GAME DISCUSSION THREAD

[SDS]

Making up lines in tonight's game was brutal. Four guys out there that wouldn't have been close to the ice in the regular season......

 

Gaustad #1 center......it was asking a lot....no forward puck support in the defensive zone...no presence through the neutral zone.....

 

It was bad.....

 

At the same time...Philly is loaded. ...

 

It would behoove some people to just pick up a hockey strategy book and attempt to learn the basics.

[Monkeygirl]

When will I stop caring? I thought I could stop posting or hanging around the forum because it would be like a moving on sort of thing but it's not working. I watch maybe parts of two or three games all year because I have to endure laughs hockey instead. I have two small kids who are my life now. And yet I get excited to put them to bed and maybe watch at the least an entertaining game, to take me back to the time where hockey was really something special and important to me. Can I move on? I'm not sure. It would be a waste not to wait for that damn Stanley Cup....I know too much about hockey, the feeling is embedded deep now. I'll just continue to hope beyond hope that they can reach that culminating point and legitamize this insanity.

[nfreeman]

They collapsed for sure. The young defense was under constant forechecking pressure and our top "core" guys once again failed. As far as I'm concerned they should get rid of Stafford, Roy, Vanek, Pomminstein, and Connolly and be done with it,

Fire and brimstone, eh? Works for me. The Habs did this more or less a couple of seasons ago and have had some success with it.

 

I would like someone to define this. I read this from big tough guys all the time, yet I have no idea what means.

Well, I will give you credit for being a very consistent sourpuss this week.

 

Making up lines in tonight's game was brutal. Four guys out there that wouldn't have been close to the ice in the regular season......

 

Gaustad #1 center......it was asking a lot....no forward puck support in the defensive zone...no presence through the neutral zone.....

 

It was bad.....

 

At the same time...Philly is loaded. ...

Philly is indeed loaded and a better team than the Sabres on both offense and defense. The Sabres needed to play their best to win. I thought they shrank from the moment tonight, just like most of the Boston series last spring (but not like most of this series vs Philly). From the opening puck drop, all the passes were off. They were tight, squeezing the stick, etc.

 

It was asking a lot, but still -- they were capable of a much, much better performance than the one we got. Gaustad, who I've been praising highly this series, played with his regular linemates and had a lousy game. Ennis and Stafford played with an NHL center who's been playing pretty well lately in Niedermayer and were terrible. Vanek played with the injured guys and was invisible.

 

I thought they missed Kaleta tonight more than they missed Pommer or TC (although they definitely missed those 2 as well). There was no fire from anyone.

 

He's not as good as Briere. He's better. Briere is six years older and has just 60 more career goals. He also happens to play with guys who are a TON more talented than the guys Vanek plays with.

Not a chance. Briere will end his career with at least double the number of playoff points that Vanek ends his career with. Vanek will also never have a 90-point season.

 

If you had to pick a team to win one playoff series for Buffalo's shot at a cup, would you rather have Briere on your team or Vanek?

 

 

 

Separately, I thought Stafford, Leopold and Butler were particularly terrible.

 

Also, after a thrilling series, that game was so GD anti-climactic!

 

I couldn't help thinking that Buffalo teams don't win games like that.

 

There is a reasonably good chance though that TP will bring about the necessary changes to fix that situation.

 

Go Sabres.

[fiftyone]

This first round exit may be a blessing in disguise. This team showed that they may have what it takes to go the distance next year. Afterall, they did push Philly to 7 games and Buffalo did it with many key injuries on their side. This will show Pegula that we are a few Good players away from being a cup contender.

 

For the first time in my life, I'm actually looking forward to July 1st. I am going to enjoy the rest of the playoffs first.

 

What makes you think that? Throughout 80% of the play during this series, I didn't think the Sabres were the better team on the ice. Even the games they won I didn't necessarily think they were the better team. A couple of 1-0 shutouts aren't exceedingly convincing, and a 4-3 OT win in a game that you led 3-0 is nothing to write home about either. Bah.

