The Bottom Line

[deluca67]

:)

 

I guess it is to be expected. Coaches are looking at forming and matching lines, while fans see individual players.

 

At HSBC in the third period in game 6 I was dizzy with the idea that Buffalo might be able to put Philly away with all the individual talent on on Philly's roster...... It crossed my mind that Laviolette was one goal away from getting fired.

No way should this series have been close looking at individual matchups.....

Was it really that close of a series? Considering the gifts the Flyers goalies gave up.

[Assquatch]

Was it really that close of a series? Considering the gifts the Flyers goalies gave up.

 

Those don't count?

[Claude_Verret]

Was it really that close of a series? Considering the gifts the Flyers goalies gave up.

 

When you take away the cheap goals of course this series is likely over in 5 games, but then again you tend to give up cheap goals when you have cheap talent manning the pipes for you. Go figure. All that talent and it will remain their achilles heel going forward.

[X. Benedict]

Was it really that close of a series? Considering the gifts the Flyers goalies gave up.

 

:blink:

 

They count all the goals that go in.

 

How do you come any closer to the brink of elimination than the Flyers did?

[SDS]

Was it really that close of a series? Considering the gifts the Flyers goalies gave up.

 

Fine, take away our gift turnovers then. Chris Butler wrapped more than a few of those gifts himself.

[deluca67]

:blink:

 

They count all the goals that go in.

 

How do you come any closer to the brink of elimination than the Flyers did?

The Sabres were up on the Flyers but were never clearly the better team at any point. They were handed big leads and failed to hold on. In the end, the talent of the Flyers was too much for the Sabres.

[deluca67]

Fine, take away our gift turnovers then. Chris Butler wrapped more than a few of those gifts himself.

I can see Butler going the way of Kalinin.

[spndnchz]

[/b]

Your thought actually makes it worse. Vanek was a minus 7 in 87:39 of even strength time.

So you'd rather have Boyes at a -2? Your man Kovy ain't too great with +/- either. Less points, worse +/-, more money. And don't give me a salary cap argument, that contract's a joke.

 

Was it really that close of a series? Considering the gifts the Flyers goalies gave up.

 

But you don't need expensive goalies right? Just three. Well make that two and one that goes AWOL.

[X. Benedict]

The Sabres were up on the Flyers but were never clearly the better team at any point. They were handed big leads and failed to hold on. In the end, the talent of the Flyers was too much for the Sabres.

That I don't disagree with....(although they worked for those leads too)

 

The Sabres never had the better talent....but they nearly proved to be the better team.

 

That's what I love about hockey. The best hockey teams are always greater than the sum of their parts.

[SDS]

:)

 

I guess it is to be expected. Coaches are looking at forming and matching lines, while fans see individual players.

 

At HSBC in the third period in game 6 I was dizzy with the idea that Buffalo might be able to put Philly away with all the individual talent on on Philly's roster...... It crossed my mind that Laviolette was one goal away from getting fired.

 

No way should this series have been close looking at individual matchups.....

 

Here’s an analogy…

 

Most hockey fans are like the players at the beginning of “Miracle”. High fiving each other after those end-to-end rushes in practice, but they are cross-eyed confused when Coach Brooks starts talking about flow, puck support, moving to open ice, creating options, etc…

 

Briere did next to nothing in his defensive zone this series, nor was he particularly noticeable in breakouts or up the ice rushes. His corner work in the offensive zone was on par with anyone else's. But he receives a slap pass from Richards at the point and scores. He receives two passes from players winning battles behind the net and scores. And somehow he is the best player? :blink:

 

Kudos to him for burying his chances, but holy cow, to not see the teamwork it takes in order to create those chances is mindboggling.

[Assquatch]

Simile

[Robviously]

You have to consider the incredibly myopic analyses of the average hockey fan. Do you really think NF is thinking about linemates when he's jumping up and down when Briere scores? No, he just runs around in his orange jersey on with his pointer finger in the air yelling "See! I told ya so!"

 

As LastPommerFan posted earlier, and should be incredibly obvious to anyone who decides to think even casually about the situation - Briere just stood around the net and MAGICALLY had the puck put on his stick for him to score those goals.

 

Gee, I wonder how those pucks got there? :rolleyes: Perhaps a teammate or two? A different offensive system? Does anyone not think that if Vanek is fed puck after puck down low like that - time after time after time - that he wouldn't score those same goals? He had 5 goals to Briere's 6 goals with 25% of the chances. Yet people dump on Vanek for what? Not going coast to coast? Briere is better because he stands behind the net and Vanek stands in front, yet have almost the same stats? Good grief.

