Game Discussion Thread

[Robviously]

I don't see how anyone can really be giving Vanek any grief when he is stuck on a line with Connolly and Pominville - two players that have been constantly called out for their play so far. Lindy needs to give Vanek some linemates who will actually be able to take his passes and score. Vanek Gaustad Gerbe? I'd even try Boyes back with Vanek like the few early games Boyes was here (was it with Ennis as the other linemate?) Actually I would do both of those lines - double shift Vanek or alternate Vanek and Gerbe on the second line.

 

Also - give Vanek and Gerbe a few shifts on the PK.

Definitely try Gerbe-Gaustad-Vanek. Gerbe is our most dynamic player right now and Vanek is our best scorer. Seems like a no-brainer.

 

It's not like we have anything to lose. We're not getting a lot done 5 on 5.

[nfreeman]

So, "rise to the occasion" only matters when YOU want it to matter? Well great, all hail Daniel Briere for "rising to the occasion" during Game 2 of the Conference Quarterfinals and letting a puck hit him in the skate. :rolleyes:

 

Too bad his left foot was out to lunch in Game 7 of the Conference FINALS, when the stakes were just a little bit higher. but, you can praise his 3 goals in the 2007 playoffs (I apologize for referencing the 2006/2007 season - it was terribly confusing I'm sure) and praise his left foot this year, while crapping on Vanek who also has scored 2 goals and has a virtual assist on Stafford's goal, who also plays without a decent center. That's ok. It's not like Vanek is on your team and Briere's day in the Buffalo sun was 5 years ago.

I don't understand the bolded statement. I provided a stat covering SIX playoff seasons to counter (effectively, I thought) your stats about ONE playoff season and one playoff GAME.

 

Yes, Briere failed to deliver in the game you mentioned. He also had 4 goals and 2 assists in that series, including the OT GWG plus an assist in a 2-1 win in game 6 of the conference finals to force game 7. Let me know when any current Sabre other than Miller comes close to that kind of clutch playoff performance.

 

Do you think Briere scoring the goal off his skate the other night was a complete accident? Or perhaps was it a designed play where he goes to the net and the shooter tries to get it to him?

 

As for Vanek being on my team -- do you think you want the Sabres to win any more than I do?

 

In order to have a winning team that is consistently in the hunt (like, say, Briere's Sabres team), management needs to make the right personnel decisions. When I see people consistently touting Vanek for captain, bemoaning Roy's injury, excusing Pommer's perennial playoff disappearance, and referring to Briere as "B-Rod," I worry about the risk of prior mistakes being repeated.

 

I don't think they'd trade a fan favorite like Kaleta this summer, but his long term future with the Sabres is probably in doubt. He's not all that durable and we have bigger, stronger guys on the way to take his place.

I don't think they'll trade Kaleta because (i) Lindy likes him and (ii) they wouldn't get much for a guy who can't stay healthy. I'd expect him back on the Sabres next year, as Kassian will most likely require a year in the A before he's ready for the show.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Looks like Hamilton is feeling a bit burned/paranoid about not getting the scoop on Leopold - now he's all over Roy:

 

http://wgr550.com/Sabres-Roy-could-be-ready-soon/9655121

 

From the practice reports, it doesn't sound like Roy is ready at all, but apparently Lindy is pretty sneaky.

 

In other news, did you hear Leopold's comment to the reporters about his return? "...you guys are gullible..."

 

Good for Leo....he really got them good. His presence was obviously felt as the team let in a goal less from the previous game.

 

Hamilton should be sure to tell him to remember to use the good hand to shake, later in the week.

[nfreeman]

Without context, that rub is meaningless.

 

My point, is that the over the top Briere ballwashing is nauseating in comparison to treatment Vanek/Stafford are getting. Briere's play has been anything but noteworthy this series and for people to insinuate his left foot would have certainly scored for us if we had just given him his 5/5 is a ridiculous exercise if self-gratification.

So, if I understand this correctly - Briere gets lots of kudos from you because HIS LINE has (according to you) has generated many chances, but Vanek is a POS even though the other guys on his line aren't pulling their weight? Vanek needs to be more productive with worse linemates because he's.... paid the same amount as Briere?

Holy clouding the issue with a bunch of miscellaneous crap, batman!

 

I'm not "insinuating" anything. I am stating, unambiguously, that:

 

1. Briere has been and is a much better playoff performer than any forward on the Sabres.

 

2. If Briere were on this Sabres roster, he'd be more productive than any forward currently on the roster.

 

3. HE AND HIS LINE (which is what I wrote originally -- not just "his line" -- but don't let the facts get in your way) are creating much more offense than any Sabres line. He is the center on that line and as such deserves a substantial portion of the credit for that line creating scoring chances. FWIW, Briere has had a number of different linemates since the lockout -- and guess what? He's still FIRST in the NHL in playoff scoring since then.

