Vanek for Captain

[Taro T]

...

 

All defensemen with a nine foot sticks are difficult to play against so i guess we agree on that point also.I did like the edge that materialized in a couple of the playoff games..

Mike Wilson wasn't.

 

But then again, he was probably the exception that proves the rule. ;)

[...]

 

That said, you don't have to be that kind of captain either, as you can lead by being a game changer. Sakic was like that. But do you consider TV to be the game changer ala Sakic? In my mind, you either have to be the fiery captain, or the one leading by example. TV is closer to the example role but I personally don't think he's there yet.

 

 

I don't disagree with the idealized notions of the character of a NHL captain, although I'm not certain how many teams actually have "ideal" captains.

 

I would absolutely prefer Vanek being the game-changer type of player. The Sabres really don't have someone like that on the roster currently - although Gerbe has shown some potential for that (hence the reason why I keep bringing up his name).

 

But the dude has put in the work, and after this season we know he's not a dud. He apparently can motivate himself, at least, to overcome whatever personal obstacles he had last season.

 

He does publickly take responsibility for himself and the team, and, again, he is one of the consistent voices from the locker room win or lose.

 

The only fiery characters, IMHO, would be Kaleta, again Gerbe, and Myers. I think all of them are too young yet, and, in Kaleta's case, simply not around enough (due to injuries).

[Braedon]

 

But the dude has put in the work, and after this season we know he's not a dud. He apparently can motivate himself, at least, to overcome whatever personal obstacles he had last season.

 

 

 

He's definitely put in the time, and he's showing some signs of leadership. Is it enough to fill the captain role? Who knows, even if it isn't we'll never know if it's a causative factor. But you bring up a good point about the 'ideal' captain. I prefer to look at it as an 'either/or' as it allows me define his character traits and make a decision as to whether or not he fits the mold of a captain. But it's a shot in the dark at best, and I certainly hold no experience in making such a decision.

[Wyldnwoody44]

Well since were talking about lindy, we may just become the only nhl team without a captain....I mean I know the choice is up in the air, but just friggin pick someone, it can be moved around as we've seen before, but I think the main issue is that our staff doesn't trust anyone to be captain and that's more concerning than who the C actually goes to.

[X. Benedict]

I guess we disagree on first pair but thats ok. IMO solid second yes/maybe, first no way.(would other teams like to gamble on his future, absolutely, gambling on potential is what they do)(Will he turn into a Chara , Lindstrom, or Pronger. (Remember Souray was picked above him?)...(my best guess is probably will not turn into a shutdown defensman, few do).(First pair potential,possibly ?) Looks like you see much more in him right now than i do but that is the beauty in the game. Maybe your eye on this one is better. He does have some strong points and great potential, i can agree to that too.

 

Should we both go back to the Philly playoff films and count the give aways, bad decisions , passes and most importantly the time it takes him to make a decision?(Granted that was against a first class forecheck and he is only 22, )But he has a long, long way to go and much to learn.

 

 

All defensemen with a nine foot sticks are difficult to play against so i guess we agree on that point also.I did like the edge that materialized in a couple of the playoff games..

 

 

the kid just started shaving.

 

 

While it is frustrating to watch a kid get trapped in a forecheck, it wasn't entirely his fault.

 

The thing to watch for in a young defensemen is what he does with his first touch when there is a lot of pressure. Myers was very good IMO.

 

As for Pronger and Chara...Myers might be the better skater....as far as strength and stamina, the best is yet to come. Myers endurance is going to get better and better.

 

And you are forgetting that the game is played in 3 zones....Myers was great in the offesive and neutral zone.

 

If there was something better than a first pair, I'd be skating him on that pair.

[waldo]

the kid just started shaving.

 

 

While it is frustrating to watch a kid get trapped in a forecheck, it wasn't entirely his fault.

 

The thing to watch for in a young defensemen is what he does with his first touch when there is a lot of pressure. Myers was very good IMO.

 

As for Pronger and Chara...Myers might be the better skater....as far as strength and stamina, the best is yet to come. Myers endurance is going to get better and better.

 

And you are forgetting that the game is played in 3 zones....Myers was great in the offesive and neutral zone.

