X. Benedict Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 I know posters and certain radio personalities have intimated that the Sabres could draft their much needed center but nowhere, and I mean anywhere, have I heard anyone from the Sabres organization indicate that they have even remotely contemplated this course of action. Actually, Kevin Devine stated exactly the opposite, that the Sabres may be willing to move draft picks for established veterens. I really think all of the talk about trading up is complete fantasy as far as the Sabres go. Teams that trade up in the draft mortgage their present for future success. I can't fathom that hockey heaven would do anything but scoff at the idea of trading players to move up in the draft. This is the exact opposite of what they are trying to do. I don't really see any player worth trading many assets for. This is looking like a blue-chip type of draft. I would rather have 5 top 100 picks than the #5 pick.
dEnnis the Menace Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 I know posters and certain radio personalities have intimated that the Sabres could draft their much needed center but nowhere, and I mean anywhere, have I heard anyone from the Sabres organization indicate that they have even remotely contemplated this course of action. Actually, Kevin Devine stated exactly the opposite, that the Sabres may be willing to move draft picks for established veterens. I really think all of the talk about trading up is complete fantasy as far as the Sabres go. Teams that trade up in the draft mortgage their present for future success. I can't fathom that hockey heaven would do anything but scoff at the idea of trading players to move up in the draft. This is the exact opposite of what they are trying to do. Good point...
Weave Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 I don't really see any player worth trading many assets for. This is looking like a blue-chip type of draft. I would rather have 5 top 100 picks than the #5 pick. This guy makes a good case against what you are suggesting. Why teams should always draft for maximum upside Mistake 1: Draft a safe, projectable player instead of a high-upside/potential star player This is my number one rule of what not to do with a top five pick unless you want to set your franchise back. Upside is not by any stretch of the imagination easy to find. Teams pay hand over fist and give out ludicrous high dollar, long-term deals in the free agent market to get this valuable resource. Per Iain Fyffe's projections, only the top three talents per draft average a peak GVT of 11.5 or higher; last season, 74 players produced over 11.5 GVT, so you're basically talking about the top 2.5 producers per each of the 30 teams. These aren't just the first line or top pairing players, they are the league's top tier of talent. A team's best shot to get this type of talent—without giving out a heart-wrenching contract—is at the very top of the draft. So on the other hand, getting a very ready but low-upside prospect is pretty useless in today's NHL under the current Collective Bargaining Agreement unless you are set to make a run in the immediate future. New Jersey would be the closest to this statement as they seemed to get hurt by unlucky percentages this year and look primed for a bounceback next season. Even so, I wouldn't advise it especially when you can get a high-upside player in the top four.
Taro T Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 This guy makes a good case against what you are suggesting. Why teams should always draft for maximum upside Darn you Weave. As if I don't already have too little time in the day, now you've got me checking out some of the articles over at Hockey Perspectus. Darn you and all your other 'dark cloud' minions to heck. ;) (And, you're probably already there, because if being a Buffalo sports fan isn't heck, it's gotta be pretty dang close. :P )
Weave Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 Darn you Weave. As if I don't already have too little time in the day, now you've got me checking out some of the articles over at Hockey Perspectus. Darn you and all your other 'dark cloud' minions to heck. ;) (And, you're probably already there, because if being a Buffalo sports fan isn't heck, it's gotta be pretty dang close. :P ) There is some interesting stuff on that site that challenged some of my pre-conceived ideas. I have no idea how appropriately the statistics they are using are being applied, or how reliable their assessments of talent are, but the points they present are interesting enough. Check out the Miller-Luongo thread. I posted up an interesting page from that site that deals with weighing the factors of winning teams.
