Weave Posted June 11, 2011 Report Posted June 11, 2011 I don't see it. Especially at #16. Buffalo, has been looking to get bigger. I think Buffalo targets McNeil, Sheiferle, or a longer shot at Jenner or Catenacci if for some reason they have a chance to drop down. I wonder what it would take trade-wise to move down into the 10-12 range to make sure the can grab McNeil. We're deep at wing and D. We could sacrifice alot of the rest of this draft to get our future #1 center and not hurt the farm. I don't know that we'd have to sacrifice much more than a 2nd rounder or/and a 3rd but if we had to, we are deep enough that we could.
LGR4GM Posted June 11, 2011 Report Posted June 11, 2011 I am not sure Jenner is an answer, sounds like one of those kids that is on and off. What I am wondering is do the Sabres have enough someone they can sign and or trade a la Connolly plus a draft pick to get some depth out the second round as well as the first. There seems to be a lot of lower ranked centers, but there are also a lot of very talented wingers that may drop if there is a run on centers and goaltenders. ?Are there any Wingers out there that have played center and can switch back and forth. Someone like a Brandon Saad or Ty Rattie with lots of assists. Saad is the bigger tougher guy and is young enough too?SaadWhat I am talking about is potential of some steal picks in the later rounds. I read somewhere that one of these guys played both wing and center but I can't find the story anymore. Thought is was Saad.Also lower down in the center column are two that played on a week team but were still scorers. Cousins and Cattenacci two fer I wonder what it would take trade-wise to move down into the 10-12 range to make sure the can grab McNeil.We're deep at wing and D. We could sacrifice alot of the rest of this draft to get our future #1 center and not hurt the farm. I don't know that we'd have to sacrifice much more than a 2nd rounder or/and a 3rd but if we had to, we are deep enough that we could. If we can trade up I think we should, and if we can get a early second rounder I think we should. Why? 1st round: There are a number of "Center" prospects that could help a team in as little as 2 years and I think McNeil could fill that role. His size and aggressiveness coupled with a guy like gerbe and kassian would be epic. We do not have to win the cup this year and if you traded up now and got McNeill he could potentially be a rookie in that 3rd year of us winning the cup. Its worth it and I think its reasonable. I would rather trade up and get Couturier but that will not happen, darcy is not that good or that desperate. McNeill will prob go 10-12 but I could see him being there at 16, depending on the european prospects and what other teams value but I would not chance it. 2nd round: http://www.hockeywilderness.com/2011/6/7/2211712/hw-2011-prospects-jonathan-miller He's got a lot of potential, he wouldnt be a factor for probably 4-5 years but something about him makes me think he may go in the 2nd round and the sabres would do themselves well to pick this kid up if they could. I am all for at the least using our 1st and 3rd rounder on centers but obviously the draft could shake out much more differentially. McNeill however would go a long way towards filling the gap at center but i have 3 questions: 1) Is he committed to working hard and winning or does he like money? 2) Would he be here within the next 2 years or would it be longer? 3) If you pair him with Kassian and Gerbe would you create a super line of grit and skill?
X. Benedict Posted June 13, 2011 Report Posted June 13, 2011 I wonder what it would take trade-wise to move down into the 10-12 range to make sure the can grab McNeil. We're deep at wing and D. We could sacrifice alot of the rest of this draft to get our future #1 center and not hurt the farm. I don't know that we'd have to sacrifice much more than a 2nd rounder or/and a 3rd but if we had to, we are deep enough that we could. I think McNiel will be there...but if he isn't Shieferle is, if neither is there it probably means somebody passed on Sven Bartshci to draft for position. If Bartshci is there I would take him even though he isn't a center. He might turn into the best scorer in this draft.
spndnchz Posted June 13, 2011 Report Posted June 13, 2011 A good article on prospective picks http://www.sabresprospects.com/2011/06/buffalo-sabres-2011-draft-preview.html
HopefulFuture Posted June 13, 2011 Report Posted June 13, 2011 A good article on prospective picks http://www.sabresprospects.com/2011/06/buffalo-sabres-2011-draft-preview.html Good read, thank you for posting.
X. Benedict Posted June 13, 2011 Report Posted June 13, 2011 A good article on prospective picks http://www.sabresprospects.com/2011/06/buffalo-sabres-2011-draft-preview.html I've said it before - Kris Baker rocks. He has an uncanny knack for even calling mid-round picks correctly. (sorry to put more pressure on you Kris) It would be great if WGR got you on-air on draft week.