Don't forget that the Vanek/Briere comparison always requires some statement about "rising to the occasion" or "playoff hockey" or "getting it done" -- basically something vague that implies Vanek doesn't care as much as Briere or can't handle playoff pressure for some reason (despite the lack of evidence of either).

 

The important thing to remember is that the Sabres were eliminated from the playoffs last night so our number one priority today should be doing everything we can to tear down our own players. <_<

[X. Benedict]

Here’s an analogy…

 

Most hockey fans are like the players at the beginning of “Miracle”. High fiving each other after those end-to-end rushes in practice, but they are cross-eyed confused when Coach Brooks starts talking about flow, puck support, moving to open ice, creating options, etc…

 

Briere did next to nothing in his defensive zone this series, nor was he particularly noticeable in breakouts or up the ice rushes. His corner work in the offensive zone was on par with anyone else's. But he receives a slap pass from Richards at the point and scores. He receives two passes from players winning battles behind the net and scores. And somehow he is the best player? :blink:

 

Kudos to him for burying his chances, but holy cow, to not see the teamwork it takes in order to create those chances is mindboggling.

 

:lol: You have to give Briere credit for going to net and finding the spots...his head is always in the game. And he uses his line-mates.

 

I'd love to talk to Paul Gaustad about all the antics Briere pulled in this series to get him thrown out of the faceoff circle.

The best being skating into Myers and doing a backflip to get Gaustad thrown out. :lol:

 

Spearing behind the play. The diving. Running Niedermeyer. Briere is absolutely shameless. (and a media ######.)

 

I, for one, am long over 2007.

[X. Benedict]

Don't forget that the Vanek/Briere comparison always requires some statement about "rising to the occasion" or "playoff hockey" or "getting it done" -- basically something vague that implies Vanek doesn't care as much as Briere or can't handle playoff pressure for some reason (despite the lack of evidence of either).

 

The important thing to remember is that the Sabres were eliminated from the playoffs last night so our number one priority today should be doing everything we can to tear down our own players. <_<

 

I actually think Vanek had his best year.

[dEnnis the Menace]

:lol: You have to give Briere credit for going to net and finding the spots...his head is always in the game. And he uses his line-mates.

 

I'd love to talk to Paul Gaustad about all the antics Briere pulled in this series to get him thrown out of the faceoff circle.

The best being skating into Myers and doing a backflip to get Gaustad thrown out. :lol:

 

Spearing behind the play. The diving. Running Niedermeyer. Briere is absolutely shameless. (and a media ######.)

 

I, for one, am long over 2007.

 

I for think we gave him the spot. My sister and her boyfriend hadn't watch any games prior to 7 due to them being blacked out. I told them to watch Briere and how he is left all alone behind the net. They thought I was a genius or something. :doh:

 

Point is, everyone knew that he was going to be there, at least anyone who watched the last 6 games! We made him look good, and his teammates passing it down to him made him look even better!

 

I for one, am over him. I am mildly optimistic about this summer, and have no idea what I am going to do without Sabres hockey for a while (I think I'm going to cheer for Vancouver for a little while honestly)...I feel like Brian Regan: "it's a cup, with dirt in it...Give me an F, and Move on!"

[nfreeman]

It's all about timing and being able to recognize opportunities when they present themselves. That is a big criticism of Regier. He has been too busy writing love letters to his own players to seriously consider any of the top end talent that was made available over the past few seasons.

 

What may hurt the Sabres this off-season is a lack of top end quality talent being available.

It's quite likely that he was effectively prevented by his bosses from pursuing any of these players by, for example, a prohibition on contracts above a certain total dollar value. We'll have a much better idea this summer.

 

Consider organizational depth here, and switch the two....

 

If Vanek gets to play on Philly's third line (as Briere does) against Buffalo's third pairing....how does he look?

Briere was second among Flyer forwards with 106:30 of even strength ice time and 19:20 minutes per game total. I don't think that constitutes third line minutes.

Beat me to it.

 

You think Vanek would produce more with Hartnell and Leino as lien mates?

 

I'm not the world's biggest Briere fan. As players go who can take over games offensively Briere is well above Vanek in that regards.

There we go.

 

You have to consider the incredibly myopic analyses of the average hockey fan. Do you really think NF is thinking about linemates when he's jumping up and down when Briere scores? No, he just runs around in his orange jersey on with his pointer finger in the air yelling "See! I told ya so!"

