Game Discussion Thread

[SabresMojo]

Schopp observed last Friday that league-wide, 5-on-3 goals seem to be less and less frequent because teams are screwing around with the puck too much rather than getting a man in front of the net and shooting away. I don't have stats--but I think he's right. A 5-on-3 used to be a virtually guaranteed score; now, not a near automatic at all. I've watched lots of teams kill those off recently (Buffalo, Filly, and Detroit within the last few days). There should be a big body right in front of the paint and four guys moving the puck around and shooting it--and not five guys around the perimeter. I wonder why lots of teams are making this mistake.

 

Attached are stats for 5v3 for this past Regular Season I compiled into an excel sheet...

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AinvDZlEq6nXdGduemRhMEUybHhyWThQQ3RwbDdzWnc&hl=en

 

Very low numbers for the most part.

[bunomatic]

Rick Jeanneret's call on the 5 on 3 "Connolly wins the faceoff back to Pomminstein, over to connolly, he doesn't shoot, back to Pomminstein, pominville holding onto the puck looking for the open man, now back to connolly, connolly along the half wall, back to pominville, he winds up and passes over to connolly, connolly wheels around and is pressure but he gets the puck back to pominville, He doesnt shoot..." AND it goes on and on and on... TAKE A FREAKING ONE TIMER!!!!

Watching that was like nails on a chalkboard. The Sabres did a terrific job of killing off that 5-3.

[Kristian]

Watching that was like nails on a chalkboard. The Sabres did a terrific job of killing off that 5-3.

 

Not to mention those two passed it back and forth, slooooowly too....

[Iron Crotch]

Some really nice posts this AM over the last two pages. Hard to disagree with any of it.

 

I'm starting to think that if Pommer and Timmy are so great defensively, but cannot generate any offense 5-on-5, why not pair them with a guy like Grier (although he and Pommer usually play RW) or Hecht (should he return) and use that line as a defensive stopping line against the top Philly line? Vanek just isn't a sound defensive player so it doesn't make sense to put him with Pommer and Timmy who don't seem to help him offensively. I favor Vanek with Drew and (?fill in the blank?)...

[Weave]

Some really nice posts this AM over the last two pages. Hard to disagree with any of it.

 

I'm starting to think that if Pommer and Timmy are so great defensively, but cannot generate any offense 5-on-5, why not pair them with a guy like Grier (although he and Pommer usually play RW) or Hecht (should he return) and use that line as a defensive stopping line against the top Philly line? Vanek just isn't a sound defensive player so it doesn't make sense to put him with Pommer and Timmy who don't seem to help him offensively. I favor Vanek with Drew and (?fill in the blank?)...

 

There is noone else to center for Vanek. That is part of the problem. And that probably won't change until the offseason.

 

In an ideal situation I would have Pommer Hecht and Connolly as a checking line too. The downside is, that would be one hella expensive checking line.

[darksabre]

Some really nice posts this AM over the last two pages. Hard to disagree with any of it.

 

I'm starting to think that if Pommer and Timmy are so great defensively, but cannot generate any offense 5-on-5, why not pair them with a guy like Grier (although he and Pommer usually play RW) or Hecht (should he return) and use that line as a defensive stopping line against the top Philly line? Vanek just isn't a sound defensive player so it doesn't make sense to put him with Pommer and Timmy who don't seem to help him offensively. I favor Vanek with Drew and (?fill in the blank?)...

 

and Ennis.

[Patty16]

Some really nice posts this AM over the last two pages. Hard to disagree with any of it.

 

I'm starting to think that if Pommer and Timmy are so great defensively, but cannot generate any offense 5-on-5, why not pair them with a guy like Grier (although he and Pommer usually play RW) or Hecht (should he return) and use that line as a defensive stopping line against the top Philly line? Vanek just isn't a sound defensive player so it doesn't make sense to put him with Pommer and Timmy who don't seem to help him offensively. I favor Vanek with Drew and (?fill in the blank?)...

 

Good idea.

 

They are really struggling to find productive lines right now. Starting to look too much like Boston last year.

