GAME DISCUSSION THREAD

[bunomatic]

Did anyone notice how fast the Flyers left the ice after the handshake? It seems every team nowadays salutes their home fans by raising their sticks for a few minutes before leaving the ice. I just watched the Canucks do it after they knocked out Chicago in OT. I guess Flyers players hate Philly fans just like everyone else on the planet. I also didn't see that POS Carsmello come out for the handshake like Miller and Gerbe did. Such class those players have.

 

I also have to laugh every time someone says Miller is not a champion and can't get this team to the Cup. Well Hasek wasn't a champion before he went to Detroit either then by this logic. You put Miller on Philly and they win the Cup in 16 games. Miller is the ONLY reason this series went to 7 games. Having two shutouts against a team like Philly in a 7 game series is pretty effing good in today's NHL. Miller will win a cup whether it's in Buffalo or somewhere else. And if he is somewhere else, I hope Enroth is still here. He looks like he's gonna have a long and successful career in the bigs.

The only reason Philly left the ice without saluting the fans is that their season isn't over. Their plans don't end with a first round win. Thay aren't happy with just a first round win and they most likely stopped celebrating shortly after the game and started talking about the next opponent. The sabres were simply a speed bump in their plans. In game 7 it was like the sabres were a bothersome fly that they simply swatted out of the way. Men against boys. You can rest assured they appreciate their fans.

[deluca67]

If you look at the number of wins as a Sabre, Miller is right up there with Hasek. Miller's other stats might not be up to Hasek standards, but the team in front of Hasek was probably better.

It seemed Hasek faced 40 shots every night. Almost every night Hasek was the Sabres best player win or lose.

[OverPowerYou]

Everyone needs to remember, that even without Pronger, the Flyers' defense is probably one of the best defenses in the NHL. We just needed a little more offense from our team next year.

[donteatyellowsnow]

If you look at the number of wins as a Sabre, Miller is right up there with Hasek. Miller's other stats might not be up to Hasek standards, but the team in front of Hasek was probably better.

 

 

Really dude!

[Bmwolf21]

No way did Hasek play with a better hockey team than the 05-06-07 Sabres, where Miller got the bulk of his career wins/playoff wins.

Actually if you look at regular season wins and break it up into three-year segments, he got 106 wins in 05/06-06/07-07/08 and 109 wins in 08/09-09/10-10/11.

 

He did get the bulk of playoff wins (34 versus 14) with the 05-06-07 teams, though.

[Realist]

Good article on what went wrong for the Sabres in this series.

 

Pro Hockey Talk

 

Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

[spndnchz]

Pegula may let him go after some free agents and trade for some size and skill at forward....Our Defense is way too young....We do, however, have tradeables (Roy for example)....

Hahaha hey @ssholes i like connolly, u all got proved wrong, hows that pk doing? Or the pp, wait! Faceoffs too, ur all wrong

I can't disagree with this statement, but we can find a couple of good penalty killers for a lot less than the combined 10 million those two made this year. I can't say I'm going to miss Connolly too much. Two assists and a -2 for the series.

 

The one stat that stuck out to me was Vanek's -7 despite his 5 goals. That doesn't say much for his 5 on 5 play.

They collapsed for sure. The young defense was under constant forechecking pressure and our top "core" guys once again failed. As far as I'm concerned they should get rid of Stafford, Roy, Vanek, Pomminstein, and Connolly and be done with it,

I was going to "answer" these but just not worth it.

 

When will I stop caring? I thought I could stop posting or hanging around the forum because it would be like a moving on sort of thing but it's not working. I watch maybe parts of two or three games all year because I have to endure laughs hockey instead. I have two small kids who are my life now. And yet I get excited to put them to bed and maybe watch at the least an entertaining game, to take me back to the time where hockey was really something special and important to me. Can I move on? I'm not sure. It would be a waste not to wait for that damn Stanley Cup....I know too much about hockey, the feeling is embedded deep now. I'll just continue to hope beyond hope that they can reach that culminating point and legitamize this insanity.