 

4. I didn't say Vanek is a POS. I said he's been pretty much invisible other than a brief spurt on the PP early in a game that the Sabres lost. I also said that the highest paid-player on the team can't disappear in the playoffs like this and be seriously considered as captain material. Do you disagree? Do you want Vanek as captain next year?

 

5. And yes, Vanek, if he's an elite player, is supposed to lift up his linemates and get the line as a whole to deliver more than what they've been delivering.

 

6. Vanek isn't nearly as good as Heatley -- and Heatley isn't good enough to be the best forward on a cup contender.

 

It gives me no pleasure to say these things, or to bicker with you. It hurts to watch this series unfold like this. I just don't want anyone to kid himself about what this team has and what it needs.

[spndnchz]

Looks like Hamilton is feeling a bit burned/paranoid about not getting the scoop on Leopold - now he's all over Roy:

 

http://wgr550.com/Sa...dy-soon/9655121

 

From the practice reports, it doesn't sound like Roy is ready at all, but apparently Lindy is pretty sneaky.

 

In other news, did you hear Leopold's comment to the reporters about his return? "...you guys are gullible..."

 

It would be great to have him back. We need more of his creativity.

[Robviously]

4. I didn't say Vanek is a POS. I said he's been pretty much invisible other than a brief spurt on the PP early in a game that the Sabres lost. I also said that the highest paid-player on the team can't disappear in the playoffs like this and be seriously considered as captain material. Do you disagree? Do you want Vanek as captain next year?

 

5. And yes, Vanek, if he's an elite player, is supposed to lift up his linemates and get the line as a whole to deliver more than what they've been delivering.

 

6. Vanek isn't nearly as good as Heatley -- and Heatley isn't good enough to be the best forward on a cup contender.

Your anti-Vanek arguments are tiresome. You're complaining about him "disappearing" in the playoffs when he may have been our best player in the playoffs last year. Were you this upset when Miller was outplayed by Boston's back-up in last year's playoffs? Which other Sabres have two goals in the first three playoff games this year? And is two goals in three games not a good pace?

 

You're also pointing out that his two goals came in a game we lost. It's his fault we lost that game? He couldn't even get on the ice for much of it because his teammates lost their mind and couldn't stay out of the penalty box. He's a minus this series but which goals were actually due to his bad decisions?

 

You talk about Vanek "lifting up his linemates." One of his linemates is Tim Connolly, who hasn't scored in the playoffs in 25 games. What is Vanek supposed to do about this? The other is Pominville, whose powerplay decisions are beyond horrible at this point. Realistically, what can he do? You can throw out something vague like "Lift up your teammates!" but that's not actually a solution.

 

He was a big part of Stafford's goal last night even without earning an assist. Is that not lifting up teammates or making a difference or what? Would he have been doing a better job if that puck had grazed Vanek's stick on the way into the net?

 

Lastly, what does Dany Heatley have to do with anything?

[K-9]

Holy clouding the issue with a bunch of miscellaneous crap, batman!

 

I'm not "insinuating" anything. I am stating, unambiguously, that:

 

1. Briere has been and is a much better playoff performer than any forward on the Sabres.

 

2. If Briere were on this Sabres roster, he'd be more productive than any forward currently on the roster.

 

3. HE AND HIS LINE (which is what I wrote originally -- not just "his line" -- but don't let the facts get in your way) are creating much more offense than any Sabres line. He is the center on that line and as such deserves a substantial portion of the credit for that line creating scoring chances. FWIW, Briere has had a number of different linemates since the lockout -- and guess what? He's still FIRST in the NHL in playoff scoring since then.

 

4. I didn't say Vanek is a POS. I said he's been pretty much invisible other than a brief spurt on the PP early in a game that the Sabres lost. I also said that the highest paid-player on the team can't disappear in the playoffs like this and be seriously considered as captain material. Do you disagree? Do you want Vanek as captain next year?

 

5. And yes, Vanek, if he's an elite player, is supposed to lift up his linemates and get the line as a whole to deliver more than what they've been delivering.

 

6. Vanek isn't nearly as good as Heatley -- and Heatley isn't good enough to be the best forward on a cup contender.

 

It gives me no pleasure to say these things, or to bicker with you. It hurts to watch this series unfold like this. I just don't want anyone to kid himself about what this team has and what it needs.

 

How, exactly, would Briere be more productive than Vanek when he would have to play with the same "lame" players you cited in your earlier post?

 

GO SABRES!!!

[SDS]

You talk about Vanek "lifting up his linemates." One of his linemates is Tim Connolly, who hasn't scored in the playoffs in 25 games. What is Vanek supposed to do about this? The other is Pominville, whose powerplay decisions are beyond horrible at this point. Realistically, what can he do? You can throw out something vague like "Lift up your teammates!" but that's not actually a solution.