 

As LastPommerFan posted earlier, and should be incredibly obvious to anyone who decides to think even casually about the situation - Briere just stood around the net and MAGICALLY had the puck put on his stick for him to score those goals.

 

Gee, I wonder how those pucks got there? :rolleyes: Perhaps a teammate or two? A different offensive system? Does anyone not think that if Vanek is fed puck after puck down low like that - time after time after time - that he wouldn't score those same goals? He had 5 goals to Briere's 6 goals with 25% of the chances. Yet people dump on Vanek for what? Not going coast to coast? Briere is better because he stands behind the net and Vanek stands in front, yet have almost the same stats? Good grief.

Don't forget that the Vanek/Briere comparison always requires some statement about "rising to the occasion" or "playoff hockey" or "getting it done" -- basically something vague that implies Vanek doesn't care as much as Briere or can't handle playoff pressure for some reason (despite the lack of evidence of either).

 

The important thing to remember is that the Sabres were eliminated from the playoffs last night so our number one priority today should be doing everything we can to tear down our own players. <_<

Lovely to see that you 2 have infected another thread with this meme.

 

For the last time: of course it helps Briere's stats that he plays on a better team than Vanek. That doesn't mean Vanek is as good as Briere. And if you think all Briere does is stand in front of the net, wait for the puck to magically appear on his stick and then convert, I don't know what to say other than his coach feels like he contributes enough to give him the 2nd-most minutes out of any forward. Finally, I'm not interested in "tearing down" Vanek. I posted several times that he's a good player.

 

I'm done with this particular discussion. You want the last word, or you want to think I wanted Philly to win or for Briere to score, or to take other gratuitous shots at me (which I refrained from reciprocating, BTW) -- be my guest.

[Robviously]

Lovely to see that you 2 have infected another thread with this meme.

 

For the last time: of course it helps Briere's stats that he plays on a better team than Vanek. That doesn't mean Vanek is as good as Briere. And if you think all Briere does is stand in front of the net, wait for the puck to magically appear on his stick and then convert, I don't know what to say other than his coach feels like he contributes enough to give him the 2nd-most minutes out of any forward. Finally, I'm not interested in "tearing down" Vanek. I posted several times that he's a good player.

 

I'm done with this particular discussion. You want the last word, or you want to think I wanted Philly to win or for Briere to score, or to take other gratuitous shots at me (which I refrained from reciprocating, BTW) -- be my guest.

Thanks, here goes: NO ONE is saying that "all Briere does is stand in front of the net, wait for the puck to magically appear on his stick and convert." But the puck DOES appear on his stick because his linemates get it to him when he goes to the net. That's a benefit of playing with better players.

 

Another benefit is that the other team's players can't lock on to you exclusively because you have other good teammates on the ice that they have to worry about.

 

A third benefit is that you won't always be going up against their best defensive pair all series long because there are other quality players on other lines to worry about.

 

Vanek finished tied for 15th in the NHL in points after spending most of the season being centered by Hecht or Connolly.

 

Vanek is the better player. The end.

[X. Benedict]

 

 

For the last time: of course it helps Briere's stats that he plays on a better team than Vanek. That doesn't mean Vanek is as good as Briere. And if you think all Briere does is stand in front of the net, wait for the puck to magically appear on his stick and then convert, I don't know what to say other than his coach feels like he contributes enough to give him the 2nd-most minutes out of any forward. Finally, I'm not interested in "tearing down" Vanek. I posted several times that he's a good player.

 

I'm done with this particular discussion. You want the last word, or you want to think I wanted Philly to win or for Briere to score, or to take other gratuitous shots at me (which I refrained from reciprocating, BTW) -- be my guest.

 

without talking anyone up or down....just a pedantic point, usually the D men with the most minutes are the first pair...but correlating time on ice with forward lines is a little trickier....I'm pretty sure Gaustad probably led the Sabres fowards in ice time.

 

Danny is never boring.....he took quite a lot of pride in playing the "third line" this year, and was very public about it.

 

A less than discrete way of pointing out that his plus/minus was better than ever IMO....but just to be clear...I'm not inventing this stuff. :lol:

[SDS]

without talking anyone up or down....just a pedantic point, usually the D men with the most minutes are the first pair...but correlating time on ice with forward lines is a little trickier....I'm pretty sure Gaustad probably led the Sabres fowards in ice time.

 

Danny is never boring.....he took quite a lot of pride in playing the "third line" this year, and was very public about it.

