SwampD Posted April 13, 2011 Report Posted April 13, 2011 A friend of mine is a STH for the Devils and he sent me this picture after the last game of the year. Over a thousand Nordiques fans (47 buses full) came to the game and security let them stand in the aisles of the lower bowl during the third period. They did it to bring attention to the league that there are still fans there and they still want a team. I thought it was a pretty cool story. Here is some more about it.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted April 13, 2011 Report Posted April 13, 2011 This league needs to relocate teams to Canada in order to survive. Winnepeg, Quebec, Hamilton, maybe even 2 in Toronto......they need to get a move on it or else values will start to plummet soon. 10 years ago the US$ was $1.65 Canadian. Now it's 95 cents. It probably will see 80 cents by the end of next year if not sooner.
FogBat Posted April 13, 2011 Report Posted April 13, 2011 This league needs to relocate teams to Canada in order to survive. Winnepeg, Quebec, Hamilton, maybe even 2 in Toronto......they need to get a move on it or else values will start to plummet soon. 10 years ago the US$ was $1.65 Canadian. Now it's 95 cents. It probably will see 80 cents by the end of next year if not sooner. With the exception bolded, I'm cool with the rest of it. I just don't think it's a good idea to encourage Jim Balsillie to push for a team in Hamilton yet again.
Two or less Posted April 13, 2011 Report Posted April 13, 2011 This league needs to relocate teams to Canada in order to survive. Winnepeg, Quebec, Hamilton, maybe even 2 in Toronto......they need to get a move on it or else values will start to plummet soon. 10 years ago the US$ was $1.65 Canadian. Now it's 95 cents. It probably will see 80 cents by the end of next year if not sooner. Far from the truth. I also would want to see teams in Winnepeg and Quebec, as it makes the league better, but, it doesn't NEED them. NHL may be on the verge of a $200 million/per season deal from ESPN for tv rights.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted April 13, 2011 Report Posted April 13, 2011 Far from the truth. I also would want to see teams in Winnepeg and Quebec, as it makes the league better, but, it doesn't NEED them. NHL may be on the verge of a $200 million/per season deal from ESPN for tv rights. An extra $4 million per team? That should cover the salary cap increase. Considering ESPN paid $120 million 12 years ago when the internet was in a relative infancy and dishes were 8' plus...... Don't worry. The good thing about Pegula is that he will be able to absorb the blow of teams in Ontario. The Hamilton Panthers has a nice ring to it.
Robviously Posted April 13, 2011 Report Posted April 13, 2011 Far from the truth. I also would want to see teams in Winnepeg and Quebec, as it makes the league better, but, it doesn't NEED them. NHL may be on the verge of a $200 million/per season deal from ESPN for tv rights. It doesn't need Canadian cities to survive, but I'd prefer it. When I was a kid I always thought it was cool that the NHL had teams in cities that I didn't hear about in other sports. (Places like Winnepeg and Quebec sound really exotic to a kid.) Plus I think the league benefits from having cities that are crazy for hockey.
Two or less Posted April 13, 2011 Report Posted April 13, 2011 An extra $4 million per team? That should cover the salary cap increase. Considering ESPN paid $120 million 12 years ago when the internet was in a relative infancy and dishes were 8' plus...... Don't worry. The good thing about Pegula is that he will be able to absorb the blow of teams in Ontario. The Hamilton Panthers has a nice ring to it. It doesn't sound like a lot but it is. But, you're also not counting a possible 2nd TV contract with turner or versus and NBC winter classic rights. I still don't truly believe markets such as Tampa, Nashville, Phoenix, Carolina the "non traditional" markets are failures. I think it's too early to tell. IMO, to really see a fail you have to wait until the fanbase actually grows up with the team. Some of these teams are too young, that many didn't like hockey growing up, or knew much about it, and adopted the team because its in their backyard. When kids who grew up watching those teams, have kids and their kids grow up, then, we will be able to see if a team is starting to get real interest in that region. Like i said, i would want hockey back to Quebec, and Winnipeg, but, adding a second in Toronto, one in Hamilton, because of a fear the league can't survive without them, is a very flawed statement and would be terrible for the league. Besides Winnipeg and Quebec, if the NHL does relocate, i'd like to see another attempt in Hartford, but also possibly Seattle or Houston get teams.
