can't wait. Meanwhile, at HSBC, while our top 10 offense compliments it's scoring with a top ten Defense by getting rid of the puck movement breakdown machine that TinTim turned into, adds a top veteran D-man in FA or through trade, adds a solid defensive-centerman, the weber/butler/sekera/Mag four headed potential monster sorts itself out into 2-3 solid defenders who clear the puck without hesitation, calls up a few of their headbashing prospects for a few games to help "set the mood", and Ryan Miller recovers from the one season dip in improvement he's shown on his journey to become one of the 5 best goalies in the league, I'll enjoy watching RJ call the ECF while he's still working more than half a season.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 27, 2011 Report Posted May 27, 2011 As the Sabres are currently constructed, they are NOT a contender. But, with the right 2-4 players, they absolutely would be a contender. As they are currently construed, 5th - 7th is pretty much where they should be. But if they can add a #1 center (which to be added this year would necessarily be via trade, as I doubt they'd end up w/ B. Richards) and a top D-man to pair w/ Myers, they are up there. Throw in an upgrade at #2/#3 center and either another solid D-man or winger and they ice as good a team as any in the east. Depending upon how well "the kids develop" and how well the top teams from the west stay at their current level, they might ice as good or better a team as any in the league. I agree in full with this. A #1 center A #1 Dman A #2/3 center A top 6 winger or top 4 defenseman away from being a top team in the league Show me how to come up with $22 million or what assets we can use to get those players, and I will be the first to yell "All Aboard!" The Bills are a #1 tackle, a #1 QB, a top 30% linebacker, and an average TE away from being 11-5.
LastPommerFan Posted May 27, 2011 Report Posted May 27, 2011 I agree in full with this. A #1 center A #1 Dman A #2/3 center A top 6 winger or top 4 defenseman away from being a top team in the league Show me how to come up with $22 million or what assets we can use to get those players, and I will be the first to yell "All Aboard!" The Bills are a #1 tackle, a #1 QB, a top 30% linebacker, and an average TE away from being 11-5. you are aware that the two biggest needs for the bills are the two most difficult to find players in any sport with the exception of a lights out closer in baseball, right?
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 27, 2011 Report Posted May 27, 2011 I am totally stoked that the Bills are going to win 3 playoff games in the next 3 years. They won't win one next year, which means they are playing in the AFC championship game in 2013 or 2014. That is Gonna be AWESOME!!!!! I can't wait. Meanwhile, at HSBC, while our top 10 offense compliments it's scoring with a top ten Defense by getting rid of the puck movement breakdown machine that TinTim turned into, adds a top veteran D-man in FA or through trade, adds a solid defensive-centerman, the weber/butler/sekera/Mag four headed potential monster sorts itself out into 2-3 solid defenders who clear the puck without hesitation, calls up a few of their headbashing prospects for a few games to help "set the mood", and Ryan Miller recovers from the one season dip in improvement he's shown on his journey to become one of the 5 best goalies in the league, I'll enjoy watching RJ call the ECF while he's still working more than half a season. Yes....that is fun to envision. It's just that when I start doing so, the Benny Hill theme starts to play in my head. If you polled Buffalo fans the question of will the Sabres win more playoff series or Bills playoff games in the next 3 years, it would probably come back 95/5. In reality it is closer to 70/30. I hope the young fans here get to see what this town is like when the Bills go on a roll. It's hard to envision a tent at almost every major intersection selling t-shirts and goods for a month in freezing, snowy weather.....but it happened.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 27, 2011 Report Posted May 27, 2011 you are aware that the two biggest needs for the bills are the two most difficult to find players in any sport with the exception of a lights out closer in baseball, right? Like a #1 franchise center and a top all-around defenseman?????
tom webster Posted May 27, 2011 Report Posted May 27, 2011 I'll take 3 playoff series over 3 years at 10 to 1. To predict conference finals or Cups is ridiculous. There are too many variables. I love TP and Black's passion and determination but they are not the only rich guys that want to win.
