Our defense blows

[X. Benedict]

I think butler needs a major demotion. Ruff has this weird "point scoring def are better than ppl who can actually play defense" thing going this playoffs. I hate seeing butler out there on the pp or pk and in certain situations. MAG, Myers, Weber have been this series best def for buffalo and thats a good thing. We are clearly missing sekera and his set of skills.

 

I don't think Butler was that bad yesterday. Aside from the minors....clearing on the backhand is always tough...(first minor) the second holding was a very marginal call...but that's hockey.

 

Even the game winner - I don't think his position was all that bad. It looked like he fronted Leino which is the right position. It looked like the puck ended up in that magic place of being 6 inches from Miller's reach and 6 inches from Butler's stick. More tough luck than anything in that scramble.

 

I'm more concerned with Monty....I'm really not worried about Butler.

[LGR4GM]

I'm not sure I disagree with you on this, but I don't think he needs a demotion. He needs more support from the other defensemen.If you look at the Regular Season Stats, you see Leopold led the reg season ice time with 23 min, followed by Myers, Sekera, Montador, Roy, and then Butler, who averaged ~18 min a game. The Post Season has Butler playing a full 6 and a half minutes more, and leads the team in that stat. Montador is off the ice 4 minutes more than the regular season, and Weber is pretty much the same. Obviously Sekera and Leopold are down due to injury. MAG is a huge surprise and is logging 21+ minutes, but he is doing it with Leopold.We miss a healthy Sekera, and a solid Montador. One last thing - Butler has a -2 +/- just like Weber. If Weber were on the ice for 50% more time, what do you think would happen to that +/-?

Well considering that weber was a +1 up until that game I would say that he would be even still if Butler hadnt been so weak. Butlers had a lot of moments where hes been weak on checks and has allowed people inside. Watch how often philly will try and turn the corner on him and succeed it is a lot.

 

I don't think Butler was that bad yesterday. Aside from the minors....clearing on the backhand is always tough...(first minor) the second holding was a very marginal call...but that's hockey. Even the game winner - I don't think his position was all that bad. It looked like he fronted Leino which is the right position. It looked like the puck ended up in that magic place of being 6 inches from Miller's reach and 6 inches from Butler's stick. More tough luck than anything in that scramble. I'm more concerned with Monty....I'm really not worried about Butler.

Butler has played like garbage for 3 games so I am starting to get worried. He is unreliable and depending on the night you either get good butler or bad butler so he has major consistency issues and the right play is to drop leino so he cant shoot.

[X. Benedict]

 

Butler has played like garbage for 3 games so I am starting to get worried. He is unreliable and depending on the night you either get good butler or bad butler so he has major consistency issues and the right play is to drop leino so he cant shoot.

 

Anything specifically?

 

Butler has been getting a ton of ice time, and I think he's been pretty good with the puck...or at least I haven't noticed any real errors. A couple times when I would have been happy if he just iced it....but I don't think the team is going to start doing that now.

 

I really think if he has looked bad, it has been as much to do with the wingers supporting the puck in the defensive zone than anything.

[LGR4GM]

Anything specifically?

 

Butler has been getting a ton of ice time, and I think he's been pretty good with the puck...or at least I haven't noticed any real errors. A couple times when I would have been happy if he just iced it....but I don't think the team is going to start doing that now.

 

I really think if he has looked bad, it has been as much to do with the wingers supporting the puck in the defensive zone than anything.

fair argument, i just seem to remember him having issues pushing people off the puck and making smart plays rather recently and no I am not just referring to the ot goal in game 6. He just has not been strong anywhere on the ice from what ive seen.

[dogman]

Either the "Greatest Goalie in the World" can't hold a lead in the third period, or our defense is suspect. One or the other or both are true. My feeling is both are true. Miller had a third period lead in game 6 in Carlina in '07 and couldn't hold that one either. Butler is soft, and panics. He may grow out of it. Leopold stayed in the lineup all year only because of his powerplay work. Gragiani is already better. Montador is inconsistent, and when he is bad he is real bad. Myers, Gragniani, and Weber are keepers. The rest are very average. The Sabres need a veteran, play-off tested defenseman as a fourth. Let Butler and Sekara be the third set and give them about ten minutes a game.