Sabre Dance Posted April 13, 2011 Report Posted April 13, 2011 It doesn't sound like a lot but it is. But, you're also not counting a possible 2nd TV contract with turner or versus and NBC winter classic rights. I still don't truly believe markets such as Tampa, Nashville, Phoenix, Carolina the "non traditional" markets are failures. I think it's too early to tell. IMO, to really see a fail you have to wait until the fanbase actually grows up with the team. Some of these teams are too young, that many didn't like hockey growing up, or knew much about it, and adopted the team because its in their backyard. When kids who grew up watching those teams, have kids and their kids grow up, then, we will be able to see if a team is starting to get real interest in that region. Like i said, i would want hockey back to Quebec, and Winnipeg, but, adding a second in Toronto, one in Hamilton, because of a fear the league can't survive without them, is a very flawed statement and would be terrible for the league. Besides Winnipeg and Quebec, if the NHL does relocate, i'd like to see another attempt in Hartford, but also possibly Seattle or Houston get teams. Hmm.. I don't think hockey in Phoenix was ever a good idea, Atlanta failed as an NHL city once already and two teams in Florida is at least one too many. (I have severe doubts about Carolina as well). We certainly don't need to add any more teams to the NHL (the talent pool is pretty depleted as it is). Send the Coyotes back to Winnepeg, the Thrashers to Quebec and the Panthers to either Hamilton or Seattle. If the league does get a handsome TV contract, 30 teams might be OK. Otherwise, drop two teams (or let them merge with weaker teams, a la the Cleveland Barons/Minnestoa North Stars deal). 28 teams is still a good number, and if they are all in fairly strong markets, the suits in the NHL front office should be very happy. Me, too.... :clapping:
Weave Posted April 13, 2011 Report Posted April 13, 2011 I agree with Paul Hamilton's take on it. Bad hockey doesn't sell anywhere but in Toronto. Good hockey teams will fill rinks in nearly every city. Teams like Florida have been bad for so long that only in Toronto would they still have a reasonably full arena. Put the Panthers in Winnipeg and if they are still a lousy team 6 years from now they will struggle to put butts in the seats too. Having said that, I'd like to see hockey return to Winnipeg and Quebec City, but it is probably as much sentimental in my case as anything.
Knightrider Posted April 13, 2011 Report Posted April 13, 2011 This league needs to relocate teams to Canada in order to survive. Winnepeg, Quebec, Hamilton, maybe even 2 in Toronto......they need to get a move on it or else values will start to plummet soon. 10 years ago the US$ was $1.65 Canadian. Now it's 95 cents. It probably will see 80 cents by the end of next year if not sooner. Hamilton and Toronto? That sounds like a saturated market. That will impact ticket Leaf ticket sales to the point that they might have to lower prices. That doesn't seem very likely. If Winnepeg and Quebec City have the arenas, though, I think they are no brainers. Seattle, Kansas City, and/or Portland make a lot of sense as well, especially if it is possible to get Columbus into the Eastern Conference.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted April 13, 2011 Report Posted April 13, 2011 Hamilton and Toronto? That sounds like a saturated market. That will impact ticket Leaf ticket sales to the point that they might have to lower prices. That doesn't seem very likely. If Winnepeg and Quebec City have the arenas, though, I think they are no brainers. Seattle, Kansas City, and/or Portland make a lot of sense as well, especially if it is possible to get Columbus into the Eastern Conference. Canadian teams pay salaries in US dollars but collect Canadian revenue. Not only that, but franchise values drop as the value of the US dollar drop. It's a synergy where it becomes not only cheaper for a Canadian entity to buy a team in the US and move it, but their profit margins skyrocket as well. Moon probably has a good take. Contract down to 26-28 teams, move a few more to Canada or border cities, and things will have a better chance. Now this of course all has to hinge on continued strength of Canada over US $. Considering there are going to be some interesting speeches coming from US officials over the next month, describing in detail to the public what would happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised, I think banking on Canada is a good bet.