 

Welcome back!

 

Did anyone notice how fast the Flyers left the ice after the handshake? It seems every team nowadays salutes their home fans by raising their sticks for a few minutes before leaving the ice. I just watched the Canucks do it after they knocked out Chicago in OT. I guess Flyers players hate Philly fans just like everyone else on the planet. I also didn't see that POS Carsmello come out for the handshake like Miller and Gerbe did. Such class those players have.

 

I also have to laugh every time someone says Miller is not a champion and can't get this team to the Cup. Well Hasek wasn't a champion before he went to Detroit either then by this logic. You put Miller on Philly and they win the Cup in 16 games. Miller is the ONLY reason this series went to 7 games. Having two shutouts against a team like Philly in a 7 game series is pretty effing good in today's NHL. Miller will win a cup whether it's in Buffalo or somewhere else. And if he is somewhere else, I hope Enroth is still here. He looks like he's gonna have a long and successful career in the bigs.

 

Carcillo got a game misconduct, he wasn't allowed back on the ice.

[korab rules]

Carcillo got a game misconduct, he wasn't allowed back on the ice.

 

How was that different than Gerbe getting a 10 minute misconduct - he came back out for the handshake.

[spndnchz]

How was that different than Gerbe getting a 10 minute misconduct - he came back out for the handshake.

 

They both got 10 min misconducts, after which they could've played again. Game misconduct is ur in the dressing room till next game.

[korab rules]

They both got 10 min misconducts, after which they could've played again. Game misconduct is ur in the dressing room till next game.

 

Sorry - don't buy it - They are sent off until the misconduct expired. The 10:00 misconducts expired the same time the game misconduct expired: when the clock hit 0:00. He could have come out, same as Gerbe. He chose not to. Probably because he's a fracking piece of $hit.

 

Show me something that says a player subject to an unexpired 10 minute misconduct is allowed to come back on the ice to shake hands at the end of a playoff series, but a player subject to a game misconduct isn't and I will grovel at your feet for forgiveness.

[OverPowerYou]

They both got 10 min misconducts, after which they could've played again. Game misconduct is ur in the dressing room till next game.

 

I think I figured the NHL out. If you get a 5 minute major or injure someone with an illegal hit, you're not suspended (like Richards and Torres). I believe that if you receive a game misconduct the NHL then looks at the situation and will suspend the player in most cases (We'll see what happens to Lucic.)

[Dave Dryden]

I would say deficient of top tier talent. They have some talent on the blueline and players like Ennis and Gerbe are nice third line players. It will be interesting to see where the Sabres go with Stafford. If they treat him like a "top six" forward and waste valuable cap dollars on him it will be greatly disappointing and a sign that despite Pegula not much is really changing.

A serious question-- when we dump most of our players as you advocate, like Stafford, Miller Pominville, etc. to get better players, who are all these better players and how are we going to get 8-10 of them quickly at "fair prices?" Take Stafford, I understand the criticism, but 30 goal scorers with a physical presence don't grow on trees. If Stafford costs too much, will not someone better cost more--assuming you can find him and he wants to come to Buffalo? Dump Miller, then what? There is a market out there that values things--there is nothing that is costless. If Pominville, Stafford(to be) Miller etc. are truly overpaid--then their trade value is reduced. In baseball, players are often traded for little or nothing, just to dump salary, e.g. Vernon Wells. Do you assume it is different in hockey.

 

I understand the urge to purge, but what is your plan to restock with better players? Does it not make more sense to cull out 3 or 4 weakest links, and sign strong links, eg. dump Connolly and add a Brad Richards? You let everyone go, and you have a multi-year rebuilding job. Just asking.

[Dave Dryden]

OK, deficient in top tier talent. I'm good with that change.

 

For the last 4 years alot of us have been saying that this team has #2 forwards playing as #1 forwards and #3 forwards playing as #2 forwards. The Flyers showed me all series long that this is still the case. If we get some top line and top D - pairing talent we can shift all the others back a line and be competitive when it counts. The problem is prying top tier talent away from another team (and fitting it under our cap as well). The FA market will have a lot of bidders for very limited bodies.

