The Philly series was a microcosm of Miller's career

[apuszczalowski]

I dont post near as much as I use to but I still read here every day. My opinion on Miller is he is a very good goalie at times and very average at others. I dont mind him being our goalie, however I have a hard time rooting for him due to no fault of anything he does, I have a hard time rooting for him becasue he is our highest paid player and I think we can spend the cap room in alot better places and get better production with those dollars consumed by his salary...Just my 2 cents

Is Vanek no longer here? Unless you missed it, he is our highest paid player and people are tripping over themselves to be the one to pin the 'C' on his jersey

[LGR4GM]

I honestly cant believe after seeing what golies have survived this year we are even having the lets trade miller talk still. Niemi (won a stanley cup) Luongo, Thomas (will win his second vezina), Roloson, and sure lets include howard. You dont see the bobrovsky or neuvirths making it past the opening rounds and if you look at all the teams that made it there are few exceptions (chicago maybe?) of teams that had cruddy gt even reaching the playoffs. Someone a while back figure out the sabres spend half as much on defense as other teams so theres your problem. Ditching miller is just so stupid. If Enroth doesnt play this year we do not have this conversation. TC 4.5mil, Griere 1.5, Hecht 3.5, Morrisonn 2, and our long list of RW wings = 11.2mil before we resign drew. Defense and centers will fix our problems not trading miller. Also there are a bunch of UFA def we could get that would fix our problems as well. Lets go get Ehrhoff and Kaberle/bieksa and then worry about how we are going to trade for a center. This summer we could argue we will have 13 draft picks in the next year to trade (6 this summer, 7 next) so theres leverage there.

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

I honestly cant believe after seeing what golies have survived this year we are even having the lets trade miller talk still. Niemi (won a stanley cup) Luongo, Thomas (will win his second vezina), Roloson, and sure lets include howard. You dont see the bobrovsky or neuvirths making it past the opening rounds and if you look at all the teams that made it there are few exceptions (chicago maybe?) of teams that had cruddy gt even reaching the playoffs. Someone a while back figure out the sabres spend half as much on defense as other teams so theres your problem. Ditching miller is just so stupid. If Enroth doesnt play this year we do not have this conversation. TC 4.5mil, Griere 1.5, Hecht 3.5, Morrisonn 2, and our long list of RW wings = 11.2mil before we resign drew. Defense and centers will fix our problems not trading miller. Also there are a bunch of UFA def we could get that would fix our problems as well. Lets go get Ehrhoff and Kaberle/bieksa and then worry about how we are going to trade for a center. This summer we could argue we will have 13 draft picks in the next year to trade (6 this summer, 7 next) so theres leverage there.

I'm inclined to agree, enroths 9 games this season are no gauge for how he would perform through a full regular season. I did however, like what i saw.

[stenbaro]

Don't forget Vanek.I'm actually thinking Darcy should be calling Philly today and shop Miller.

 

Drop some salary and Philly has some young forwards I wouldn't mind seeing here.

 

 

Is Vanek no longer here? Unless you missed it, he is our highest paid player and people are tripping over themselves to be the one to pin the 'C' on his jersey

I subconsciously erased him to prove my point and u two caught me:)Just kidding... No I forgot about him. regardless if you could trade both of them and revamp your team with the right kind of players I am all for that also...They are both of the same kind of mold , when Hot they can win games when cold they arent worth squat,when neither is working you lose game seven of a playoff series. When one is you might win 1-0 or lose 5-3..

[LGR4GM]

I subconsciously erased him to prove my point and u two caught me:)Just kidding... No I forgot about him. regardless if you could trade both of them and revamp your team with the right kind of players I am all for that also...They are both of the same kind of mold , when Hot they can win games when cold they arent worth squat,when neither is working you lose game seven of a playoff series. When one is you might win 1-0 or lose 5-3..

Yes ryan miller cost us game seven. He definately was not the only sabre player to show up. he def wasnt the guy who got us 2 of our 3 wins in series by being perfect, he def wasnt the guy who owned briere in game 5 and held on for us to win in OT, RYan Miller is so bad i would trade him for a philly cheese steak or a deep dish pizza in a heart beat... :censored:

[DR HOLLIDAY]

I subconsciously erased him to prove my point and u two caught me:)Just kidding... No I forgot about him. regardless if you could trade both of them and revamp your team with the right kind of players I am all for that also...They are both of the same kind of mold , when Hot they can win games when cold they arent worth squat,when neither is working you lose game seven of a playoff series. When one is you might win 1-0 or lose 5-3..

