All About July 1 wishes

[Kristian]

The other option is to make him a UFA and let him walk. I guarantee he gets that kind of money in arbitration.

 

Edit: I suppose you would trade his rights for something, although probably nothing significant.

 

I fail to see the problem?

 

Stafford is expecting top line money for ONE good regular season and pretty poor post-season.

 

He has talent and size, yet is a notorious no-show in crunch time.

 

All that keeps him from being a true member of Darcy's beloved "core" is that 5 mill. contract you're talking about.

 

No flippin' way the Sabres should hand out yet another inflated contract to a borderline 2nd liner.

 

He walks for nothing, so be it.

 

Time to show this franchise is willing to walk away from bad deals, instead of setting the league standard in making them.

[LGR4GM]

How does him utilizing his arbitration right make him a primadonna? Letting an asset walk for nothing based on spite seems wasteful, foolish and similar to the types of moves the team has made in the past (Briere).

we let briere walk so we could sign drury, not because of spite. If darcy had given Briere his 5mil for 5 years at the begining of the season it would have happend. By the end Briere felt unwanted and decided to take the money and leave. And You dont want players that just want the money. Other teams sign these types of players (stafford types) to cheaper contracts than 5mil. Going to arbitration means that the player is either getting screwed by the GM or that the Player must have more money because 4mil isnt enough to buy that extra car they want. Players do not go to arbitration that often so it would be a failure if drew did and I would rather sign and trade him then or let his punk@ss walk.

[LGR4GM]

I fail to see the problem?

 

Stafford is expecting top line money for ONE good regular season and pretty poor post-season.

 

He has talent and size, yet is a notorious no-show in crunch time.

 

All that keeps him from being a true member of Darcy's beloved "core" is that 5 mill. contract you're talking about.

 

No flippin' way the Sabres should hand out yet another inflated contract to a borderline 2nd liner.

 

He walks for nothing, so be it.

 

Time to show this franchise is willing to walk away from bad deals, instead of setting the league standard in making them.

^thank you.

[LastPommerFan]

I fail to see the problem?

 

Stafford is expecting top line money for ONE good regular season and pretty poor post-season.

 

He has talent and size, yet is a notorious no-show in crunch time.

 

All that keeps him from being a true member of Darcy's beloved "core" is that 5 mill. contract you're talking about.

 

No flippin' way the Sabres should hand out yet another inflated contract to a borderline 2nd liner.

 

He walks for nothing, so be it.

 

Time to show this franchise is willing to walk away from bad deals, instead of setting the league standard in making them.

 

I'm ok with this, frees up even more space. Although I would say letting him walk for nothing when you could get a 2nd rounder for his rights would probably be the wrong thing to do.

[Weave]

Why dont we trade something we have 40 of like ooo idk DEFENSEMEN. Trade Leopold hes gotta be worth something. What about Sekera? Hes young and was impressive get someone to overpay there. How about Hecht, or 1 of our good RW Pommers (lots of teams would love him srry hes a 60-70pt a season guy and is still younger) or Drew we all think hes worth 5mil so lets trade him an someone else can spend 5 mil on him, Boyes I dont see getting traded unless we get back a little more than the pick we gave up. Butler was bad in the playoffs so trade him. Morrisonn might be worht something to someone with a young def so ditch him.

 

We are going to have to move something more valuable than a couple of our defensemen if we want much of a return. Our defense looked terrible in the playoffs, and for the 1st half of the season. We have alot of them, but they just aren't worth much so there won't be much return. Mediocrity will only return different mediocrity. ANd overpriced guys like Hecht and a concussed Pommer with a rehabbing leg aren't gonna move either. It is going to take moving someone with real value to get real value in return.

[LastPommerFan]

We are going to have to move something more valuable than a couple of our defensemen if we want much of a return. Our defense looked terrible in the playoffs, and for the 1st half of the season. We have alot of them, but they just aren't worth much so there won't be much return. Mediocrity will only return different mediocrity. ANd overpriced guys like Hecht and a concussed Pommer with a rehabbing leg aren't gonna move either. It is going to take moving someone with real value to get real value in return.

 

This is the concern I have about going the trade route. Chicago, Pittsburg, Detroit, Anaheim, and Carolina were all built primarily through the draft and FA. When there were trades they were trades to teams looking to free up space. In that case, you can get good players for picks/prospects. So I think our best options for improvement is to #1 sign top free agents, #2 Draft well (trade up if necessary), and #3 trade our "value" players to teams in cap trouble for top talent with a higher pricetag.

[LastPommerFan]

I'm going to hate myself for saying this, but if Pommer doesn't get hurt I think he would be the best trade prospect as far as top for top that we can afford to live without.