Exactly--totally agree.

[Robviously]

Correct. But the point of the discussion is which player delivers when it matters, ie in the PLAYOFFS. I didn't "throw out all that data" and just focus on this series. I focused on data that was most relevant to the discussion. The numbers I provided were CAREER PLAYOFF stats -- not just for this series.

Yes, you ARE cherry picking data here because Briere's career playoff teams have been loaded. It's not an accident that his best playoff years were 2006 and last year. Who was Vanek playing with in the playoffs this year and last?

 

I ask again: if the Sabres had one playoff series to win their first cup, who would you rather have? I'll applaud your team spirit if your answer is Vanek, but I think just about every NHL GM would say Briere.

The part where you're imagining NHL GM's backing you up isn't helping.

 

I want the more talented player and that's Vanek, whether you accept it or not. The guy just scored 5 goals in 7 games in a series where his team was completely outmatched at both ends of the ice. The Flyers could just lock onto him and try to shut him down because they weren't worried about his linemates. The fact that he was able to get as much done as he did is remarkable.

 

Briere is the better player if you throw out MOST of the games each guy has played in his career (i.e. regular season numbers) and only look at playoff numbers without any context. But you've had an axe to grind with Vanek for as long as I've been reading your posts so I'm really not surprised that this is what you're doing.

[deluca67]

A serious question-- when we dump most of our players as you advocate, like Stafford, Miller Pominville, etc. to get better players, who are all these better players and how are we going to get 8-10 of them quickly at "fair prices?" Take Stafford, I understand the criticism, but 30 goal scorers with a physical presence don't grow on trees. If Stafford costs too much, will not someone better cost more--assuming you can find him and he wants to come to Buffalo? Dump Miller, then what? There is a market out there that values things--there is nothing that is costless. If Pominville, Stafford(to be) Miller etc. are truly overpaid--then their trade value is reduced. In baseball, players are often traded for little or nothing, just to dump salary, e.g. Vernon Wells. Do you assume it is different in hockey.

 

I understand the urge to purge, but what is your plan to restock with better players? Does it not make more sense to cull out 3 or 4 weakest links, and sign strong links, eg. dump Connolly and add a Brad Richards? You let everyone go, and you have a multi-year rebuilding job. Just asking.

Pominville, with his price tag and injury has little to no trade value.

 

Miller, there may be but a handful of teams that would consider trading for Miller.

 

Stafford is RFA, give him his 10% raise and tell him to score 30+ again before even considering a long term deal.

 

It is going to take longer than one off-season, no matter how aggressive the team wants to be, to turn this franchise into a cup contender. They have $19 mil tied up in Vanek, Miller and Pominville and are simply not getting the desired returns from these players. That hurts considering they are all signed through the 2013-14 season. It is a must for the Sabres to come out of this years free agency period with a blue chip acquisition. If Brad Richards is the brass ring this off-season they need to get him signed one minute into free agency. The aggressiveness needs to carry over into the trade market as well as into the next off-season.

 

Pegula said that the Cup is the only reason the franchise exists. This off-season is step one in proving it.

[SDS]

Yes, you ARE cherry picking data here because Briere's career playoff teams have been loaded. It's not an accident that his best playoff years were 2006 and last year. Who was Vanek playing with in the playoffs this year and last?

 

 

The part where you're imagining NHL GM's backing you up isn't helping.

 

I want the more talented player and that's Vanek, whether you accept it or not. The guy just scored 5 goals in 7 games in a series where his team was completely outmatched at both ends of the ice. The Flyers could just lock onto him and try to shut him down because they weren't worried about his linemates. The fact that he was able to get as much done as he did is remarkable.

 

Briere is the better player if you throw out MOST of the games each guy has played in his career (i.e. regular season numbers) and only look at playoff numbers without any context. But you've had an axe to grind with Vanek for as long as I've been reading your posts so I'm really not surprised that this is what you're doing.

