Should Enroth start Game 4?

[bunomatic]

In game 1, Miller looked like the Miiler of old, being in the right positions all game long and completely shutting down the Flyers. But in games 2 & 3, he's looked very average. Granted, there were a lot of penalties and defensive breakdowns in both games, but Miller also looked out of place, didn't have his body in the right position etc... I don't know if he's fully healed from his injuries or not. In your opinion, should Ruff shake things up and put Enroth in net to start Game 4?

 

(I don't know if this topic is already being discussed, so if it is, my apologies!)

No he shouldn't

[deluca67]

Hamilton said scouts said that they missed on Enroth. No glowing reviews just an admission that he was a prospect.

Scouts saying they really whiffed on this guy is saying he was just "a prospect?" :blink:

[tom webster]

He didn't make enough "incredible" saves to win them the game. That's what he gets paid for. I'm sure Gerard has had games where he made three "incredible" throws.

 

So he was supposed to stop every shot yesterday? Why shouldn't every forward that makes more then $900K score on every shot on Boucher? The only goal that I come even close to holding him accountable for in this series is the JVR goal that made it 3 to 3 in game 2.

 

I am, however, done with this argument because I know there is no convincing any of you who hold him accountable for every goal but expect every save. Go Sabres!

[deluca67]

So he was supposed to stop every shot yesterday? Why shouldn't every forward that makes more then $900K score on every shot on Boucher? The only goal that I come even close to holding him accountable for in this series is the JVR goal that made it 3 to 3 in game 2.

 

I am, however, done with this argument because I know there is no convincing any of you who hold him accountable for every goal but expect every save. Go Sabres!

Every good captain abandons his ship :doh:

[X. Benedict]

He didn't make enough "incredible" saves to win them the game. That's what he gets paid for. I'm sure Gerard has had games where he made three "incredible" throws.

 

I thought Miller made 7 or 8 very good saves on shots within 20 feet.

 

Zherdev, Giroux, and Briere had a couple. Carter had a couple deflections IIRC.

 

It sounds hollow after a loss, but those were high quality shots and solid saves that he swallowed or pushed to the corner without rebounds.

 

The incredible saves are usually the ones were the goalie is caught out of position and has to catch up to the play. Miller reads the play pretty well.

 

FWIW I think the better analogy is calling for Frank Reich to start. :beer:

[darksabre]

He didn't make enough "incredible" saves to win them the game. That's what he gets paid for. I'm sure Gerard has had games where he made three "incredible" throws.

 

You're trying to make "incredible" have the same weight as "ordinary". Yes, Miller needs to make "incredible" saves, but it's a little bit fanatical to expect him or any goaltender to make "just enough" incredible saves. That's like saying "well, he only made four incredible saves that game, and Boucher made five, so Boucher is better." Incredible saves are labeled as such because the odds of them being made are...incredible. If they were saves that a goaltender is expected to make most of the time, they wouldn't be "incredible".

[X. Benedict]

Every good captain abandons his ship :doh:

 

Seriously, do you think he has a good chance of changing your mind? :beer:

[deluca67]

You're trying to make "incredible" have the same weight as "ordinary". Yes, Miller needs to make "incredible" saves, but it's a little bit fanatical to expect him or any goaltender to make "just enough" incredible saves. That's like saying "well, he only made four incredible saves that game, and Boucher made five, so Boucher is better." Incredible saves are labeled as such because the odds of them being made are...incredible. If they were saves that a goaltender is expected to make most of the time, they wouldn't be "incredible".

"Incredible" more often or not means flashy not close to impossible. In comparison "incredible" for Miller is less than what was considered "incredible" for a goalie like Hasek.

 

You can also take "any goalie" out of the equation. Where are talking a big ticket face of the franchise goalie. The standards for "incredible" and expectations are not the same.

[deluca67]

Seriously, do you think he has a good chance of changing your mind? :beer:

It has happened.

[TheMatrix31]

Terrible idea to start Enroth. Not that he's not capable, but jeez, it's the playoffs. You go with your best guy regardless. What happens if Enroth crumbles and gives up 2 early ones and we're stuck battling back the rest of the time?

 

No. No. Bad idea.

[X. Benedict]

It has happened.

fair enough. :lol:

[SouthernSabre]

Miller is a headcase and has been up and down all year. He could come out and play great in the next game and then totally flop the game after that. He is not consistent, then again neither are the rest of the players!

[JJFIVEOH]

I'm not sure I "get" what is to be gained by starting Enroth. He's not a better goalie than Miller at this point. And I don't really buy that the team might get some sort of lift out of seeing their 2nd string goalie start a hugely important game.

 

For the 2 of you that have voted "yes" so far, what is the percieved benefit to starting Enroth over Miller?

 

Hey Weave, weren't you telling me in a recent thread about Enroth vs Lalime that no matter how well a goaltender plays he shouldn't be in net if his teams not winning? Or did that only apply to Patty?:rolleyes:

[Weave]

Hey Weave, weren't you telling me in a recent thread about Enroth vs Lalime that no matter how well a goaltender plays he shouldn't be in net if his teams not winning? Or did that only apply to Patty?:rolleyes:

 

I'm not getting what you are saying. Send a link or a quote? I honestly do not know/remember what you are refering to.