 

That said, maybe the injury helped protect the value of my jersey.

[LGR4GM]

it should tell us all something that we have no "talent" on the team except for Miller and Vanek who are the only guys we could trade for better talent. I think our young defense have some more value than we would like to admit. Some teams that are building are looking for the young defenders who could be great and they just want to dump some of their stars to get them and picks. Its gonna be tough no doubt, I think we all agree on that. Of course if we go out and sign Brad Richards and Ehrhoff than this conversation is superfluous and we would have some of the tools in place to win the cup.

[Lanny]

we let briere walk so we could sign drury, not because of spite. If darcy had given Briere his 5mil for 5 years at the begining of the season it would have happend. By the end Briere felt unwanted and decided to take the money and leave. And You dont want players that just want the money. Other teams sign these types of players (stafford types) to cheaper contracts than 5mil. Going to arbitration means that the player is either getting screwed by the GM or that the Player must have more money because 4mil isnt enough to buy that extra car they want. Players do not go to arbitration that often so it would be a failure if drew did and I would rather sign and trade him then or let his punk@ss walk.

So in 2006 when Briere went to arbitration and was awarded $5M the Sabres weren't bitter about it, halting any longer term contract talks? Tim Kennedy didn't go to arbitration and was waived? Dumont?

 

If you don't like the award that is one thing, to do it just because he opted for arbitration, which is his right, is dumb.

[LGR4GM]

How does him utilizing his arbitration right make him a primadonna? Letting an asset walk for nothing based on spite seems wasteful, foolish and similar to the types of moves the team has made in the past (Briere).

 

 

So in 2006 when Briere went to arbitration and was awarded $5M the Sabres weren't bitter about it, halting any longer term contract talks? Tim Kennedy didn't go to arbitration and was waived? Dumont? If you don't like the award that is one thing, to do it just because he opted for arbitration, which is his right, is dumb.

So if I am following your argument, you are saying that the Sabres were mad that Briere took them to arbitration because he was worth more than what they wanted to pay him, and he got 5mil. And that if the sabres got mad at Stafford for wanting a huge a raise for basically no reason, than it would be a similar thing. (I agree the briere thing was horrendous)

 

Now first off I am not saying we should be mad if stafford goes to arbitration. I said if the GM is low balling him than yea he deserves to go there but if its that Stafford thinks he should go from making 1.9mil to making 5mil either A) Sign him and trade him B) let him walk C) get an offer sheet and let him walk... few players deserve a doubling of their salaries and Stafford sure as hell doesnt, Weber might but thats about it.

[Kristian]

I'm ok with this, frees up even more space. Although I would say letting him walk for nothing when you could get a 2nd rounder for his rights would probably be the wrong thing to do.

 

No argument there, I'm just saying that being afraid of letting Stafford walk is something this franchise can ill afford.

[Weave]

No argument there, I'm just saying that being afraid of letting Stafford walk is something this franchise can ill afford.

 

I would be abso-friggin-lutely pissed if they let Stafford get away for nothing. We could've had a 1st rd draft pick for him at the deadline. If he walks now I am convinced that we go nowhere while Darcy is in the seat.

[Kristian]

I would be abso-friggin-lutely pissed if they let Stafford get away for nothing. We could've had a 1st rd draft pick for him at the deadline. If he walks now I am convinced that we go nowhere while Darcy is in the seat.

 

I'd rather he walks for nothing than another dead weight contract.

 

The 1st round pick is news to me, but I can't say I'm surprised that Darcy wants to hold on to his beloved "core", which is why I'm scared to death by the fact that we might see both Stafford and Timmy in Sabres uniforms come October.

 

I'll take Stafford at 2.8 a year at the most. I'm hoping he receives an offer sheet at this point.

 

You could argue that there are players with similar skills and numbers as Stafford making way more money. Unfortunately though, some of these players play for the Sabres too, making overpaying Stafford a crippling move for the rebuilding of the franchise.

[Lanny]

So if I am following your argument, you are saying that the Sabres were mad that Briere took them to arbitration because he was worth more than what they wanted to pay him, and he got 5mil. And that if the sabres got mad at Stafford for wanting a huge a raise for basically no reason, than it would be a similar thing. (I agree the briere thing was horrendous)

 

Now first off I am not saying we should be mad if stafford goes to arbitration. I said if the GM is low balling him than yea he deserves to go there but if its that Stafford thinks he should go from making 1.9mil to making 5mil either A) Sign him and trade him B) let him walk C) get an offer sheet and let him walk... few players deserve a doubling of their salaries and Stafford sure as hell doesnt, Weber might but thats about it.