LastPommerFan Posted May 27, 2011 Report Posted May 27, 2011 Like a #1 franchise center and a top all-around defenseman????? Just like those, but not quite as easy to get. BTW, the Sabres need neither to win silver in the next 2 years. But then again, I'm just a stats guy. It would be sexy to have a #1 Centerman and another Tyler Myers. But we don't need to be sexy, we just need to win. [click here for canned reply that you need a top centerman to win the cup because the Pens and Hawks had top centermen] [click here for canned reply that the sabres players have lost before and you can't ever win the cup with players who have lost before] [click here for canned reply that DR and LR could figure out a way to lose with the 1980s Oilers]
Taro T Posted May 28, 2011 Report Posted May 28, 2011 It's amusing how you attempt to chisle at me through litigious tactics when obviously being outgunned. THE 3 YEAR PLAN TO WIN A STANLEY CUP WAS OFFERED UP BY YOUR BELOVED BUFFALO SABRES. I said not only are they not "1 or 2 players away", but they will be hard pressed to win 2 playoff series over the next 3 years COMBINED. Taro was trying to get cute with the numbers to once again lower the standards for all things Sabres, and although I understand the spirit of the thought, he was incorrect. You try and tell me that I am taking a "comfortable" position in my assesment, yet at the same time I showed you how 40% of the teams in the east have achieved at least 2 series wins in the past 3 years, and that if the Sabres can't manage to get to the Conference finals in 3 years, that would place them between 5th and 7th in the conference as far as "verility" goes. Again, if 5th to 7th in the conference is your ideal of a championship quality team, then color me unimpressed. But to argue in one breath that this is a team on the verge of greatness, yet at the same time tell me that my proclaimation that they will not be able to crack the top 4, or in worst case, 6 teams in the conference is me being safe.......then I may have overestimated your insight if you are being honest with your assesment and not just trying to menace. Not exactly. Not lowering standards for all things Sabres. Simply pointing out hyperbole once again. Just out of curiosity, would you say there have been at least 4 and more likely 6 or 7 teams that have been consistantly better than the Caps the past 3 years? Because a team that can't get to the conference finals would appear to be the average team (at best) based upon the discussion in this thread. I agree in full with this. A #1 center A #1 Dman A #2/3 center A top 6 winger or top 4 defenseman away from being a top team in the league Show me how to come up with $22 million or what assets we can use to get those players, and I will be the first to yell "All Aboard!" The Bills are a #1 tackle, a #1 QB, a top 30% linebacker, and an average TE away from being 11-5. To be a contender they only need 1 from column A and 1 from column B. To be THE team to beat, they'll need all 4. Over the next 3 years, it isn't difficult to find $22MM in cap space opening up. They'll have ~$12MM of it heading into this coming season after giving raises to Stafford and others they're planning on keeping. I don't know what trades they're anticipating, but they've given every indication that they plan on making some. (And just for the record, I'm on record as saying 1. I doubt they win the SC w/in 3 years; 2. I think w/in 6 years is very realistic; and 3. I DO expect to see them win at least 1 SC w/in my lifetime.) As for the Bills, yeah, that's what they need. That, 1 more D-lineman, and some experience for the young guys they've been getting. Don't really see what that has to do w/ the Sabres.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 28, 2011 Report Posted May 28, 2011 [click here for canned reply that DR and LR could figure out a way to lose with the 1980s Oilers] Lindy would have played Fuhr 78 games Darcy would have let Messier go to arbitration and walk for $300K Ruff would have made Kurri captain Semenko would have had 23 penalty minutes Glen Anderson would have been traded in the offseason after playing 8 games because he was out of shape and had slow feet Kevin Lowe would be a healthy scratch And Slats would have led the Buffalo Sabres to 5 Stanley Cups
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 28, 2011 Report Posted May 28, 2011 Not exactly. Not lowering standards for all things Sabres. Simply pointing out hyperbole once again. Just out of curiosity, would you say there have been at least 4 and more likely 6 or 7 teams that have been consistantly better than the Caps the past 3 years? Because a team that can't get to the conference finals would appear to be the average team (at best) based upon the discussion in this thread. To be a contender they only need 1 from column A and 1 from column B. To be THE team to beat, they'll need all 4. Over the next 3 years, it isn't difficult to find $22MM in cap space opening up. They'll have ~$12MM of it heading into this coming season after giving raises to Stafford and others they're planning on keeping. I don't know what trades they're anticipating, but they've given every indication that they plan on making some. (And just for the record, I'm on record as saying 1. I doubt they win the SC w/in 3 years; 2. I think w/in 6 years is very realistic; and 3. I DO expect to see them win at least 1 SC w/in my lifetime.) As for the Bills, yeah, that's what they need. That, 1 more D-lineman, and some experience for the young guys they've been getting. Don't really see what that has to do w/ the Sabres. I think the Sabres could have beaten Washington. They are built like the '06-'07 Sabres, which is why they falter. I don't know where the cash is going to realistically come from....but I will watch what they do. I agree with your "on the record". Pegula has too much cash and there will soon be haves and have nots again in the NHL. I don't know that they will win in 6 years, but like I said, their 3 year plan can start in 3 years....so I'll give you 6. The Bills.....it wasn't a big deal. I was just pointing out the imbalance in outlook from a lot of fans. They may be right, but I wouldn't be shocked to see the Bills gain traction fast.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 28, 2011 Report Posted May 28, 2011 I'll take 3 playoff series over 3 years at 10 to 1. To predict conference finals or Cups is ridiculous. There are too many variables. I love TP and Black's passion and determination but they are not the only rich guys that want to win. You must sell product to the government. By the way....Vancouver is currently 3-1 to win 3 playoff series.....next year