 

Sorry dude, but Miller was the only Sabre that showed up to play that game.

[X. Benedict]

Yes ryan miller cost us game seven. He definately was not the only sabre player to show up. he def wasnt the guy who got us 2 of our 3 wins in series by being perfect, he def wasnt the guy who owned briere in game 5 and held on for us to win in OT, RYan Miller is so bad i would trade him for a philly cheese steak or a deep dish pizza in a heart beat... :censored:

 

 

I see it differently....Miller kept Buffalo in the game for the first 30 minutes. It could have easily been 5-0 after the first period.

[DR HOLLIDAY]

I see it differently....Miller kept Buffalo in the game for the first 30 minutes. It could have easily been 5-0 after the first period.

 

I think he was being sarcastic........I think......... :beer:

[LGR4GM]

I see it differently....Miller kept Buffalo in the game for the first 30 minutes. It could have easily been 5-0 after the first period.

 

 

I think he was being sarcastic........I think......... :beer:

I was being as sarcastic as possible because I called the lets blame miller thread just after the 1st period of the infamous game 7, but people seem to think we should trade miller for a box of cupcakes made by Harry freaking Potter so ya know...

[X. Benedict]

I was being as sarcastic as possible because I called the lets blame miller thread just after the 1st period of the infamous game 7, but people seem to think we should trade miller for a box of cupcakes made by Harry freaking Potter so ya know...

 

I was wondering about the irony......wasn't quite sure. :)

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

I subconsciously erased him to prove my point and u two caught me:)Just kidding... No I forgot about him. regardless if you could trade both of them and revamp your team with the right kind of players I am all for that also...They are both of the same kind of mold , when Hot they can win games when cold they arent worth squat,when neither is working you lose game seven of a playoff series. When one is you might win 1-0 or lose 5-3..

 

I want you to give me teams. Not just one. I want teams, who have traded away the closest players they have to "stars" and used the money to fill with lesser players, who have gotten better because of it. So what if we overpay Miller by about .6 million? or Vanek by 1? We could've let Vanek walk to Edmonton, but then you would be up in arms over how Darcey let Briere, Drury, AND Vanek walk that one fateful summer.

 

Are we pressed up against the Cap? no. Do we have players who make more than they should and contribute less than Vanek or Miller? yes.

 

It's not an issue. We have room to grow in the cap, and other players who are actually expendable.

 

Connolly's salary, Hecht's salary, Morrisonn... need i go on? Just because Vanek and Miller make more money does not make them more expendable. you need to drop the dead weight, not the guys who regularly make a difference. If you use the salary cleared up by the DEAD WEIGHT to sign a better supporting cast, Vanek's numbers will be better, and so will Millers.

 

It's really incredible vanek has put up the numbers he has when you consider he's literally our only premiere forward. How easy do you think it is to defend a team that only has one truely prolific scorer? Philly was a force in the regular season because of their offensive depth, same with tampa and Vancouver. You put your top two D men on the sedin twins? that's fine and dandy, but here comes Kesler. You put your top two on Stamkos and St. Lois? here comes lecavalier. You got Richards and carter covered, F**K we forgot about Briere and Giroux.

 

The point is we need MORE scoring, and the defense to mature. The same pattern i noted above is seen even with the 06-07 sabres. 3 solid scoring lines with Briere on one, Vanek on another, and Drury on another, is borderline impossible to stop. One star forward and one star goalie will not win you a Stanley Cup. We need to add skill, not take it away.

[Stormin Norman]

I want you to give me teams. Not just one. I want teams, who have traded away the closest players they have to "stars" and used the money to fill with lesser players, who have gotten better because of it. So what if we overpay Miller by about .6 million? or Vanek by 1? We could've let Vanek walk to Edmonton, but then you would be up in arms over how Darcey let Briere, Drury, AND Vanek walk that one fateful summer.

 

Are we pressed up against the Cap? no. Do we have players who make more than they should and contribute less than Vanek or Miller? yes.

 

It's not an issue. We have room to grow in the cap, and other players who are actually expendable.

 

Connolly's salary, Hecht's salary, Morrisonn... need i go on? Just because Vanek and Miller make more money does not make them more expendable. you need to drop the dead weight, not the guys who regularly make a difference. If you use the salary cleared up by the DEAD WEIGHT to sign a better supporting cast, Vanek's numbers will be better, and so will Millers.