[Robviously]

2) Vanek was invisible - no goals, fine, but he was nowhere to be seen except on the ice when goals were scored against.

He was in front of the net screening the goalie on Stafford's goal. That doesn't show up on the stat sheet but he's a big reason we scored there.

[darksabre]

After sleeping on it, I think one of my major criticisms from this game and from Sunday is the lack of team defense being played. Philly's forwards are making us look silly defensively for several reasons:

 

-Our forwards aren't maintaining offensive zone possession.

-Our defense is pinching too hard and jumping in on plays, which is forcing our offense to try and cover the Philly break out when the Sabres inevitably cough it up.

-Our forwards aren't backchecking hard enough because they're tired from covering the D or from getting run around in the Philly zone.

-Our forwards aren't supporting the defense on breakouts, which is keeping our defense running from the forecheck in our own end, leading to turnovers and slow outlet rushes.

 

So how does Buffalo solve our defensive lapses but also score enough to win?

 

Easy: Play the trap.

 

Sure, it's boring hockey. But against a team with offensive talent like Philly, we need to lock down our zone so that all Miller has to do is try not to let in more than one goal. Most of the goals that have come against Miller have been due to our defense breaking down, so if we can limit the Flyers offensive chances, it will wear them down enough that we can generate turnovers and a few high quality rushes. Odd man rushes are how the Sabres will beat Boucher and the Flyer D, and the only way to generate those is by playing a grind-it-out defensive game that forces the Flyers defense to drop in lower to try and maintain offensive zone pressure.

 

Winning this series all comes down to helping Miller prevent one more goal than Boucher/Bobs/Leighton/the equipment manager. Neutralize Philly's offense, keep Boucher cold, and generate just enough high percentage scoring chances to win.

[Robviously]

Just to simplify things: the difference in this series so far is that they have Danny Briere and we don't.

 

July 1, 2007 continues to pay dividends.

[darksabre]

Just to simplify things: the difference in this series so far is that they have Danny Briere and we don't.

 

July 1, 2007 continues to pay dividends.

 

That's really not accurate. They have Briere, Carter, van Riemsdyk, Richards, Giroux, Hartnell and Versteeg, who all VASTLY outperformed the Sabres offense this year. The Flyers have 4 players that have over 60 points this season. The only player Buffalo has that tops 60 is Thomas Vanek. Pominville and Stafford barely broke 50, and the other player in our top four is Brad Boyes with 55, most of which came for St. Louis. Naturally you have to give Stafford some credit since he only played 62 regular season games. But the point remains unchanged.

 

We aren't just missing Danny Briere. We're also missing Tim Connolly, Derek Roy, J.P. Dumont, Ales Kotalik, Chris Drury, Max Afinogenov and Brian Campbell. Many of whom brought crucial points to this team after the lockout. Whether we lost them due to money or due to drop offs in talent, they have yet to be replaced by players like Ennis, Gerbe, Gragnani, Sekera, Myers, and Mancari. The first round of the playoffs isn't exactly the time you want to be leaning on first and second year players for crucial point production. What other team does that and succeeds?

[Assquatch]

And 1980, 1985, 1987, and 1997. Their goaltending hit a wall in 1985.

 

November 10th-ish?

[Buffalo Wings]

So how does Buffalo solve our defensive lapses but also score enough to win?

 

Easy: Play the trap.

 

Sure, it's boring hockey. But against a team with offensive talent like Philly, we need to lock down our zone so that all Miller has to do is try not to let in more than one goal. Most of the goals that have come against Miller have been due to our defense breaking down, so if we can limit the Flyers offensive chances, it will wear them down enough that we can generate turnovers and a few high quality rushes. Odd man rushes are how the Sabres will beat Boucher and the Flyer D, and the only way to generate those is by playing a grind-it-out defensive game that forces the Flyers defense to drop in lower to try and maintain offensive zone pressure.

 

Sounds good, so why haven't they done it yet? I do agree the defense was terrible in Games 2-3 (not like there was a heroic performance in Game 1, but at least they didn't give up as many odd-man rushes or leave Miller on an island).

 

I see tomorrow as a must-win and they need to tighten up the D in order to do it.