 

 

 

How, exactly, would Briere be more productive than Vanek when he would have to play with the same "lame" players you cited in your earlier post?

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

Well, it all makes sense if you don't think about it.

[Braedon]

So, "rise to the occasion" only matters when YOU want it to matter? Well great, all hail Daniel Briere for "rising to the occasion" during Game 2 of the Conference Quarterfinals and letting a puck hit him in the skate. :rolleyes:

 

Too bad his left foot was out to lunch in Game 7 of the Conference FINALS, when the stakes were just a little bit higher. but, you can praise his 3 goals in the 2007 playoffs (I apologize for referencing the 2006/2007 season - it was terribly confusing I'm sure) and praise his left foot this year, while crapping on Vanek who also has scored 2 goals and has a virtual assist on Stafford's goal, who also plays without a decent center. That's ok. It's not like Vanek is on your team and Briere's day in the Buffalo sun was 5 years ago.

 

 

Briere contributed 6 pts to the 07 ECF, but was -3 and played when he wanted to. Continous boxing out along the boards without fighting through it. Revisionist history, you see him producing against you and so conveniently forget the black marks against him.

[SwampD]

Without context, that rub is meaningless.

 

My point, is that the over the top Briere ballwashing is nauseating in comparison to treatment Vanek/Stafford are getting. Briere's play has been anything but noteworthy this series and for people to insinuate his left foot would have certainly scored for us if we had just given him his 5/5 is a ridiculous exercise if self-gratification.

You need to stop with that left foot thing. I agree with your point but not because you keep say Danny got lucky with his skate. Would it have been a skill goal if he put his stick at the same angle as his foot to tip the puck in? It took just as much skill to do it with his foot and it was pretty amazing. It was not luck.

[nfreeman]

Your anti-Vanek arguments are tiresome. You're complaining about him "disappearing" in the playoffs when he may have been our best player in the playoffs last year. Were you this upset when Miller was outplayed by Boston's back-up in last year's playoffs? Which other Sabres have two goals in the first three playoff games this year? And is two goals in three games not a good pace?

 

You're also pointing out that his two goals came in a game we lost. It's his fault we lost that game? He couldn't even get on the ice for much of it because his teammates lost their mind and couldn't stay out of the penalty box. He's a minus this series but which goals were actually due to his bad decisions?

 

You talk about Vanek "lifting up his linemates." One of his linemates is Tim Connolly, who hasn't scored in the playoffs in 25 games. What is Vanek supposed to do about this? The other is Pominville, whose powerplay decisions are beyond horrible at this point. Realistically, what can he do? You can throw out something vague like "Lift up your teammates!" but that's not actually a solution.

 

He was a big part of Stafford's goal last night even without earning an assist. Is that not lifting up teammates or making a difference or what? Would he have been doing a better job if that puck had grazed Vanek's stick on the way into the net?

 

Lastly, what does Dany Heatley have to do with anything?

Yes, he may have been the Sabres' best player in the playoffs last year -- but that is largely because his teammates crapped the bed. Vanek was got injured in the first period of game 2 of that series and didn't return until game 6. Of course, that isn't his fault, but it's not like he delivered a huge playoff series and helped the team advance.

 

Did I say that it was his fault that the Sabres lost game 2 vs. Philly? No. The point was that other than a brief spurt early in that game (which didn't lead to a win), he's been invisible in this series. If you've got something to counter the point that I actually made, let's hear it.

 

The Heatley point was admittedly free association, but the idea is simply that a winger who can light the lamp isn't automatically an elite player or a captain. It takes much more, including the ability to, yes, inspire, demand and extract better play from one's teammates.

 

I'm not saying they should waive Vanek (although I do think they should waive Pommer). He's a good player. But I want everyone who thinks he's an elite player and/or that he should be captain next year to look hard at what he and the rest of the alleged "top 6" are delivering when it really matters.

 

How, exactly, would Briere be more productive than Vanek when he would have to play with the same "lame" players you cited in your earlier post?

 

GO SABRES!!!

Again -- Briere has consistently delivered in crunch time, with a variety of different linemates. It's not a coincidence.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

You need to stop with that left foot thing. I agree with your point but not because you keep say Danny got lucky with his skate. Would it have been a skill goal if he put his stick at the same angle as his foot to tip the puck in? It took just as much skill to do it with his foot and it was pretty amazing. It was not luck.

 

It shows skill and smarts and clutch timing.

 

I'm sure if Vanek put a goal in from behind the net that deflected off the pads of the goalie, there's be a five alarm circle jerk coming from him.

[darksabre]

It shows skill and smarts and clutch timing.