 

It's really incredible vanek has put up the numbers he has when you consider he's literally our only premiere forward. How easy do you think it is to defend a team that only has one truely prolific scorer? Philly was a force in the regular season because of their offensive depth, same with tampa and Vancouver. You put your top two D men on the sedin twins? that's fine and dandy, but here comes Kesler. You put your top two on Stamkos and St. Lois? here comes lecavalier. You got Richards and carter covered, F**K we forgot about Briere and Giroux.

 

The point is we need MORE scoring, and the defense to mature. The same pattern i noted above is seen even with the 06-07 sabres. 3 solid scoring lines with Briere on one, Vanek on another, and Drury on another, is borderline impossible to stop. One star forward and one star goalie will not win you a Stanley Cup. We need to add skill, not take it away.

This, sir, is one of the best posts I have read to date. You are spot on. It can easily be argued that had we retained either Briere or Drury and gotten rid of some of the dead weight, the Philly series has a different outcome. Who knew Boyes would disappear on top of it? (The team that let him go, that's who). Bottom line: not enough finishers on offense and more experience needed on defense.

 

I'm still proud of the effort, though. Great post!

[dEnnis the Menace]

I want you to give me teams. Not just one. I want teams, who have traded away the closest players they have to "stars" and used the money to fill with lesser players, who have gotten better because of it. So what if we overpay Miller by about .6 million? or Vanek by 1? We could've let Vanek walk to Edmonton, but then you would be up in arms over how Darcey let Briere, Drury, AND Vanek walk that one fateful summer.

 

Are we pressed up against the Cap? no. Do we have players who make more than they should and contribute less than Vanek or Miller? yes.

 

It's not an issue. We have room to grow in the cap, and other players who are actually expendable.

 

Connolly's salary, Hecht's salary, Morrisonn... need i go on? Just because Vanek and Miller make more money does not make them more expendable. you need to drop the dead weight, not the guys who regularly make a difference. If you use the salary cleared up by the DEAD WEIGHT to sign a better supporting cast, Vanek's numbers will be better, and so will Millers.

 

It's really incredible vanek has put up the numbers he has when you consider he's literally our only premiere forward. How easy do you think it is to defend a team that only has one truely prolific scorer? Philly was a force in the regular season because of their offensive depth, same with tampa and Vancouver. You put your top two D men on the sedin twins? that's fine and dandy, but here comes Kesler. You put your top two on Stamkos and St. Lois? here comes lecavalier. You got Richards and carter covered, F**K we forgot about Briere and Giroux.

 

The point is we need MORE scoring, and the defense to mature. The same pattern i noted above is seen even with the 06-07 sabres. 3 solid scoring lines with Briere on one, Vanek on another, and Drury on another, is borderline impossible to stop. One star forward and one star goalie will not win you a Stanley Cup. We need to add skill, not take it away.

 

+1 This about sums up everything I was thinking. I just couldn't sort it out as well as you :beer:

[deluca67]

the closest players they have to "stars" and used the money to fill with lesser players,

There is a lot of truth in this. You never get better by trading for lessor players. You improve by trading for better players. Miller and Vanek are "the closest players they have to stars" and certainly get paid like it. Unfortunately neither have lived up to their salaries. In a salary cap league that just can't be ignored. Vanek is a talented goal scorer but is far from a dominate offensive force worthy of his current salary. Miller is a luxury at this point. IMO, they can do better without Miller as long as they use his cap space wisely.

 

It's not a either or proposition. You can move Vanek and/or Miller and still trim the dead weight like Connolly, Hecht and Gaustad off of the roster. The Sabres also have some value in Roy and (thanks to a 30 game stretch) Stafford that the Sabres can use as well if they are serious about the Stanley Cup being the only focus of this franchise. It's one thing for Terry Pegula to say it. It is another thing to get Regier to act on it and actually complete the deals.

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

 

It's not a either or proposition. You can move Vanek and/or Miller and still trim the dead weight like Connolly, Hecht and Gaustad off of the roster. The Sabres also have some value in Roy and (thanks to a 30 game stretch) Stafford that the Sabres can use as well if they are serious about the Stanley Cup being the only focus of this franchise. It's one thing for Terry Pegula to say it. It is another thing to get Regier to act on it and actually complete the deals.

 

The thing is, if we went through with this we'd be changing the face of the franchise completey. I'd rather get rid of the dead weight first. Like i said previously, the "excess" that we give to miller and vanek, isn't really that big of a deal, under 2 million in my opinion, and there are other areas to free up cap space to sign new players, other than their salaries (Miller and Vanek) in particular.