[BuffalOhio]

The Sabres have been using that set play to great effect all series, Butler fanned on his pass to bank it off the boards and out the other side, it has worked great for them on a great many Penalty kills in this series. Maybe they have been using it to much.

 

He fanned because Hartnell hooked his bottom hand. NO CALL. Should he have been stronger on his stick? Yes. Still can't believe that wasn't called.

 

 

Butler said a play was on and forwards were breaking for the far side. he took the blame.

Rightly so. Good man.

 

He's a good man, and going to get even better. Glad to see him having his breakout season, even if that particular breakout didn't work.

 

 

Hope is starting to fade.

 

Briere continues to be significantly better than any forward on the Sabres.

 

 

Makes me sick. Giroux is pretty special, too.

 

 

You're right about his PK abilities, the problem with him though is that he's supposed to be our #1 or #2 center. He's being paid as such, and more importantly and probably the most frustrating part, Ruff keeps playing him as such. Much the same as Pominville.

 

The way things are now, we have tied up 9.8 mill. in two PK specialists :blink:

 

I kept banging my head against he wall seeing #19 and #29 out there repeatedly in the 3rd and waste away that 5 on 3 as well.

 

Who the f else are we supposed to play at number 1 center right now? There's nobody else available to us!

[nobody]

Why are we even discussing the game? It was lost as soon as the anthem singer was announced. WTF?

 

 

It is very disrespectful of all those fans who kept doing all those catcalls and whatever else they were yelling during the anthems. Not the singer who cost the game - it was those fans.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Pommers super slow windup negates him taking a one timer from the point. D just gets in front. I hate his play more every playoff game. He is the epitome of what troubles this team. He is a soft player who gets points during the season but needs midol when the playoffs start and disappears. He avoids contact and cant seem to skate with the increased tempo.

 

Thats being said, Gragnani, who didnt even play in the regular season is leading the team in scoring right now.

 

Gragnani is the only Sabres D-man who looks comfortable out there in his own skin. I never really watched him play, but the game doesn't seem too big for him. Interesting.

[Robviously]

That's really not accurate. They have Briere, Carter, van Riemsdyk, Richards, Giroux, Hartnell and Versteeg, who all VASTLY outperformed the Sabres offense this year. The Flyers have 4 players that have over 60 points this season. The only player Buffalo has that tops 60 is Thomas Vanek. Pominville and Stafford barely broke 50, and the other player in our top four is Brad Boyes with 55, most of which came for St. Louis. Naturally you have to give Stafford some credit since he only played 62 regular season games. But the point remains unchanged.

 

We aren't just missing Danny Briere. We're also missing Tim Connolly, Derek Roy, J.P. Dumont, Ales Kotalik, Chris Drury, Max Afinogenov and Brian Campbell. Many of whom brought crucial points to this team after the lockout. Whether we lost them due to money or due to drop offs in talent, they have yet to be replaced by players like Ennis, Gerbe, Gragnani, Sekera, Myers, and Mancari. The first round of the playoffs isn't exactly the time you want to be leaning on first and second year players for crucial point production. What other team does that and succeeds?

We've effectively lost two one-goal games where Briere scored. If you magically plucked him off their roster and put him on our roster, it's not hard to imagine the Sabres winning one or both games.

[...]

Gragnani is the only Sabres D-man who looks comfortable out there in his own skin. I never really watched him play, but the game doesn't seem too big for him. Interesting.

 

 

Right - sort of like, but more cool than, Enroth. Which is why it would be interesting to see Enroth in net - not that I think he'd be all that much better than Miller (or not that I think Miller has lost these last two games by himself) - but I wonder if having a naturally calm person in net, along with MAG, and along with the elder-cool-cat Grier, would help the rest of the team with its nerves.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

We've effectively lost two one-goal games where Briere scored. If you magically plucked him off their roster and put him on our roster, it's not hard to imagine the Sabres winning one or both games.

 

Not really....because they would have just gone out and filled the roster with another $7 million of quality.