 

Hecht, Connolly, Leopold, Montador, and Morrisonn out the door frees up about 15 million in cap space to get the defenseman I described as well as locking up Myers.

 

They could be really be bold (I know I might get hit by lightning for saying so, but....) and trade Miller for that defenseman, even up or with a draft pick, and use the the 15 million to add 4-5 quality players. Do top goalies really win cups when they are on average teams??? Lundquist and Miller will be playing golf in about 48 hours while allot of mediocre goalies are still playing.

[X. Benedict]

Either the "Greatest Goalie in the World" can't hold a lead in the third period, or our defense is suspect. One or the other or both are true. My feeling is both are true. Miller had a third period lead in game 6 in Carlina in '07 and couldn't hold that one either. Butler is soft, and panics. He may grow out of it. Leopold stayed in the lineup all year only because of his powerplay work. Gragiani is already better. Montador is inconsistent, and when he is bad he is real bad. Myers, Gragniani, and Weber are keepers. The rest are very average. The Sabres need a veteran, play-off tested defenseman as a fourth. Let Butler and Sekara be the third set and give them about ten minutes a game.

 

Hecht, Connolly, Leopold, Montador, and Morrisonn out the door frees up about 15 million in cap space to get the defenseman I described as well as locking up Myers.

 

The could be really be bold (I know I might get hit by lightning for saying so, but....) and trade Miller for that defenseman, even up or with a draft pick, and use the the 15 million to add 4-5 quality players. Do top goalies really win cups when they are on average teams??? Lundquist and Miller will be playing golf in about 48 hours while allot of mediocre goalies are still playing.

 

Philly had about 50 shots yesterday....probably about 15 missed shots, and another 15 shots shots blocked (estimating here) for about 80 attempted shots.

 

Philly's forwards are pretty damn good.

[carpandean]

Lundquist and Miller will be playing golf in about 48 hours while allot of mediocre goalies are still playing.

I'm not guaranteeing a win or anything, but you certainly seem to be guaranteeing a loss. It's game 7, one game, winner takes all. He may be playing golf or maybe the three Flyers' goalies will be playing round robin ... well, they have already been, but this would be on a golf course. It's bad enough that the season may be over tomorrow; no need to count them out before it happens.

[EZBills7]

He may be playing golf or maybe the three Flyers' goalies will be playing round robin ... well, they have already been, but this would be on a golf course. It's bad enough that the season may be over tomorrow; no need to count them out before it happens.

 

By later this week I'm expecting someone to say, "Tee time for Bobrovsky, Boucher, Leighton, and Laviolette."

[iamsuperdave]

Hey guys! Miss me?

 

Boucher is starting (no surprise there) but Leighton has been banished to Siberia. Bob will back up Boucher, now there's a novel; idea that would have had this series over by now.

 

Good luck, arent game 7s the best!!! :thumbsup:

[MattPie]

Hey guys! Miss me?

 

Boucher is starting (no surprise there) but Leighton has been banished to Siberia. Bob will back up Boucher, now there's a novel; idea that would have had this series over by now.

 

Good luck, arent game 7s the best!!! :thumbsup:

 

We have! :)

 

I didn't get that move either. I wonder of Bob said something to Lavi and he 'benched' him.

[nobody]

We have! :)

 

I didn't get that move either. I wonder of Bob said something to Lavi and he 'benched' him.

 

 

Thought I read somewhere in one of these threads someone saying Bobrovsky had told Laviolette that he wasn't mentally prepared to keep playing.

[nobody]

Hey guys! Miss me?

 

Boucher is starting (no surprise there) but Leighton has been banished to Siberia. Bob will back up Boucher, now there's a novel; idea that would have had this series over by now.