 

I'm sure if Vanek put a goal in from behind the net that deflected off the pads of the goalie, there's be a five alarm circle jerk coming from him.

 

I'd just want to know why Hecht was wearing Vanek's jersey.

[spndnchz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tICK0MC2iPQ

[K-9]

Yes, he may have been the Sabres' best player in the playoffs last year -- but that is largely because his teammates crapped the bed. Vanek was got injured in the first period of game 2 of that series and didn't return until game 6. Of course, that isn't his fault, but it's not like he delivered a huge playoff series and helped the team advance.

 

Did I say that it was his fault that the Sabres lost game 2 vs. Philly? No. The point was that other than a brief spurt early in that game (which didn't lead to a win), he's been invisible in this series. If you've got something to counter the point that I actually made, let's hear it.

 

The Heatley point was admittedly free association, but the idea is simply that a winger who can light the lamp isn't automatically an elite player or a captain. It takes much more, including the ability to, yes, inspire, demand and extract better play from one's teammates.

 

I'm not saying they should waive Vanek (although I do think they should waive Pommer). He's a good player. But I want everyone who thinks he's an elite player and/or that he should be captain next year to look hard at what he and the rest of the alleged "top 6" are delivering when it really matters.

 

 

Again -- Briere has consistently delivered in crunch time, with a variety of different linemates. It's not a coincidence.

 

Well, since I asked specifically how Briere would be more productive than Vanek playing with all of those lame forwards you previously cited and you say it's because Briere has done it in the past with a variety of linemates, then the problem must be Vanek. You seem to be saying if Briere played for us right now he would be productive regardless of having to play with all those lame forwards you cited previously. Would he be the only one producing or would all those lame forwards be getting it done with him?

 

GO SABRES!!!

[SDS]

there's be a five alarm circle jerk coming from him.

 

Coming from who?

[K-9]

It shows skill and smarts and clutch timing.

 

I'm sure if Vanek put a goal in from behind the net that deflected off the pads of the goalie, there's be a five alarm circle jerk coming from him.

 

Would this be taking place at center ice or around one of the face-off circles?

 

GO SABRES!!!

[darksabre]

Looks like someone has been reading my suggestions ;)

 

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=560279

 

"According to Sabres goalie Ryan Miller, "boring hockey" might be the best path to success for his team going into Game 4 on Wednesday..."

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tICK0MC2iPQ

 

Lucky ;)

[SDS]

It shows skill and smarts and clutch timing.

 

Let's not over play the hand here. You're working with a pair of 5's at best.

 

The puck was shot right at his skate. Give him credit for rotating it 10 degrees or so, but it was still "lucky" it went inside the post. The best anyone can hope for in any tip is to get the redirection on net. I doubt Danny himself would declare that he did anything beyond attempting to put it on net.

 

As for clutch timing... what was "clutch" about a 2nd period goal again? Is this one of those "rise to the occasion" when you get to pick the "occasion" assertions?

[X. Benedict]

Let's not over play the hand here. You're working with a pair of 5's at best.

 

The puck was shot right at his skate. Give him credit for rotating it 10 degrees or so, but it was still "lucky" it went inside the post. The best anyone can hope for in any tip is to get the redirection on net. I doubt Danny himself would declare that he did anything beyond attempting to put it on net.

 

As for clutch timing... what was "clutch" about a 2nd period goal again? Is this one of those "rise to the occasion" when you get to pick the "occasion" assertions?

 

I think Briere was surprised it went in. You have to give Briere credit for getting to the spot. Nice play - but it was more plumber than Picasso.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Let's not over play the hand here. You're working with a pair of 5's at best.

 

The puck was shot right at his skate. Give him credit for rotating it 10 degrees or so, but it was still "lucky" it went inside the post. The best anyone can hope for in any tip is to get the redirection on net. I doubt Danny himself would declare that he did anything beyond attempting to put it on net.

 

As for clutch timing... what was "clutch" about a 2nd period goal again? Is this one of those "rise to the occasion" when you get to pick the "occasion" assertions?

 

I never trumpeted Briere as the second coming, but the guy made a heads up play in the playoffs to help win a game. Was Gerbe's 45 foot spinorama backhand anything special?

[DR HOLLIDAY]

Agree with all of this, except where the hell was he all year long?

 

Gaustad has been playing great for months now, and for the playoffs he has taken it up another notch......... :beer:

[X. Benedict]

I never trumpeted Briere as the second coming, but the guy made a heads up play in the playoffs to help win a game. Was Gerbe's 45 foot spinorama backhand anything special?

It was special to me. :thumbsup:

[X. Benedict]

Agree with all of this, except where the hell was he all year long?

I think this has been his best year. Gerbe has helped Gaustad's possession game a ton. Earlier Goose would dig it out the puck and it wouldn't come back, now with Gerbe it comes back.