Miller vs. Boucher

[Weave]

I know it sounds all doom and gloom, and I've said similar things in the past, but seriously :

 

Did anyone here expect the same people to magically turn into a contender overnight just because they got a new owner?

 

Championship teams are built over time, and the perfect time to start is this off-season.

 

I dont' want this team to lose, but if losing means they become a better team down the stretch, then I have to say I don't mind as much. Or at least, that's what I keep telling myself. God, I hate the Cryers!

 

 

Yeah. And the folks talking that line a month or so ago were being taken to task for saying it.

 

I am reminded of something about a leopard and spots that don't change.

[Buffalo Wings]

I dont' want this team to lose, but if losing means they become a better team down the stretch, then I have to say I don't mind as much. Or at least, that's what I keep telling myself. God, I hate the Cryers!

Sorry, but I have a hard time saying that. I always want my team to keep winning, whether or not I expect them to. If they become a serious contender next year or the year after, then I can look back at this year and say that I didn't mind as much. But right now, we don't know if losing means they become a better team. All we know is that losing builds character.

 

Don't get me wrong...I don't expect them to make a run and get to the finals like the Phlyers did last year, but I just want the ride to go as long as possible.

[Eleven]

Yeah. And the folks talking that line a month or so ago were being taken to task for saying it.

 

I am reminded of something about a leopard and spots that don't change.

 

It's the middle two sentences that are the important ones.

[Kristian]

Sorry, but I have a hard time saying that. I always want my team to keep winning, whether or not I expect them to. If they become a serious contender next year or the year after, then I can look back at this year and say that I didn't mind as much. But right now, we don't know if losing means they become a better team. All we know is that losing builds character.

 

Don't get me wrong...I don't expect them to make a run and get to the finals like the Phlyers did last year, but I just want the ride to go as long as possible.

 

I completely understand and echo those sentiments, but the way we've seen excuse after excuse for not improving the team over the past 3 or 4 years has left me more cynical than I would like.

 

At this point, I'm downright scared Philly may implode and Buffalo moves on without really earning it, as I fear it may lead to no steps being taken to move forward from the Golisano era.

 

I'm exaggerating a bit, but I think you know what I mean.

[shrader]

I think if he saved #2 or #3 they would have been holy week miracles. :beer:

 

He was hung out to dry. I didn't see Boucher hung out.

 

Darren Pang kept constantly commenting about how Miller fell down on the 2nd goal. I was shocked that that he never actually figured out why. Miller was bumped by the Flyer who stole the puck from the Butler and made the centering pass (forget who that was). It wasn't a bump that would draw an interference call, but the contact was clearly made.

[Buffalo Wings]

Darren Pang kept constantly commenting about how Miller fell down on the 2nd goal. I was shocked that that he never actually figured out why. Miller was bumped by the Flyer who stole the puck from the Butler and made the centering pass (forget who that was). It wasn't a bump that would draw an interference call, but the contact was clearly made.

Pretty sure that was Hartnell. I'll have to look at the replay again, but I wasn't sure if Butler over-skated the puck or Hartnell lifted Butler's stick. Either way, Miller went down pretty quickly - probably anticipating Hartnell would take the shot.

 

Speaking of going down quickly, it seemed like Boucher did that a number of times. I can remember three different instances where he dropped to his knees quickly - on Ennis' shot that (supposedly) knocked part of his mask loose, on Gaustad's point-blank chance where he whiffed on the first try, and on another Gaustad chance where he came from behind the net. On the last instance, I thought Gaustad could have gone high with the shot because Boucher was already on his knees. Plus, both goals were top-shelf...I haven't seen enough of Boucher, but if there are chances w/o a Philly defender in front...shoot high.

[Weave]

It's the middle two sentences that are the important ones.

 

I agree. My point was, those that said this team still isn't a contender in February were chastised for not acknowledging the lightning in a bottle theory was realistic.

 

And no way everyone's favorite whipping boy gets a "good post" if the last line in on of his posts read;

I dont' want this team to lose, but if losing means they become a better team down the stretch, then I have to say I don't mind as much.

cuz that was essentially what was said here in the middle of the season and it was roundly shouted down by the masses as the words of a non-fan.