 

Good luck, arent game 7s the best!!! :thumbsup:

 

 

Hope you continue to be the Sabres lucky charm!

[MattPie]

Thought I read somewhere in one of these threads someone saying Bobrovsky had told Laviolette that he wasn't mentally prepared to keep playing.

 

That's about the only thing that would make sense. You don't pull your #1 goalie and then rely on #2 and #3. Thanks!

[LGR4GM]

We had 5 defensemen under the age of 25 and we pushed one of the best offensive teams to game 7. What does this mean? Well it means that we must be sad about defeat but glad that we had the experience. Think about people, next year we will have at least 4 defensemen under 25 who have gone through an intense playoff series. We are better in the long run. Myers regained his freshmen form, MAG became a pp quarterback and showed why he was ahl defensemen of the year, Sekera was injured but when he played he at least showed up, butler was our weakest so ppl can comment how they want on him and Weber is the first defensemen we have had in years who operates under the "touch my goalie and die" philosophy. I have faith that within the next couple of years if we can sign 4 of these players to long term (5-8yr deals) we will have the best defensive corp in the nhl and could win cups with these guys.

 

Thoughts?

[OverPowerYou]

Our defense reminds me of Chicago's last year. A bunch of talented young players mixed in with a few veterans. Although ours isn't as good, they've shown flashes of greatness.

[CallawaySabres]

I think they DEFINITELY need to sign another top 2 Dman. They are not going to get the number one Center this off season so they should do whatever they can to save Miller from a modern day stoning....

[Grinder42]

I share your optimism and I even thought Butler minus the 2 turnovers and 2 bad penalties that eneded the series looked good at times. Myers,Webber,MAG, Sekera have to be here long term. We could use two Good D! Montador has proven over the pst 2 seasons he is not worthy of a playoff roster spot. Leopold is a casualty of the fact he is an offensive Defensemen on a roster loaded with them. I would love for Regeir to Listen to the New owner and put together a blockbuster Deal to acquire a Top Denfensemen looking for a new big contract. I'd be ok with parting ways with one of our youn offensive guys to do this. Probbaly not Myers or Webber.

 

Our Defense is bright our Goal-tending is bright. The development of Ennis and Gerbe along with the Portland Talent pool gives us the ability to go after some players and say farewell to others. Without knowledge of who is signed through next season.... I'd be ok with letting these no shows in the playoffs go elsewhere: Stafford,Connolly ( no one will take this used bag of pucks now with his head injury) Grier ( no Stamina on the decline) Neidenmeyer,Kaletta ( yes a fan favorite but injuries and dumb plays makes him less desirable) Boyes ( now we know why he was available at the deadline, could we find another non physical guy in a big mans body!)

 

Guys worth keeping:

Roy

Vanek

Pominville

Gerbe

Ennis

Goose

Hecht

 

Mix in Luke Adam and a few aquisitions and this team will look a whole lot better next season. I think this front office with the number of teams interested in reducing the cap may just find a taker or 2 for a trade.By no means do I want them to sign Stafford...we should have traded him this season.

[lalalalalaFontaine]

The young guys on the blue line made strides this year, but are far from amazing. Growing pains in the playoffs? Absolutely. Would I rather obtain some more reliable guys back there? Absolutely

[bunomatic]

We had 5 defensemen under the age of 25 and we pushed one of the best offensive teams to game 7. What does this mean? Well it means that we must be sad about defeat but glad that we had the experience. Think about people, next year we will have at least 4 defensemen under 25 who have gone through an intense playoff series. We are better in the long run. Myers regained his freshmen form, MAG became a pp quarterback and showed why he was ahl defensemen of the year, Sekera was injured but when he played he at least showed up, butler was our weakest so ppl can comment how they want on him and Weber is the first defensemen we have had in years who operates under the "touch my goalie and die" philosophy. I have faith that within the next couple of years if we can sign 4 of these players to long term (5-8yr deals) we will have the best defensive corp in the nhl and could win cups with these guys.

 

Thoughts?