 

If and when we have a team of try-hards and Vanek and Miller still aren't putting up the numbers we'd like to see, I'd definitely consider moving them, but I'm of the opinion that good players make other good players better.

 

My point is, when we get rid of the dead weight and actually sign solid players, I really do not think you'll want to trade either Miller or Vanek.

[Weave]

The thing is, if we went through with this we'd be changing the face of the franchise completey. I'd rather get rid of the dead weight first. Like i said previously, the "excess" that we give to miller and vanek, isn't really that big of a deal, under 2 million in my opinion, and there are other areas to free up cap space to sign new players, other than their salaries (Miller and Vanek) in particular.

 

If and when we have a team of try-hards and Vanek and Miller still aren't putting up the numbers we'd like to see, I'd definitely consider moving them, but I'm of the opinion that good players make other good players better.

 

My point is, when we get rid of the dead weight and actually sign solid players, I really do not think you'll want to trade either Miller or Vanek.

 

This is well stated. And I like the premise, improve the team around Vanek and Miller and if their performance doesn't improve, move them afterwards.

[X. Benedict]

There is a lot of truth in this. You never get better by trading for lessor players. You improve by trading for better players. Miller and Vanek are "the closest players they have to stars" and certainly get paid like it. Unfortunately neither have lived up to their salaries. In a salary cap league that just can't be ignored. Vanek is a talented goal scorer but is far from a dominate offensive force worthy of his current salary. Miller is a luxury at this point. IMO, they can do better without Miller as long as they use his cap space wisely.

 

It's not a either or proposition. You can move Vanek and/or Miller and still trim the dead weight like Connolly, Hecht and Gaustad off of the roster. The Sabres also have some value in Roy and (thanks to a 30 game stretch) Stafford that the Sabres can use as well if they are serious about the Stanley Cup being the only focus of this franchise. It's one thing for Terry Pegula to say it. It is another thing to get Regier to act on it and actually complete the deals.

 

Miller is a luxury? Vanek underpreforms? Gaustad is dead weight? ...You have a really strange formula and eye for valuation.

[deluca67]

Miller is a luxury? Vanek underpreforms? Gaustad is dead weight? ...You have a really strange formula and eye for valuation.

Miller got beat by a goalie making less than a million and that gave gave the Sabres goals. Vanek is a goal scorer that rarely dominates games and Gaustad is a 6'4" face-off specialist. That is pretty "spot-on" as they say.

[shrader]

There is a lot of truth in this. You never get better by trading for lessor players. You improve by trading for better players. Miller and Vanek are "the closest players they have to stars" and certainly get paid like it. Unfortunately neither have lived up to their salaries. In a salary cap league that just can't be ignored. Vanek is a talented goal scorer but is far from a dominate offensive force worthy of his current salary. Miller is a luxury at this point. IMO, they can do better without Miller as long as they use his cap space wisely.

 

Vanek was definitely never worth the inflated first two years of his contract. I can't say the same about the $6.4 million he's making for every remaining year of that contract. The cap hit is slightly higher, and I know you're going to point to that as the true measure of his cost, but I would still say that it isn't too far out of line.

[LGR4GM]

There is a lot of truth in this. You never get better by trading for lessor players. You improve by trading for better players. Miller and Vanek are "the closest players they have to stars" and certainly get paid like it. Unfortunately neither have lived up to their salaries. In a salary cap league that just can't be ignored. Vanek is a talented goal scorer but is far from a dominate offensive force worthy of his current salary. Miller is a luxury at this point. IMO, they can do better without Miller as long as they use his cap space wisely.

 

It's not a either or proposition. You can move Vanek and/or Miller and still trim the dead weight like Connolly, Hecht and Gaustad off of the roster. The Sabres also have some value in Roy and (thanks to a 30 game stretch) Stafford that the Sabres can use as well if they are serious about the Stanley Cup being the only focus of this franchise. It's one thing for Terry Pegula to say it. It is another thing to get Regier to act on it and actually complete the deals.