 

A less than discrete way of pointing out that his plus/minus was better than ever IMO....but just to be clear...I'm not inventing this stuff. :lol:

 

It's just another superficial analysis. Would it be so hard to reason that the Sabres turned over the puck so many times in the defensive zone that it would behoove Lavy to park Briere behind the net, uncovered, for as much as he could? Clearly it worked for 5 of the goals and a bunch more chances.

 

But somehow that correlates to him doing so much else on the ice that he didn't bother to even give a single example of what that was. Shocking.

[waldo]

The irony here is if you slow down any of those games you will find Vanek in those same spots,open and waiting, the difference being the puck. Whether this attributable to the system, the individual skill levels of the wingers that are paired with him, or the abscence of a true #1 center to play on that line is all debateable but to read the crap some post here is amazing.It is getting easier for me to spot the guys that never played this game and will never understand it nuances. To compare Vanek to Brier or Richards is infintile. It is like comparing apples to oranges.Different games,quality of teams, systems, postions, roles, and skill sets. To blame a guy who had a 70+ point season and thirty plus goals on a team with no pp, no shutdown pair of defenders, no center and which finished seventh is stupidity. The Sabres got dominated in each and every game of that series. They were lucky to win three and despite that they could have won it all in six. They played with heart. Philly keyed on Vanek and doubled him in certain situations for those here who do did not notice. He gave his team five dirty goals with how many chances? I do not understand how someone can expect a guy to score when his line cannot penetrate the zone and when they do he gets doubled in the red zone.Thank god for SDS ,x benidict Silver and Red and a few others here who actully understand what they are watching.This team is a shutdown pair of defensemen, a true number 1 center like Richards and a couple of big physical forwards who can pass, go to the net and play possession away from their goal.They have the trade bait and cap room to put a really dangerous team on the ice next year. The owner knows that by now

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Thank god for SDS ,x benidict and a few others here who actully watch and understand .This team is a shutdown pair of defensemen, a true number 1 center like Richards and a couple of big physical forwards who can go to the net and play possession away from their goal.They have the trade bait and cap room to put a really dangerous team on the ice next year. The owner knows that by now

 

 

:worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

 

A franchise center, 2 physical forwards who are scoring threats, and 2 shutdown defensemen..............I agree!!!!

 

Now go get me those $30 million a year of players with $8 million under the cap and Pominville, Hecht, Boyes, Stafford and Gaustad making $20 million and Miller and Vanek making another $14.

 

Who is your trade bait that will land you these guys??? Roy? Sekera? Enroth? Weber?

 

You could have Briere, Dumont, Drury, Campbell, and Lydman on your team right now for $21 million...and for the last 4 years. Now of course that may have left you without the likes of Boyes, Pominville and Connolly. I would hate to see our Penalty Kill fall apart.....

[Knightrider]

without talking anyone up or down....just a pedantic point, usually the D men with the most minutes are the first pair...but correlating time on ice with forward lines is a little trickier....I'm pretty sure Gaustad probably led the Sabres fowards in ice time.

 

Danny is never boring.....he took quite a lot of pride in playing the "third line" this year, and was very public about it.

 

A less than discrete way of pointing out that his plus/minus was better than ever IMO....but just to be clear...I'm not inventing this stuff. :lol:

 

Funny you should ask that. Just finished up a spreadsheet since I could not find the stats I was looking for, tabulated. Had Timmy not been hurt, it probably would have been him.

 

[spndnchz]

:worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

 

A franchise center, 2 physical forwards who are scoring threats, and 2 shutdown defensemen..............I agree!!!!

 

Now go get me those $30 million a year of players with $8 million under the cap and Pominville, Hecht, Boyes, Stafford and Gaustad making $20 million and Miller and Vanek making another $14.

 

Who is your trade bait that will land you these guys??? Roy? Sekera? Enroth? Weber?

 

You could have Briere, Dumont, Drury, Campbell, and Lydman on your team right now for $21 million...and for the last 4 years. Now of course that may have left you without the likes of Boyes, Pominville and Connolly. I would hate to see our Penalty Kill fall apart.....

 

Bait. I get it.

[X. Benedict]

Funny you should ask that. Just finished up a spreadsheet since I could not find the stats I was looking for, tabulated. Had Timmy not been hurt, it probably would have been him.

 

 

Wow, thanks.....Stafford led the team, wouldn't have guessed. Probably because he was on the kill units.

[spndnchz]

Funny you should ask that. Just finished up a spreadsheet since I could not find the stats I was looking for, tabulated. Had Timmy not been hurt, it probably would have been him.

 

 

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20113BUFSASAll&sort=timeOnIce&viewName=timeOnIce