I agree that our young guys have potential but make no mistake, Miller at times against Philly made our 'D' look good.

[LabattBlue]

The young guys on the blue line made strides this year, but are far from amazing. Growing pains in the playoffs? Absolutely. Would I rather obtain some more reliable guys back there? Absolutely

^^^ This.

[obstructedorangeseats]

I'd keep them all except Butler and Montador. Monty was disappointing because it seemed like he stepped it up last year at the end of the season, but meh. I don't agree that Leopold should be a 'casualty' because he's another offensive defenseman, he was solid for us. I'd like to see them invest in some physical defenders, more on the stay-at-home side than the offensive push. As others have said, by no means was our defensive corps "amazing," especially Butler. He made me want to throw the remote through my TV on several occasions.

[Weave]

The young guys on the blue line made strides this year, but are far from amazing. Growing pains in the playoffs? Absolutely. Would I rather obtain some more reliable guys back there? Absolutely

 

How did I miss this post. This is truthiness right here.

 

I loved what I saw out of Myers and Weber, well, for the first 4-5 games anyway. Butler had impressive moments and dog moments too. Grags did better than I expected but has weaknesses in his game, #1 being a real lack of physicality. We've seen and been on the Sekera rollercoaster before. I wish I could predict where his top end is.

 

IMO out of the young D men Myers and Weber are keepers. Wouldn't hurt my feelings any if one or some of the others ended up trade bait. I want a couple upper end vets in the defense corp next year so we'll have to make some room anyway.

[LGR4GM]

The young guys on the blue line made strides this year, but are far from amazing. Growing pains in the playoffs? Absolutely. Would I rather obtain some more reliable guys back there? Absolutely

 

We pushed the best offensive team in the east to game 7 so yup I say amazing. I would like to know which rookies (myers included) would you keep on this team since you want to go get more reliable guys. This is how teams are built. You get good hardworking rookies and then suffer for a couple of years while they learn. Thats one of the reason we sucked this year early on. Time will tell but I think 3 of our young guys could become the core of one of the greatest defenses this city and maybe even the nhl has ever seen.

 

I agree that our young guys have potential but make no mistake, Miller at times against Philly made our 'D' look good.

 

^there is a whole entire thread that would disagree with that. Thankfully I don't and will say thats why we need miller and I think it has helped our young guys grow knowing every tiny mistake will not cost them.

 

Everyone is yelling about a physical Stay at home dman... MIKE WEBER! other than the -3 crap of game 6 where he spent time with the not so amazing Butler he was solid in the playoffs and was solid in the regular season. He's 23 and big enough that he can be that hard nosed defensive defenseman. Now we just need 1 more to create a lock down line and Myers would be my choice because he also adds a scoring touch to the mix... I still think the future of our def is very bright and it is amazing in that regards.

[Rox11]

How did I miss this post. This is truthiness right here.

 

I loved what I saw out of Myers and Weber, well, for the first 4-5 games anyway. Butler had impressive moments and dog moments too. Grags did better than I expected but has weaknesses in his game, #1 being a real lack of physicality. We've seen and been on the Sekera rollercoaster before. I wish I could predict where his top end is.

 

IMO out of the young D men Myers and Weber are keepers. Wouldn't hurt my feelings any if one or some of the others ended up trade bait. I want a couple upper end vets in the defense corp next year so we'll have to make some room anyway.

I do want Myers and Weber around for a long time, Gragnani should easily be in the top four next year - plus a summer of him getting more bulk. My problem has always been Sekera. His offensive skills often show through, but when there's a D mstake, it most always seems costly. I really think with a strong Enroth - who played a huge role in getting them to the playoffs - playing 20-25 games, this team will be very dangerous. I'm not sold on Stafford and I guess I'm more optimistic about Boyes getting back to his 28-33 goal form.

The way this season ended was absolutely a disappointment, but there's a lot to look forward to IMO.

[deluca67]

Any interest in adding Tomas Kaberle to this group of young blueliners.