 

You're not going to get anywhere with him. He waits for Briere to score in order to lavish praise on him, but he is silent when he doesn't. He won't tell you HOW Briere is able to score those goals - he'll just offer a platitude about "rising to the occasion". The shallowness is even offensive to Paris Hilton and mud puddles.

 

I mean, anyone who raves about a guy on the other team in a Game 7 discussion thread (before the puck drops) and then has the balls to offer "karma advice" to the rest of us is not playing with a full deck.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

A serious question-- when we dump most of our players as you advocate, like Stafford, Miller Pominville, etc. to get better players, who are all these better players and how are we going to get 8-10 of them quickly at "fair prices?" Take Stafford, I understand the criticism, but 30 goal scorers with a physical presence don't grow on trees. If Stafford costs too much, will not someone better cost more--assuming you can find him and he wants to come to Buffalo? Dump Miller, then what? There is a market out there that values things--there is nothing that is costless. If Pominville, Stafford(to be) Miller etc. are truly overpaid--then their trade value is reduced. In baseball, players are often traded for little or nothing, just to dump salary, e.g. Vernon Wells. Do you assume it is different in hockey.

 

I understand the urge to purge, but what is your plan to restock with better players? Does it not make more sense to cull out 3 or 4 weakest links, and sign strong links, eg. dump Connolly and add a Brad Richards? You let everyone go, and you have a multi-year rebuilding job. Just asking.

 

See....here is where guys that were called haters for saying we should have unloaded at the trading deadline get questioned again...but we answered it 4 years ago, 3 years ago, at the trade deadline, etc. Darcy and co. continue to deal from a position of weakness because they put themselves there.

 

We traded a 2nd round pick for an overpriced Boyes that disappeared for the most part after 2 weeks.

We turned down a reported 2nd for Connolly who is a UFA

Montador was playing well and had immense trade value....you'd get a 2nd all day. He turned into a Lindy Special healthy scratch and will walk for nothing.

Toronto turned down a 1st and 3rd for MacArthur who is in the same position as Stafford. For those of us that didn't buy into Stafford showing up when it matters...another knock that we are dour non-fans.

 

Darcy himself said that everyone was a buyer and nobody a seller. That is the definition of getting over-paid for your assets if you decide to sell. But all in the name of a feel good run from dispair to the 15th best team in the league, we stood pat....and are no better for it, minus a few games experience for 4 or 5 of the young kids that will stick around.

 

To sum this season up.....We took $500 to the blackjack table and got creamed the first half of the session, with our bankroll down to $75. Terry Pegula sat next to us at that point and we went on a roll, getting our bankroll up to $550. To Pegula, it looked like we were brilliant, turning $75 into $550. But we weren't....we were just happy to get our original money back and the false sense of exhuberation was just the removal of the pressure of sucking and losing all our money. The playoffs came, we gave back a few bucks.....and leave the table exactally where we were at $500. Yes.....we got some entertainment value, but on a real basis, we made zero ground.

 

This offseason would look a lot more promising with those extra draft picks and maybe even the chance to have dumped a Hecht or Pominville at the time to a contender. Nobody wants our underwater mortgages once the big show is over.

 

 

Now......those of us who have been critical will get questioned once again how we think we can get talent in here so fast??? We've told you the last 4 years....and because we were called miserable or overcritical, once again we get to twiddle our thumbs from a position of weakness and be lucky to see baby steps take place.

[X. Benedict]

 

Now......those of us who have been critical will get questioned once again how we think we can get talent in here so fast??? We've told you the last 4 years....and because we were called miserable or overcritical, once again we get to twiddle our thumbs from a position of weakness and be lucky to see baby steps take place.

 

A pretty long narrative to come to an "I told you so."

[Kristian]

See....here is where guys that were called haters for saying we should have unloaded at the trading deadline get questioned again...but we answered it 4 years ago, 3 years ago, at the trade deadline, etc. Darcy and co. continue to deal from a position of weakness because they put themselves there.

 

We traded a 2nd round pick for an overpriced Boyes that disappeared for the most part after 2 weeks.