[Nitro60]

Koleta plays, broken hand or not, to do one thing: annoy the Flyers. I am not a pro but have played sports with broken fingers, ribs, shoulder blade and left cheek bone. It was not the time to pull up short. Miller will never be a champ. He does not have the ice water in the veins you need. He is a very good goalie but not a champ. This team has promise and it needs to address the gapping hole at Center and a quality stay at home veteran Defenseman.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Grier in tears in the dressing room, other players crying. Must have been pathetic. :pirate:

 

Lindy kind of used the "too many bodies" excuse, but mainly relied on the "out of gas" excuse. The latter is one that was pretty obvious by the OT in game 6.

 

Grier is gonna retire. He was hugging all the Flyers like they were his girlfriend and he was going off to war.

[Robviously]

Not a chance. Briere will end his career with at least double the number of playoff points that Vanek ends his career with. Vanek will also never have a 90-point season.

Uh huh. Briere will have more playoff points because he's playing on a veritable all-star team in Philly that is going to go deep in the playoffs (again). If Vanek was on Philly, he'd be racking up ridiculous points too.

 

Vanek has a higher points per game and a better career plus/minus, despite playing on an inferior team and having opponents lock onto him every night. (You're aware of Google, right? You can look this stuff up.)

[nfreeman]

Uh huh. Briere will have more playoff points because he's playing on a veritable all-star team in Philly that is going to go deep in the playoffs (again). If Vanek was on Philly, he'd be racking up ridiculous points too.

 

Vanek has a higher points per game and a better career plus/minus, despite playing on an inferior team and having opponents lock onto him every night. (You're aware of Google, right? You can look this stuff up.)

I'm aware of google. Are you aware that producing in the playoffs matters much more than regular-season hat tricks vs Tampa?

 

You are correct that Briere will play many more playoff games in his career than Vanek will and that this is at least in part due to his playing with better players (although they are also benefited by playing with him). But what does each of them do when they get to the playoffs?

 

Briere's playoff PPG is, with his two points in game 7 tonight, just over 1.01.

 

Vanek's playoff PPG is, with his zero points in game 7 tonight (and a minus-1 and 2 shots on goal in the $7MM per year bargain) is 0.556.

 

I'm highly confident that Briere will finish his career with a playoff PPG at least 40% better than Vanek's.

 

I humbly await your response. Please make it good. There's 8 weeks to kill until the draft.

[EZBills7]

Always enjoyed your posts. Visit this board during the summer. This is the most exciting offseason in Sabres history. Be a part of it.

 

Thanks man, will do.

[EZBills7]

The only upside is not having to deal with a Caps series while living in SE VA. The bandwagon fans in these parts still think there's a halftime in hockey and that icing is something you do for a muscle strain.

 

I will say that several big sports fans I know in the area (in Virginia Beach myself) that were not really into hockey before have started to follow it because of the Caps the past year or two. I say the more hockey fans the merrier.

[SwampD]

I'm aware of google. Are you aware that producing in the playoffs matters much more than regular-season hat tricks vs Tampa?

 

You are correct that Briere will play many more playoff games in his career than Vanek will and that this is at least in part due to his playing with better players (although they are also benefited by playing with him). But what does each of them do when they get to the playoffs?

 

Briere's playoff PPG is, with his two points in game 7 tonight, just over 1.01.

 

Vanek's playoff PPG is, with his zero points in game 7 tonight (and a minus-1 and 2 shots on goal in the $7MM per year bargain) is 0.556.

 

I'm highly confident that Briere will finish his career with a playoff PPG at least 40% better than Vanek's.

 

I humbly await your response. Please make it good. There's 8 weeks to kill until the draft.

Not that I care (because I really don't), but you gotta give this the Miller/Boucher test and swap players. Who would have more points? I'm pretty confident it's Vanek.

[SwampD]

While the last 2 weeks has been fun (I think), I kinda feel like the groundhog that didn't see his shadow today: Summer just came 6 weeks early.