 

If there was something better than a first pair, I'd be skating him on that pair.

 

 

If you skate him on your first pair next year it will be goodbye after the first round again i fear. We just have different perceptions but that’s ok. There is no doubt he is going to be an excellent defenseman .I just do not see him developing into one of the shutdown pair the Sabres will need to go deep into the payoffs in the next two or three years. My opinion may change next year as he develops or the year after. When you watch a defenseman under pressure in his own end, even a 22 year old one, and repeatedly see him take the puck to the boards when he should pass and pass when he should go to the boards you question his sense of the game and/or his confidence.(not to be confused with skill) When on top of that you can count to 1003 before he makes a decision when under pressure, that’s a problem especially when the fore check uses the time to double him and take the puck.The problem was most evident against Tampa, Boston, Montreal, and Philly. (All playo ff teams with heavy fore checking and physical games) Will he learn, absolutely. Get better, absolutely. But we will not know how far he goes for three or four years and that is too far out imo..Keep him, yes.Find a pair of ready to go shutdown defensemen, yes. It should be priority one. Pair him with a dominate defenseman/that could be a solution that could accelerate his development. Right now the book says pressure him in his own end and he has not adjusted. I like his speed, size, edge and hands. He does not belong on a the first pp line right imo.Too slow. underdeveloped shooting and passing skills on the pp.He has yet to adjust to the speed of the game in specific situations is what i am trying to say. Common for young players I know.For 22 year olds more common. He is excellent when not under pressure and i am hoping he becomes a Pronger, but that is way far down the road, if it happens at all. I am sure we are boith tired of this discussion right now.

[X. Benedict]

If you skate him on your first pair next year it will be goodbye after the first round again i fear. We just have different perceptions but that’s ok. There is no doubt he is going to be an excellent defenseman .I just do not see him developing into one of the shutdown pair the Sabres will need to go deep into the payoffs in the next two or three years. My opinion may change next year as he develops or the year after. When you watch a defenseman under pressure in his own end, even a 22 year old one, and repeatedly see him take the puck to the boards when he should pass and pass when he should go to the boards you question his sense of the game and/or his confidence.(not to be confused with skill) When on top of that you can count to 1003 before he makes a decision when under pressure, that’s a problem especially when the fore check uses the time to double him and take the puck.The problem was most evident against Tampa, Boston, Montreal, and Philly. (All playo ff teams with heavy fore checking and physical games) Will he learn, absolutely. Get better, absolutely. But we will not know if he does for three or four years and that is too far out..Keep him, yes.Find a pair of ready to go shutdown defensemen, yes. It should be priority one. Pair him with a dominate defenseman/that could be a solution that could accelerate his development. Right now the book says pressure him in his own end and he has not adjusted. I like his speed, size, edge and hands. He does not belong on a the first pp line right now imo..He has yet to adjust to the speed of the game in specific situations is what i am trying to say. Common for young players I know. He is excellent when not under pressure and i am hoping he becomes a Pronger, but that is way far down the road, if it happens at all.

 

I guess I just going to disagree. The kid was just terrific in front of the net in the last few months. Closing lanes, ceiling off attacks, clearing the crease, fronting forwards, moving play to the outside...so much that Philly worked extremely hard to get the puck behind him and tried to pin him behind the net by removing his options and cheating in.... In other words, Philly game-planned him.

 

He really is good.

 

I'll just say, If you could clone 5 more of him, he'd be every pairing. :beer:

[dEnnis the Menace]

I guess I just going to disagree. The kid was just terrific in front of the net in the last few months. Closing lanes, ceiling off attacks, clearing the crease, fronting forwards, moving play to the outside...so much that Philly worked extremely hard to get the puck behind him and tried to pin him behind the net by removing his options and cheating in.... In other words, Philly game-planned him.

 

He really is good.

 

I'll just say, If you could clone 5 more of him, he'd be every pairing. :beer:

 

+1 haha.

 

I agree that he grew to become terrific in front of the net, even getting extra physical during the Philly series. He is my second favorite player right now because of the amount of RAW talent he has (Ennis is my favorite if you couldn't already tell).