LGR4GM Posted June 13, 2011 Report Posted June 13, 2011 I've said it before - Kris Baker rocks. He has an uncanny knack for even calling mid-round picks correctly. (sorry to put more pressure on you Kris) It would be great if WGR got you on-air on draft week. agreed, i am very excited for the draft because it seems that there are a number of center options that will be available around the 16th pick and yet still have some significant upside as well as size. 6'2" sounds like the perfect height for a gritty skilled forward. Scheifele or McNeill works for me and i thnk would work for this team.
X. Benedict Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 Can you pass on this kid if he's available at 16? Jamieson Oleksiak The strongest kid at the combine. 6'7" D 244 lbs! His dad is from Buffalo. http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospectdetail.htm?dpid=9558 Imagine the ice Myers and this kid could take up someday.
Weave Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 Can you pass on this kid if he's available at 16? Jamieson Oleksiak The strongest kid at the combine. 6'7" D 244 lbs! His dad is from Buffalo. http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospectdetail.htm?dpid=9558 Imagine the ice Myers and this kid could take up someday. Not that it means a damned thing but I read a mock draft article a couple days ago that had Oleksiak going to Buffalo. He sounds like an intriguing pick and would make for a helluva bookend for Myers but we really, really, really, need centers in the pipleline. If he is the best choice at 16 I'll be very disappointed that Darcy didn't move up a handful of spots to draft a position of dire need.
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 if we can get oleksiak i'll take him over any center prospect available at that point. as far as i'm concerned we can trade for the center we need, or sign them, and if that means trading away prospects (most of which are predominantly defense) then why not go for the kid. We have adam and byron in the pipeline as well and nothing is stopping us from drafting centers exclusively next year and the third round and up this year if we decide to pursue the great wall of china on our blue line
X. Benedict Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 Not that it means a damned thing but I read a mock draft article a couple days ago that had Oleksiak going to Buffalo. He sounds like an intriguing pick and would make for a helluva bookend for Myers but we really, really, really, need centers in the pipleline. If he is the best choice at 16 I'll be very disappointed that Darcy didn't move up a handful of spots to draft a position of dire need. My thinkingis draft talent before position at the top...after the first 20 picks - draft for need. I think there are 4 or 5 players that have a legit shot at playing next year. I think Boston will take Oleksiak at 9 - but if they pass..
dEnnis the Menace Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 My thinkingis draft talent before position at the top...after the first 20 picks - draft for need. I think there are 4 or 5 players that have a legit shot at playing next year. I think Boston will take Oleksiak at 9 - but if they pass.. I too would rather draft for talent in the first round. Just out of curiosity, why do you think Boston will grab Oleksiak?
X. Benedict Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 I too would rather draft for talent in the first round. Just out of curiosity, why do you think Boston will grab Oleksiak? Defensemen take the longest to develop. So if you draft defense, they are usually 3 years out (time left in juniors, time in the AHL etc..) Kaberle is a UFA (I don't think Boston re-signes him) Chara is already 34. And they are thin in prospects at D....while being strong up-front. I think they grab him. Having Chara to mentor someone with the same body is just too tempting. Aside from that....the Nichols connection with Jacobs....
dEnnis the Menace Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 Defensemen take the longest to develop. So if you draft defense, they are usually 3 years out (time left in juniors, time in the AHL etc..) Kaberle is a UFA (I don't think Boston re-signes him) Chara is already 34. And they are thin in prospects at D....while being strong up-front. I think they grab him. Having Chara to mentor someone with the same body is just too tempting. Aside from that....the Nichols connection with Jacobs.... All good points. I figured that Boston would be grabbing more forwards, I didn't think defense was as important for some reason... you have changed my mind lol
LGR4GM Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 Whether or not Oleksiak is available i think if scheifele or McNeill is still there you have to take one of them. remember we have McNabb whos 6'4/5" So its not like him and myers wouldnt also create the great wall of buffalo's blueline. I think this year we need to draft a top center but if both of the guys Ive been mentioning are gone and Oleksiak is still around then yes, draft him. Imagine in 3 years when your Blueline is Myers, Weber, Oleksiak, McNabb, MAG, Pysyk (maybe), and shiestal. That would be a dominate force and I stanley cup blueline with some seasoning. tough call but honestly I would love for the sabres to trade up or trade for another first rounder.