X. Benedict Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 This guy makes a good case against what you are suggesting. Why teams should always draft for maximum upside Normally I would agree with this author....however in this draft the riskier players are slated to fall, for example Rocco Grimaldi is widely considered by many scouts to be the most fundamentally sound and talented player in the draft....but he's 5'6".... There isn't much ready/NHL talent in this draft....I would have a preference for the more picks, not necessarily safe ones. ,
Weave Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 Normally I would agree with this author....however in this draft the riskier players are slated to fall, for example Rocco Grimaldi is widely considered by many scouts to be the most fundamentally sound and talented player in the draft....but he's 5'6".... There isn't much ready/NHL talent in this draft....I would have a preference for the more picks, not necessarily safe ones. , That's fine if you are content with getting 2nd, 3rd and 4th line talent. The top 100 players goes will into the 4th round. I'd gladly trade my late 1 thru 4 picks for one truly elite talent that might be 2 years away from playing in the NHL, but is likely to be near all-star talent when developed. As the author said, if you don't draft that truly elite player you have to pay much, much more in trade or FA contract to obtain them.
X. Benedict Posted June 16, 2011 Report Posted June 16, 2011 That's fine if you are content with getting 2nd, 3rd and 4th line talent. The top 100 players goes will into the 4th round. I'd gladly trade my late 1 thru 4 picks for one truly elite talent that might be 2 years away from playing in the NHL, but is likely to be near all-star talent when developed. As the author said, if you don't draft that truly elite player you have to pay much, much more in trade or FA contract to obtain them. Actually, just my opinion. I think it may be the opposite for this year. The top ten are NHL players but...not necessarily first line ones. A Rocco Grimaldi is top 6 or a nothing. The Russians, like-wise, are in a very simliar situation. And there are some really good russian centers.I would pass on Sean Courtier if it meant 5 solid boom or bust types like those. I just don't see as much seperation with the high end talent this year.
carpandean Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 A Rocco Grimaldi is top 6 or a nothing. Didn't we say the same about Gerbe? :thumbsup:
Taro T Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 There is some interesting stuff on that site that challenged some of my pre-conceived ideas. I have no idea how appropriately the statistics they are using are being applied, or how reliable their assessments of talent are, but the points they present are interesting enough. Check out the Miller-Luongo thread. I posted up an interesting page from that site that deals with weighing the factors of winning teams. I think I've figured out how I'm planning on spending any free time I have on Father's Day. :doh: :) I'll have to check that one out. I printed out the articles about their "GVT" rating and want to look at them to see how reasonable it looks and what modifications I'd suggest if it does look reasonable.
Weave Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Didn't we say the same about Gerbe? :thumbsup: In all honesty, I'm still in that boat.
shrader Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Actually, just my opinion. I think it may be the opposite for this year. The top ten are NHL players but...not necessarily first line ones. A Rocco Grimaldi is top 6 or a nothing. The Russians, like-wise, are in a very simliar situation. And there are some really good russian centers.I would pass on Sean Courtier if it meant 5 solid boom or bust types like those. I just don't see as much seperation with the high end talent this year. That's the thing. The approach to the draft is going to relate very closely to the talent pool. Now in recent years, aiming for that upper tier player was probably a great move since those drafts were so strong. This year is quickly starting to resemble the ultimate crap shoot. If you can turn your pick into a current NHL body or a prospect a little further along the development scale, this seems like the perfect year to do it.
LGR4GM Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 That's the thing. The approach to the draft is going to relate very closely to the talent pool. Now in recent years, aiming for that upper tier player was probably a great move since those drafts were so strong. This year is quickly starting to resemble the ultimate crap shoot. If you can turn your pick into a current NHL body or a prospect a little further along the development scale, this seems like the perfect year to do it. You know i am starting to agree with this. Ive read every single report it seems on the top 30 north american skaters and honestly they kind start to mix together in the middle, it is a proverbial crap shoot.
shrader Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Does anyone know if there are any notable Buffalo area kids in this year's class? I know Adam Clendening out of Niagara Falls is projected somewhere around the late 2nd round, but I haven't heard about many others.