 

 

I'm saying the Sabres get ragged on for making mistakes in the past regarding players and arbitration, an example of this are the rumors of some of their decisions being based on spite. Which when you said:

Also if stafford is b*tchy and makes this team go to arbitration cuz he thinks hes worth that, than let him walk we have enough premadona problems without his bs.

That is what I thought you were claiming they should do.

 

The arbitration award is only a 1 year contract, the term is just as important as the amount. I'm guessing he'll be looking for a long term extension between $3.5M and $4.5M. But, like you said, if he doesn't get it he has arbitration in his back pocket, which will probably give him closer to $5M for the year.

 

IMO, Stafford is an asset, you don't let him walk for free no matter the award. Obviously working out your own contract is preferable.

[deluca67]

I'd rather he walks for nothing than another dead weight contract.

 

The 1st round pick is news to me, but I can't say I'm surprised that Darcy wants to hold on to his beloved "core", which is why I'm scared to death by the fact that we might see both Stafford and Timmy in Sabres uniforms come October.

 

I'll take Stafford at 2.8 a year at the most. I'm hoping he receives an offer sheet at this point.

 

You could argue that there are players with similar skills and numbers as Stafford making way more money. Unfortunately though, some of these players play for the Sabres too, making overpaying Stafford a crippling move for the rebuilding of the franchise.

I wish you posted more often. :clapping:

[SwampD]

I'd rather he walks for nothing than another dead weight contract.The 1st round pick is news to me, but I can't say I'm surprised that Darcy wants to hold on to his beloved "core", which is why I'm scared to death by the fact that we might see both Stafford and Timmy in Sabres uniforms come October.I'll take Stafford at 2.8 a year at the most. I'm hoping he receives an offer sheet at this point.You could argue that there are players with similar skills and numbers as Stafford making way more money. Unfortunately though, some of these players play for the Sabres too, making overpaying Stafford a crippling move for the rebuilding of the franchise.

 

 

I wish you posted more often. :clapping:

While I normally agree with both of your posts, I have to disagree. I think you are letting the sins of the past cloud your judgment.

 

So, on a team where apparently Miller is the only commodity we have to be able to trade for something of value, you guys want to let a 30+ goal scorer walk for nothing. :blink:

 

This team can't afford to let anything go without some kind of return. They need to squeeze every last bit of value out of every player they have.

[deluca67]

While I normally agree with both of your posts, I have to disagree. I think you are letting the sins of the past cloud your judgment.

 

So, on a team where apparently Miller is the only commodity we have to be able to trade for something of value, you guys want to let a 30+ goal scorer walk for nothing. :blink:

 

This team can't afford to let anything go without some kind of return. They need to squeeze every last bit of value out of every player they have.

Do you really think he will ever get close to that number again? Stafford is a lot like Tim Connolly. You'll end up always chasing and paying for his potential.

[SwampD]

Do you really think he will ever get close to that number again? Stafford is a lot like Tim Connolly. You'll end up always chasing and paying for his potential.

He's only 25. I think that out of necessity, he was moved up to the sacred "core" status too soon and therefore had way too high expectations put on him. I do think he'll hit that mark again. Several times actually. If it's for the Sabres then great, but if it's with someone else then we better have gotten something back for him.

 

And please don't compare him to Connolly. Drew's actually scored 20 goals in a season. :D

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

While nothing was ever reported as to any offers for Stafford at the deadline, Dreager said that Toronto turned down a 1st and 3rd for MacArthur. Draw your own conclusions as to what Stafford was worth at the time.

 

I think connolly would have been resigned if not for this latest concussion. That may have been just enough to get Darcy off the bandwagon for good.

 

I hope he gets an offer sheet or goes to arbitration. I don't mind giving him one year at a big price and making him prove himself every game. This is a dead year anyway with some of those contracts expiring in '12 and '13.

[Kristian]

He's only 25. I think that out of necessity, he was moved up to the sacred "core" status too soon and therefore had way too high expectations put on him. I do think he'll hit that mark again. Several times actually. If it's for the Sabres then great, but if it's with someone else then we better have gotten something back for him.

 

And please don't compare him to Connolly. Drew's actually scored 20 goals in a season. :D

 

I don't disagree that Stafford has talent or potential.

 

The problem is, through deals past, Regier has already dealt himself a bad hand which doesn't allow him much choice in dealing with Stafford.

 

He has several choices, the way I see it :

 

He can try and sign Stafford to a reasonable 1-year deal, which I believe to be somehwere around 2.8 mill. "You had a good year, if you can follow that up, we're willing to give you a much better long-term deal next season".

 

He can trade his rights for something.

 

He can sign him at hopefully something like 4 mill. and deal him immediately.

 

He can sign him at 4-5 mill. and watch him go back to his 40 points a year, and prove nothing has changed.