 

Philly definitely game planned HIM, and i think you are going to see a lot more teams in the future doing the same thing. The most important thing for him going forward is going to be adjusting to the opposing team, and what they're doing. IDK if that's a coaching thing, or if it's just hockey sense (I never played, I'm just a fan), but either way, learn he must.

[BetweenThePipes00]

the kid just started shaving.

 

While it is frustrating to watch a kid get trapped in a forecheck, it wasn't entirely his fault.

 

The thing to watch for in a young defensemen is what he does with his first touch when there is a lot of pressure. Myers was very good IMO.

 

As for Pronger and Chara...Myers might be the better skater....as far as strength and stamina, the best is yet to come. Myers endurance is going to get better and better.

 

And you are forgetting that the game is played in 3 zones....Myers was great in the offensive and neutral zone.

 

If there was something better than a first pair, I'd be skating him on that pair.

 

THIS.

QFT.

There are simply not enough message board slang ways of saying I AGREE.

 

This getting off the captain track I guess ... but as I said about Vanek, we can nitpick Myers to death because we watch every shift. But he is already a good NHL defenseman ... he's light years ahead of where Chara was at that age. Pronger was pretty good at 21 but he had 4 seasons under his belt at that point. For a more recent comparison, he is way ahead of where Shea Weber was at 21. Weber is great at 25 but it wasn't until he was 23 that he got the kind of minutes that Myers has been getting since the day he arrived, and even then he had his lapses and struggles in his own end.

 

I know "potential" is a dirty and dangerous word, but is there anything about the kid to say he has hit his ceiling? No. He may not ever be Chara or Pronger at their best, but he WILL keep getting better.

 

As far as I am concerned, every decision the Sabres make has to be viewed through the "and remember we have to pay Myers after next season" lens. I am not saying he gets Vanek money as an RFA, but they run that risk if they do not get him signed to a long-term deal of some sort ASAP after July 1.

[beerme1]

You started a topic on a public forum to tell everyone their wrong? LMAO. Wow. Nice dude.

 

I did. I might mention that it was after another dissapointing exit from the playoffs. That dissapointment has only gotten worse seeing how Philly has played. I did it because I kept reading a lot and hearing people talking about Vanek for Captain.

For such a useless thread that some complained about, there has turned out to be a lot of good arguments both for and against TV for C. I remain against it.

Last time Ruff let the team decide. I wont knock Rivet as far as his Captain ability. I actually hope we pick up a star and Lindy says this guy is who you all should try to follow and names him Captain. Who is that? Dont know he's not here yet. Iginla? If it is to be someone on the team, let it be Derek Roy! :w00t:

[dEnnis the Menace]

I did. I might mention that it was after another dissapointing exit from the playoffs. That dissapointment has only gotten worse seeing how Philly has played. I did it because I kept reading a lot and hearing people talking about Vanek for Captain.

For such a useless thread that some complained about, there has turned out to be a lot of good arguments both for and against TV for C. I remain against it.

Last time Ruff let the team decide. I wont knock Rivet as far as his Captain ability. I actually hope we pick up a star and Lindy says this guy is who you all should try to follow and names him Captain. Who is that? Dont know he's not here yet. Iginla? If it is to be someone on the team, let it be Derek Roy! :w00t:

 

I can't find the link ANYWHERE right now, but Lindy was already quoted as saying that TV showed a great deal of leadership, and at risk of misquoting I will not go further. But I'm pretty sure that Lindy now views this as Vanek's team to lose.

 

I honestly wouldn't mind seeing co-captains again, as I think that worked well for Drury and Briere. One was more vocal, one was more example leading. In my opinion, it should be Vanek and Goose. Vanek isn't as clutch as Drury or Briere were/are (for the latter), but he still continues to lead this team in points, and look at the record for the Sabres when Vanek scores, and it gets even better when he records muiltple points. Goose is more vocal, but he's also the tough kind of guy that sticks up for his teammates too.

 

I think Myers and pommers should wear the A's. That's my story and I'm stickin to it...

[TheChimp]

The more I think about this, the clearer it becomes to me that Vanek, if he actually WANTED to wear the "C" on his sweater, would have received that honor already.