LGR4GM Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Does anyone know if there are any notable Buffalo area kids in this year's class? I know Adam Clendening out of Niagara Falls is projected somewhere around the late 2nd round, but I haven't heard about many others. http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospectdetail.htm?dpid=9558 he has ties to buffalo but i am not sure he is from buffalo, his dad is though so thats gotta count for something. are you just curious or do you think the sabres should draft a local boy?
X. Benedict Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Does anyone know if there are any notable Buffalo area kids in this year's class? I know Adam Clendening out of Niagara Falls is projected somewhere around the late 2nd round, but I haven't heard about many others. I don't think there is anyone of note from Buffalo, but Cole Bardreau is from Fairport - nifty little center with a ton of guts.
shrader Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospectdetail.htm?dpid=9558 he has ties to buffalo but i am not sure he is from buffalo, his dad is though so thats gotta count for something. are you just curious or do you think the sabres should draft a local boy? Best player available. That is the only criteria that should be followed for any pick.
Braedon Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Best player available. That is the only criteria that should be followed for any pick. +1
bunomatic Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Best player available. That is the only criteria that should be followed for any pick. Agree.
Lanny Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Does anyone know if there are any notable Buffalo area kids in this year's class? I know Adam Clendening out of Niagara Falls is projected somewhere around the late 2nd round, but I haven't heard about many others. Shane Prince, LW, Ottawa 67's (OHL) A native of Rochester, NY, the high scoring Prince opened the eyes of scouts by emerging as a top performer on a line with the OHL's leading goal and point man, Tyler Toffoli (LAK), and Oilers 2010 second rounder Ryan Martindale. The intense left wing slickly dished an impressive 63 assists (4th in OHL) en route to finishing 13th in scoring with 88 points. Goal scoring was talked about at the top, but it has been a while since the Sabres brought in a player with 60+ apples in his draft year. Dillon Donnelly, LHD, Shawinigan Cataractes (QMJHL) Born in Buffalo while father Gord helped patrol the Sabres blueline in the early '90s, the 6'2, 193-pounder brings the exact same aggressive element to the Cataractes. Known for hitting ability and willingness to drop the mitts (35 fights in his first two QMJHL seasons), the hard-nosed bloodlines have bred a stay-at-home protector that could prove to be solid sixth-round value if he masters the simple game. One of the youngest players in the draft (9/7/03 DOB – same as Boucher), Donnelly will get some big game experience as part of his development cycle when Shawi hosts the 2012 Memorial Cup. Until then, he'll be expected to work on his skating and decision making while maintaining his fearless edge. http://www.sabresprospects.com/2011/06/buffalo-sabres-2011-draft-preview.html
X. Benedict Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 http://www.sabresprospects.com/2011/06/buffalo-sabres-2011-draft-preview.html Good stuff Sir Muttonchops.
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Went to highschool with Shane Prince (while he wasn't in juniors) played soccer, and ran with him too. Great Athlete, better person. His first choice is Buffalo, but unfortunately we traded that second away for boyes. He said he talked with sabres staff the other day and it went well. Seeing who the sabres pick is reason #2 while i'll be watching the draft this year, i can't wait to see how Shane does. If he somehow does make the sabres, I'm buying a jersey ASAP. Supposedly he had a great showing at the combine, so who knows, there's a shot i suppose.
X. Benedict Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Went to highschool with Shane Prince (while he wasn't in juniors) played soccer, and ran with him too. Great Athlete, better person. His first choice is Buffalo, but unfortunately we traded that second away for boyes. He said he talked with sabres staff the other day and it went well. Seeing who the sabres pick is reason #2 while i'll be watching the draft this year, i can't wait to see how Shane does. If he somehow does make the sabres, I'm buying a jersey ASAP. Supposedly he had a great showing at the combine, so who knows, there's a shot i suppose. Good luck to your friend. Sounds like he's got a great future.
inkman Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 I don't think there is anyone of note from Buffalo, but Cole Bardreau is from Fairport - nifty little center with a ton of guts. How have I not heard of this kid?
X. Benedict Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 How have I not heard of this kid? Probably because he's been on the US development team playing mostly in the midwest.
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