dEnnis the Menace Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 Whether or not Oleksiak is available i think if scheifele or McNeill is still there you have to take one of them. remember we have McNabb whos 6'4/5" So its not like him and myers wouldnt also create the great wall of buffalo's blueline. I think this year we need to draft a top center but if both of the guys Ive been mentioning are gone and Oleksiak is still around then yes, draft him. Imagine in 3 years when your Blueline is Myers, Weber, Oleksiak, McNabb, MAG, Pysyk (maybe), and shiestal. That would be a dominate force and I stanley cup blueline with some seasoning. tough call but honestly I would love for the sabres to trade up or trade for another first rounder. If they could trade up without selling the house, then by all means, I think they should. Especially if they could get that needed center.
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 Whether or not Oleksiak is available i think if scheifele or McNeill is still there you have to take one of them. remember we have McNabb whos 6'4/5" So its not like him and myers wouldnt also create the great wall of buffalo's blueline. I think this year we need to draft a top center but if both of the guys Ive been mentioning are gone and Oleksiak is still around then yes, draft him. Imagine in 3 years when your Blueline is Myers, Weber, Oleksiak, McNabb, MAG, Pysyk (maybe), and shiestal. That would be a dominate force and I stanley cup blueline with some seasoning. tough call but honestly I would love for the sabres to trade up or trade for another first rounder. just because a player is in the top 20 does not guarantee they will be top line. A perfect example is connolly... i don't remember his exact pick number but i know it was top 5 in 99. If top five doesn't get you a "top line" center then i dont think 16th overall has a shot. This merely enforces the point that you need to draft for talent first round. Regardless of position, if they turn into a superstar, they can always be traded for key pieces. You pick up the asset with the most value, regardless of position, and you set yourself up for success.
Lanny Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 I think it's going to be tough to trade up without a 2nd round pick. I'd be fine with taking a defenseman if he represented a great value at pick #16, however from where I've seen Oleksiak rated I'm not sure he represents that. Obviously that differs depending on who is doing the rating. While it'd be nice to be able to grab a center in the 1st round let's remember that this player won't be here for at least 2 and more likely 3 seasons. Their needs could be completely different by that time. Also, much of the rest of the draft could also be devoted to that position.
LGR4GM Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 just because a player is in the top 20 does not guarantee they will be top line. A perfect example is connolly... i don't remember his exact pick number but i know it was top 5 in 99. If top five doesn't get you a "top line" center then i dont think 16th overall has a shot. This merely enforces the point that you need to draft for talent first round. Regardless of position, if they turn into a superstar, they can always be traded for key pieces. You pick up the asset with the most value, regardless of position, and you set yourself up for success. True but then look at Zetterberg, datsyuk, Miller even. Players drafted later can turn into stars and be great. Derek Roy is a second round pick. I think you need to draft for position but a lot of people disagree. Some years you can draft for talent but I think you need to draft for position this year especially considering all the 1st round defenders we have in the system that are less than 3 years away from being here. I mean for center we have what 2? maybe? who will be NHL players down the road, thats not really a sign that you should go drafting for talent. We have talent at defense, Pysyk, Mcnabb, Sekera, Weber, Myers, Scheistal, Leduc, Brennen, Persson even. Logically if you passed on a center in the 1st because there was a defender you rated higher than by the time the 3rd comes around you have lost out on a plethora of talented centers and are further removed from getting that star. This year I think due to organizational depth you draft center unless the Defense prospect has fallen 5-6 positions to you. However if I was the sabres gm I would be trying to package something to move up and get a guy like Couturier or Strome. interesting read on Couturier that makes you wonder if hes worth a top 10 pick even: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eric-Smith/NHL-Draft-Player-Preview---Sean-Couturier/96/36395
Lanny Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 Saw this on another board, thought I'd post it here as well: With 14 defenseman currently ranked in the first round for the 2012 draft and 24 slotted in the first 60 picks, NHL teams may look beyond 2011 to bolster their blueline. With just nine defenseman with first round potential in 2011, organizations outside of the range of the likes of Adam Larsson and Dougie Hamilton may wait for the opportunity to select Ryan Murray, Nick Ebert, Jacob Truba, Griffin Reinhart or about a dozen other high profile defenseman available in a year’s time. “You could realistically see 20 defensemen go in the first round next year,” an Eastern Conference based NHL executive said. He went on to wonder out loud if it is worth it for his club to wait until next year to use a high pick on a defenseman, where the blueline talent and depth far outweighs 2011. The quality of blueliner available with the 25th pick in 2012 appears to exceed his 2011 counterpart at this point, which may have some NHL clubs looking to use their first round pick on a forward instead. http://futureconsiderationsdotca.wordpress.com/2011/06/14/2012-draft-impacting-picks-in-minnesota/
Two or less Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 A good article on prospective picks http://www.sabresprospects.com/2011/06/buffalo-sabres-2011-draft-preview.html Awesome job as always by then. Phillips and Miller are my 2 favorite day 1 picks.