We turned down a reported 2nd for Connolly who is a UFA

Montador was playing well and had immense trade value....you'd get a 2nd all day. He turned into a Lindy Special healthy scratch and will walk for nothing.

Toronto turned down a 1st and 3rd for MacArthur who is in the same position as Stafford. For those of us that didn't buy into Stafford showing up when it matters...another knock that we are dour non-fans.

 

Darcy himself said that everyone was a buyer and nobody a seller. That is the definition of getting over-paid for your assets if you decide to sell. But all in the name of a feel good run from dispair to the 15th best team in the league, we stood pat....and are no better for it, minus a few games experience for 4 or 5 of the young kids that will stick around.

 

To sum this season up.....We took $500 to the blackjack table and got creamed the first half of the session, with our bankroll down to $75. Terry Pegula sat next to us at that point and we went on a roll, getting our bankroll up to $550. To Pegula, it looked like we were brilliant, turning $75 into $550. But we weren't....we were just happy to get our original money back and the false sense of exhuberation was just the removal of the pressure of sucking and losing all our money. The playoffs came, we gave back a few bucks.....and leave the table exactally where we were at $500. Yes.....we got some entertainment value, but on a real basis, we made zero ground.

 

This offseason would look a lot more promising with those extra draft picks and maybe even the chance to have dumped a Hecht or Pominville at the time to a contender. Nobody wants our underwater mortgages once the big show is over.

 

 

Now......those of us who have been critical will get questioned once again how we think we can get talent in here so fast??? We've told you the last 4 years....and because we were called miserable or overcritical, once again we get to twiddle our thumbs from a position of weakness and be lucky to see baby steps take place.

 

Good post.

[SDS]

Yes.....we got some entertainment value, but on a real basis, we made zero ground.

 

:blink:

 

Hockey is a sport that is consumed for entertainment. If that is what was delivered then it WAS a success. We just had 4 months of exciting worthwhile hockey and a game 7 to boot. You can play wanna-be-gm all day and maybe that's the part YOU find entertaining. For many of us, we'll take the actual games and leave the endless grousing for issues that really matter.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

A pretty long narrative to come to an "I told you so."

 

When you get spun in circles from the same people for 4 years, and we are no further down the road and we get asked yet again what we would do differently.....we've been telling you the whole time.

 

He asked.....

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

:blink:

 

Hockey is a sport that is consumed for entertainment. If that is what was delivered then it WAS a success. We just had 4 months of exciting worthwhile hockey and a game 7 to boot. You can play wanna-be-gm all day and maybe that's the part YOU find entertaining. For many of us, we'll take the actual games and leave the endless grousing for issues that really matter.

 

There was entertainment value......I give credit for that. It was fun for fans the past few months.

 

Just don't wonder why some of us avoid the casino when we know Darcy's Palace pays even money on blackjack, doesn't give you odds on the passline, and has a 0, 00, 000, and 0000 on the roulette wheel.

[Assquatch]

There was entertainment value......I give credit for that. It was fun for fans the past few months.

 

Just don't wonder why some of us avoid the casino when we know Darcy's Palace pays even money on blackjack, doesn't give you odds on the passline, and has a 0, 00, 000, and 0000 on the roulette wheel.

 

I don't always agree with your posts (though I was swayed by post #1042[!] in this thread) but I always appreciate your analogies.

[X. Benedict]

When you get spun in circles from the same people for 4 years, and we are no further down the road and we get asked yet again what we would do differently.....we've been telling you the whole time.

 

He asked.....

 

In this muddle of pronouns that you created with We, They and You....somehow you come off as sounding persecuted and finally vindicated.

 

Who is this WE who told US? Where is this convergence of opinion? Where is this group-think?

 

FWIW. I've never found your musings to be quite like anyone else's.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I don't always agree with your posts (though I was swayed by post #1042[!] in this thread) but I always appreciate your analogies.

 

Thanks. My 11th grade English teacher doesn't agree. She failed me on poem interpretation.