HOLD UP. You want to have a fire sale and trade Vanek, Miller, Roy, Hecht, Gaustad, and Stafford off this team because it will help make us better at winning the stanley cup? :blink: And how do you plan to replace 3 of our top 6 forwards both of our top 2 centers (right now) and our franchise goaltender? You couldnt trade them to get their replacements and fa doesnt have that many good forwards so...? Give me a plan otherwise I see no logic in panicking because we got overpowered by philly and lost in the first round of the playoffs with 4 rookie defenders, 1 sophmore defender, and 1 vet. Not to mention Roy played 1 game that series so hes kinda off the hook. You also want to get rid of the only faceoff guy on this team who is on average around 60% because he is "over payed" at a whopping 2.3mil... I just dont understand

[deluca67]

The thing is, if we went through with this we'd be changing the face of the franchise completey. I'd rather get rid of the dead weight first. Like i said previously, the "excess" that we give to miller and vanek, isn't really that big of a deal, under 2 million in my opinion, and there are other areas to free up cap space to sign new players, other than their salaries (Miller and Vanek) in particular.

 

If and when we have a team of try-hards and Vanek and Miller still aren't putting up the numbers we'd like to see, I'd definitely consider moving them, but I'm of the opinion that good players make other good players better.

 

My point is, when we get rid of the dead weight and actually sign solid players, I really do not think you'll want to trade either Miller or Vanek.

You do realize that what you proposing is pretty much (not exactly, but close) Regier's philosophy. Identify a core group and rotate the players in and out of the bottom of the roster. That has not worked. If this team is going to turn it around and become a serious Cup contender they need to divorce themselves from the Regierian way of thinking. It may take a bigger move involving "the face of the franchise" to get that done.

[deluca67]

HOLD UP. You want to have a fire sale and trade Vanek, Miller, Roy, Hecht, Gaustad, and Stafford off this team because it will help make us better at winning the stanley cup? :blink: And how do you plan to replace 3 of our top 6 forwards both of our top 2 centers (right now) and our franchise goaltender? You couldnt trade them to get their replacements and fa doesnt have that many good forwards so...? Give me a plan otherwise I see no logic in panicking because we got overpowered by philly and lost in the first round of the playoffs with 4 rookie defenders, 1 sophmore defender, and 1 vet. Not to mention Roy played 1 game that series so hes kinda off the hook. You also want to get rid of the only faceoff guy on this team who is on average around 60% because he is "over payed" at a whopping 2.3mil... I just dont understand

"Our top 6 forwards", "our top 2 centers" and "our franchise goalie" have won exactly what? Just because they are "ours" doesn't make them close to being good enough. It is going to take more than a new rug to get things done. Holding on to the Status Quo is not going to move this team forward. It may take a couple of off-seasons to remove the dead weight from the roster considering there is as much dead weight at the top of the roster as there is at the bottom. It has to be done or things will simply remain the same.

[LGR4GM]

Ryan Miller is one of the worst Goalies in the NHL. He has never won anything! He couldnt even win a gold medal when he was on the best team and facing a horrendous underdog in team canada. I remember how he was terrible in both of those shutouts he got this year in the playoffs and only won because his defense allowed no shots that were right in close. Remember how bad he was in that game 5? Idk how this guy won a vezina he couldnt make a save to save his life. We should trade him for whatever we can get. He has no value outside of buffalo, no one even knows who he is. Maybe some team who is desperate will get him for help. I bet if we are lucky we could get a 5th round draft pick for him. All and all I would say that ryan miller is the biggest waste of cap space on this team and we should be happy we dont have guys like hecht, morrisonn, tc, grier, nieds, boyes maybe even taking up valuable cap space. DOWN WITH MILLER!!! :wallbash: :censored: :wallbash: :censored: :wallbash:

[LGR4GM]

"Our top 6 forwards", "our top 2 centers" and "our franchise goalie" have won exactly what? Just because they are "ours" doesn't make them close to being good enough. It is going to take more than a new rug to get things done. Holding on to the Status Quo is not going to move this team forward. It may take a couple of off-seasons to remove the dead weight from the roster considering there is as much dead weight at the top of the roster as there is at the bottom. It has to be done or things will simply remain the same.

I dont want the status quo. I wanna see hecht go away and one of rw gone and morriosnn bye bye but ditching our only center and our franchise gt is retarded. Srry but you can not measure the team based solely off the stanley cup otherwise every single sabres team in franchise history has sucked. O and Miller won us a Presidents Trophy and a Vezina and a Silver medal.

[X. Benedict]

Miller got beat by a goalie making less than a million and that gave gave the Sabres goals. Vanek is a goal scorer that rarely dominates games and Gaustad is a 6'4" face-off specialist. That is pretty "spot-on" as they say.

 

 

But who are your comparables?