inkman Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 If they could trade up without selling the house, then by all means, I think they should. Especially if they could get that needed center. I know posters and certain radio personalities have intimated that the Sabres could draft their much needed center but nowhere, and I mean anywhere, have I heard anyone from the Sabres organization indicate that they have even remotely contemplated this course of action. Actually, Kevin Devine stated exactly the opposite, that the Sabres may be willing to move draft picks for established veterens. I really think all of the talk about trading up is complete fantasy as far as the Sabres go. Teams that trade up in the draft mortgage their present for future success. I can't fathom that hockey heaven would do anything but scoff at the idea of trading players to move up in the draft. This is the exact opposite of what they are trying to do.
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 True but then look at Zetterberg, datsyuk, Miller even. Players drafted later can turn into stars and be great. Derek Roy is a second round pick. I think you need to draft for position but a lot of people disagree. Some years you can draft for talent but I think you need to draft for position this year especially considering all the 1st round defenders we have in the system that are less than 3 years away from being here. I mean for center we have what 2? maybe? who will be NHL players down the road, thats not really a sign that you should go drafting for talent. We have talent at defense, Pysyk, Mcnabb, Sekera, Weber, Myers, Scheistal, Leduc, Brennen, Persson even. Logically if you passed on a center in the 1st because there was a defender you rated higher than by the time the 3rd comes around you have lost out on a plethora of talented centers and are further removed from getting that star. This year I think due to organizational depth you draft center unless the Defense prospect has fallen 5-6 positions to you. However if I was the sabres gm I would be trying to package something to move up and get a guy like Couturier or Strome. interesting read on Couturier that makes you wonder if hes worth a top 10 pick even: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eric-Smith/NHL-Draft-Player-Preview---Sean-Couturier/96/36395 This is exactly why you draft for talent, and not position. And I'm sorry, but with all due respect, the zetterberg situation is a once in a lifetime occurrence. The rest of the post basically supports my claim, that the first round should be drafting for talent, and the rest should be for position. I understand what you're getting at, but if you're looking to make that cup run in 3 years, you're not going to be drafting the star centerman, you're going to have to trade for him. That becomes a lot easier when you draft the best, NHL ready prospects you can as collateral for such a trade.
LGR4GM Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 This is exactly why you draft for talent, and not position. And I'm sorry, but with all due respect, the zetterberg situation is a once in a lifetime occurrence. The rest of the post basically supports my claim, that the first round should be drafting for talent, and the rest should be for position. I understand what you're getting at, but if you're looking to make that cup run in 3 years, you're not going to be drafting the star centerman, you're going to have to trade for him. That becomes a lot easier when you draft the best, NHL ready prospects you can as collateral for such a trade. So we are good adding another defensive prospect to the long list of Pysyk, Myers, Mcnabb, Shiestal, Brennan ect. Thats what I am asking. We have a depth chart at defence that looks like it goes forever and we have barely 4 centers. Im not thinking the stanley cup in 3 years I thinking who the hell is going to replace derek roy in 3 years. Eh it doesnt matter but I think continually saying talent over position could leave you with a lot of X and none of Y.
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Posted June 15, 2011 So we are good adding another defensive prospect to the long list of Pysyk, Myers, Mcnabb, Shiestal, Brennan ect. Thats what I am asking. We have a depth chart at defence that looks like it goes forever and we have barely 4 centers. Im not thinking the stanley cup in 3 years I thinking who the hell is going to replace derek roy in 3 years. Eh it doesnt matter but I think continually saying talent over position could leave you with a lot of X and none of Y. But do you honestly think all of those guys are going to end up full time sabres blueliners? I don't. Most of them will be trade fodder to bring in bigger pieces of the puzzle
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