[EZBills7]

He was hugging all the Flyers like they were his girlfriend and he was going off to war.

 

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: Dude you're hilarious! I've had a couple of laugh out loud moments at work the past month reading posts like this!

[FogBat]

This was not the way I wanted my birthday to end. :(

[calti]

I don't accept it either. We grant appreciation for mediocrity way too easily. The strong finish to the season was necessitated by a horrific start. And if you can't make it to the NHL playoffs, then as a team you really have issues.

 

The real value of all this is the ability for our new team leadership to evaluate our gaps and opportunities and address them. I don't see us just tinkering with the roster - it needs to be forceful and perhaps dramatic. Some of the usual regular season masters turned to ghosts again when it mattered in the playoffs.

 

From this day forward, we need to shed the former sacred cows and build a champion.

this team has zero great players.we need a new briere.

roy,vanek,stafford are all very good 2nd line guys.there is a

decent core now--but there needs to be serious changes.--its not the

7 game loss its the fact that we were outplayed in at least 6 of the

games.

hats off to this team for working so hard in the 2nd half in making this

a very enjoyable year.

[Robviously]

I'm aware of google. Are you aware that producing in the playoffs matters much more than regular-season hat tricks vs Tampa?

 

You are correct that Briere will play many more playoff games in his career than Vanek will and that this is at least in part due to his playing with better players (although they are also benefited by playing with him). But what does each of them do when they get to the playoffs?

 

Briere's playoff PPG is, with his two points in game 7 tonight, just over 1.01.

 

Vanek's playoff PPG is, with his zero points in game 7 tonight (and a minus-1 and 2 shots on goal in the $7MM per year bargain) is 0.556.

 

I'm highly confident that Briere will finish his career with a playoff PPG at least 40% better than Vanek's.

 

I humbly await your response. Please make it good. There's 8 weeks to kill until the draft.

Again, it completely comes down to who was playing with who. Vanek's team this series could barely get the puck out of their own end. Briere was playing on a team with four players who had more than 60 points this season. The Sabres had ONE player with more than 60 points -- Thomas Vanek.

 

Briere's goals this series mostly came from rebounds after the Flyers had been cycling the puck and controlling the play in Buffalo's zone. There weren't many times this series where the Sabres were dominating the Flyers in their own end. (Did they ever?) Had Vanek been on the ice for the Flyers there instead of Briere, I'm pretty sure he would have been able score there as well. A significant number of his 200+ career goals were scored in exactly this way.

 

So if you switch Briere for Vanek, Vanek would rack up more points from playing with better teammates against a weaker, less experienced team. This seems like an incredibly simple concept.

 

Big swing and a miss on your "hat tricks against Tampa Bay" line. We went over how most players get their points against weaker teams on this board weeks ago. That's a poor argument.

 

We have a huge sample size comparing Vanek over his first 6 seasons to Briere over his first 12 (!), and Vanek comes out better in points/game and +/-. But for some reason you've decided to throw out ALL of that data so that you could compare each player in THIS series, while simultaneously discounting the fact that they were playing with different teammates and against different teams. That's why your argument sucks and your anti-Vanek posts remain incredibly tedious and boring.

[rickshaw]

Briere is huge. And I see all these posts about bringing back Drury???? Good gawd let it go.

[Guest]

Did anyone notice how fast the Flyers left the ice after the handshake? It seems every team nowadays salutes their home fans by raising their sticks for a few minutes before leaving the ice. I just watched the Canucks do it after they knocked out Chicago in OT. I guess Flyers players hate Philly fans just like everyone else on the planet. I also didn't see that POS Carsmello come out for the handshake like Miller and Gerbe did. Such class those players have.