[Weave]

Hey Weave, weren't you telling me in a recent thread about Enroth vs Lalime that no matter how well a goaltender plays he shouldn't be in net if his teams not winning? Or did that only apply to Patty?:rolleyes:

 

 

I'm not getting what you are saying. Send a link or a quote? I honestly do not know/remember what you are refering to.

 

I did some searching. If you are referring to the Enroth vs Lalime thread I think you are mis-remembering or misunderstood me. I was trying to say that the team's lack of confidence in Lalime had as much to do with Lalime's won-lost record as his actual performance did. I didn't suggest that if the team isn't winning he shouldn't play.

 

Frankly, I was a bit of a Lalime appologist. I thought the team laid down on him every bit as often as he laid down on them. It was mutual.

 

And I don;t think that situation applies here as I don't sense that the team has lost confidence in Miller. And he did win game 1 so it isn't like they aren't winning at all in front of Miller.

[Raelity]

But the Sabres are losing one goal games (not counting that empty netter) so that one shot may be the difference. ;)

Well, we've lost two of those, and we've also won one. Once we win the next one people will settle down and this desperation talk will go away.

[SDS]

It has happened.

 

Changing from chili nachos to cheese fries isn't all that big of a deal...

[Taro T]

Very interesting discussion. I'd love to join in, but I'm posting from my phone today.

 

X & TW definitely see it the way I do (& are far more succinct ;) ). Thanks guys.

[JJFIVEOH]

I did some searching. If you are referring to the Enroth vs Lalime thread I think you are mis-remembering or misunderstood me. I was trying to say that the team's lack of confidence in Lalime had as much to do with Lalime's won-lost record as his actual performance did. I didn't suggest that if the team isn't winning he shouldn't play.

 

Frankly, I was a bit of a Lalime appologist. I thought the team laid down on him every bit as often as he laid down on them. It was mutual.

 

And I don;t think that situation applies here as I don't sense that the team has lost confidence in Miller. And he did win game 1 so it isn't like they aren't winning at all in front of Miller.

 

OK. Personally I don't think it will make a difference who starts. It's inevitable, if Miller plays and we win everybody will say 'I told you so'. If Enroth plays and we win, everybody will say 'I told you so'. Yeah he did win game 1 and looked great. It's only 2-1 and Philly got away with one last game. Tomorrow night will say a lot.

[johnyvegas]

IMO, at $6.2 mil a season it shouldn't be an issue at all. When you make that kind of investment you should have a clear advantage in goal over a team with a goalie making $900k. The Sabres don't have much of an advantage in goal if any. That needs to change in game #4 or you might as well have started Enroth.

 

My thoughts exactly. Announcers, media, fans etc speak of Miller in the "One of the best in the leauge" context all the time. But somehow I just never feel the confindence that 'one of the best in the league' should bring. I would say that on occastional nights (at best) miller looks like one of the best. I'd be completely comfortable with moving him and handing it over to Enroth next year. Miller needs to be.. and should be MUCH better for $6 mil.

[Weave]

OK. Personally I don't think it will make a difference who starts. It's inevitable, if Miller plays and we win everybody will say 'I told you so'. If Enroth plays and we win, everybody will say 'I told you so'. Yeah he did win game 1 and looked great. It's only 2-1 and Philly got away with one last game. Tomorrow night will say a lot.

 

I agree completely with the "I told you so's". It would happen either way.

[Figster]

Sure, why not start the rookie goaltender with 13 starts this year in a critical game 4. Goaltending is obviously the only issue with this team and everything can be blamed on the goalie. Its his fault the defence is having plenty of breakdowns, its his fault the forwards are struggling to score against Brian "Freakin" Boucher, and its his fault the team can't stay out of the penalty box. :rolleyes:

 

The fans are bringing this organisation down to Leafs level embarrassing

 

 

I'm know I'm repeating myself, Enroth secured 20 0f 28 points possible going a 9-2-2 (71%) and was a big contributing factor in the final push to make the playoffs. Ryan Millers 34-22-8 secured 76 of 132 points (57%)and he just allowed 8 goals over the last two losses. Millers balance has been off and he continues to put himself out of position by playing to aggressively

 

Enroth played well enough to deserve a chance to prove himself post season in my opinion.

 

Note: Miller is one of the best Goalies in the league when he's on his game and I get that, but Millers not at his best right now. Plus, and I'm not sure If its by nature, almost like a mama bear watching her cubs, but the Sabres seem to rally in front of Enroth in an effort to protect him.

[Eleven]

I wonder if there's a poll on the Vancouver boards about whether Luongo or Schneider should start Game 5. I'll bet not.

[MattPie]

I wonder if there's a poll on the Vancouver boards about whether Luongo or Schneider should start Game 5. I'll bet not.

 

What's 6 goals on 28 shots between friends? :)

[MattPie]

I'm know I'm repeating myself, Enroth secured 20 0f 28 points possible going a 9-2-2 (71%) and was a big contributing factor in the final push to make the playoffs. Ryan Millers 34-22-8 secured 76 of 132 points (57%)and he just allowed 8 goals over the last two losses. Millers balance has been off and he continues to put himself out of position by playing to aggressively

 

BS. You can't take an 11 game sample when the team is playing it's heart out and put it up against the rest of the season. 8 goals over two games is valid, but 8 goals over 3 games suddenly looks a lot better, doesn't it?