[wonderbread]

I agree. My point was, those that said this team still isn't a contender in February were chastised for not acknowledging the lightning in a bottle theory was realistic.

 

And no way everyone's favorite whipping boy gets a "good post" if the last line in on of his posts read; cuz that was essentially what was said here in the middle of the season and it was roundly shouted down by the masses as the words of a non-fan.

 

Move on dude. :thumbsup:

[bunomatic]

Even if Boucher and the Flyers beat the Sabres and Miller this series ask any G.M. in the league who they would take to backstop their team and we all know what the answer would be. Heck, ask Philly to trade Boucher straight up for Miller. It would be looked at as the steal of the century by anyone that knows anything about hockey.

[bunomatic]

Pretty sure that was Hartnell. I'll have to look at the replay again, but I wasn't sure if Butler over-skated the puck or Hartnell lifted Butler's stick. Either way, Miller went down pretty quickly - probably anticipating Hartnell would take the shot.

 

Speaking of going down quickly, it seemed like Boucher did that a number of times. I can remember three different instances where he dropped to his knees quickly - on Ennis' shot that (supposedly) knocked part of his mask loose, on Gaustad's point-blank chance where he whiffed on the first try, and on another Gaustad chance where he came from behind the net. On the last instance, I thought Gaustad could have gone high with the shot because Boucher was already on his knees. Plus, both goals were top-shelf...I haven't seen enough of Boucher, but if there are chances w/o a Philly defender in front...shoot high.

I think the puck stopped on wet ice. A puddle from the zamboni behind the net which is common if overflooded.

[apuszczalowski]

I thought that it was Butler who skated too close to Miller and tripped him up on that play, I don't think the Flyers player touched him. The puck hit the defencemen stick on the second goal and was redirected, not an impossible save, but not an easy one either. And I don't care who you are, that would have been a candidate for Save of the year if Miller would have saved the Zherdev goal, there was one defencemen back and Zherdev couldn't have been more open at the side of the net.

 

Miller has not been playing bad and he has been keeping them in games giving them a chance to win, he just hasn't been playing spectacular and stealing games for them. Boucher hasn't been stealing games or being spectacular for the Flyers either, the Sabres just aren't making it difficult for him. They are taking shots, but they are just firing it right at him.

 

As for management looking at an early loss this year and making changes in the offseason, I think we saw and said the same things last year, why would next year be any different? We saw the same old stuff from Darcy at the trade deadline this year, I will believe it when I see it if we don't see the same old stuff this offseason from Darcy too (I bet he is working extra hard right now to get Timmy resigned!)

 

As for Millers salary, $6 mil is not huge money in the NHL, the Sabres are paying more for Vanek, only a million less for Pomminstein, and only about 2 million each less for Connolly, Roy, and Boyes.

 

Right now Miller ($6.25mil) makes less than (actual salary, not cap hit) Luongo ($10mil), Lundqvist ($7.75mil), Giguere and Kipprusoff ($7mil), and Vokoun ($6.3mil). He is making just slightly more then Backstrum and Thomas ($6mil) and Huet ($5.625mil), Fleury ($5.5mil), Brodeur ($5.2 mil) and Ward ($5mil).

 

Meanwhile Pomminstein ($5.5mil) is making more then Perry ($5.375mil) and St. Louis ($4mil), Vanek ($6.4mil) is making more then Kovalchuck ($6mil), Smyth ($5.5mil) and Daniel Sedin ($6.1mil), and Connolly is making $4.5 mil this year (which places him tied at 29th highest paid centre in the league!)

[Robviously]

Even if Boucher and the Flyers beat the Sabres and Miller this series ask any G.M. in the league who they would take to backstop their team and we all know what the answer would be. Heck, ask Philly to trade Boucher straight up for Miller. It would be looked at as the steal of the century by anyone that knows anything about hockey.

I don't think anyone denies that Miller is the best goalie on either team. I just don't think it matters all that much. I'd rather have better forwards or defense. It's not like Bobrovsky and Boucher are terrible just because they aren't as good as Miller.