Taro T Posted May 28, 2011 Report Posted May 28, 2011 I think the Sabres could have beaten Washington. They are built like the '06-'07 Sabres, which is why they falter. I don't know where the cash is going to realistically come from....but I will watch what they do. I agree with your "on the record". Pegula has too much cash and there will soon be haves and have nots again in the NHL. I don't know that they will win in 6 years, but like I said, their 3 year plan can start in 3 years....so I'll give you 6. The Bills.....it wasn't a big deal. I was just pointing out the imbalance in outlook from a lot of fans. They may be right, but I wouldn't be shocked to see the Bills gain traction fast. Damn, where's the fun in that. ;)
tom webster Posted May 28, 2011 Report Posted May 28, 2011 Ghost, I like how when you have no real answer you throw out some random line hoping someone will give it some deep thought. I'll make it easy, I'll take Buffalo, you take Vancouver, give me 10 to 1 total playoff series won the next three years. By the way, I don't sell anything to anyone that will make me wait 90 to 120 days for my money.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 28, 2011 Report Posted May 28, 2011 Ghost, I like how when you have no real answer you throw out some random line hoping someone will give it some deep thought. I'll make it easy, I'll take Buffalo, you take Vancouver, give me 10 to 1 total playoff series won the next three years. By the way, I don't sell anything to anyone that will make me wait 90 to 120 days for my money. Good luck getting your 10-1. Like I said, they are 7-5 to make a conference finals in 3 years. Glad to see you collect up front. Smart policy.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 28, 2011 Report Posted May 28, 2011 All of a sudden you're not so sure? I don't know what psychology or negotiating books you have read, but I hope you didn't pay retail. Besides, I need to go buy my Labatt Blue now. I don't want to tie up petty funds and only be able to afford 1 case. I need to keep my buzz on.
tom webster Posted May 28, 2011 Report Posted May 28, 2011 So just so we are all clear, we went from the Sabres are three years away from being good and Vancouver being 3 to 1 to win three series next year to you backing away and questioning my negotiating abilities?
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 28, 2011 Report Posted May 28, 2011 So just so we are all clear, we went from the Sabres are three years away from being good and Vancouver being 3 to 1 to win three series next year to you backing away and questioning my negotiating abilities? Vancouver IS 3-1 to make the Cup next year. Buffalo is NOT 10-1 to win 3 playoff series in the next 3 years. Buffalo is 10-1 to WIN A STANLEY CUP over the next 3 years. I DID offer you 10-1 on them winning the Stanley Cup. If you would like to spit out some more garbage in desperation, it would have been easier to say I'm a member of NAMBLA.
tom webster Posted May 28, 2011 Report Posted May 28, 2011 Vancouver IS 3-1 to make the Cup next year. Buffalo is NOT 10-1 to win 3 playoff series in the next 3 years. Buffalo is 10-1 to WIN A STANLEY CUP over the next 3 years. I DID offer you 10-1 on them winning the Stanley Cup. If you would like to spit out some more garbage in desperation, it would have been easier to say I'm a member of NAMBLA. [/ Whose the desperate one? Where the hell do you come up with these odds? A team you said is no good is suddenly 10 to 1 to win a Cup in three years?
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 28, 2011 Report Posted May 28, 2011 Whose the desparate one? Where the hell do you come up with these odds? A team you said is no good is suddenly 10 to 1 to win a Cup in three years? 30 teams....3 Stanley Cups available. If they were AVERAGE.....they would be 9-1 in reality, and Vegas would give you 7-1 after the vig. If they are even a top 5-10 team, they will be 5-1, 6-1. You should be doing cartwheels for 10-1. That's my hometown discount so you can put me on the hook.
tom webster Posted May 28, 2011 Report Posted May 28, 2011 30 teams....3 Stanley Cups available. If they were AVERAGE.....they would be 9-1 in reality, and Vegas would give you 7-1 after the vig. If they are even a top 5-10 team, they will be 5-1, 6-1. You should be doing cartwheels for 10-1. That's my hometown discount so you can put me on the hook. Thanks for just going over the deep end. I needed something to put me to bed.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 28, 2011 Report Posted May 28, 2011 Thanks for just going over the deep end. I needed something to put me to bed. Well, if that math is over your head, then I guess I understand how you think the Sabres have the money to sign multiple franchise players. I'm assuming you're just being grumpy. Go get some sleep.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 28, 2011 Report Posted May 28, 2011 I'm not in a mood to argue your sophistical points. I'll leave you two 2 play in your sandbox. We're done now. Don't eat the Kitty Snickers.
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