 

I also have to laugh every time someone says Miller is not a champion and can't get this team to the Cup. Well Hasek wasn't a champion before he went to Detroit either then by this logic. You put Miller on Philly and they win the Cup in 16 games. Miller is the ONLY reason this series went to 7 games. Having two shutouts against a team like Philly in a 7 game series is pretty effing good in today's NHL. Miller will win a cup whether it's in Buffalo or somewhere else. And if he is somewhere else, I hope Enroth is still here. He looks like he's gonna have a long and successful career in the bigs.

[Taro T]

When will I stop caring? I thought I could stop posting or hanging around the forum because it would be like a moving on sort of thing but it's not working. I watch maybe parts of two or three games all year because I have to endure laughs hockey instead. I have two small kids who are my life now. And yet I get excited to put them to bed and maybe watch at the least an entertaining game, to take me back to the time where hockey was really something special and important to me. Can I move on? I'm not sure. It would be a waste not to wait for that damn Stanley Cup....I know too much about hockey, the feeling is embedded deep now. I'll just continue to hope beyond hope that they can reach that culminating point and legitamize this insanity.

Welcome back. Hope you stick around a little longer this time.

 

Not sure what to think about tonight's result. The initial, beer influenced, take is they lost to a better team and have provided management a pretty good look at what they do right and wrong and where there are holes to fill. The silver lining is, a few weaknesses that would have been covered up had they won Sunday (though when you're up 3-1, you should win) were in broad daylight AND they aren't that far from having a team that can be a serious contender.

[Taro T]

Briere is huge. And I see all these posts about bringing back Drury???? Good gawd let it go.

As soon as Labialette talks about getting rid of Danny, I'll start thinking about having him back. I don't see that as being high on his or Holmgren's lists.

 

PS congrats on your Nucks. Burrows was pretty damn certain that he'd be talked about 1 way or the other, wasn't he?

[Kristian]

Welcome back. Hope you stick around a little longer this time.

 

Not sure what to think about tonight's result. The initial, beer influenced, take is they lost to a better team and have provided management a pretty good look at what they do right and wrong and where there are holes to fill. The silver lining is, a few weaknesses that would have been covered up had they won Sunday (though when you're up 3-1, you should win) were in broad daylight AND they aren't that far from having a team that can be a serious contender.

 

I'm with you on this.

 

While Regier might be happy to overlook these, I doubt his bosses are. FINALLY......!!

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I'm with you on this.

 

While Regier might be happy to overlook these, I doubt his bosses are. FINALLY......!!

 

Who are his bosses?

 

 

Regier will not change. He believes in puck moving defensemen first....if they can play the body as well, terrific. Miller is your guy. You still have $27 million tied up in Vanek, Pominville, Roy, Boyes, Hecht, Gaustad.....and Pominville and Roy are coming off serious leg injuries. Again....who is the leader? Gaustad on a good day? Montador was your most consistant dman for the first 60 games of the year and fell apart late. Leopold is Leopold. Sekera was exposed as the defensive liability he is when physical play is involved. Butler improved but would have been given away the first half of the year. Myers MAY turn into a top 10 defenseman in the league, but he needs someone to show him how to do things right. Grier is retiring, and Niedermayer will probably try and suck another million down and float for 7 months. Kaleta has become totally unreliable and can't stand up to a physical game without breaking down. Stafford is closing in on 30 and hasn't figured it out when it matters. McCormick is fine, but he's like mudflaps on a Prius. Connolly may have saved us with that concussion the other day. I swear Darcy had the 2 year $5.9 million deal ready to go.

 

Here are the pluses:

 

Weber, Gerbe, Ennis, Enroth, Gragnani (maybe)

 

Miller, Vanek, and Roy coming off injury is a push

 

I can take or leave Mancari and Butler......but after that, there is no value left on the team.

 

These guys put in a decent effort the last 30 games, but as we see....that wasn't enough to win 1 series, let alone 4. I just don't see the turnover coming, or the right type of players coming in, fast enough to make this a real contender.

 

I really am not excited about this offseason given what I have seen from Pegula. I hope it works out in the end, but I can see the excuse train getting rolled out again, a marginal defenseman coming in to replace Montador, and Darcy looking from within for "toughness" from his forwards and overpaying a token 2 way center in FA in the Hecht/Pominville/Boyes mold.