[apuszczalowski]

I don't think anyone denies that Miller is the best goalie on either team. I just don't think it matters all that much. I'd rather have better forwards or defense. It's not like Bobrovsky and Boucher are terrible just because they aren't as good as Miller.

The Flyers are spending around $4mil more then Buffalo this year according to the Cap numbers.

 

The Flyers currently have $4.225 mil tied up in goaltending compared to Buffalo with $7.766

 

The Flyers currently have +/- $35.5 mil tied up in Forwards (Briere @ $6.5, Richards @ $5.75, Carter at $5, and Hartnell @ $4.2 the highest paid) compared to Buffalo with $40.342 tied up in Forwards (Vanek @ $7.142, Pomminstein @$5.3, Connolly @ $4.5 and Roy and Boyes both @ $4 being the highest paid) (Buffalo also has 7 forwards making under $1 mil)

 

The Flyers currently have +/- $24.3 mil tied up in Defence (Timonen @ $6.333, Pronger @ $4.921, Meszaros @ $4, and Carle @ $3.437 the highest paid) compared to Buffalo with +/- $10.8 mil tied up in defence (Leopold @ $3, Morrison @ $2.075, Montador @ $1.55 and Myers @ $1.3 being the highest paid, Rivet was making $3.5 and is costing them $1.75 for not being on the team)

 

Looking at the breakdown, to me I don't think trading a $6 mil goalie for a $6 mil forward or defencemen is really going to make the Sabres a better team compared to the Flyers, the problem seems to be that a team like the Flyers has spent their money on better players and on their defence, while Buffalo has been overpaying for mediocre guys.

 

Everyone is looking in the wrong direction for cost saving right now......

[Kristian]

As for management looking at an early loss this year and making changes in the offseason, I think we saw and said the same things last year, why would next year be any different? We saw the same old stuff from Darcy at the trade deadline this year, I will believe it when I see it if we don't see the same old stuff this offseason from Darcy too (I bet he is working extra hard right now to get Timmy resigned!)

 

 

I have to believe that won't be the case.

 

If you're right, then there effectively will be no difference in having Golisano/Quinn or Pegula/Black in charge.

 

I simple refuse to believe Pegula and Black will look at this roster, IF (still at least 2 games to play) they fall short in next to the exact same way they did last year (which is exactly what they're in the process of doing), and go "Oh well, it's good group of guys, and they'll only get better down the stretch, let's overpay for Stafford and bring back Connolly".

 

Ted Black doesn't strike me as being such a guy (they waived Rivet), and Pegula's remarks of Buffalo becoming "hockey heaven" don't exactly indicate that they're not looking to be at least somewhat active in free agency.

[Kristian]

I think the puck stopped on wet ice. A puddle from the zamboni behind the net which is common if overflooded.

 

I never realised the phrase "there's something wrong in this organisation from the owner down to the zamboni driver" had any truth to it :thumbsup:

[apuszczalowski]

I have to believe that won't be the case.

 

If you're right, then there effectively will be no difference in having Golisano/Quinn or Pegula/Black in charge.

 

I simple refuse to believe Pegula and Black will look at this roster, IF (still at least 2 games to play) they fall short in next to the exact same way they did last year (which is exactly what they're in the process of doing), and go "Oh well, it's good group of guys, and they'll only get better down the stretch, let's overpay for Stafford and bring back Connolly".

 

Ted Black doesn't strike me as being such a guy (they waived Rivet), and Pegula's remarks of Buffalo becoming "hockey heaven" don't exactly indicate that they're not looking to be at least somewhat active in free agency.

with the same GM in charge, its likely it would be the same. Even when Regier was allowed to spend to the cap, he was never active in FA, he just gave the guys here raises. With a cap in place, and most of the higher (overpaid) guys still locked up for a few more years, theres not much room under the cap to play with unless he gets busy making some trades, but i doubt they find someone willing to take a Pomminstein, or Boyes, or Vanek off their hands without them having to take a contract back. Theres about $4-5mil available under the cap now, and most of the FA's look like they are all guys making less than $1.5 mil)

[Robviously]

with the same GM in charge, its likely it would be the same. Even when Regier was allowed to spend to the cap, he was never active in FA, he just gave the guys here raises. With a cap in place, and most of the higher (overpaid) guys still locked up for a few more years, theres not much room under the cap to play with unless he gets busy making some trades, but i doubt they find someone willing to take a Pomminstein, or Boyes, or Vanek off their hands without them having to take a contract back. Theres about $4-5mil available under the cap now, and most of the FA's look like they are all guys making less than $1.5 mil)

Who do you want to trade Vanek for?