 

Seriously, the only way I see Stafford progressing, even though he's only 25, is with a much better supporting cast, and he won't be getting that here if we pay him a cent over 3 mill.

 

I've seen his disappearing act too many times to count, most recently against the Cryers. Close the book on this guy already.

[Kristian]

I wish you posted more often. :clapping:

 

I thought you might agree with that one :thumbsup:

 

The really strange thing here is, that the only thing that makes Stafford at more than 3 mill. a bad signing are Pominville, Gaustad, Hecht, and Connolly's conctracts.

 

I'm including Connolly until I see him either signed at 1.2 or wearing another uniform. Till such time, I expect Darcy to offer him 8 mill. for two years, or something even more stupid.

 

Looking at the numbers, taking a chance on a very talented winger coming off a good season at perhaps 4 or 4.5 mill. might be worthwhile, but given the contracts mentioned above, it becomes another ball and chain this franchise simply cannot afford. Literally speaking.

 

It's been said over and over - It's not what you spend, it's who you spend it on, and we've already spent a ton of money on the wrong players.

[deluca67]

He's only 25. I think that out of necessity, he was moved up to the sacred "core" status too soon and therefore had way too high expectations put on him. I do think he'll hit that mark again. Several times actually. If it's for the Sabres then great, but if it's with someone else then we better have gotten something back for him.

 

And please don't compare him to Connolly. Drew's actually scored 20 goals in a season. :D

Would Pomminstein be a better comparison? The Sabres are still waiting for Pominville to return to being the 30+ goal scorer they thought they signed at $5.5 mil a season.

 

IMO, Stafford will always be a guy at about 15-20 goals a season. He had a career year this season during a contract year which isn't that unusual. After watching Stafford play the last five seasons I just don't see a player committed to being the type of player the Sabres need that is worthy of a larger contract. Right now Stafford is a $2.3 which is a bit high for him. The league mandates at least a 10% raise and that is all I would be willing to pay Stafford. $2.53 is still a bit much for a player like Stafford.

[OverPowerYou]

Luongo, Roloson, Niemi, and Thomas. All 4 of them were either A) great once and seem to have found just a little more magic, or B) are good now and will be for awhile. Luongo is in the top 5, Thomas top 2, and Niemi is still young but fighting for his second cup. Look at a host of other teams that didnt even make the playoffs because their goaltending is such garbage that their defense could allow 1 shot a game and they would still lose.

 

You either need an elite goalie to win or you need a goalie thats young and coming into his prime or old but has 1 more run left in him. Trading Miller because we think Enroth will be amazing this offseason is stupid. Next Offseason maybe. If Enroth comes in and plays great than yup lets do it but right now all we know is that teams are still writing the book on the kid.

 

Why dont we trade something we have 40 of like ooo idk DEFENSEMEN. Trade Leopold hes gotta be worth something. What about Sekera? Hes young and was impressive get someone to overpay there. How about Hecht, or 1 of our good RW Pommers (lots of teams would love him srry hes a 60-70pt a season guy and is still younger) or Drew we all think hes worth 5mil so lets trade him an someone else can spend 5 mil on him, Boyes I dont see getting traded unless we get back a little more than the pick we gave up. Butler was bad in the playoffs so trade him. Morrisonn might be worht something to someone with a young def so ditch him.

 

Basically, I have no desire, to be here a year from now, complaining about how we need a goalie because we traded miller for spezza or whoever.

 

 

Agreed. What you need to win in today's NHL is a good goaltender combined with great defense. Just look at all of the previous cup winners. They all had good goaltenders or guys that player amazing in goal while in the playoffs. Even the 4 teams remaining have great D... Buffalo only has the star goalie, but the defense Is only half as good as Bostons/Vancouvers...

[tom webster]

Two questions for all the pessimists; Without looking it up, how many players scored more goals then Drew Stafford and how many forwards had more points then Jason Pominville?

[deluca67]

Two questions for all the pessimists; Without looking it up, how many players scored more goals then Drew Stafford and how many forwards had more points then Jason Pominville?

I had to peek. :rolleyes:

 

Stafford was tied for 21st in goal scoring.

 

Pominville was tied for 81st in points.

 

As has been previous posted, Stafford had a career year. If there was any thought that Stafford could stay at that level of scoring or even bettering that total I wouldn't have any issue with the Sabres paying him. The problem with Stafford is that he doesn't come across as the type of player to make the level of commitment needed. The Sabres are facing a another possible Connolly/Pominville situation.

 

It would be great if Pominville was making $3-$3.5 mil. The problem is that he doesn't. That's another $2 mil to through on the pile of misspent money that could be used to bring in top end talent.