[Iron Crotch]

Gragnani is the only Sabres D-man who looks comfortable out there in his own skin. I never really watched him play, but the game doesn't seem too big for him. Interesting.

 

Yeah, I thought he looked very calm on the puck and was very smooth in his receiving and delivering of passes. He had a couple of defensive mistakes, but given his lack of experience that is excusable. He is our leading playoff scorer and was our only + player that game. It has only been a few games, but I think the kid is really showing a lot.

[Eleven]

November 10th-ish?

 

Right around then.

[nfreeman]

Just to simplify things: the difference in this series so far is that they have Danny Briere and we don't.

 

July 1, 2007 continues to pay dividends.

That's really not accurate. They have Briere, Carter, van Riemsdyk, Richards, Giroux, Hartnell and Versteeg, who all VASTLY outperformed the Sabres offense this year. The Flyers have 4 players that have over 60 points this season. The only player Buffalo has that tops 60 is Thomas Vanek. Pominville and Stafford barely broke 50, and the other player in our top four is Brad Boyes with 55, most of which came for St. Louis. Naturally you have to give Stafford some credit since he only played 62 regular season games. But the point remains unchanged.

 

We aren't just missing Danny Briere. We're also missing Tim Connolly, Derek Roy, J.P. Dumont, Ales Kotalik, Chris Drury, Max Afinogenov and Brian Campbell. Many of whom brought crucial points to this team after the lockout. Whether we lost them due to money or due to drop offs in talent, they have yet to be replaced by players like Ennis, Gerbe, Gragnani, Sekera, Myers, and Mancari. The first round of the playoffs isn't exactly the time you want to be leaning on first and second year players for crucial point production. What other team does that and succeeds?

We've effectively lost two one-goal games where Briere scored. If you magically plucked him off their roster and put him on our roster, it's not hard to imagine the Sabres winning one or both games.

You're both right. The Flyers' forwards are significantly better than the Sabres'. However, the games have been close enough so that moving Briere from Philly onto the Sabres probably would make this a 2-1 series lead for the Sabres, if not 3-0.

 

Some guys, like Briere, rise to the occasion in the playoffs, while others, like pretty much every forward the Sabres have other than Gaustad and Gerbe, are content to let the game get away from them and seek shelter in excuses.

 

I'll say it again: at least 3, and preferably more, out of TC, Pommer, Vanek, Roy, Ennis, Hecht, Boyes and Stafford should be sent away this summer. They aren't good enough to win in the playoffs.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

I'll say it again: at least 3, and preferably more, out of TC, Pommer, Vanek, Roy, Ennis, Hecht, Boyes and Stafford should be sent away this summer at last year's trading deadline along with Montador so we would have been sitting on an extra 1st, 3 seconds, 2 thirds, and $15 million in cap space this summer. They aren't good enough to win in the playoffs.

[Weave]

nfreeman, on 19 April 2011 - 12:14 PM, said:

 

I'll say it again: at least 3, and preferably more, out of TC, Pommer, Vanek, Roy, Ennis, Hecht, Boyes and Stafford should be sent away this summer at last year's trading deadline along with Montador so we would have been sitting on an extra 1st, 3 seconds, 2 thirds, and $15 million in cap space this summer. They aren't good enough to win in the playoffs.

 

:wallbash:

[apuszczalowski]

But we got Brad Boyes at the deadline! Thats all that was needed, another quality pickup by Regier at the deadline just like Bernier, Torres, Moore.......... They come in, the Front Office hypes them up, they have a couple good games in tehir first couple with teh Sabres, then they disapear

 

 

 

BTW, Did anyone else get their 97 Rock "No Fly(er) Zone" sign confiscated last night on the way in? i saw people with WGR ones inside, but the guy at the ticket taker grabbed mine out of my hand and said they were not allowed in the arena and he was confiscating them. Kinda pissed me off a little, along with teh fact that they don't go with anything special for this game like a white out, they go back to the free white Pom-Pom thing (the blue and gold ones were much better if they weren't going to do a white out) and No Doug Allen. I remember after the lockout they atleast gave out a free t-shirt with the Pom-Pom for the first home playoff game. I thought TP had some money?