 

I hope everyone has a good offseason and thanks for being good sports. October is a long way away, not just for hockey. Everyone be safe, and no matter what gets thrown at you......remember what's really important and keep your cool.

[calti]

Who are his bosses?

 

 

Regier will not change. He believes in puck moving defensemen first....if they can play the body as well, terrific. Miller is your guy. You still have $27 million tied up in Vanek, Pominville, Roy, Boyes, Hecht, Gaustad.....and Pominville and Roy are coming off serious leg injuries. Again....who is the leader? Gaustad on a good day? Montador was your most consistant dman for the first 60 games of the year and fell apart late. Leopold is Leopold. Sekera was exposed as the defensive liability he is when physical play is involved. Butler improved but would have been given away the first half of the year. Myers MAY turn into a top 10 defenseman in the league, but he needs someone to show him how to do things right. Grier is retiring, and Niedermayer will probably try and suck another million down and float for 7 months. Kaleta has become totally unreliable and can't stand up to a physical game without breaking down. Stafford is closing in on 30 and hasn't figured it out when it matters. McCormick is fine, but he's like mudflaps on a Prius. Connolly may have saved us with that concussion the other day. I swear Darcy had the 2 year $5.9 million deal ready to go.

 

Here are the pluses:

 

Weber, Gerbe, Ennis, Enroth, Gragnani (maybe)

 

Miller, Vanek, and Roy coming off injury is a push

 

I can take or leave Mancari and Butler......but after that, there is no value left on the team.

 

These guys put in a decent effort the last 30 games, but as we see....that wasn't enough to win 1 series, let alone 4. I just don't see the turnover coming, or the right type of players coming in, fast enough to make this a real contender.

 

I really am not excited about this offseason given what I have seen from Pegula. I hope it works out in the end, but I can see the excuse train getting rolled out again, a marginal defenseman coming in to replace Montador, and Darcy looking from within for "toughness" from his forwards and overpaying a token 2 way center in FA in the Hecht/Pominville/Boyes mold.

 

I hope everyone has a good offseason and thanks for being good sports. October is a long way away, not just for hockey. Everyone be safe, and no matter what gets thrown at you......remember what's really important and keep your cool.

stafford is 25

[JJFIVEOH]

FWIW, you guys arguing about Briere and Vanek know you're comparing apples and oranges right? Vanek's not supposed to be racking up the points, he's supposed to be scoring goals. Compare Goals per Game.................... Vanek and Briere are nearly identical in the postseason.

[donteatyellowsnow]

Did anyone notice how fast the Flyers left the ice after the handshake? It seems every team nowadays salutes their home fans by raising their sticks for a few minutes before leaving the ice. I just watched the Canucks do it after they knocked out Chicago in OT. I guess Flyers players hate Philly fans just like everyone else on the planet. I also didn't see that POS Carsmello come out for the handshake like Miller and Gerbe did. Such class those players have.

 

I also have to laugh every time someone says Miller is not a champion and can't get this team to the Cup. Well Hasek wasn't a champion before he went to Detroit either then by this logic. You put Miller on Philly and they win the Cup in 16 games. Miller is the ONLY reason this series went to 7 games. Having two shutouts against a team like Philly in a 7 game series is pretty effing good in today's NHL. Miller will win a cup whether it's in Buffalo or somewhere else. And if he is somewhere else, I hope Enroth is still here. He looks like he's gonna have a long and successful career in the bigs.

 

Hasek never had the quality players surrounding him that Miller does. Go check out Haseks playoff numbers for the years he carried Buffalo and tell me he wasn't a stud.

 

Miller was good for 2 games and average to bad for 5 others. Tell me again how that inconsistanty is good enough, he got outplayed by guys making $5 million less than him.

 

That's good enough for you? It's not for me. The Sabres can definantly upgrade the goalie position and they should take a long hard look at doing so.