LGR4GM Posted April 13, 2011 Report Posted April 13, 2011 Canadian teams pay salaries in US dollars but collect Canadian revenue. Not only that, but franchise values drop as the value of the US dollar drop. It's a synergy where it becomes not only cheaper for a Canadian entity to buy a team in the US and move it, but their profit margins skyrocket as well. Moon probably has a good take. Contract down to 26-28 teams, move a few more to Canada or border cities, and things will have a better chance. Now this of course all has to hinge on continued strength of Canada over US $. Considering there are going to be some interesting speeches coming from US officials over the next month, describing in detail to the public what would happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised, I think banking on Canada is a good bet. Good points. I like the idea of having 28 teams (wouldnt go lower for now) and having phoenix move to quebec or winnipeg would be good. Isnt winnipeg selling out AHL games and building a news 20k seat 400mil$ arena? Id move a team there as an owner just to make some money let alone because you actually have fans who wanna see your product
Robviously Posted April 13, 2011 Report Posted April 13, 2011 Hamilton and Toronto? That sounds like a saturated market. That will impact ticket Leaf ticket sales to the point that they might have to lower prices. That doesn't seem very likely. If Winnepeg and Quebec City have the arenas, though, I think they are no brainers. Seattle, Kansas City, and/or Portland make a lot of sense as well, especially if it is possible to get Columbus into the Eastern Conference. Not sure about Seattle. It's a huge market with a lot of money, but Key Arena is old and wasn't nice enough to keep the Sonics in town. There's also a ton of sports going on here already with the Seahawks, Mariners, and Seattle Sounders MLS team. (Yes, this is the one American city that is really into pro soccer. The season lasts from February to October and the games all sell out.) Then you have UW Huskies football and basketball in North Seattle. The argument FOR it is that you'd have an instant rivalry with Vancouver 90 minutes north of here (which would be Seattle's best rivalry in pro sports) and, if they were smart, the Seattle Thunderbirds uniforms would look awesome in the NHL.
PromoTheRobot Posted April 13, 2011 Report Posted April 13, 2011 The NHL could use a team in the Northwest; Portland or Seattle. (Anyone remember Paul Allen angling to buy and move the Sabres to Seattle when Rigas went down?) PTR
nobody Posted April 13, 2011 Report Posted April 13, 2011 I agree with Paul Hamilton's take on it. Bad hockey doesn't sell anywhere but in Toronto. Good hockey teams will fill rinks in nearly every city. Teams like Florida have been bad for so long that only in Toronto would they still have a reasonably full arena. Put the Panthers in Winnipeg and if they are still a lousy team 6 years from now they will struggle to put butts in the seats too. Having said that, I'd like to see hockey return to Winnipeg and Quebec City, but it is probably as much sentimental in my case as anything. Part of the reason the Jets left in the first place was from lack of support. Bad economy and bad owner as well of course. I can't imagine at this stage that the Canadian economy will tank as bad anytime soon as it is based to a large amount on oil. As long as China keeps industrializing the demand for oil will stay large.
IKnowPhysics Posted April 13, 2011 Report Posted April 13, 2011 I agree with Paul Hamilton's take on it. Bad hockey doesn't sell anywhere but in Toronto. Good hockey teams will fill rinks in nearly every city. That's a pretty broad stroke, and it's one that I don't agree with, not only because it doesn't apply to all situations, but especially because it doesn't apply to the situations of note that usually arise when talking about this subject. Canes win the cup, and they're still close to a playoff team, but they can't fill their stadium. (87.5% home attendance) St Louis sold out and had a similar-but-worse record than the Canes. (100% home attendance) Phoenix is playing playoff hockey, and they're in the basement of attendance with the Islanders. (71.3% home attendance) Edmonton is playing the worst hockey, and they've sold out. (100% home attendance) Fact: five of the six Canadian teams have sold out this season (regardless of record), with the exception of Ottawa, who had their worst season in a long damn time, but they still had 96% home attendance. Any team is not going to be a good team 100% of the time. Hell, on blunt, raw average, you're only going to be in the top third of the league one third of the time. Every NHL team needs to be able to maintain themselves financially even if they don't win. This can happen in northern hockey-driven markets. This isn't happening in some southern hockey-empty markets.
Weave Posted April 13, 2011 Report Posted April 13, 2011 That's a pretty broad stroke, and it's one that I don't agree with, not only because it doesn't apply to all situations, but especially because it doesn't apply to the situations of note that usually arise when talking about this subject. Canes win the cup, and they're still close to a playoff team, but they can't fill their stadium. (87.5% home attendance) St Louis sold out and had a similar-but-worse record than the Canes. (100% home attendance) Phoenix is playing playoff hockey, and they're in the basement of attendance with the Islanders. (71.3% home attendance) Edmonton is playing the worst hockey, and they've sold out. (100% home attendance) Fact: five of the six Canadian teams have sold out this season (regardless of record), with the exception of Ottawa, who had their worst season in a long damn time, but they still had 96% home attendance. Any team is not going to be a good team 100% of the time. Hell, on blunt, raw average, you're only going to be in the top third of the league one third of the time. Every NHL team needs to be able to maintain themselves financially even if they don't win. This can happen in northern hockey-driven markets. This isn't happening in some southern hockey-empty markets. In my earlier post I said "good teams will fill rinks" and that was probably a poor choice of words. Hamilton's point wasn't that all good teams will sell out, it is that they will be supported well enough by the fans to keep the team healthy and viable. The premise is that good teams are providing good entertainment value. IMO 87.5% attendance (Canes) fits in the mold of well supported. And of course, there will always be exceptions. It was stated as a rule of thumb, not scientific law. Phoenix probably just isn't a hockey town, and they are an exception to the "good teams get supported" rule of thumb. And Edmonton folks are just hockey crazy.
DR HOLLIDAY Posted April 13, 2011 Report Posted April 13, 2011 This league needs to relocate teams to Canada in order to survive. Winnepeg, Quebec, Hamilton, maybe even 2 in Toronto...... Well said...........The NHL needs teams in places where people love hockey.......... :beer:
IKnowPhysics Posted April 13, 2011 Report Posted April 13, 2011 Phoenix probably just isn't a hockey town, and they are an exception to the "good teams get supported" rule of thumb. And Edmonton Winnipeg folks are just hockey crazy. Problem solved?
Weave Posted April 13, 2011 Report Posted April 13, 2011 Problem solved? Honestly? I don't know. One of the reasons the Jets ended up calling home in the desert was because of poor attendance. The weak Canadian dollar didn't help, but that team wasn't getting fan support either. If Winnipeg gets its' franchise back it will be the smallest market in the league (at least I think that's right). It will be at a disadvantage right from the start.
Cereal Posted April 14, 2011 Report Posted April 14, 2011 Every NHL team needs to be able to maintain themselves financially even if they don't win. This can happen in northern hockey-driven markets. This isn't happening in some southern hockey-empty markets. ^ Well summarized
bunomatic Posted April 14, 2011 Report Posted April 14, 2011 Honestly? I don't know. One of the reasons the Jets ended up calling home in the desert was because of poor attendance. The weak Canadian dollar didn't help, but that team wasn't getting fan support either. If Winnipeg gets its' franchise back it will be the smallest market in the league (at least I think that's right). It will be at a disadvantage right from the start. With the richest owner in Thompson and the 4th busiest rink in North America. Its not only about hockey in that rink its about entertainment.
DR HOLLIDAY Posted April 14, 2011 Report Posted April 14, 2011 Honestly? I don't know. One of the reasons the Jets ended up calling home in the desert was because of poor attendance. The weak Canadian dollar didn't help, but that team wasn't getting fan support either. If Winnipeg gets its' franchise back it will be the smallest market in the league (at least I think that's right). It will be at a disadvantage right from the start. Economically Manitoba has been doing very well for over the past 10 years, throw in the high Canadian dollar and with a new arena and solid ownership they will do well.
OverPowerYou Posted April 14, 2011 Report Posted April 14, 2011 The Carolina Whalercanes should move back to Hartford
X. Benedict Posted April 14, 2011 Report Posted April 14, 2011 The Carolina Whalercanes should move back to Hartford I think they should move to Wheeling. Then they can be the West Virginiolina Whalermountiancanes.
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