[Kristian]

with the same GM in charge, its likely it would be the same. Even when Regier was allowed to spend to the cap, he was never active in FA, he just gave the guys here raises. With a cap in place, and most of the higher (overpaid) guys still locked up for a few more years, theres not much room under the cap to play with unless he gets busy making some trades, but i doubt they find someone willing to take a Pomminstein, or Boyes, or Vanek off their hands without them having to take a contract back. Theres about $4-5mil available under the cap now, and most of the FA's look like they are all guys making less than $1.5 mil)

 

Connolly is a UFA, and I have to believe that's 4.5 mill. off the books right there. If not, Darcy should be run out of town in the dead of night.

 

Also, the eternal optimist in me tells me Regier won't be the GM for long unless he starts changing the way he acts when it comes to strenghtening the team.

 

Either that, or it's Golisano/Quinn all over again, and I think I'll take a few years off from watching hockey, simpy because it's too painful to watch.

[apuszczalowski]

Who do you want to trade Vanek for?

I'm not saying I would be actively looking to trade him, the point I was making was that if they want to make a big splash in the FA pool, most of the money is tied up in guys making big money, and not many teams are going to want to take on those contracts without getting one in return

[Miss_The_Amerks]

I think it was Zherdevs goal, that Miller didn't make, and I guess my gripes with the Miller situation is this: People have said that in the last part of the season, Enroth was "making saves he had no business making" and I know most of these playoff goals have not been Miller's fault, but when is our $6.2 MILLION DOLLAR goalie going to start making saves he has no business making? Like I said in another thread, for what we pay for Miller, he needs to start stealing games, rather than keeping us JUST within striking distance.

[X. Benedict]

I think it was Zherdevs goal, that Miller didn't make......

 

I'm not in the best skating shape. ..... but I think I could have tapped that one home.

 

Goaltender takes shooter. (Richards)

Defensemen takes the pass. (Zherdev)

 

Monty went the wrong way. :(

 

Slam dunk.

[Miss_The_Amerks]

I was wrong, there was a shot from the circle or something that went over Miller's left shoulder (between him and nearside post).

[Taro T]

I think it was Zherdevs goal, that Miller didn't make, and I guess my gripes with the Miller situation is this: People have said that in the last part of the season, Enroth was "making saves he had no business making" and I know most of these playoff goals have not been Miller's fault, but when is our $6.2 MILLION DOLLAR goalie going to start making saves he has no business making? Like I said in another thread, for what we pay for Miller, he needs to start stealing games, rather than keeping us JUST within striking distance.

He shut them out in game 1. Does he have to steal every one?

 

Enroth's saves will always look more spectacular than Miller's because he isn't big enough to play Miller's positionally sound game.

[X. Benedict]

He shut them out in game 1. Does he have to steal every one?

 

Enroth's saves will always look more spectacular than Miller's because he isn't big enough to play Miller's positionally sound game.

 

I agree. When Enroth was pulled in the home season final against Philly...you could immediately tell how much of a size difference there is.

[Bmwolf21]

Pretty sure that was Hartnell. I'll have to look at the replay again, but I wasn't sure if Butler over-skated the puck or Hartnell lifted Butler's stick. Either way, Miller went down pretty quickly - probably anticipating Hartnell would take the shot.

IIRC Hartnell smacked or pushed Butler's stick right up around the hands/buttend which contributed to him losing the puck.

 

I'm not in the best skating shape. ..... but I think I could have tapped that one home.

 

Goaltender takes shooter. (Richards)

Defensemen takes the pass. (Zherdev)

 

Monty went the wrong way. :(

 

Slam dunk.

Bingo.

 

He shut them out in game 1. Does he have to steal every one?

 

Enroth's saves will always look more spectacular than Miller's because he isn't big enough to play Miller's positionally sound game.

:thumbsup: